Conference 7.286::golf

    Hi,
    
    	Has anyone (in the notes file) ever qualified, or attempted to 
    	qualify for any of the MGA tournaments? If so, what exactly do
    	you have to do? How much does it cost?
    
    	thanks,
    
    	Walta

	I haven't but I have a friend who has.  My understanding is all you
	have to do is 1) get your handicap below the required cutoff, 2) fill
	in the application, 3) send in your money.

	Lest you consider reverse engineering your handicap I know that the
	USGA forces you to shoot within a certain percentage of your handicap
	or you are banned from future tournaments.  (In extraordinary cases
	you can send them a letter stating why you played so poorly and they
	will waive the restriction.)

	Dear USGA,
		I'm not used to playing competitive golf, I was just too
	nervous.  My game fell apart.  Also my course doesn't have water,
	rough, or woods.  All of these obstacles were new to me ....

	Larry

    
    Larry,
    
    	Thanks for the info....
    
    	So if I were to get a MGA handicap, and it's low enough, then call
    the course the tournament is scheduled to be played at... they'll
    probably have the applications? And come up with the $$$, I'll be
    entered? From there, will I play 18 against the others for the cut?
    
    I'm already nervous! And I haven't even got a MGA cap ;) !
    
    Speaking of which (if I appear to be rambling, hit me) , does a
    DEC handicap figure out close enough to a MGA cap, that the two
    could be considered the same?
    
    	Sorry for all the questions,
    
    	thanks,
    
    	Walta
    	

    
    A DEC handicap may work out the same since the DEC league may use the 
    same formula. But I would bet the house that the MGA would not accept
    a DEC handicap (if that is what you were implying). You need to get a 
    MGA handicap through a course.
    
    --Bob
    

    Bob,
    
    	I knew the DEC cap wouldn't suffice, but was just curious if it
    was calculated the same... Thinking maybe the DEC cap was lower than
    the MGA, which would lessen my chances to enter.
    
    	thanks,
    
    	Walta

         Walta,
    
               in my case, my DEC league handicap does come fairly close to
    my USGA handicap. As I recall, I have a 12 in the league (24 for 18)
    and my USGA is about a 26.
    
     I am jealous of you folks whose handicaps are low enough to qualify
    for the MGA tournaments. I would love the chance to play in them.
    
    
    
    
                                 Ken

         Walta,
    
	My speculation is that the standard deviation between your DEC
	league handicap and your MGA handicap gets larger the higher the
	DEC league handicap.  My reasoning is that most people are not very
	consistent and there is probably more variation between front nine
	& back nine scores.  For an MGA handicap these get combined together.
	For your DEC league handicap your worst nine's get thrown out.

	In my own experience my DEC league handicap (at Stos) ended at a 6 
	last year.  My MGA handicap at Stow is 14.  In the DEC league I posted
	a lot of 42's for nine holes.  My handicap card shows a lot of 89's
	for 18.

	The difference is only 2 strokes, but that's a 16% difference, I would
	call that significant.

	Larry

    Ken, Larry,
    
    	That rings true of what I've noticed... the MGA/USGA caps tend to
    run slightly higher. Does the MGA require some number of 18 hole rounds
    , instead of all 9 hole rounds, as with DEC? Seems there's two ways of
    looking at it, if you only count nine holes... you could say " the back
    nine would probably be better", therefore DEC should run higher. But,
    it appears empirically, that more holes played creates a higher cap.
    	Eunhwa and I joined Monoosnock, (if anyone would like to play
    sometime I'll set something up)... and they will provide MGA handicaps
    as part of the membership. If I remain a DEC 2 (9), I can expect to
    end up with a MGA 6 (18) or there about? That seems right. When I
    play 18 , I usually score high 70's.
    
    
    Walta
    	
    PS. I drove by Monoosnock on the way in, they have the flags in... but
    	the practice green says "Course Closed" . Maybe this weekend?!!
    
    

     Walta,

	MGA handicaps are commputed on 18 hole rounds.  There was an extensive
    discussion last summer about handicaps.  Consecutive 9 hole scores on the
    same course can be combined for an 18 hole score.  Also rounds of 13 holes
    or more must be turned in (you calculate your total based upon adding
    strokes on the holes you would have received them.)

    I guess it's time for the handicap calculation discussion again, simply
    out of your last 20 18 hole scores you take the 10 best differentials.
    The differential is calculated as

		(Sc - Ra) * 113
		---------------
		      Sl 

    Where:
	Sc - Your score (adjusted for Equitable Stoke Control...)
	Ra - Course rating
	Sl - Course slope rating

    For example if I shot an 88 on the South Course at Stow:

		(88 - 70.5) * 113 / 120 = 16.47

    Average the best 10 differentials that's your handicap.  (There may be
    minor errors in the explanation, but it's pretty close.)

	Larry

    I was a 4/8 while in the DEC league, but couldn't play anywherre
    near that away from Stow (I got killed at Marlboro). I've improved
    since then (though I still get wiped out in matches) and am now
    at an MGA 10!
    
    I think a lot of it is playing with a partner. I seem to remember
    being out of a hole and collecting a reward of a 30 foot gimmee ;-).
    I also seemed to play smarter with a partner to worry about (he
    was bigger than I ;-).
    
    By all means use the DEC handicap to enter tournaments, but don't
    expect to win many matches with it.
    
    Eric

    Eric,

    Ken Piel & I have been trying to figure out the discrepancies.  (He works
    down the hall.)  As I was thinking about it last night I can came to
    similar conclusions as you just mentioned.

>    I think a lot of it is playing with a partner. I seem to remember
>    being out of a hole and collecting a reward of a 30 foot gimmee ;-).
>    I also seemed to play smarter with a partner to worry about (he
>    was bigger than I ;-).

    Match play makes you play differently.  In the league I often am forced
    to play more aggressively than I would in stroke play.  Also playing with
    a partner influences your strategy.  Also being conceeded unrealistic
    bogey putts tends to underestimate your handicap.

	Larry

    Walt,
    I think you need an MGA 'cap, .
    I played in the State Public Linx twice, but they had Gross and
    net then.
    I guess it's all gross now since there are so many players now.
    It is excellent experience, even though I blew up being
    nervous.
    I was with the leader group for both gross and net then, and
    it was exciting.(first round).
    
    You def should get in with your game.
    If you join the MGA 'cap system, this year they are starting a
    quarterly magazine so will get more info.
                      Ang
    

   
    Thanks everyone, for all the info...
    
    	I am looking forward for the chance to play in a MGA event, and
    will be very happy to end up shooting my handicap. I really enjoy
    the added pressure and tend to play better under pressure ... probably 
    because I swing slower.  But, this year marks my first attempt,
    and I expect to learn a lot about stroke play and the difficulties
    of tournament play. 
    
    	It would be interesting to hear from someone that has given
    it a go'...  as to the level of play. Are the courses you play
    available to the public? Is it possible to pick-up a yardage
    book for these courses? I'd hate to go in blind! I can see it now
    , I'll have a hole like Robert Gamez' where he scored an 11 on
    an island green! In any event it will be fun ;) .
    
    	see you out there,
    
    		Walta
   

    Hi Walta,
    
      I made an attempt to qualify for the Mass Am several years ago.
    It was a great experience. I learned a lot. But I made some bad
    mistakes and shot myself out of it. I felt a lot of pressure on the 
    first tee but after that it seemed to subside. I played reasonably well
    I missed qualifying by 8 shots or so. Looking back now, I see that the
    mental part of my game was not where it should have been. I was just
    churning too hard inside, trying too hard.
      Maybe I'll try again this year. I see there's one at Framingham.
    I used to be a member there. Maybe I could do something.
    
    -Steve.
                              

    Walt,
    for the Public Linx, you can play George Wright in Roslindale/Hyde
    Park any time you want,it's run by the MGA and , it's the sight
    of the finals. I'm not sure of the qualifying courses,
    You def need to play Geo Wright before the finals to get to
    know that course, since many of it's members are very good
    low 'cap ( I know at least 3 that I went to school with) 
                                                     
    ..and if they qualify, (and they normally do) HAVE
    a big advatage.
    
    Remember, Jody Mudd is one of us, a "public" player!
    You could be next !
    Ang.
    

Walt, I'm sure you'll do well. Mass amateur competitions are a 
BARGAIN, as well as a fun challenge. If you have the handicap to 
qualify (which you won't this year, probably) and the time to give it 
(because they're invariably held during the week, not on weekends), 
it's an opportunity you shouldn't pass up.

The state amateur entry fee on the order of $60. That entitles you to 
a practice round and a competition round on the qualifying track (last 
year I qualified (or I should say, attempted to qualify) at Mount 
Pleasant--a fantastic track). Then, if you make the cut--usually a 75 
or 76 will do--you get a practice round and TWO qualifying rounds, 
followed by match play for as long as you last. When I made the cut at 
Stow a few years ago, I got two rounds at Stow and three rounds at The 
Country Club US Open layout for 40 BUCKS! As you can see, you don't go 
into the competition blind; you get a practice round.

The state mid amateur is an even better bargain (unless you move on to 
match play). You play two great (well, one good, one great) courses on 
the cape--last year it was Willow Bend and New Seabury Blue. For $80, 
you get a practice round and a competition round on each course--and a 
prime rib dinner.

Oh yes, competitors always get some little goodies from the MGA. I got 
some nice US Open head covers at TCC, and a pair of card gloves and a 
money clip at the mids.

But the best part of it is that you get to play some great tracks that 
you might not otherwise be able to play, and you compete with a 
field of good players, learning something every time. 

Go for it. You'll love it. You'll have to work a lot harder on you 
game if you want to have any hope of winning, but you can have a great 
time even without that ambition.

Tom

    Hi Tom,
    
    	Where have you been lately? Golfing I hope??
    
    	Your right on the money... I need a lot of work on my game, to
    bring consistently low 70's. I expect to devote "tons" of time to
    strengthen my weaknesses. You stated I probably won't get my MGA
    low enough to qualify for this year... What is the reason? I never
    applied for a MGA before, but the course I joined said they provide
    one as part of the membership. It crossed my mind (from seeing others
    complain about the slow response of the MGA) that I might not get
    the results soon enough, thereby preventing any chance to qualify.
    But seeing the handicap limits that I'm interested in, which are at
    " Public Links 10.4 " and "Amateur at 7.4" , I feel right now I
    could make the 10.4... but not the 7.4 (yet !) .
    
    	It sure sounds like a fantastic time! Didn't you win one of the
    tournaments last year? I think it was at New Seabury? Your right
    though, just to play at the courses you mentioned against such a
    tough group is heaven !
    
    	thanks for providing the insight,
    
    	So when do we settle last years match? That was a fun round...
    but we need a tie-breaker ;) !
    
    	I'll be practicing,
    
    	Walt
     
    

Whenever you're ready, Walter, and I'm not too busy--which I am just now.

As far as the MGA handicap stuff goes... Hell, you're good enough to 
qualify for the state ams, it's just the problem of getting enough 
scores submitted to the MGA to get a certified handicap in time to 
submit your application to get into the tournaments. I don't know 
about the pub links tournament--never entered it. The State Am 
qualifiers  are in early June, though. It seems to take that long--at 
least--to get a handicap. Of course, as often as you and your 
bride-to-be will be playing, it might only take a week to get the 
requisite 20 rounds! 

And, no, I didn't win any of the tournaments. My only claim to fame was 
that I was medalist the second day of the mid amateurs--at Willow Bend. 
I won't say what I did the first day at New Seabury. I usually do 
pretty well there, but the 40 mph winds blew me away.

Good luck. 

Tom

PS: I'll have you up at Marlboro again, if you have me up at your 
club. Never played there.

    Hi Tom, Angie, Larry , and others,
    
    	Thanks for the MGA stuff and your support. I'm going to do my best
    to enter one of the MGA tourny's this year. The information has been
    very helpfull...
    
    	Walta