Conference 7.286::golf

>     I just got back from a golf get together that 16 of us have every
>    other year or so on Long Island. While I was there, I had a chance to
>    try out the latest piece of high tech equipment - a Yonex ADX 200
>    driver. This thing has a graphite shaft and a graphite head and is 45"
>    long, but weighs the same as a 43" driver ! You should see the ball
>    SCREAM (!!) off this eyesore ! It's gotta be 20-30 yards longer, and
>    even significantly longer than "The Pencil" (the gold graphite shaft
>    metalwood).
>    I swapped a couple of old Macgregor persimmon woods with a friend who
>    is a Pro in NYC and have one of these babies coming to me ASAP. Retail
>    is around $360, but the woods I swapped (got them originally for
>    nothing) were valuable enough so I didn't have to come up with any
>    cash.
>     One more high tech product evaluation: I bought a pair of the Foot Joy
>    "Dri Joys" guaranteed waterproof for 2 years. They use a gore-tex type
>    of membrane in the shoe and it has leather uppers. Absolutely GREAT
>    shoe - no break in needed, real comfortable and dry. I've owned a lot
>    of shoes, but these are the best. I don't know why anyone would buy
>    anything else. In addition, I tried the Wilson Staff TC2 ball. Don't
>    miss this one guys, it is an absolute ROCKET!
    
    Ya, but can you control the longer shaft length...???!!! ;-)
    Seriously Jack, did you notice that it was harder to control than a
    43" driver...?
    
    It isn't at all surprising that it is the same weight as a 43" driver.
    You have to increase the weight in the head quite a bit to get a club
    to be tha same swingweight with a graphite shaft as you do with a metal
    shaft, so the longer length of this new driver just eliminates the
    need for the extra weight in the head to acheive the same swingweight.
    
    For years the boys that enter the long drive contests have been using
    clubs with longer shafts to get extra distance, it is just a matter of
    being able to control it and keep it in the target area...
    
    Regards
    Gene

     No problem with the extra length in terms of control, and the head
    appears to be perimeter weighted so I actually hit it STRAIGHTER. This
    is a VERY forgiving piece of equipment !
    
    -- Jack

    
    Did anybody else catch the interview Sunday with Jack and Greg Norman,
    they talked alittle about the help the high tech equipment is.  They
    both use a new driver (is it this one you are talking about?) that
    gives them extra distance.  They mentioned that you need to use it 
    because its there and others are using it so by not using it you are 
    disadvantaging yourself.  
    
    Jack mentioned that with these new clubs/balls they sort of take alot
    of the course out of play, you have to keep these guys on teh back
    tees.  Without the hightech you could give the course more looks by 
    moving tees around from day to day more.  Jack also mentioned that at
    the US Open (??) they attempt to take the driver out of you hand by
    tightening fairways etc.
    
    They also talked about the conditions of the course, they mentioned a
    tournament awhile ago (60's or 70;s I believe) where players complained 
    the greens were to fast. The stimp metered out at about 6-7. Well this
    week the greens were 11-12 and the fairways were about 6-7. Talk about
    well manicured.
    
    what do you think, would taking the technology away make it more 
    interesting?
    
    --Bob
     
    
    

        The high equipment is targeted to those of us that do not play at
    the level of the pro's. Its purpose is to improve our games. 
     I feel that the issue needs to be reviewed, not for the average
    golfer, but at the PGA tour level. One of the reasons advanced by those
    who favor the use of the high stuff at the professonial level is that
    golf is a sport where golfers like to use the same equipment as the
    pro's. I agree to a degree, but I also think that the equipment
    makers gain by having the endorsements and using them as marketing
    tool. 
     
     Consider for a moment major league baseball. From Little League to at
    least college level, the bats are aluminum. Yet, in the majors they
    play with wooden bats. Does it take the alure away ? As a purist, I
    would prefer only wood be used.
     Again as a golfer, my purist side would say "limit the high tech", but
    a purist from 1920's might have said limit metal shafts. So I guess it
    depends on your perspective.
     Jack's concern seemed to be that the older, shorter courses are being
    overwhelmed by the new equipment. To a degree he is right, but the
    players are bigger and stronger as well. Guess it really leads to the
    question of does it make a difference, for example, if the pros use a
    1 iron off the tee or the driver ? 
    
    
    
    
                            Ken
    

    re: .saw some of the interview and have no disagreement with what was
    said but what no one mentions is that a player "still has to hit the
    shots"
    
    	If the player at any level who was using the high tech equipment
    was ALWAYS winning then I might think it was time to take a closer look
    but this is not the case....YOU STILL HAVE TO MANAGE YOUR WAY AROUND
    THE COURSE, SELECT THE RIGHT CLUB, SEE THE RIGHT SHOT TO HIT, THEN
    EXECUTE THE SHOT...no question hi tech equipment gives the pro's an
    edge but seems like there are still as many winners as there are
    tourneys..even though the new equipment is shortening some of the
    old courses....until someone comes along and dominates the way
    Nicklaus,Hogan,Nelson did in their day then leave it alone....

     re .5
    
    I think you may be missing one aspect of the argument.  Could it 
    possibly be that one of the reasons no one player dominates is that
    the high tech makes the players more equal?  As Greg Norman mentioned,
    with the new driver he is getting another 20 yards or so.  At first
    this may not seem like much, but think, this could be the difference
    between hitting a 7 iron or a wedge/nine.  By taking away the high
    tech you basically could be increasing the length of the holes.
    
    When I play many of the local courses most of the par 4's are driver 
    and a wedge.  This gets somewhat boring after awhile.  For a pro
    this would be easy pickings for a low round.  It is very rare when
    I am forced to hit anything over a 7/8 iron into a green.  When I 
    do play a shot were I need to hit a 4/5 iron into a green then 
    the hole becomes alot harder.  The only difference in teh holes is
    the extract 30 yards that makes me change clubs. I to have one of
    the "high tech" clubs, last year I picked up a metal driver, it 
    lengthened my drives by about 30 yards and made them straighter.
    
    
    Sure you still have to hit the shots, its just that if you are 20-30
    yards closer, the shots become easier.
    
    --Bob
    

    re: .6
    	If that's the case then the scoring averages should have been
    comming down over the last 10 years an awful lot cause the pros are
    all great with 8 iron or less in their hands...but they haven't
    really changed that much....if anything the era of nelson-hogan-snead
    had lower scoring averages than do todays hi-tech pros....sort of
    makes me wounder if this is really a valid arguement/point????
    
    

    
    The club that Jack Varley is talking about and the one that the
    pros (Nicklaus, Norman, Floyd, etc.) have been using are not the
    same club. The ones that the pros have been using were given to 
    them by Jumbo Osaki (sp). It is made by Bridgestone and not available
    in the states, yet. There is an article on it in the latest Golf
    Digest. I will try to remember the basics of the article. The
    woods when availible in late May, will have a limited availability
    and will cost $400 each (they are available in 1-3-5, I think).
    They have a graphite shaft and and specialy desgined metal head
    (designed primarily by Jumbo along with Bridgestone). The standard
    length on these drivers is 43�". They will be available with
    regular, stiff, and X-stiff shafts. The shafts have a mid-shaft
    bend point.
    
    Drive for show, putt for dough...
    Gene

    
    re .7
    
    THe scores may not be that different, one thing that has changed is the
    speed of greens. Like Jack said, the pros complained about greens with
    a stimp meter of 5-6, now they are always around 10-12.  My scores jump
    when I play on FAST greens (no idea what a local green stimps at, any
    one have a number?).
    
    Since I started this note I probably should mention how I feel. I think
    that the human body and training methods have improved and have alot
    to do with extra distance etc.  Look at a sport like track/field.  
    Running times are consistently coming down, what can you attribute this 
    to? Light sneakers.  Look at Marathon times, run over normal roads so
    the effect of a synthetic rubber cement track is removed.  People are
    looking to break 2 hrs in the near future.
    
    Ya, equipment has improved, but so have the players. Now adays they 
    can play from the time they are small. 
    
    I think the equipment should be watched, but no change is needed yet.
    
    --Bob
    
    

    
     To change from Drivers to Putters. The first putter capable of standing
    itself has been banned by the R&A and the U.S.G.A .
     The Acculine PT 1000 was said to feature the most accurate alignment
    system in golf. To use the club, golfers were supposed to.....
    
    1. place the putter behind the ball
    2. move away and line up the putter from the rear using the alignment
       calibration markings.
    3. return to the putter, adjust and putt.
    
     Prior to the ban the putter was used on the US senior tour by a
    number of the competitors. Having only read about this putter and
    never having seen it in the flesh I was wondering if anyone could
    shed a little more light on the subject.
     Is this taking technology too far ???
    
                                            Derek. 
                                                  

    Sounds like banning it is a good idea - not for any 'game-improvement'
    reasons, but if everyone starts going through that ritual to take a
    putt it's going to add an hour to the round!
    
    It probably comes with complementary thoedolite to make sure you read
    the green properly.
    
    Paul

    I had to laugh when I read the note about the Yonex driver...Eyesore!!!
    I took an ugly piece of equipment out Sunday.  Cobra's new Ultramid
    driver is seriously ugly.  The head is really oversized and I don't 
    think you could miss the ball with it.  I hated the club!  It may be
    bullet proof but it isn't Rick proof.
    
    Rick

     Ugly for sure, but this weekend about 7 guys from Crumpin-Fox wanted
    to hit it, including our pro, our assistant and several low
    handicappers. They couldn't believe it ! I've got a lot of pure old
    persimmon, and I love the stuff, BUT - "business is business."
    
    -- Jack

    Clarification please!  You state that the driver was a Yonex ADX 200
    with Graphite shaft and head ... yet the brochure I have looked at
    states that the ADX 100 has the Graphite shaft and the ADX 200 has a
    Boron shaft...
    
    I only ask because I have ordered one and want to make sure I have
    ordered the right one ... also, I concur ... the Wilson TC2 golf balls
    are HOT!
    
    Thanks much...
    

    
    It is amazing how quick the companies that supply custom club
    makers pick up on a good thing... I received a new catalog a
    couple weeks ago and they have the head that is a clone to the
    ADX and advertise it as being able to accomodate longer shafts
    for extra distance... Sure can be made for less than the ADX too.
    
    Gene

    
    
    	Just used my new travel case that I purchased from Austad. For
    the hundreds of you that probably get the catalog it is the two
    piece plastic "shell". It is very lightweight and virtually
    indestructable. It has two separate locks and a heavy duty carry
    strap. Judgeing by the scratchs in it I now know what the airlines
    do to carry bags. I would highly recommend it @44.00 from a "sale
    " catalog. reg price is 55 I think. 
    
    John-
    
    ** It won't fit a 'staff' bag like the add says it will though..
    

    I was watching a little of the Nabisco Champ. and noticed Norman
    playing a ceramic driver. 
    
    Was I imagining things or did anyone else notice this white/light
    colored club.
    
    Ken

     For some reason, the "High-tech" bug bit me again and I ordered
    another Yonex ADX 200 - this one is 9 degrees (My old one was 11). I
    tee it high and hit it high normally, so - we'll see. Most of the
    better players (Not me - THEM) use 9 degrees or less, so I figured it's
    worth a shot. Unfortunately, the courses I play all have soft fairways,
    but sooner or later I'll find one that's firmer. Should work better in
    the wind, too. Ahhh, no matter what I use, Crumpin-Fox is still
    Crumpin-Fox...
    
    --Jack

    re: -1
    
    hey jack...
    
    	I'd think the 11 deg. was better on the softer fairways
    so you can get the distance by "flying" it there...you must
    want that 9 deg. so when you play the "good" courses that have
    fairways like the greens the rest of us are use to...then you
    can roll it another 50 yards....{;^)...
    
    dick

     It's kind of hard, in retrospect, to figure out exactly why I DID opt
    for the 9 degree. As I said, I do tend to hit it high. Also, there is
    virtually no one on the tour who uses an 11 degree driver. I certainly
    don't play like those guys, but they play a lot of very well
    conditioned courses and it makes sense for them to use less loft. Since
    they are playing for $$, and can use whatever they want, there must be
    a reson. I don't think it's because of the difference in their swings,
    technique, etc. Plus, when I hit it on the bottom of the club (Which I
    am prone to do), maybe I'll get a little more distance.
    
     I did play one course this year that had hard fairways - Rockaway
    Hunting Club, in Cedarhurst (L.I.), N.Y. Ken Venezio is familiar with
    it. Some strange holes and some truly great holes, and perhaps the
    trickiest greens I have seen, maybe ever. Right near the ocean, and no
    fairway water. It would be a much nicer course with better conditioned
    fairways, but on the other hand, it's so natural the way it is that I'm
    probably nit picking. I guess it's not a good idea to have a bunch of
    "Clone" golf courses (Condition-wise) all over the U.S.
    
    --Jack 

    Re -1
    
    Jack, we never did get a recap of your trip. RHC may have a funky hole
    or two, but I'd take a dozen of those type layouts over the courses
    being designed today. I mentioned the course had been redesigned since I
    played it last. Did they ruin it?
    
    BTW, I'm about to take my new Calloway to the range for a test drive.
    Hope it brings happiness to my game. Or it's in the bargain barrel with
    the others.
    
    Ken

     I agree about preferring layouts like RHC to most of the modern stuff.
    I didn't really see any changes to speak of other than quite a few
    small trees that were planted.
     I don't remember doing a trip report, but if I did, someone please
    give me a shout so I don't bore y'all twice. BTW, if the weather is
    o.k, I'll be able to add another course - WINGED FOOT! I'm scheduled to
    play the West course tomorrow pm. Lots of driving time to get there,
    but it's a dream come true (If not tomorrow, another time). Now if I
    can milk my network for Oak Hill (Rochester) in Sept., and Riviera in
    Nov., this might not be such a bad year after all...
    
    --Jack

     I'll add an endorsement here for the 9 degree version of the Yonex ADX
    200. I tried it for the first time yesterday, and you can really "Burn"
    it ! The fairways were quite soft, so I hit the 11 degree a couple of
    times, but the 9 degree job is really here to stay ! I also "Test
    drove" the new Worthington (Remember them ?) wound golf ball. I loved
    it - it really feels great off the club, plus, the price was right. In
    addition, I hit the new Head graphite shaft irons. Real good feeling
    golf club.
    
    --Jack
    
     

    Has anybody trid the Big Bertha driver by Calloway?  The pro at my club
    swears by it.
    
    Stan

     I like my 2 Yonex ADX 200's better (9 & 11 degree), but the "BB" I hit
    could have had a bogus graphite shaft. I saw a guy at the range the
    other day just KILLING a "J" driver with a graphite head. The problem
    with this new, high tech stuff is that if it isn't expensive, it isn't
    very good. R & D costs money, as does top grade material, and the
    manufacturers are extremely proprietary with their technology. You can
    copy this stuff till the cows come home, but you probably can't
    duplicate the kind of tests they've done to get just the right
    combination of ingredients.
    
    --Jack

I bought Big Bertha at the beginning of the year.  For the past few years, I was
only using a 3 wood off the tee - okay distance, good acuracy and consistency.
I decided it was time to use a driver, really can make a difference on those
460 yard par 4's.  I knew I wanted a large head driver and did look at most 
models.  What decided it for me was Big Bertha's large head is metal.

I did buy the 11 degree, graphite shaft. I have been using it most of the season
and am very happy I bought it.  It took me a little while to get some 
consistency, but its worth the wait.  My pro also swears by it.  He has the
same club I do and says its the best club he has seen.  He feels that Caloway
has really delivered on the high tech advances it boast about in its 
documentation.  He thinks most club manufacturers fall a little short on
delivering everything that they say. 

All I know is that it works for me and it a great feeling when you hit a long,
long tee shot.  Its hard for me to determine my average length tee shot, 
especially using yardage from the fairways.  Because sometimes I not sure if
I believe it - like the time I hit a real good drive on a 495 yard par 5, I had
190 yards left to the green.  I think I got some good roll that time.  My 
average I am sure is closer to the 250-260 yard area.  Also, with the 11 degree
loft I can hit Big Bertha in the fairway.  This does get me on or close to some
par 5 greens in 2. 

2 people I play golf with on occassion, tried my Big Bertha on the course during
a round with me.  (one is a 5 handicapper, one is a 28 handicapper) Both of them
loved it and bought it right after the round.

In summary, I highly recommend Big Bertha (even at its high cost).

 

    I couldn't find the Yonex note (don't know the "dir" command stream),
    so I'll enter this here. Last night I met with a pal who's exhibiting
    at a PGA Golf Show at the Colonial Hilton today - he handles Founder's
    Clubs. We were talking to a guy who knew a lot of the courses I knew,
    and the same folks. Turns out he's the Yonex rep - so my pal is going
    to pick up a Yonex 4 wood for me at "substantial savings" (Hopefully
    wholesale).
    
     The rep says Yonex has an ADX-E driver now that is 46", and a new X
    shaft 47" monster. The company treats the reps pretty well - last year
    20 of 'em went to Japan for 2 weeks for free, and got staff bags and
    clubs. Supposedly the ADX irons with forged heads are terrific, but
    when you're buying a house, terrific takes on a more serious meaning.
    
    --Jack