Conference 7.286::golf

    
       I honestly don't know why they even need to know.  All of the
    tour players are provided a "book" on the golf course prior to the
    tournament.  The book contains exact yardages from almost anywhere
    on each hole.  Any gaps are covered by the caddies walking the course
    and filling in the missing yardages before the tournament starts.
    
       Other factors that creep into club selection are the lie, how
    "pumped" the player feels and how confident they feel.  I could
    care less what someone else is hitting on a particular shot. 
    
    -rick

	I agree with Rick in .1.  I doubt very much, that many Pros attempt
to determine what another player hit on a particular shot.  In most cases, if
they are close enough to the other player, like on the tee, they can just 
about tell what club they are hitting.  But 90% of them make up their own mind
with some help from their caddy, as to what club to hit.  Remember, the Pros 
don't all hit each club the same distance as each other.  Some hit 9 irons 
from 150 yards, and others hit 7 irons.

Beak

    I agree with both .1 and .2.  I don't think it would be that big of a
    deal knowing what club another player hit.  I know that when I do know,
    I start to second guess myself and usually make a bad choice of clubs.
    
    Apparently the league officials are going to be cracking down on this
    rule during the U.S. Open though.....
    
    Peter

    
    
    	Don't they also use the same hand signals for the television
    announcers covering the tournament on TV? I remember an NBC announcer
    saying once " three fingers equals an 8 iron " and I always thought
    that Bryant Gumble used binoculars from the booth...
    
    John

Golf is a mind game (what an original statement!). Whatever makes you 
feel more confident in your decisions before your shot, is to your 
advantage. One factor not discussed here is wind. It can be deceptive. 
If you know what another guy hit, and you know that guy's game--and 
the pros know each other's games pretty well--you can guage your 
selection pretty accurately. These guys can tell whther the other guy 
has hit a hard 5, a smooth 5, or a feathered 5, too--and if they've 
hit it flush or not--hell even Benn Wright can tell. But mostly its 
just loading your confidence with as much ammo as possible.

As for the rule...well, it's a rule. I think the rule against tapping 
down spike marks is dumb, too, but I follow it. The only reason I can 
think of for keeping the rule is that it discourages gamesmanship; 
e.g., telling someone you hit a 5 when you actually hit a 4. It's 
virtually impossible to police that kind of cheating.

    
    I heard that Norman is so against this that he told his caddy that
    if he saw him doing it, he would fire him on the spot and carry 
    his own clubs the rest of the way in...!!!

    then of course there was the story about Hogan who would take one club
    more from the given distance on a par three and hit a cut shot, then
    watch as the people he was playing with took the same club and sailed
    the green....so unless you hit it the same as the next guy...chose
    your own club cause you could be outsmarted....
    
    

    I believe the CHEATING is being mis-used here.  It is only cheating
    to ask what another player is playing NOT in the other player offering
    that information.  Did I misinterpret this ruling?
    
    Stuart

RE: -.1

Yup. It's against the rules to tell someone, too.

    
    Rule 8-1. Advice
    
    A player shall not give advice to anyone in the competition except
    his partner. A player may ask for advice from only his partner or
    either of their caddies.

	I believe in using public information (just last week I looked in the
	competition's bag to see what club they were hitting) however I don't
	like the idea of caddies broadcasting that information between
	players.

	I've got to check the Decisions, but I seem to remember that you can
	look at a player's bag, however if he wanted to hide his clubs like
	by draping a towel over the top you can't move it to take a peek.

	Larry

    Out at the Byron Nelson a few weeks ago I spent some time on the tee of
    a par 3. You would not believe how much peeking and info passing goes
    on. 
    In one group the player that hit first actually pointed the head of the
    club, with the club number showing, to his playing partner to give him
    the club selection he made. Now that has got to be in violation of
    something. By the way almost EVERY player or caddie looked in the other
    players bag. 
    Deane Beamen issued a strong warning that penalties would be assessed
    if the flashing continued. At first it was OK for the caddies to signal
    to the TV folks but Deane has taken back that statement and now will
    not even allow the signalling to TV. 
    Maybe he better "spy" the par three's. That could open up another spot
    for employment with the PGA. 
    
    Ken

    I seem to recall one of the TV guys saying recently that there was
    even an objection to saying on TV) what club was used, because it could
    give an unfair advantage to someone in one of the following groups,
    who could get the info relayed to them by someone who'd watched
    the telecast!
    
    As for gamesmanship: There's an anecdote about Walter Hagen (who
    was with peer in this regard) once switching headcovers, leading
    his opponent to think he'd hit driver, when he'd actually hit 3-wood.
    Hagen's shot landed safely on the green. The opponent, operating
    with inaccurate data, hit driver, and put his ball 20 yards over,
    and deep in the woods behind the green.