Conference 7.286::golf

    
     IT AIN"T RUMOR because that's how Stow operates on week-wnds anyway,
    and if your not a GOLD CARD holder, your foursome is charged the
    4 fees(credit card) EVEN if you one or two don't show, UNLESS, they
    have "odd lot" singles hanging around that they can fill in with.
    
    And I would say Juniper and Stow have the same "personality"!
    
    Ang
    
    
    
    

      I'm in the Northborough league. I ask Dudley (Homers son) about 
    whether our league could play on the new course next year. Dudley's
    commment was we probably could not afford it. They are planning to
    charge $20 for 9 holes and you must rent a cart even on weeknites, 
    league or no league. That's way out of line. At what point are these
    courses going to price themselves so that it's too expensive for
    the average player. That's what happened to all the tennis and
    racquetball clubs. When the economy finally hits the inevitable
    recession, I think a lot of these courses will have problems. People
    will begin to cut back on discretionary spending and chose less
    expensive courses or not play as much. Stow at least provides some
    of the extras you expect. Juniper hill has no parking, a tiny club
    house that's over crowded now etc. The whole infra-structure of the
    course is sub-par and they want to call it an "Executive Course"
    Any comments on the above ramblings?
    Joel

>      I'm in the Northborough league. I ask Dudley (Homers son) about 
>    whether our league could play on the new course next year. Dudley's
>    commment was we probably could not afford it. They are planning to
>    charge $20 for 9 holes and you must rent a cart even on weeknites, 
>    league or no league. That's way out of line. At what point are these
>    courses going to price themselves so that it's too expensive for
>    the average player. 

     It's just a case of supply & demand.  Unfortunately more & more
     people are taking up the game.  They aren't building courses at the
     same rate.  So there is some upward room in pricing.  However I
     think $20 for 9 is too high (I'm assuming that isn't with the cart.)
     is too high.  Stow is one of the better courses around and they only
     get $30 for the North course on a weekend.  (Since their price went
     up $5 the previous two years, but stayed level this year, they must
     feel that they are near the ceiling.)  But then again there's the
     concept of maximiizing net income, not gross sales.  If 100 people
     are willing to pay $100 you are better off than 200 people willing
     to pay $40 (and the course doesn't get as worn.)

	Larry

       I agree. But comparing Stow's organization with Homers operation is
    a joke. Whether you like the folks at Stow or not (I don't) they run a
    professional operation. From course equipment to Pro shop, Teaching,
    bar area, driving range etc. they offer you the whole ball of wax. At
    Juniper it's the opposite. No driving range, no Pro shop or lounge area
    to speak of. No real Pro to teach (I don't consider Homer's daughter a
    professional instructor), hell they don't even put soap and water in
    the ball washers, more rocks than sand in the traps Etc. The one thing
    they have going for them is the layout  of the course and maybe the
    new course will also have a good layout. Perhaps that's all that's
    needed to charge top dollar in the Northeast. The $20 does not include
    the cart by the way. 
    PS. You will also need a credit card to reserve tee times next year. 
        I wonder if he takes Sears?
    Joel
    

     What the hell, Homer's a jerk and he's always been a jerk. Boycott the
    course and let him eat it for his breakfast (since he won't have any
    greens fee cash). This is just another case of an undercapitalized guy
    riding a trend and trying to get his bait back ASAP.
    
    --Jack

    
    
    Well I agree with most of the comments about Homer/Juniper but I
    also play in a league there and I know we had to turn away about
    12 people in our league (we have 48) and the 48 we have now will
    probally get voted down to 36 there just isn't enough time to get
    48 people off in an hour.. We see so many people turned away during
    league nights.. Granted 20 bucks is steep he'll get it just for
    the overflow of non-league afternoon play... and with rates at Stow
    and Wachusett up to 30$ his price isn't going to be way out of the
    ball park.. It's tough to think about being in his shoes...?? If
    I get the full load of golfers every year and I go up a dollar every
    year and nobody cares.....(sounds like he has us by the Balls!!)
    boycott would be a great idea but I know   "it ain't gonna work"
    to many non-league players...     
    
    Bill_who_thinks_ten_bucks_is_to_much_for_nine
    
    and by the way Im not promoting Monique Darling but I know here
    credentials are pretty good a 4 year degree in Bio/Mechanics at
    Alabama and several PGA teaching schools....

    
    I run a DEC league that plays at Juniper and I'm PISSED !!!
    Not only is Homer going to charge big bucks on the new course,
    but fees are going up to $13 on the old course next year !
    As for leagues, he wants an exact count of players for each
    league next year and he wants these numbers by the end of 
    September !! Plus a $100 deposit to hold the tee-time. Then !!!
    he wants the greens fees paid up front each week !  If you tell
    him there is 40 players he wants $520 every week . If you cancel
    due to weather or whatever and the course remains open, he still
    wants the money ! $13 !!!  thats a 30% increase !!
    The impression I get from talking with some of the JERKS in the
    so called "pro shop", is that they could do without the leagues.
    or at least the leagues that say they'll have 50 players and
    only field 25. I've been taking a poll of our league and so far
    75% will NOT play next year under these conditions ! So I'm
    currently looking for another course !  @#$& you Homer !
    

	From the discussion I have garnered that the owner is a "jerk".
	To digress from the "Homer bashing" however some of the things 
	he's proposing do sound reasonable.  For example making a tee 
	time & requiring a credit card.  My feeling is that you are making 
	a contract.  He agrees to let you play his course @ 8:13 for example 
	and deserves to get paid if you don't show.  However, if you do show
	you deserve to be able to get right out & play.

	Similaryly his league payment sounds reasonable.  In the Stow league we
	have to pay for the whole year up front.  What doesn't seem reasonabable
	is that he wants a firm count in September & earnest money!

	There's no such thing as a free lunch in this world.  If he let people
	just blow off tee times by not showing up, he would be jacking the
	price to cover the no shows and everyone else would be paying.  I
	say let the no shows pay!

	I think his price is out of line.  He wants $20 + cart (what $8-10
	bucks?) for 9 holes.  For that sort of money you can play most courses
	for 18!

	Larry

>    currently looking for another course !  @#$& you Homer !

	Randy, I can understand you being P.O.ed and all, and although I don't 
know you real well, I remeber you enough to know, that you're a nice guy and 
all, but honestly, the last part of that above sentence, really does not 
belong in this notes conference.

	That said, here in the WFO DEC league, the course we play at charges 
the public $9 a round, but we get to play our league for $6 a round.  And we 
pay each week at the course.  If we do not show up, we do not pay.  I mean, 
when you call for a reservation a a restaurant, if you do not show up, you 
lose your reservation, but you do not have to pay for a dinner, you did not 
eat.  
	My thoughts are, if you make a tee time at a golf course, then the 
course should simply tell you, if you're not at the course and paid 15 
minutes prior to your tee time, your time will be given to someone else and 
you will lose your time.  But you shouldn't have to pay it all up front.  This 
guy seems to want everything.  With his type of attitude, I think he will find 
that very few leagues will want to play there.  Sounds like he should make his 
course a private course where all members pay annual dues up front.  

Beak

    
    Beak,   @#$%  =  " thank "    thus   " thank you Homer "
    
    geez !  what did you think I meant ? ;^)   and I am a nice guy !
    
    anyway, -2 mentioned $8 - $10 for a cart ? guess again ! try $14 !
    yea $14 for 9 holes !
    
    re; -1  we've tried to get a break in fees for the league but no go.
    
    I agree somewhat with the comments about teetimes and contracts and
    all, he's in business to make a profit, fine. The no shows we get in
    our league are 95% of the time due to vacations or business meetings
    and/or trips, we have 60 regular players and 6 alternates ! You can't
    always get an alternate ! (the alternate could pay you back) Also we
    re-schedule matches and play a different day so Homer still gets his
    money ! But he doesn't seem to understand this, or want to understand !
    
    We have ex Maynard league players who left due to Stows rules and
    will leave us too. At this point our 12 year old league may not make
    it to 13 ! This bothers me ! 
    
    well, all this typing does nothing so I'll leave it alone here.
    
    Randy
    

      Well, I see we have many Homer fans here. I'm sure people not showing
    for tee times is a problem for them, however you view this from the
    perspective that he is doing us a favor by having tee times. My view is
    that it is a 2 way street, both parties prosper with tee times. I know
    when I scheduled to play and he knows his time slots are filled with
    foursomes because he can match up people when they call.
      As far as the league issue is concerned. Our league is large. We have
    6 flights with 16 players per flight plus subs. We take up both front
    and back 9 with tee times from 4:00 - 5:30. Thats almost $1000 every
    Thursday nite from us plus Gallons of beer :-), soda, cart rentals and
    equipment sales. There is no way he could get that each week without
    the league, especially if the weather is marginal. With everyone in
    competition in the league we have a pretty consistant turnout.
       I think the comment about riding a trend is correct. However biting
    the hand that feeds you each week is short sighted. League members tend
    to be serious golfers who were playing before it became trendy and will
    be here after the trend followers take up something else. I can hardly
    wait. Is it my imagination or is a rule that if you own a golf course
    you must be an butt head. If I had to name 10 of the most surley,
    humorless and least likable people I've met, Course owners and managers
    would occupy the majority of the slots. From the Page brothers at Stow
    to the moron who runs Wachusett, to Homer I've filled in half my list
    already. The paradox in this is that if I had to list 10 of the nicest
    Strangers I've met, many were on the links.
    Oh well, I shut up now. FLAME OFF CAPTAIN, 
    Bring me, a scrubbery.
    Joel

>    Beak,   @#$%  =  " thank "    thus   " thank you Homer "
    
>    geez !  what did you think I meant ? ;^)   and I am a nice guy !
    
	Randy, as far as I'm concerned, you were always a nice guy, and still 
are, and I said that.  But, you're right, I didn't think you meant 'Thank' 
where you typed @#$%  since Thank has 5 letters in it and you only type 4 
characters.  Sorry for the misinterpretation.  I do agree with and understand 
why you are angered/bothered though.  I hope your league finds another 
suitable course to play on next season.

Good Luck,
Beak

    
    Well let's keep this stirring...
    
    it's said to be $20 for 9 holes on the new course and the current
    rate for a cart for 9 holes (and I stress current) is $14 bucks
    is that an outrage or what...!!!    oh get this he gets $5 bucks
    for a hand cart that means he needs to rent it maybe 6-8 times to
    recoup his investment and then it's paid and it starts rolling in the
    doe....!!!
                                                     
    
    Bill
    
    Boy Jim R.,
        Gardner C.C. rate of $7 bucks for unlimited golf on
    weekends after 3pm is unreal___!!!!!

    
    Homer is out of control....but he has always been out of control. I
    have played there for 20 years and he is the same now as he was back
    then. The fact of the matter is....Juniper is a nice course and week-
    nights and weekends are booked solid from May to November every year.
    
    Being President of the SHR DEC Golf League, I have tried to get
    into/onto Junpier for two years. No way, he is booked solid. He has
    told me that SHR can get in next year (91) on the new course. Are
    the members willing to pay $20.00 for 9 holes and $14.00 for carts.
    I will let them decide. In SHR, all full time members pay their greens
    fees up front for the whole year. We then pay the course each week. If
    a league member does'nt show up, it is his money not mine. I got his
    money already....or better yet...Homer does. Let your league members
    decide if the price is right. If not, go somewhere else. I am pretty
    sure you can get a league into Holden Hills, Heritage CC in Charlton
    and I am sure there are a few others. The time to change courses for
    next year is now!!!! The commitment to play in a league, show up 
    every week and play your match's on time is usually easier said than
    done. Getting the money up front puts the odds in the league's favor
    that most match's will be played. If a player or team doesn't show,
    I don't think the course should benefit....but Homer does. So you
    pay him. The Stow league has been very successful doing this. So
    has the SHR league. Many members don't like it with some very
    legit reasons, but it makes dealing with the course easier and gets
    the commitment from the member. 
    
    Bob
    
    ps: I understand that Homer plans on leagues rotating through the
        course. Each week...you will play a different 9. One of our
        league members got a tour of the new course from Homer's son.
        Looks real nice...That is the word from Dudley the dude.
    
    

    Remember back in early 70s when Tennis was the rage and golf courses
    were surviving because of leagues.
    
    Perhaps the worm will turn again if this type of blatant greed persists
    
    string-em-up
    
    (no, not necessarily Homer, I meant your rackets)
    
    bb

    
    The news in the Worcester Telegram announced that .....
    Homer Darling, owner of Juniper Hill Golf Course died last night.
    I don't have the details but my guess would be coronary.
    I had a meeting set up with Homer for tomorrow. When talking to
    the guys in the clubhouse, they said he was at the course at 4 am
    until 8 or 9 pm every day !! That would kill me too !
    
    Anyway, even though you don't like a person, you don't wish anything
    bad to happen to them.
    
    Randy
    

     I sympathize with his family, but I'd be hypocritical if I said I'll
    miss him. If he was a jerk when he was alive, he's a jerk when he's
    dead. Death doesn't canonize bad guys, and I'm sure there are people
    who'll say the same thing about me.
    
    --Jack

    
    
    		"AMEN!"

    
    
    Someone probably gave him access to this note, and the rest
    is history. rip.

    
    Incase anyone was wondering ...  The DEC Northboro golf league
    will be playing at Juniper Hill this year afterall ! We were able
    to work things out with Dudley. Greens fees will be $12 for 9 and
    NO prepayment required. (this year anyway).
    
    We are now accepting applications to the league just drop me a
    note on FRAGLE::STUART. We have to limit the league to about 60
    since we only have one hour to tee-off. 
    
    Randy