Conference 7.286::golf

    
    There's probably 10 people answering this one as I type. The handicap
    hole are set up in order of diificulty. For each course these differ
    according to distance, hazards, etc.... 
    If you have a let's say 5 handicap, you would get your stokes on the 
    first five stroke holes in order. If you were a 5 playing a 6 you would
    give one stroke on the first handicap hole. 
    If you were a 19 handicap, you would get 1 stroke for each hole plus
    one more on the number one stroke hole.
    You will also probably notice that the odd numbers are on the front and
    the even numbers on the back.
    Hope I didn't confuse you even more.
    
    Joe
    
    

    
    A different question on handicaps.
    
    I've never had an "official" handicap before, but I intend to get
    one this year.  
    
    My uestion is this.  If you've never had a handicap before, do you
    assume the maximum handicap of 36, when "washing" your score cards
    before turning them in.
    
    Shane
    

    Shane,
      I'm not sure what you mean by "washing" your scorecard before
    turning it in but, when you are establishing a handicap, you
    turn in yur total score for the round and after a certain number
    of scores are posted, the handicap committee will asign you an
    index based on those scores.
    
    Another small point for the original note, Odd-number or even-number
    handicap has nothing to do with where the holes are located. On one
    course I play, the first five holes are rated 5,3,4,1,2 . As you might
    guess, the front nine is very tough.
    
    Mad Hacker

    
    Shane,
    
    	That's seems like a safe assumption.  You're allowed to take a
    triple for every handicap stroke over 18.  If you're going to make lots
    of triples, then you handicap will be a big number no matter how you
    score it.
    
    
    						KO
    
    ps  Does Mike like his clubs?

    
    KO,
    
    Well I hope I don't make too many triples!  I went out for the first
    time on Sunday, (I had to wait because my back is screwed up), and
    I started with 3 bogies, and a par.
    
    I played with Mike on Sunday, and he likes the 3 & 5 woods real well.
    He's having a bit of trouble getting used to the driver, but I think
    it has more to do with lack of swings, then the club.  
    
    Shane
    
    P.S.
    
    I even managed to hit my 4 iron well on Sunday! :-)

RE: .3

I've never heard of such a thing. On every scorecard I've seen, the 
odd handicap holes are on the front 9 and the even the back. As I 
understand it, it's to spread the stroke holes evenly across both 
nines, for those nine-hole matches or 18-hole matches begun on the 
back nine. Obviously, you could figure out another way of doing that
if the course didn't handicap front and back nine evenly, but it saves 
you the bother.

    Shane:
    
    When establishing a handicap there is no adjustment or "washing"
    allowed.  The raw score is posted.  Once a handicap is established, you
    will then adjust each score by the number of double or triple bogies
    allowed.  This keeps handicaps from being artificially high because of
    a few bad holes.
    
    A handicap is nothing more than a representation of your average potential
    score.  This means that only half of the time you will shoot to your
    handicap.  Handicaps are usually calculated as:
    
      The best 10 differentials from your last 20 rounds.  The word
    differential is important, because the handicap reflects the difference
    between your score and the course rating (not par).  Thus both the
    slope and course rating are factored in.  
    
    A handicap of fifteen means that you should shoot 15 higher than the
    course  rating (not par).  The course rating is what a scratch golfer
    should score on the course.  A course rated 69.0 says a round of 69 for
    the scratch golfer and a round of 84 for the 15 handicapper are
    consider even.   
    
    Depending on the course difficulty, now reflected as
    slope, a 15 handicapper may be allowed more than 15 strokes.  Each
    course has a conversion chart in the pro shop area.  Just ask.  This
    new system was put in place to more accurately reflect the effect
    difficult courses have on handicaps.  At one time, someone with a
    handicap at a very tough course (private often)had the advantage over
    the handicap player from the easy course (public most often).  This
    rift caused many an argument over "sandibagging".  Thus the slope
    system rerated courses and took into account greens, terrain, numbers
    of bunkers and water.  However, the slope system did not require the
    course to rerate each hole.
    
    Since your best 10 of twenty scores counts, you will therefore be shooting
    your handicap half of the time.  In fact, a low score hurts 
    (or helps..depending on your perspective) more because it pushes out the
     highest of your best ten scores and will be apart of your handicap 
    calculation for the next 20 rounds.  This is why a handicap reflects your
     potential and not necessarily what your average or most recent rounds show.
    
    The uses of handicaps when playing someone else reflect one players
    potential for parring a hole based on its difficulty.  This difficulty
    per hole is usually judged based on the length of the hole.  Most
    courses have the par 5's and the long par 4's rated highest or toughest
    becaus ethe lower handicap players are more likely to reach these
    greens in regulation.  
    
    Handicaps work for both match and medal(stroke) play.  They also work
    for skins, scrambles, best balls and all sorts of games.  Many clubs
    even have a "tournament handicap" to keep people from manicuring their
    handicaps and blowing people away in tournaments.  Most public
    associations such as USGA have the big tournies played a "low handicap
    for the last 12 months" to prevent manicuring just before the
    tournament.
    
    As a +1 club champ once told me "all that means is that halaf of the
    time I shoot worse than par".  Pobrecito (poor baby)
    
    
    Hope that helps Shane.  From a guy who went from 19 to 9 in one year,
    handicaps can be a vicious enemy to good games and fun golf.  They set
    that measurement of every round that makes it hard to achieve.  But
    they do serve as a measure of your mastery of certain courses or shots.
    And they allow different skill levels to compete (both at negotiating
    the strokes) and once you have teed it up.
    
    SoCalDandy

    
    re: -1
    
    Thanks your info did help. 
    
    Shane
    

    I happen to have scorecards from Colorado, Calif, Florida, Arizona and
    Texas here in the desk. 22 cards in all and 11 have the even handicap
    numbers on the front, 9 have the odd numbers and 2 are mixed. So it
    doesn't seem to be completely consistent.
    

    I'm still slightly confused about how to score with handicaps.
    
    Is this how it works?
    After I play out a certain hole, I then subtract one stroke from
    my score on that hole if my personal handicap is greater than or
    equal to the rated handicap of that hole?
    
    -George

    So, according to your theory, an architect building a course
    knows how to lay out each hole so that when the course is rated
    all the odd holes are on the front and the evens on the back ?
      That is a pretty nifty bit of design work, being able to assign
    handicap values to a hole that has never been played !!
    
      Mad Hacker

    RE: .10
    
    Yes that's correct.  This will give you your 'net score' for the hole.
    If of course your handicap is over 18, then you get TWO (2) strokes 
    on the some holes.  As an example, if your handicap is 20, you'll get 
    2 strokes on handicap holes 1 & 2.
    
    
    					KO

    RE:10 & 12
    
    The real use of the handicaps is at the end of a round.  Your total
    score is reduced by your handicap to establish your net for the round.
    When you use handicaps for match play or skins you start with the
    #1 handicap hole and allot the strokes. A 15 handicap would get one
    stroke on the toughest 15 holes.  Often you just play the differetnial
    between the players, ie. a 7,9,15,19 play together.  The 19 would get
    12 strokes and the 7 would play scratch.
    
    When playing partner best ball, the full handicaps are put on the card
    by the handicap of the holes.  In the case cited above, the seven would
    get a stroke on 7 holes and the 19 would get a stroke on 17 holes and 2
    strokes on the #1 handicap hole.
    
    SCD

In New Zealand and Australia, there are 2 index ratings for each hole. One is 
the stroke index (a difficulty rating), the other is the match index (used only 
in matchplay).

Stroke index is used to calculate PAR and STABLEFORD scores. You get 1 stroke 
for each hole where the rating is <= your handicap, plus 1 more when the 
difference is > 18. For example I play off 21 (was 20 till 3 weeks ago), so I 
get 2 strokes for the holes rated 1 - 3, and 1 for all the rest. This is used 
to calculate a nett score for each hole. On top of that, we are only 
handicapped on a nett bogey at worst, so the rating is used to give an adjusted 
gross for some holes - this is for handicap adjustment only. Stroke index is 
not used in stroke play, where the handicap only comes into play after the 
round to calculate an 18 hole nett score.

Match indices always have the even numbers on one 9, and the odd on the other. 
They are used purely to calculate the holes where the low handicapper in 
matchplay must give a stroke (or strokes where the difference between 
handicaps is > 18) to his/her opponent.

Generally, the stroke index is on the card next to the distance and par rating 
for each hole, the match index is in table form at the bottom of the card.

That's handicap and ratings South Pacific style.

Lindsay

    Re: 14
    
    We could never do this in the U.S.  MAKes to much sense.  Actually we
    have something similar, but the handicap rating is a total for the
    course, not by hole.  Must be fun to play skins, $2 nassau, and stroke
    play all at onetime in the lands down under.
    
    SoCalDandy

RE:
            <<< Note 1232.11 by RAYBOK::COOPER "One-ton Tomato !" >>>
                                -< Yeah, right >-

>    So, according to your theory, an architect building a course
>    knows how to lay out each hole so that when the course is rated
>    all the odd holes are on the front and the evens on the back ?
>      That is a pretty nifty bit of design work, being able to assign
>    handicap values to a hole that has never been played !!
    
>      Mad Hacker

No, that's not the theory. It has nothing to do with the architect's 
intentions. As I understood it (it seems, incorrectly), it was simply 
a matter of convention. So that, even if the hardest hole on the 
course was on the back side, it would be handicapped no lower than 2. 
#1 would always be on the front side.

Stow south (you wouldn't know about that, I realize, but I don't know 
California courses) is a good example. The 16th hole is without 
question the hardest on the course. But its the #2 stroke hole. The 
2nd hole --the hardest on the front -- is the #1 stroke hole.

Actually, I've seen some courses that rate their holes, not by 
difficulty, but by length. It's tough giving away a stroke on a 470 
yard par 5.

Tom

    Re:  Yardage
    
    An article sometime back in Golf Digest explained that most courses
    were rated by yardage and thus most holes the same.  The factor was
    calculated by this group to be something like ... Divide the total
    yardage by 226 yards and then add 40 to the total.  A 6900yard course
    would end up with a 70.5 rating.  The study went on to explain that
    this proved true over a very large percentage of the courses in the
    U.S.  This is why we now have a slope systems that takes into account
    the other factors as well as yardage.
    
    SCD

    RE: .16 et al
    
    It is just a _convention_ to start with the #1 handicap hole on the
    front and alternate.  The USGA does now offer a service, however, to
    take a course's hole-by-hole scores and "officially" rank them
    regardless of location.
    
    Steve
    

	I believe the service referred to in the previous note was discussed
	in a Golf Digest article entitled "ARE YOU GETTING STROKES ON THE
	RIGHT HOLES?", July, 1985.  The USGA will, for a $50 fee (1985), 
	enter the scores and do an analysis.

	The gist of the article, and presummably the analysis, is this:

	Scores of golfers with low handicaps (1-9) and high handicaps (18+) 
	are analyzed by taking the averages and comparing the two groups
	hole-by-hole.  The hole that has the highest differential, that is,
	biggest difference, is the hole where the higher handicap golfer 
	needs a stroke more.  This should be the number 1 handicap hole.  
	Handicap is meant to be an "equalizer", and is given on the hole 
	where it is most needed to "halve" the hole.  All holes are compared 
	in this way.

	The differential is carried out to two or three decimal places.  Some
	holes will have very close differentials, so some additional "rules" 
	help.   First, as has been stated elsewhere, all even numbers are on one
	side, with odd numbers on the other.  This helps spread them out and
	allows them to be used for 9-hole matches.  Next, for holes with
	similar differentials, the preference is to assign the lower handicap
	number to the earlier hole.  That way you're not getting your stroke
	toward the end of the match when you are already down.

	In general, what happens is the par 5's are lowest (largest 
	differential), followed by long par 4's, then par 4's and finally 
	par 3's.  I wrote a program shortly after the article to do this, and
	worked with our club manager to analyze the data.  We took it before
	the handicap committee, and you wouldn't believe the arguments that
	ensued.  We finally compromised, but still had a par three rated #6 and
	a par 5 (the first hole at that) rated # 10 (it was 18).

	Since that time we rebuilt the greeens on holes 1 & 2, so the
	manager asked me to redo the analysis to see if anything changed.  
	Last winter we took it to the handicap committee again (some different 
	members).   They agreed in principle with the article and proceeded to
	make significant changes.  
	
	Now, number 1, a 460 yd par 5 dogleg right with water, sand and a new 
	large green which is almost reachable in two by the lower handicapers, 
	but is more difficult for the higher handicappers, most of which don't
	warm up and often end up in the woods to the right, is handicap #6 after
	being handicap #10 (originally 18).  They just couldn't bring themselves
	to make it handicap #2.

	Also, number 5, a difficult 201 yd par 3 with sand, and small sloping
	left to right green that is difficult for low and high handicappers
	alike, is handicap #16 after being #2 for many years. 

	Here is the analysis.  As you can see, hole 1, 2, and 5 changed 
	significantly.  The handicap committee compromised a little this
	time, making hole 1 handicap 6 and hole 6 handicap 2.


Group A - 359 golfers - Average handicap:   6
Group B - 431 golfers - Average handicap:  22

                    Hdcp 1 - 9             Hdcp 18 + 
                       (359)                (431)           Equalizer  Crnt
 HOLE   PAR        AVER  DIFF HDCP      AVER  DIFF HDCP     DELTA HDCP HDCP

   1    5.00       5.13  0.13  18       6.34  1.34   8       1.22   2   10
   2    4.00       4.26  0.26  16       5.25  1.25  14       0.99   8   18
   3    4.00       4.37  0.37  12       5.42  1.42   4       1.06   4    2
   4    4.00       4.38  0.38   8       5.25  1.25  12       0.87  12   14
   5    3.00       3.70  0.70   2       4.33  1.33  10       0.63  16    6
   6    5.00       5.37  0.37  10       6.42  1.42   4       1.05   6    8
   7    3.00       3.39  0.39   6       4.01  1.01  18       0.62  18   16
   8    4.00       4.33  0.33  14       5.16  1.16  16       0.83  14   12
   9    4.00       4.53  0.53   4       5.46  1.46   2       0.93  10    4

  10    4.00       4.36  0.36  11       5.34  1.34  13       0.98   9    7
  11    5.00       5.42  0.42   9       6.66  1.66   1       1.24   1    1
  12    3.00       3.35  0.35  13       3.90  0.90  17       0.55  17   15
  13    5.00       5.26  0.26  17       6.45  1.45   7       1.18   3   17
  14    3.00       3.54  0.54   3       4.26  1.26  15       0.72  15   11
  15    4.00       4.28  0.28  15       5.35  1.35  11       1.07   7   13
  16    4.00       4.49  0.49   7       5.41  1.41   9       0.92  11    9
  17    4.00       4.50  0.50   5       5.63  1.63   3       1.13   5    3
  18    4.00       4.61  0.61   1       5.46  1.46   5       0.85  13    5

TOTAL  72.00      79.27  7.27          96.10 24.10

    

	Is course slope taken into account when computing handicaps, or
	just rating?

	What exactly is the calculation?  Is it simply the average differential
	of your 10 best scores of your last 20 played?

	What about if you've played less than 20 rounds?

	Thanks,
	Mike

    
    Hi Mike,
    
    I think (someone will correct me if I'm wrong :-))
    the handicap is:
    
    Take you best 10 of the last 20, get the average over the course
    rating and multiply by 96%.
    
    If you have less than 20 I think they use the 10 best, not sure what
    to do if you don't have 10, they may just use what's available.
    
    I don't believe slope is used to figure handicap, just to adjust it
    from course to course.
    
    --Bob
    

The slope and rating of a course is used to determine your USGA handicap 
"index".  Your handicap index is used to determine your handicap at a
particular course.

If you have less than 20 scores then a certain number of scores are used as
set-up in a table - example: 5 - 6 scores, use lowest 1
                             7 - 8 scores, use lowest 2
                             9 - 10 scores, use lowest 3
                             etc.

note: minimum of 5 scores needed for an official handicap.

Also, note 356.4 give more information on exact calculations.

Hope this helps.

    Re:22
    
    Doesn't it depend on if it is a down slope or an upslope?  What is the
    wind direction?  What pound ball are you playing?  Personally, I
    overlap my index since the interlock is uncomfortable. 
    
    Since only the best scores count, why post the bad ones?  Why not use a
    "HACK FACTOR" that adds to the handicap to adjust for the bad rounds? 
    Is there such a thing as a driving range index, since I leave my best
    shots there?  Some may even consider a "CHOKE FACTOR" to apply to those
    who swing with both hands around their throats.  These and many other
    questions can and will be addressed in future notes conversations.
    
    Have a good Holiday.
    
    SCD 

    I could hsve used the "choke factor" this Sunday in the tournament
    I played. I was using the modified "Bernhard Langer" technique where
    you put the shaft of the putter along your neck and grasp it firmly
    with both hands. Then with a quick snap of the neck you send the
    10-pound ball towards the hole. From outside 3 inches any putt is
    an adventure !!
    
      Mad Hacker (who lost by 2 strokes after 4 putting twice from 20 feet)
    
                          

    re: Bad day, a bad #$@# day...(Poetic license, Author Charles Barkley)
    
    Sorry to hear of your collapse.  Proves you are human.  Probably should
    consider using your eight iron on the longer putts.  It was a bad
    weekend for Nor Cal in many athletic endeavors...Cal lost in baseball,
    Stanford lost, must have been a mis alignment of the planets.  
    
    SCD

	These rating and slope numbers influence rather greatly.

	Consider a NH DEC league member who shoots 85 at Passaconaway
	over 2 nine hole rounds.  This is 14 over par, maybe that fits
	right in with where he thinks your handicap should be...

	That weekend he plays with some folks at Amherst, they go off
	the white tees, he shoots 80, 8 over.  Down comes the handicap, right?

	The Passaconaway round would be counted before the Amherst round, it
	actually has a lower differential.

	Passaconaway:	72.2 126	Diff = (85-72.2)(113)/126 = 11.4
	Amherst:	68.2 115	Diff = (80-68.2)(113)/115 = 11.5

	If you only play 9 holes, how do you determine the handicap to
	use ? Do you simply divide your handicap by 2 ? If so, do you
	round up or down in the event of an odd-numbered handicap ?

	Thanks,
	Wayne

    
    what do you do if you only play nine holes, par is 36 on front and
    33 on back, and course rating is 66.  most people just divide
    course rating by 2 when playing nine but that doesn't seem
    fair.
    
    hack nicklaus

    Re: .28
    
    If I remember the USGA specification correct,  you are to combine two
    consecutive nine hole scores to be used for a handicapping. For
    example, if you play 27 holes one day and play 9 next time you turn in
    a score for first 18 as one and third 9 and 9 played next time as
    another.  This is what I remember from few years back and I could be
    wrong.
    
    Regards

Hi All,

A couple of question for any Gurus on the rules;

We are playing a series of friendly Stapleford competitions. Prizes are given
for 1st, 2nd, and front nine, back nine. A player is only able to receive one
prize.

Now the question is, does one nine holes take precedent over the another? The
way the first outing worked out is that depending on the order of awarding
these two prizes different people will receive the prizes.

Also is there an "official" way of adjusting handicaps from Stapleford points
scored. These games are friendly and just for fun, but in order to give every
one a chance we are looking at amending the handicaps depending on the points
scored. Any suggestions?

Rgds, Steve.  


    What is a Stapleford?
    
    rww

Hi there,

Stableford is a scoring system where points are awarded for the net result on 
each hole.

	Net result		Score

	bogie			1
	par			2
	birdie			3
	eagle			4
	albatross		5
	etc

The net result is calculated by taking the gross for the hole, subtracting 
the amount of strokes you get depending on your handicap and the index for 
the hole. Basically, where your handicap is higher than  the holes index, you 
get 1 stroke, or 2 if the difference between your handicap and the index is 
more than 18.

Examples

	index		handicap	- strokes

	1		1-18		1
	1		19-36		2
	10		9		0

So, in my case, playing off 20, if I hole out in 4 on a par 4, that has an 
index of 1, I get 4 points (4 - 2 = 2, net eagle). If I hole out in 6 or more 
on a par 4, where I only get 1 stroke, I score 0.

Thus, a player playing to his/her handicap should score 36 stableford points.	

I'm not sure about the US, but in NZ, we record the gross score for the 
round, and also an adjusted gross, which is what you are handicapped on. The 
adjusted gross is where you reduce the gross for any hole to be a net bogie 
as a maximum. This makes handbraking harder, you can't just hook 5 drives out 
of bounds off the last tee to keep your handicap from dropping.

Have I confused everybody?


Lindsay

On your question of awarding prizes, it's fairly arbitrary really.

I would select the 18 hole prize winners first, then back and front nine, 
eliminating duplicate prize winners as I go.


Lindsay