Conference 7.286::golf

    RE: .0
    
    Ya know Gene that's an interesting question.  I've been doing alot of
    thinking about that myself.  With the clubs that most people buy today
    there isn't too much that you can do.  For example with the metal
    "woods" you can get different lofts, lies etc, but you can't change
    the buldge, roll or face angle.  But can you make it a custom club?
    I can change the flex characteristics of the shaft with trimming,
    play with the swingweight and overall weight and blah, blah.......
    But does that make it a custom club?
    
    I guess that IMHO a custom club is one that is fitted to my game.
    Maybe a Taylor Made 9.5 driver off the shelf suits me fine.  Maybe
    the head specs are fine but the dynamic gold S300 shaft will make the
    club useless to me.  So a custom club is when the specs and the setup
    of a club match the requirements of the players swing & physical
    abilities.  (just one persons opinion)
    
    
    						KO

    I second .-1...when the club is set up to the persons swing and
    physical characteristics....that's a custom club

    
    Let me see if I understand .1 and .2 correctly... are you saying that
    if you buy a club off the rack and it fits your game then you would
    consider it a custom club...!!!??? Or did I missinterpret?
    
    Gene

    speaking for myself and not .1 I have yet seen a rack that could
    tell me anything about a persons swing or physical characteristics
    :)......to me custom means it was fit to my swing and physical
    characteristics by someone who knew the game very well and also
    knew building clubs very well ala Ken Smith....
    just my 2 cents worth...
    

    RE: .3
    
    Gene,
    
    	Just to clarify a bit.  The word custom means, according to the 
    American Heritage Dictionary, made to order.  That means that a club
    off the rack is not custom from the players point of view.
    
    But I took a little license when I said that the club was set up for
    a particular players swing, physical characteristics ......... by
    expanding on that definition.  Not only is it made to order but it's
    made CORRECTLY to order.  When you buy a custom club it should be
    made to suit you the buyer.  That's not to say that you can't get the
    same club off the rack, but there (the rack) it's a crap shoot.
    
    So to sum up, a custom club is when you specifically order a club made
    for you.  I'd like to think though that if you're buying a custom you'd
    get one that was properly fitted to your swing.
    
    
    					KO

    	I MAKE CUSTOM CLUBS AND I WILL AGREE WITH THE PREVIOUS REPLIES. IN
    MY BUSINESS I MAKE CLUBS FOR THE BEGINNER TO THE LOW HCP GOLFER. THE 
    BEGINNER IS NOT READY TO SPEND A FORTUNE AT THE COUNTRY CLUB PRICES, HE
    IS ALSO LOOKING FOR SOMETHING BETTER THAN AT YOUR LOCAL KMART, AT THE
    SAME TIME HE IS GETTING SOME ADVICE ABOUT DIFFERENTS CLUBS.
    	THE LOW HCP GOLFERS IS LOOKING FOR A SPECIAL GRIP, SHAFT AND HEAD
    THAT HIS LOCAL PRO MAY NOT HAVE IN STOCK. 
    							ARMANDO
    

    
    Thanks for the clarification Kevin. I did missunderstand what you 
    were saying (I originally thought that you were saying that if you
    bought a club off the rack and it fit you and your game that it
    might be considered a custom club).
    
    I also agree with the replies, but what I was looking for (as in the
    GD article) is do you consider a Ping to be a "CUSTOM CLUB" or do
    you have to be able to have all the club variables custom fit to be
    a "CUSTOM CLUB"...? 
    
    Interesting to see that 3 of us out of the 4 people that have responded
    make custom clubs... What are some of the other thoughts out there
    about what constitutes a "CUSTOM CLUB"...?
    
    Gene

}    Interesting to see that 3 of us out of the 4 people that have responded
}    make custom clubs...


	If you accept the fact that custom maybe has changed in the way
it is perceived by most golfers then I agree that 3 out of the 4 people
make "custom" clubs......

	If you instead read some of golfs history you'll see that what
is being considered "custom" today is a mass production of specifications
that were worked out over many years of trial and error by clubmakers of
years past that were really "custom club makers"........

	Anyone can today buy all the elements, at whaterver specification
they want, then put it together and they are a "custom club maker".....

	Guess it depends on how you truly define "what is custom today..."


just my 2 cents worth

    

    
    Dick,
    
    What you stated is "exactly" what the GD article was getting at and
    this is what promted my question/title for the base note...
    
    Gene

    Gene,
       I consider that the clubs that I have are "custom made".
    I went to the factory where I spent a couple of hours in a room
    hitting balls using different shaft flexes, lengths, grip
    sizes. I was measured with several devices to help guage lie
    angle and so forth. The clubs were made up individually over the
    next month and then I returned to the factory to try them out
    and have any adjustments made if necessary. The woods are
    fantastic but I have some reservations about the irons. It seems
    to be immpossible for me to hit the 2-5 irons consistently!!!
    The normal flight path is as weak slice about 20-30 yds short and
    off the fairway into the rough or treeline. I have talked with the
    clubmaker and he has offered to modify the irons but I'm not sure
    what to do!! Maybe I will go back to a regular flex in the 2-5
    and see how that works (6-pw are also great). Back to the custom
    issue, I feel that the attention that the clubmaker has given to
    me and to the construction of the clubs has made this a truly
    "custom" experience. I am very leery of a company that advertises
    that they custom fit grip size by your glove size!! (PING) They
    have definetly redefined the term "custom-made"!!
    
    THE MAD HACKER

    RE: .7
    
    I have to agree with .10 that Ping is NOT a custom club.  Just because
    you are X inches tall and you arms are y inches long does not mean that
    your 2 iron is 39 inches and all the other ones index down from there.
    I've made sets where the long irons were to the traditional standard
    and then started working my way into the modern standard because the player
    was shortish and barrel chested and couldn't deal with the extra
    length.  And grip size based on glove size?  If I went to someone to 
    buy clubs and they measured my hand to determine grip size I'd walk
    out.  What if I hold the club in my fingers?  Doesn't that affect grip
    size?  (BTW you bet it does)  So the stuff you read in magazines that
    says send in your measurments is on the hairy edge of false advertising
    IMHO.  The ads should say 'send in twice what these things are worth and
    your measurments, and we'll send you what we have in stock.'
    
    Anyway Ping is NOT a custom club because they really do not consider
    how the player's swing, holds the club, physical characteristics (barrel
    chested, "good sized front porch...) or experience.
    
    

    minor edit to .11
    
>>  The ads should say 'send in twice what these things are worth and
>>    your measurments, and we'll send you what we have in stock.'
    
    This statement should end with :-)  
    
    The people at Ping believe that this is the proper way to fit clubs.
    There are other manufacturers that disagree but this does not mean that
    Ping is trying rip off the public.  After rereading the reply I didn't
    want to leave that impression in anybody's mind, I just forgot the
    grin.
    
    					KO
    

    I agree with the previous replys...I once just for giggles filled
    out the add in a golf mag. for the RAM WIZARD to tell me what clubs
    were best for me and the answer that came back was:
    
    		a) if you get our club x it will help you...
    
    		b) if you get out club y it will help you
    
    		c) if you get our club z it will help you...blah..blah
    
    
    	they cover all their bases and "BUYER BEWARE..."
    
    just my opinion

If you buy Ping clubs from a good pro shop you will find that the 
pro may use the height/arm length chart as a starting point but 
will evaluate how you hold the club, how you swing (and how you ought
to swing), how big you are, how hard you hit, etc. and "fit" you properly.  
He/she may even recommend different clubs.  

If you buy "custom clubs" from a good pro shop (or a good fitter) you
will get the same attention and may even get as good results.

If you "fit" yourself or go to an amateur club maker or get "fitted" by
sending your measurements through the mail, you takes your chances whether
you buy "custom made" or Ping or off the shelf.

If the choice of clubs is based on an expert evaluation of your needs, 
they're "custom fitted".  If the clubs are made to order, they're "custom
made".