Conference 7.286::golf

     Walta, you can bend it open to closed, etc. but each time you do so
    you create minute stress points in the shaft. Sooner or later, the
    shaft may break - perhaps before its time. Some extremists even rebore
    'em, but then you have to re-shim, and it's generally a mess. Good idea
    for a topic, though. We seem to have some knowledgeable guys on club
    repair.
    
    --Jack

    What's the best method to clean grips ??
    
    Can the same method be used for Chamois, Leather and Rubber grips ?
    
    Jim
    

     For rubber, put hot water on the grip, sprinkle on some "Comet," and
    brush with a stiff brush. Rinse and towel dry. For leather, use Saddle
    Soap or Lexol and just follow the instructions.
    
    --Jack

    Let me take a crack at these questions.  Walta, you said that the bend
    caused the face to be closed.  Is it a metal driver?  If it's wood,
    then a simple reshaft could fix it.  If it's metal, then it maybe that
    the hosel itself bent.  It maybe possible to bend it back, but most
    metals today will break when you try to bend them.  It could also be a
    matter of reshafting to fix the metal if it's not the hosel.  You'll
    need to take it to somebody with the appropriate equipment.  Gene did
    you get the golfclub gauge yet?
    
    Jim, a mild soap with water a brush will clean chamois and rubber
    grips.  Also a fine sandpaper will work.  As for leather, (I've never
    tried this) but you might want a leather cleaner.
    
    
    						KO

    
    Hi Guys,
    
    	Thanks Jack + Kevin
    
    	I have a Taylor metal driver.  Talking with Brad Durrin (the Pro
    	at Monoosnock CC) he noticed that the shaft is kinked right at the
    	hosel. Looks like my driver needs a new shaft ...
    
    	Which opens the door for another discussion. Can I choose another
    	style shaft, like graphite etc. ? Or will changing cause swing 
    	weight problems?
    
    	Thanks Walta

     You can put in anything you want, but if it's bigger at the tip,
    they'll have to re-bore, or if it's smaller, shim it. In either case,
    some reweighting is most likely inevitable. You might want to look at
    the gold graphite HM-40 shaft.
    
    --Jack

         About once a month, I put my clubs into the kitchen sink to
    scrub off the really hard to clean stuff like tee paint and then
    reverse the clubs to get the grips nice and soapy. Then I use a 
    regular green nylon scouring cloth to clean the grips. Works like
    a champ and doesn't appear to cause wear on the grip!!!
         About reshaftting, a competent club repair person should be
    able to keep the swingweight the same no matter what type of shaft
    you want to go with.
    
    Mad Hacker

    I'm having a problem with the plastic ferrules on top of the hosel.  Is
    there an easy way to install them?  They are always slightly larger
    than the hosel, so require filing/sanding whatever.  It is recommended
    to use a cloth (?) belt sander and buff it down.  Unfortunately, I
    don't have one of those and they're pretty expensive.  Acetone doesn't
    seem to work very well either.  I sand/file it down but then the gloss
    finish is gone.  I then use urethane but that may not dry evenly.  Any
    experts with an inexpensive, easy solution?  
    
    Len

     First, make sure you buy ferrules whose i.d. matches the o.d. of the
    shaft. You can soak the ferrule in acetone to soften it, then
    IMMEDIATELY install it on the shaft and lightly tap it into place.
     I'd suggest you buy a drill stand ($ 5.00 or so) and mount it on your
    bench. Place the drill on it and mount a cloth buffing wheel and run
    the drill at LOW (!) speed to polish the ferrule. Make sure the acetone
    is dry (wipe the ferrule with alcohol, and let it dry for a minute or
    two). You may also want to put some buffing compound on the wheel (ask
    at the hardware store, but I think the white stuff is best for "fine"
    polishing) and buff at LOW speeds. Subsequently, polish the ferrule
    with a different, clean wheel. The wheels are cheap, and you'll have to
    buy an adapter to put them in your drill. Actually, the wheel you use
    for compound has a firm surface, whereas the polishing wheel is fluffy
    - 2 didderent types. Again, tell your hardware guy what you're looking
    for, or order this stuff from Maltby golf (800 848-8358).
    
    --Jack

    Walta about reshafting the Taylor Made, the HM40 will fit directly into
    the head no problem.  I've done this several times without a hitch.
    DO NOT try it yourself!  You must "deburr" the head.  There is a 20�
    ream to do this.  Someone into club repair (a non beginner) is your
    best bet.  As for the swingweight, it will go down several points.
    Don't try to have it brought back up to where it is now.  The idea
    behind the graphite shaft is to reduce the weight (overall and SW)
    to increase clubhead speed.  About the heaviest you could make it is
    around C4.  If you use lead to bring it up to Dx, you will have wasted
    your money.
    
    As for the ferrules, if it is already on the club but is oversized,
    tape the hosel to prevent scratches.  File the ferrule smooth with the
    hosel of the club (and of course maintain the taper).  Buff the ferrule
    with steel wool to blend in the scratches then rub with acetone to
    bring back the shine.  I used to use this technique before I got the
    linen belt for a belt sander.  Even with the linen belt you have to
    buff with acetone.  IF you are installing them and they are slightly
    oversized, no problem let the epoxy hold it in place.

    
    Hi Kevin,
    
    	Thanks for the advice... I plan on getting a graphite shaft
    	installed. 
    
    	Walta

    
    
    
    Thanks for the tips on ferrule installation.  I lucked out this week end.  
    I reshafted a metal wood and the ferrule went on nice.  No forcing, no 
    filing/sanding, nothing.  Beautiful.
    
    This note is probably a good place to mention this.  Golfsmith is
    having a Clubmakers Association National Seminar, October 15, 16 & 17 in 
    Austin, Texas.  I'm not sure if it's open to the public or if you have to 
    belong to the Golf Clubmakers Association.  It sounds like it would be 
    pretty informative.  Also includes a 'select shot' golf tournament.  Rooms 
    are reasonable - $45 single, $50 double which includes full breakfast and
    complimentary beverages.  Admission to the seminar requires a $50
    deposit and $142 balance paid at registration upon arrival.  Anybody
    been to one of these before?  Anyone planning on attending this one? 
    Are there any held in the New England area that anyone is aware of?
    
    Len
    
    

RE:        <<< Note 1063.10 by CSOA1::KOBRIEN "Certifiable golfer" >>>

    The idea with graphite shafts is NOT necessarily to reduce total weight
    and/or swingweight.  The idea is to put more mass in the clubhead while
    retaining the SAME swingweight.  This will have the side-effect of
    reducing the total weight.

    The idea is to bring more momentum into the clubhead.  Momentum is the
    product of mass times velocity.  Thus, with the same swing (and the same
    feel to the golfer since the swingweight is the same) you get more
    momentum at impact by increasing the mass of the clubhead.

      PL

    RE: 13
    
    Thanks, you saved me my comments on the purpose of using graphite
    shafts.  When reshafting a Taylor Metalwood I can't stress enough 
    the importance of coneing the hosel, and deburring.  I've repaired
    many metalwoods and irons for folks who have had the misfortune of
    forgetting to do this.  The metal edge gradually cuts the graphite
    fibers and your shaft will fray if you don't bevel the hosel.
    
    As far as the open/closeing problem with the Driver, If the hosel is
    bending, get a new driver.  If it's a shaft problem, try a better 
    quality shaft with the same kickpoint.  You can match the swingweight
    even if it requires lead down the shaft.  I don't like to swingweight
    in this fashion because it changes the feel slightly.  I've had some
    success tapping and threading a swingweight port in metal heads.  It's
    a touchy operation, but you can then place the lead directly behing
    the sweet spot.  I've done this several times when replacing a steel
    shaft with graphite.  I just buy the set screws, drill a hole, lead
    fill to weight, and foam fill the cavity.  Say goodbye to the "ping"
    sound, and hello to a solid crack.  Now you've got the same swingweight 
    in a lower total weight club.
    
    I clean rubber grips with hot water, spic 'n span, and a vegetable 
    brush.  I've used saddle soap and neatsfoot oil on leathers.
    
    Rick

RE: .13 & .14

I recommend that you read the literature from Aldila, True Temper et al
on the subject of swingweight with graphite shafts.  Also there was a very
interesting article in the clubmakers quarterly a while back on the subject.
Anyway the recommendation is NOT to bring the swingweight back to the
"standard" swingweight of Dx.  The reason for the recommendation is that it
defeats the purpose of using graphite in the first place.

I don't know where you guys studied physics, but I seem to remember something
like KE = � mv�.  This says that the distance a golf ball will travel is a
function of the mass and the SQUARE of the velocity.  It then stands to reason
that you will see a greater improvement by increasing the clubhead velocity
than by increasing the mass.  (While we're at it maybe someone here could give
us a discussion of the difference between mass and weight.  Mass and weight are
not the same)  Given this I must respectfully disagree that maintaining
swingweight from steel to graphite will increase distance.  I must also
disagree that the club will feel the same if the swingweight will be increased
the the "standard" Dx.  The head will be substantially heavier, the CG will be
moved dramatically and the overall weight will be changed.  The club will not
BE the same and will not FEEL the same.  Using a graphite shaft has a whole new
set of problems in a golf swing.  Artifically changing the club to adhere to an
already artifical (non)standard can only make matters worse.  I stand by my
original assertion that a graphite shafted club should not swing put above C5.


					KO

    My physics is simply this...
    
    lighter total weight... faster clubhead speed.
    
    swingweight is less of an issue... if you like c8 and the graphite
    shaft moves you to c4, it changes your release point.  Why not get
    the same feel in a lighter (overall) club?
    
    P.S. It's all in our heads anyway!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    
    Rick

    I was considering this discussion and it seems to me that there is
    something wrong ! If you change a steel shaft for a graphite one,
    assuming all other things remain the same, the total weight of the club
    will be reduced...OK so far ? Now because the shaft is lighter, and
    because swingweight is measured from a fixed point 14 inches from the
    butt the relative weight of the head end to the butt end should be
    increased ?? That is the head, far heavier than the grip will change
    from being 85% of the total weight to 90% (guessed values) ? So a club
    should change from c8 to d0....no ?
    
    I don't know about anyone else but I seem to remember a few years ago
    when lightweight clubs were the fashion. They don't seem so popular now
    !
    
    For myself, I know that adding some lead tape to my graphite shafted
    driver, so that it is the slightly higher swingweight than the rest of
    my clubs, has improved the length and direction of my driving. Although
    some people might say that it couldn't get worse !
    
    I need to feel the club. If it's too light I don't know where the head
    is and generally I have only too good an idea where the ball isn't
    going to go.
    
    Again, if low swingweight is an advantage with a driver, as opposed to
    low total weight, why do most long driving competitions feature
    monsters with vry high swingweights ??
    
    Mike 

    
    Geeze, I go on vacation (the Balsams course was GREAT - but that's
    another topic) and there are all kinds of great notes in here now.
    There are some great points mentioned here and some must do things
    like the coning of the hosel when installing a graphite shaft.
    
    I was going to try to stay away from this one, but I have to add
    my thoughts... I have always contended that the correct swingweight
    for a club is totally an up to an individuals feel and results...
    
    When you replace a metal shaft with a graphite shaft the swingweight
    will definatley be lighter and the overall weight will also be lighter
    (we all agree here). Graphite shaft manufacturers recommend that you
    do not add an excessive amount of weight down the shaft to increase
    the swingweight and also that if you use preformed metal tip weights
    to increase the swingweight that these weights should NOT extend to
    a hight that would be above the top of the hosel. Now even with the
    addition of these preformed tip weights you are not going to get the
    swingweight up to what it was with the metal shaft and assuming that
    you do want the same swingweight then you need to either add some
    weight into the head via a weight port, as has been mentioned or add
    some lead tape to the outside of the head. BTW, adding lead tape to
    the head is perfectly legal as long as you don't add it or remove it
    during a round...
    
    I contend that most people would want to bring the swingweight weight
    up to what it was with the metal shaft (provided that they liked the
    feel and the results of the initial swingweight), but then some people
    find that they get better results with the lighter swingweight. I also
    agree that you should not try to get the swingweight up to the original
    swingweight by adding weight down the shaft.
    
    By using graphite shafts or any lighter weight shaft you are trying to
    lower the total weight of the club but still retain the same
    swingweight, in so doing you are concentrating the added weight or
    mass in the head (which is where it belongs). Something to think about
    is that you can have a standard club that has a swingweight of say
    D0 and you could also make a club with the same swingweight but have
    a total weight over 5 pounds...! ;-)
    
    Some manufacturers make heads (metal woods and iron heads) that are
    heavier than normal/standard for the sole purpose of being used with
    the lighter graphite shafts to help illiminate the need to weight to
    achieve the desired swingweight...
    
    Regards and happy swing(weight)ing
    Gene

RE:  .15

>>>  I recommend that you read the literature from Aldila, True Temper et al
>>>  on the subject of swingweight with graphite shafts.  Also there was a very
>>>  interesting article in the clubmakers quarterly a while back on the
>>>  subject.

KO, 
    We are not all privy to this information.  It would be very helpful if
    you could supply us with the relevant quotes.

>>>  I don't know where you guys studied physics, but I seem to remember
>>>  something like KE = � mv�.  This says that the distance a golf ball
>>>  will travel is a function of the mass and the SQUARE of the velocity.

    Let's mind our notes etiquette here and stick to the subject (not my
    educational background).

    While it is true that the ball will travel further if it has more
    kinetic energy, it must first obtain that energy as a result of the
    transfer of momentum from the clubhead.  In any collision, the amount
    of momentum that is transferred is inversely proportional to the 
    relative masses of the colliding bodies.  Another way of looking at it
    is to say "a heavier clubhead will 'bounce back' less off the golf ball
    that a lighter clubhead would".

    Also, if we are interested only in clubhead speed, why not simply
    lengthen the shaft?  Or swing faster (I don't believe that the weight
    of the club limits the speed it can be swung at with the possible
    exception of Gene's 5 pound club).

	PL

         I use an extra long driver which is also a little lighter than
    my old driver. I feel that the increased clubhead speed is not from
    the lighter weight or graphite shaft but a simple matter of shaft
    length. The graphite club is 1.5 inches longer and this equates to
    a wider swing arc and increased clubhead speed IMO. I still haven't
    hit any drives farther with the Graphite club than my old driver,
    but I sure put a lot more of htem in the fairway.
       How about grips ? I have been using a new dimple grip on a couple
    of my clubs and find it to be superior to any grip I have previously
    used. Any one else try these grips ?
    
    Mad Hacker

    Hi,
    
    	I have been looking for the plastic tubes that go in golf bags to
    	help keep the grips from ripping etc. , anybody know where to
    	get them? How much do they cost? I tried a hardware store but
    	had no luck....
    
    	thanks in advance,
    
    	Walta

    
    RE: .21
    
    	Walta,
    
    	Don't waste your time and money... IMHO..!
    
    	Gene

    Let's cover sime more of the details.  As for the manufacturers
    suggestions, Gene covered those very well.  Rick also points out that
    swingweight doesn't really matter, overall weight is a more important
    spec with which to be concerned.  Now clubhead velocity.  The ability
    of a person to generate clubhead velocity is a function of their
    relative strength, which includes such things as timing of hand
    release with leg drive etc.......  Given this, as the weight of the
    club is increased, the speed will decrease.  Conversely, as the weight
    is decreased etc.  Of course diminishing returns enters into it as it
    always does.  So the trick is to find the point where a player will
    achieve max clubhead speed with max weight.
    
    As for the physics of colliding objects, I must have slept through that
    lecture.  -:)  I've always thought that the law of conservation of
    energy applied here.  The amount of energy (PE) that the ball gets at
    impact is the KE of the clubhead, thus the �mv�.  Increasing the length
    of the shaft will increase the clubhead speed for the same reason that
    a point on the outside of a record is moving faster than a point near
    the center.  However you have to be able to control the clubhead to
    keep the ball in play.
    
    So in summary.  Removing weight from a club by changing to a graphite
    shaft will/can increase distance.  Bringing the weight back up to it's
    original level however will negate the effect of adding the graphite
    shaft.  Adding some weight back can bring you to the knee of the curve
    of diminishing returns.  How much weight?  See you club fitting
    professional.
    
    OH BTW when adding weight to a graphite shafted club, do not use lead.
    Lead can be corresive to graphite so the use of brass slugs is
    recommended.
    
    
    					KO

    Re:                <<< Note 1063.21 by WALTA::LENEHAN "stick-em" >>>

    Walta,
    
    I agree with Gene that the tubes are a pain, since they come out with
    the club,  nevertheless  I like them  mostly  to keep my clubs neatly
    inside the bag, and  to  stop  the  mess inside the bag of all shafts
    crossing each other, I can't avoid this on my nylon carry-on bag, but
    when I ride a  car  I  use a 9" bag, and what I got from Austads is a
    foam circle with punched holes the size of the tubes.  The circle has
    several  outside  rings  precut so you can reduce the diameter of the
    circle to make it fit snugly the inside diameter of you bag.  Austads
    sells it with or without tubes.  The only problem that I  had with it
    is that it only has 14 holes, and while I never (:-) carry beyond the
    max, there is no space for other things like a ball retriever (why, I
    never have the need of one :-).
    
    I don't have with me Austad's 800 #, but I'll get it from home if you
    are interested.
    
    In any case, the tubes  can be found in any golf shop, like Nevada or
    NE Golf Supplies, or I have seen  it even where Fuzzy practices golf,
    I mean at Kmart.
    
    Tavo

    Hi Tavo,Gene
    
    	I see what you're saying Gene... the tubes are a pain when they pull
    	out with the club. I just hate the way my clubs get stuck in my
    	ping carry bag.
    
    	I like your idea Tavo,  I never thought of using one of those 
    	devices... I'd be interested in getting one. If you could get
    	the 800 number I'd appreciate it. Unless someone knows where there
    	might be an adjustable diameter golf club guide around the Mass
    	area?
    
    	thanks Walta

     Walta, I did a LOT of caddying as a kid, and IMHO, the tubes are an
    ABORTION. If you think you've got trouble now, just wait till you "plug
    in" the tubes...
     Your real problem is that the Ping bag has a weird configuration of
    compartment dividers at the top. I used to own a nylon Ping and, again,
    IMHO, it was a piece of s$#%. The real "Cadillacs" now are made by Sun
    Mountain. I saw one that was heavy nylon with FULL LENGTH compartments
    (all the way to the bottom of the bag to keep shafts/grips from rubbing
    and tangling when you pull 'em out) which was kinda like a PING on sale
    for about $50-55 at Wayland (I shop there occasionally, but NEVER play
    there). Here's another tip on nylon bags, "Scotchgard" the hell out of
    them; otherwise rain (even dew) goes right through 'em.
    
    --Jack
    
    P.S. About 7 years ago I wrote Ping with a bunch of suggestions to
    improve their bag. I got a letter back saying they were considering
    some ideas already and that others were planned. 7 years later - NO
    CHANGE.
    

    Reply -2
    
    	Hi Jack,
    
    	Geee... I guess a "new" bag wouldn't hurt ?? Seeing as I have
    	new irons?? You sure are right about the Ping bag being 
    	garbage. It's very light, which is good, but the wooden pole
    	on my bag keeps falling out of the slot... and as you mentioned
    	the club compartments are poorly thought out.
    
    	I'll have to show Eunhwa your note :)
    
    	Thanks for the tip .
    
    	Reply -1
    
    	IMHO = in my humble opinion
    	JMHO  = just my humble opinion  
    
    	some leave the "humble" part out
    
    	Walta
    	

RE:           <<< Note 1063.23 by CSOA1::KOBRIEN "Certifiable golfer" >>>


  I think we are in violent agreement that there are a myriad of factors
  that affect the performance of a golf club.  The point I am trying to
  make is that with ALL OTHER FACTORS BEING EQUAL *  the effect of a
  graphite shaft can be attributed to the fact that it permits an increase
  in headweight.

  *  recognizing that with the lighter shaft you cannot keep both total
     weight and swingweight equal.
    
>>>    I've always thought that the law of conservation of
>>>    energy applied here.  The amount of energy (PE) that the ball gets at
>>>    impact is the KE of the clubhead, thus the �mv�.

    For this to be true, the clubhead would have to stop dead at impact.

>>>    Increasing the length
>>>    of the shaft will increase the clubhead speed for the same reason that
>>>    a point on the outside of a record is moving faster than a point near
>>>    the center.  However you have to be able to control the clubhead to
>>>    keep the ball in play.

    This is exactly the point I was trying to make in my last reply.  Sure,
    we can make longer clubs.  Sure, we can swing harder.  But we have all
    learned that we sacrifice control in doing so.  Graphite lets us keep
    the same length and swing tempo (more or less).
    
>>>    So in summary.  Removing weight from a club by changing to a graphite
>>>    shaft will/can increase distance.  Bringing the weight back up to it's
>>>    original level however will negate the effect of adding the graphite
>>>    shaft.  Adding some weight back can bring you to the knee of the curve
>>>    of diminishing returns.  How much weight?  See you club fitting
>>>    professional.
    
    You touched a nerve on this one...
    This topic is for sharing information and thereby improving our clubmaking
    skills.  "See your clubfitting professional" is the kind of condescending
    remark I'm used to seeing in so-called informative articles in the
    golf magazines.

	PL

    Re. Tubes.  I use electrical tape and join all the tubes per
    compartment together.  Thus when you pull a club the tube is not
    able to come out as it's attached to the others.  I tape at the bottom
    of the tubes as this will allow the clubs to separate at the top some.
    My only problem is I've purchased a sand wedge and have yet to tape the
    tube to the others. 8^)  For the more tech. types you may wish to touch
    on the better type of tape ie. your duct tape etc. 8^) IFHO

    Freebie,

    RE: tubes
    
    The one tube in my bag is to protect a Boron/Graphite shaft.
    
    RE: the rest of this stuff
    
    I've had a great deal of success increasing the distance senior players
    can drive the ball (5-15 yards) with a particular driver I've been
    building.  I've now built 7 of them, and have sold every one.
    
    All of the fellows using them were using steel shaft drivers before.
    The specs are as follows.
    
    Shallow face metal head 10 degree loft
    Kunnan Gold Boron/Graphite Shaft 3.5 degrees torque
    C-6 swingweight, ridiculously low total weight. 3/8 inch over standard
    length.
    
    I don't know why this works, but it does.  I can only hit this driver
    if I use about half a swing.  You guys can figure the physics involved.
    I work by trial and error!  I've put together and torn apart a
    ridiculous number of drivers.  Our club pro, and assistant "test" all
    my stuff for me.  When I find stuff that works, I duplicate it.  Most
    of what I've had success with has a low total weight.
    
    Rick 

    I am interested in replacing the shaft in my Adx 100 with a 
    high performance graphite shaft. My swing speed with the driver
    is in the 95-100 mph range. If I slow it down, I hit the ball
    fairly straight with a distance of 250-270 yds. When hitting
    at full speed, the ball always goes right (fade-to-slice). I 
    am considering the HM40 shaft but am open to suggestions. I
    feel that at the higher swing speed, the shaft torques to much
    with the oversized head so it never squares up through the impact
    zone. Any advice from all you clubmakers out there would be
    appreciated.
    
    Mad Hacker

    
    MH,
    
    What kind of shaft is in the driver now? Is it metal and you want
    to switch to graphite? The Aldila HM40 is a fine shaft, there are
    other shafts available that have nearly as low a torque rating as
    the HM40 - it depends on what color you would like your shaft to
    be - that is if colors makes any difference to you...
    
    Regards
    Gene

    Gene,
       The shaft in my driver is called Carbon-Graphite composite 
    with no brand name. It is silver (almost metal-flake) and
    looks a lot like the True Temper Modulus shaft. Color isn't
    important to me, although the neon shafts are a little garish !
    
    Mad Hacker

    Greetings,
    
       I recently picked up a Neumann leather grip for my driver from Golf
    Day. It didn't have any instructions. It came with the leather strip
    not yet applied to the grip base. I know how to install the grip but
    how to get the leather strip on? There was no adhesive or anything..
    
          
    -Steve.

    
    I was watching the Senior tour yesterday, and the made a comment that
    Trevino was using a 7 wood that he turned into a 5 wood.  
    
    How would (no pun intended) this be done?
    
    Shane
    

    
    Hi Shane,
    
    	The only thing you could change to get the extra distance is
    	the shaft length. I know a guy who plays a five-wood with a 
    	3 wood length shaft, and he loves it. On windy days I'd
    	expect it to be pretty tough to hit a target...  which
    	makes Trevino's conversion of a 7 wood even more surprising.
    	He must be finding the rough too difficult, and needs a club
    	he can stick from the rough from 200+ yards away.
    
    	Walta
    
    

    re: .37 and Shane...
    
    depends on what they said about Lee making 7 wood into 5 wood.
    I remember watching a tourney with him once and they said this
    same thing but the way they said it implied he was using a standard
    7 wood but hooding it on the shot to get 5 wood distance...
    
    this can be done with any club as hooding the head od the club
    in effect takes off loft...therefore you can turn a 5 iron into
    a 3iron, 3 iron into 1 iron, 7 wood into 5 wood...so there are ways 
    other than changing shaft lengths...

    
    re: -1
    
    I believe they implied that he actually made a change in the club.
    This many not be an exact quote but I believe it is close.  I think
    it was Jim Colbert, the roving reporter....
    
    "Lee's going to hit that little 7 wood that he had made into a 5 wood,
    he told me he really likes this club........."
    
    Oh well, just curious because my favorite clubs in my bag are my 5 & 7
    woods.  
    
    Shane
    

     He probably plugged the butt to add length, and had the loft of the
    face reduced.
    
    --Jack

    
    Reply last three -
    
    	Hi,
    
    	I wouldn't expect Lee to go to such extremes to make a 5 wood...
    	If he were to add length *and* deloft the clubface that would be
    	extreme, what would that buy him? If he were hooding the face
    	I doubt very much he knew the result would be a 5 wood and
    	not a 6w or 4w, hooding the clubface isn't the type of thing
    	that you'd want to do when playing a wood anyway.
    
    	Since this is just guess work, until someone finds out the real
    	answer... I'll go a coffee he lengthened the shaft ;)
    	
    	Walta

    
      I can answer this.
    
      It's in the swing.
    
      Lee and myself have the same kind of swing. We hit everything with
    3 iron loft except the wedge. I can make my 5 wood a 3 wood just by
    closing the face a tad and taking my normal (remove tons of earth)
    swing.
      The only difference is Lee has been at it longer than me.
    
      - Dave
                        

     There are resources available to tour guys to do this type of repair
    very quickly. Depending on how you do it, plugging and delofting take
    very little time, although there is probably some reweighting involved
    with the longer shaft.
     My guess is he liked the head shape of the 7 wood but wanted to change
    its playing characteristics. What he didn't want to do was change his
    swing, and as y'all know, hooding a club is not a very exact science -
    too many variables. I'm sure he'd rather set up and hit the club as he
    would any other, that's why I'm also sure he did what he described
    earlier. Would YOU rather hood a 7 wood for several key shots in a
    round if you were playin' for cash to create a 5 wood shot, or would
    you rather make a normal swing with the club specifically designed for
    the shot ? Unless it's strictly a one shot "trick shot" need that comes
    up during a round, i suspect you'd opt for the right tool. That's why
    pro's add/delete "tour spoons," 3rd wedges, 1 irons, etc. to their bags
    depending on the type of course they play. You need different tools at
    Merion than you do at Butler National...
     Now, where's that coffee ?
    
    --Jack

    and the answer is:
    
    	7 wood taylor made metal 25 degrees loft (equivalent of typical 5
    wood)...
    
    page 122 november golf digest...
    that is a quota so someone out there will have to check on the loft
    of a 5 wood for us....

    
    	Typical 5 wood loft is 21-22 degrees, typical 7 wood loft is 26-27
    	degrees. If Lee's "wood" is 25 degrees then it is a strong 7 wood
    	weak 6 wood, but no 5 wood...

     I didn't realize the wood in question was metal. That makes working
    the face a bit different...Of course, they could re-bore it and shim
    it, but now we're getting into serious work, and work which is probably
    not worth the effort. Hey Lee, just call Taylor-Made, tell 'em who you
    are and say you want 'em to make you a 7 wood size head with 5 wood
    loft and length. If a normal guy called with a request like that,
    they'd probably have him arrested...
    
    --Jack

    
    
    Ooooh the plot does thicken..
    
    	This is serious bussiness, the Lemon-stirs may have won $$ at
    	the Challenge Cup, but this half has managed to loose $30 of
    	it this week alone ;( ... I was just going to borrow the
    	25 cents from the wife to buy Jack a coffee, but ! Maybe
    	not :) . 
    
    	Well Jack, we may have to call this one a draw? My bet was Lee
    	lengthened the shaft, your bet was he also delofted the face.
    	Answer appears to be he's playing a 7 wood with a strong
    	face. The only thing I feel may get *me* a coffee is the
    	club is a metal wood... though prior to the bet I assumed
    	wood-wood like you.
    
    	Looks like we may have to leave this up to the ruling majority
    	of the notes file???  ;)
    
    	Call 1-900-Jack-is-right  
    
    	or
    	
    	Call 1-900-Walta-is-right
    
    	phones are waiting !!
    
    	

     I give up. Don't get your wife involved. If Eunwha realizes that this
    notes conference is starting to take food off the table, she'll start
    to inventory those secret hiding places where you've been ratholing
    money for the ADX 200...
     I used to hide mine in my pajamas, my ex-wife would NEVER look
    there...
     Truthfully, I think Trevino could play with a rake !
    
    --Jack

    
    Reply -1
    
    	Hi JAck,
    
    		Thanks , that was a knee-slapper laugh ;) 
    
    	Walta

    Re: last few
    
    The cover story of December Golf Digest is about Lee's utility
    wood. In it he talks about his 7 wood with 5 wood loft and from
    the picture it looks like a Taylor Made (has that unique sole with
    two guiding slots)

    
    I am sure that it must be a Taylor Made wood that Lee is using,
    since Taylor is one of his sponsors. There are several other
    club makers that have the metal woods with the runners on the
    sole though...
    
    Regards
    Gene

    With the  unexpected  snow  we  got  yesterday in Mass.  I guess it's
    time to think about doing something else other than playing.
    
    I just bought a second set of irons, a very used set of Wilson Staff.
    I bought this set because the price was right ($120)  and  being from
    Mexico  I  needed to reinforce my machism and give blades a  try  (my
    other set are Pings).  I had the chance to play with them a couple of
    times and I can't add anything that has not being said before:  I can
    play the ball more, and  less  forgiving,  but  when I hit it square,
    they feel good!
    
    In any case, being old some heads have nicks (or dents?) and the 7 is
    loosing chrome.  So my question is:  Is this repairable?  and if yes,
    is it worth giving what I payed for them.
    
    Regards
    Tavo
    

    RE: .53
    
    Tavo,
    
    	The heads can be repaired.  I did a set of staffs a couple of years 
    ago and they looked like brand new.  If you want them done your best
    bet is to give The Golfworks a call (don't have the number handy) but
    I highly recommend their work.  If you want the number send me mail and
    I'll get it for you unless someone else has it handy.  As for them
    worth the money, I'd say they are.
    
    
    
    						KO

    Re:  <<< Note 1063.54 by EPAVAX::OBRIEN "Certifiable golfer" >>>

    Thanks for the info,  KO.    I  think I have seen ads of GolfWorks in
    Golf Digest, so I'll look  there  for the number.  I'll send you mail
    if I can't find it.
    
    Tavo

     I had a set of Staffs re-chromed by the Golfworks for about $12-14 per
    head (Cheaper if you pull the heads yourself and send 'em). They did a
    super job, but now you're significantly adding to the cost associated
    with the clubs. $120 for an old set in MINT condition is about a
    top-end price. $120 + the rechroming cost is no great deal. Why not see 
    if you can hit 'em first... BTW, I have an old set of Hogan
    "Medallions" down at the factory being re-chromed as we speak. I get a
    better deal from them though, because I'm lucky enough to know the
    Sales Mgr. Haven't seen the bill, however...
    
    --Jack

    Former club_makers members:
    
    I've restarted the conference (the old one was lost due to a problem)
    If you want to continue, send me mail.
    
    
    
    					KO

Hi,

    I have my pull-cart' wheels replace rubber tires (?).
    They have now cracks in the middle and almost split
    into two parts.

    Is there any repair shop or parts store to by them?

    I wish it is near Lexington (where I live), Littleton
    (where I work), or Haverhill (where my home course is).

    Thank you in advance.			- Yung

Does anyone know of a pro shop or an individual who can adjust the lie of one
of my irons in the So. N.H. or n/w of Boston area?

I've contacted every club in the So. N.H. region and noone has a loft/lie 
machine.  Green Meadow had one but they got rid of it!  They all send out
for club repair.  What about people who are acutally using their clubs?  I 
don't think I can do without my 7 iron for 2-3 weeks.  I just want to walk
in, get it done, and walk out without getting UPS involved.

I'm really surprised that pro shops don't do this kind of work anymore.  I 
guess they just concentrate on taking money for carts and greens fees.  I 
talked to one pro who said noone has asked about adjusting the lie or loft in
the 30 years he's been there!  I guess its because people are not buying 
forged clubs like they used to.

thanks,

Bob

    Ken Collins at Kustom Clubs in Manchester, N.H. will do this.
    
    He can be reached at (603) 623-7876.
    

    
Thanks.  I got his number from a club thats sends out to him.  I work in
Littleton Ma. though and would like to know if there is someone in that area
that could do the repair.

re: .61

	I just got off the phone with the Pro Shop at Whirlaway in Methuen
	(not too far from Exit 46) and they do this sort of work.  Prices are:

		$10 for a complete analysis of the whole set.
		$5 per club to make a modification (7 clubs or less)
		$4 per club to make modifications (8 clubs or more)

	Peter.

    
    	Club Craftsmans in West Concord, Ma.
    	Believe they charge about $3.00 per club.
    
    	508-371-1944

    
     I broke the shaft on my 8-iron over the weekend. How much should one 
     expect to pay to have this repaired? It was a steel shaft and I want
     to replace it with another steel one...
    
     Thanks, Phil 
    

    I don't know how much you should PAY to have it done.  I can tell you
    that the 1994 Golfworks catalog lists True Temper Dynamic Gold shafts
    for $6.05 each, in quantity 1.  When you buy 10 or more, it drops to
    $5.65 each.  A very few steel shafts cost more, many are less, in the
    $4.00 range.  A new grip would be $1.30 for your standard Golf Pride
    Victory grip.  To that you need to add some epoxy, a strip of grip
    tape, and some labor.  They sell an iron assembly kit for $5.50,
    which includes epoxy, solvent, grip tape, instructions, etc.  So, it
    sounds like the total material investment is about $13, in the
    smallest possible packaging.  I'd be interested to hear what you're
    quoted for doing the job...

                                Andy Ostrom

    
    Does anybody have a recent telephone number/address for Gene Kelley?
    He was a moderator in here for a while before he left Digital in 1991?
    
    He built some clubs for me and one or two of them could do with
    repairing.
    
    Thanks,
    
    POL.

the last work number I had for him was at Apogee Golf  627-1550....

Pat, you still out there?!?!?

Joe

    
    >the last work number I had for him was at Apogee Golf  627-1550....  
    
    The new number for Apogee golf is (603) 882 3335. 
    
    Thanks for the info.
    
    POL

>    Does anybody have a recent telephone number/address for Gene Kelley?
                                                             ^^^^^^^^^^^
  1-800-NHEAVEN  8^)