Conference 7.286::golf

    Hi,
    The first Ryder Cup match was played very near to here at the Worcester
    Country Club.
    We won that year and are sending most of our team to England from
    here this week.
    Even though it is only a "bit of sterling", we will try our hardest
    to wrest it back to the colonies! The team is very republican and
    our president is Republican. This team will answer the challenge.
    Tom(also very republican)
    

    
>          <<< Note 762.2 by AYOV18::OPS "1,2,3..easy as a,b,c...!" >>>
    
>    I for one hope that Europe triumphs again, and sends those arogant
>    awful yanks back to where they belong.
>    Americans are only happy when they are bragging ,brawling,boozing
>    and war-mongering....
>    All the evils of today's society have originated in the states.
    
    	Now *there* are some coherent comments from the competition.
    
    	I wonder if perhaps you were one of those boorish Brits who took to
    	catcalling and booing during the last visit to Jolly Olde England for
    	the Ryder Cup. Or is it that you just don't feel comfortable watching
    	a sporting event unless you can riot in the stands or crush patrons
    	underfoot?
    
    	Get serious. This is supposed to be a gentlemen's game. Name
    	calling and ridiculous accusations (see the last line in extracted
    	comments) have no place in the Ryder Cup specifically or golf in 
    	general.
    
    	By the way, for those that didn't see it, Bryant Gumbel (sp)
    	interviewed the entire American Ryder Cup team Monday morning
    	just prior to their leaving for the UK. Gumbel gave them ample
    	opportunity to rattle swords and issue epithets. Wouldn't you 
    	know it -- those nasty yanks were consumately magnanimous. Imagine.
    
    	--Leo

    re: .2,.3
    
    Perhaps his goat was got by the waving of the Republican banner.
    Speaking as a Brit, and definitely not a Thatcher/Raygun lover,
    I say keep the politics out of golf, and out of this conference.
    (SA excepted from this rule !!)
    
    Let the golf do the talking.
    
    Personally, I'd like to see Europe stuff the US, but if they don't,
    it will be by playing better golf over the competition, not by shouting
    or banner waving !!! Let the best men win.
    
    Colin
    
    P.S. In the same way that not all Americans are gun-toting brawling
    Rambo's, only a very tiny minority of Brits are louts. We want rid
    of them as much as everyone else.
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    Maggie Maggie Maggie
    
    Out    Out    Out
    
    :-)    :-)    :-)

    And who says sport has nothing to do with politics??
    
    What I hoped this note would become was a (biased naturally) effort
    to evaluate the chances of the two teams - 12 super golfers versus
    12 super golfers, one proven captain versus a rookie captain.
    My bet is still for Europe, with Woosnam, Faldo, Langer, Olazabal,
    Rafferty etc. to utilise home advantage and retain the trophy -
    remember a draw will do to achieve that.
    
    My god, imagine putting Ballesteros among the etc.!!
    
    

    Has everybody quite finished with this stupidity??!! Can we all
    now get on with the topic in question and not slag off each other's
    origins!! It doesn't help foster the spirit that the Ryder Cup itself
    is meant to typify if a few spoil the conference for the majority.
    
    Let's hope we don't have any of the crowd behaviour that existed
    in 1985, even if it may have been misinterpreted in some quarters.
    
    Let the golf do the talking...
    
    
    Phil ( a pretty embarrassed Englishman over what's been said so
    far).
    
    
    
    

    
    	Lets see if we can get back on track here... Would someone care
    	to post the names of the players and captains for each of the
    	teams (I know I posted the US team members in another note,
    	but can't find it now). Can you also post just what the format/
    	formats are, how many matches, how many days do they play, etc...
    
    	Thanks	
    	Gene
    	

    
    Some info on the captains, teams and format:
    
    USA:
    ---
    Raymond Floyd (non-paying captain)
    
    Mark Calcavecchia - 29, Sony World Ranking:5, Ryder Cups:1
    Curtis Strange    - 34, SWR:4, Ryder Cup Appearances:3
    Tom Kite          - 39, SWR:6, RCA:5
    Fred Couples      - 29, SWR:13, RCA:None
    Chip Beck         - 33, SWR:10, RCA:None
    Ken Green         - 31, SWR:19, RCA:None
    Mark McCumber     - 38, SWR:17, RCA:None
    Lanny Wadkins     - 39, SWR:21, RCA:5
    Paul Azinger      - 29, SWR:11, RCA:None
    Payne Stewart     - 32, SWR:14, RCA:1
    Mark O'Meara      - 32, SWR:24, RCA:1
    Tom Watson        - 40, SWR:?,  RCA: ??
    
    
    GB & Europe
    -----------
    
    Tony Jacklin  (non-playing captain)
    
    Nick Faldo          - 32, SWR:3, RCA:6
    Ian Woosnam         - 31, SWR:7, RCA:3
    Jose-Maria Olazabel - 23, SWR:8, RCA:1
    Bernhard Langer     - 32, SWR:22, RCA:4
    Seve Ballesteros    - 32, SWR:1, RCA:4
    Sam Torrance        - 36, SWR:78, RCA:4
    Mark James          - 35, SWR:37, RCA:3
    Ronan Rafferty      - 25, SWR:34, RCA:None
    Howard Clark        - 35, SWR:67, RCA:3
    Jose-Maria Canizares- 42, SWR:61, RCA:3
    Christy O'Connor Jnr- 41, SWR:62, RCA:1
    Gordon Brand Jnr.   - 31, SWR:56, RCA:1
    
    
    
    
    Format:
    ------
    
    Friday: 4 x Foursomes - One ball per team with each player
                            playing alternate shots.
    
            4 x Fourballs - Each player plays own ball. Choose best
                            ball of each team.
    
    Saturday: As Friday
    
    Sunday: 12 x Singles
    

    
    	Thanks Phil...

    Just thought you might like to know the yardage involved...
    
    
    HOLE     YARDS    PAR      HOLE    YARDS    PAR
    ----     -----    ---      ----    -----    ---
      1       418      4        10      275      4
      2       349      4        11      420      4
      3       465      4        12      235      3
      4       579      5        13      394      4
      5       399      4        14      194      3
      6       396      4        15      550      5
      7       183      3        16      410      4
      8       460      4        17      575      5
      9       400      4        18      474      4
             ----     --               ----     --
    OUT      3649     36        IN     3527     36
    
                              TOTAL    7176     72
                                       ----     --
    
    
    Does anyone want more info on the nature of the holes??
    
    
    
    Phil.
    
    
    
    OUT      

    
    Does anybody know what the TV coverage is going to be, times, days,
    network...?
    
    Thanks
    Gene

    It's on the USA Network (Cable), with telecasts on
    Friday, Saturday and sunday (11-1 on the first 2 days, 10-1 on
    Sunday, I think).  I looked it up last weekend, highlighted
    the pages in my cable guide so I remember to turn on the VCR,
    and proceeded to forget the exact info!
    
    John
    

    I live in Geneva, am an avid golfer and read this file regularly.
    I have never responded to a note but feel compelled to respond to
    this one. I will be watching the match on EuroSport (have a dish)
    and can readily understand the "fierce competition" but believe
    it is encouraged by the UK announcing team. They seldom see US tour
    players except at the Open. They continually harp on how the "European"
    players have gained superiority over the Americans etc. Saw a previed
    of the cup match last evening where they covered the history in
    an hour. Most of it was devoted to the matches the Brits (now European)
    won in the past with some emphasis on how selected Americans blew
    matches. Frankly, it made me want to see us clean their clock this
    weekend. 
    
    A couple more comments then I will shup up. The European tour (and
    the players) is quite interesting. They play in all sorts of weather
    on all sorts of courses that the US tour player would cry about
    forever. There is a young guy, Jerry Haas, who plays regurarly.
    I asked him at the Swiss Open why. He said to learn the game better,
    and learn "trouble shots" so he would do better on the US PGA tour
    ina year or two. The Swiss Open, by the way, is billed as the second
    richest event in Europe (behind the Open). Stadler often shows up
    but few others. This year there were none. Dissapointing to say
    the least. 
    
    I look foreward to seeing the cup and to an American victory so
    at least we might shut up the commentators for a few events. With
    the calaber of the players on both sides it should be something
    to watch. Probably won't see it all as our club championship is
    this weekend. Depends on my tee times.
    
    Regards, Haskell Cehrs.

    One prediction, one comment:
    
    I believe the American players are currently in better form than
    their European opponents and that the American team will therefore
    win.
    
    Notice that the Ryder Cup is now one country against several.  Let's
    not forget that little fact....
    
    Joel
    
    

    re .14
    
    Surely this comment is irrelevant/misleading. If you want to decide
    who should have the advantage you look at the pool of players 
    available .... I would guess that the American tour is at least
    as large if not larger than the European (anyone know?). All that
    has happened since it became Europe vs. USA was to even things up
    ... before that the numerical advantage lay ridiculously in favour
    of America, as witnessed in the results.
    
    It should be very close this year as I think that the US has been
    suffering from a large dose of overconfidence for the last two
    outings. I somehow doubt if they will have that handicap this time
    around. I hope I don't detect a note of panic in the US following
    with comments about the number of countries and the notable lack
    of comment from some of the more partisan contributors to this 
    conference?! Maybe it's just my imagination!
    
    Anyway, I'm just as partisan as most, so I'll go for Europe to win
    by a whisker.
     

    
    RE: .15
    
    I think it must be your imagination. I also think a lot of people
    have stayed away from this topic because of the way some of
    the entries came across...!
    
    Let me just say that I have no doubt in my mind that the US
    with come home with a victory...
    
    Gene

    
       I'll go along with Gene on this one.   US players have been
     playing much better than their European counterparts the last
     couple of months.  I also think that Floyd has put together
     a well-blended team this year.  These guys *hate* to lose.
     The Europeans are very strong as well, and they are extremely
     well respected by golf fans in the States.  
    
    -rick_treading_very_softly_in_this_landmine_of_a_topic

    What else but to favor your local team!!!
    
    Go US, GO!!!!
    
    Tavo (Whose favorite golfer is Seve!)

    Re: .15
    
    "Surely this comment (i.e., .14) is irrelevant/misleading."
    
    More surely, .15 missed the point - my point - in .14.  And the
    point was simple.  The United States and the PGA Tour have the finest
    group of golfers in the world.  If any other country thought of
    taking its best 12 players to compete against the best 12 European
    players it would be a joke.  Thus, whatever the outcome, it is to
    the US's credit that it can even be competitive against the best
    players from all over Europe.
    
    I believe the US will win, based on current form.  But great golf
    is, I feel, what ultimately we all want to see.
    
    Joel
    

    
    An update on the first day of practice.....
    
    A heavy and blustery wind blew at the Belfry yesterday which made
    practice really difficult. Ray Floyd made an interesting quote:
    
    "It was a good test to see it this windy. We got the feel of it
    and now everybody knows what it is like to see a 5-iron go only
    130 yds." Sounds like links conditions inland! An idea of the wind
    strength was highlighted by Mark Calcavecchia. He drove the 13th
    green, all 394 yds of it, and holed the putt for an eagle two. Going
    in the other direction, he failed to reach the 8th green in two, 
    a 460 yd par four with a driver and a 1-iron!!!
    
    The pairings yesterday were:
    
    USA                           GB & Europe
    ---                           -----------
    Calcavecchia & Green          Ballesteros & Olazabel
    
    Wadkins & Strange             Faldo & Woosnam
    
    Azinger & Beck                Langer & Rafferty
    
    Watson & O'Meara              O'Connor & Canizares
    
    McCumber & Couples            Torrance & Brand Jnr
    
    Stewart & Kite                James & Clark
    
    
    I also read that Ray Floyd will play all his players before the
    Sunday singles, whereas Tony Jacklin has stated that all his decisions
    will be for the team, not for the individuals.
    
    Both sides played some fourballs and some foursomes with a little
    wager on the outcome. No details of how the play went.
    
    Glad to see that the topic has got back on an even keel, even if
    Gene, Tom, Rick, Tavo, etc. are hoping and praying for something 
    that ain't gonna happen... 8>)
    
    
    Phil. (The beers are in the fridge cooling right now!!)
      
    
    
    

    	Re .-1
    
    	Good update, keep them coming. I'm impressed by the wind speed
    showing how it changes the game. A 394 yd hole reached in 1 and
    the next less than 50 yards longer cant be reached in two. I've
    only played in wind like that once before and didn't know how to
    handle it. Keep those updates coming.....

    Here's to a European Victory and an end to the "our tour is better
    than your tour" idiocy. The truth now is golf is a world game, the 
    greats are from all over the world. In that situation you can't 
    argue that one tour is better than another because it's the players 
    that make the tournament, not the respective PGAs.
    
    The change to a European team was partly to give us a better chance,
    but also a recognition that our tour had become a European one, not
    just GB and Ireland.
    
    I think the US might get it on current form, but on paper we in
    Europe have the stronger team (I said team not tour!).
    
    Paul

    Just saw the lunchtime news bulletin...
    
    Tony Jacklin sent out the same pairings this morning as he did
    yesterday, so it looks like he's made his decision about who to
    start with. Ray Floyd, on the other hand, has changed them all except
    Calcavecchia & Green. Perhaps nobody else is willing to partner
    Ken Green, he might hit them with a club!!
    
    The wind is still blowing...gone was Raymond's visor, on came the
    cap!!
    
    
    Phil.
    
    

    
    
    I believe the world tour is in the future. These days world travel
    is common place. Many of the sports will be changing to this form
    in the future. Baseball, basketball, hockey,....   the list goes
    on and on. The world series of baseball will be just that. I see
    golf as one of the premier sports to take on this format. Whereas
    golf is already for the most part played as a global sport, I see
    a world profesional organization in the future. Then there will
    be more continents vying for the major sports avents.
    
    May the best team win...
    
    Dave

    	I think the U.S. will win simply because of the talent all the
    way thru the team.  Both teams match up well thru the 1st 6 men
    but after that it's all U.S..
    	And even though I like the U.S. playing against all of Europe,
    you shouldn't use the arguement of the size of population when
    determining why the Cup was changed to this format.  It was changed
    to this format because of talent levels, not population.  How do
    you think the world would view the U.S. if after every Olympics
    we cried to everyone about China having a larger population to choose
    it's athletes from?  Pretty badly I expect.  So please don't use
    population as an excuse for having all of Europe against the U.S.
    when we all know that it's because of the talent and level of play
    that made the decision to go to the current format.
    
    Beak
    

    Sure there weren't enough good players in just GB and Ireland to
    keep this comp going, but it was also a valid decision to make this
    a European tour team. That's basically what it always was, but until
    recently there weren't any non-GB and Ireland people to pick from.
    
    The team changed to reflect the make up of the nationalities on
    the tour.
    
    Paul

    .26 and .27 are correct, but I side with .26.  The issue is
    concentration of talent and skill.  Only one country's tour produces
    enough world-class golfers to hack it single-handedly.  Other countries
    must combine in order to compete - otherwise, the Ryder Cup would
    be structured like the World Cup, but with teams of 12 rather than
    of two.  But, of course, with a set-up like that there would be
    no competition....
    
    Joel
    
    

    We're off and running...
    
    This morning's foursomes are as follows:
    
    Faldo & Woosnam  v.  Kite & Strange
    
    James & Clark    v.  Wadkins & Stewart
    
    Ballesteros & Olazabel    v.   Watson & Beck
    
    Langer & Rafferty    v.   Calcavecchia & Green
    
    
    It's raining pretty hard this morning at the Belfry, although the
    forecast is for it to clear up this afternoon. Forecast is fine
    for Saturday and Sunday.
    
    I saw the opening hole from the first match.  Woosnam had the honour
    and spanked an iron down the right hand side. Kite drove to the
    left. Faldo & Strange played good second shots, both to the back
    fringe. Woosie then putted to 2 inches, which was conceeded. Kite
    had a run at his putt which left Curtis 2-3 feet. He was asked to
    putt....he holed it. All Square.
    
    Well it's time to sign off as I've got 6 hours today on tape and
    I don't want to get any news before viewing. I'll see you all at
    Monday's post-mortem!!!
    
    I know it's all about the best team winning....BUT.... 
    Come on GB/Europe, let's do the business!!!!
    
    
    Phil.
    
    
    
    
    

    re .26
    
    To say that a larger population (or to be more specific, pool of 
    players to pick from) does not have an effect on the strength of
    team you can put out is patently untrue. To try to justify this
    by using China as an example is comical. Let's just say that if
    there was a World Cup in Hurling next year, Ireland would win,
    no competition. They don't play Hurling anywhere else, but what
    does that matter?
    
    re .27
    
    You hit the nail on the head when you speak of 'concentration' of
    talent and skill. What is concentration, except the number of good/
    great players in a given sample size? Enough said.
                     
    Tony.
    

    After the first match between Faldo/Woosnam and Kite/Strange was
    halved, Lanny Wadkins and Payne Stewart beat Mark James and Howard
    Clark on the 18th.
    
    At this stage the third match was all square on the 17th and
    Calcavecchia/Green were 2 up going into the 17th.
    
    More as it comes through.
    
    M.
    

    With the morning results just in, the score is USA 3   Europe 1.
    
    The Spaniards eventually drew their match with Watson and Beck while
    the USA won the final match 2 and 1.
    
    I will keep this conference posted this afternoon if possible but
    I'm afraid our computer system goes down at 6 o'clock local time
    so no promises.
    
    M.
    

    This aint good. Realistically, and using the evidence of the 1985
    and 1987 matches, if Europe is to win it must build up a good lead
    in the foursomes and fourballs. Still, it's early days yet, so maybe
    things may yet turn.
    

This is a fun one! The nationalism, population comparisons, etc is inherent
in a competition defined by US vs Europe. I am a little surprised nobody has
added better weather in non-Hugo seasons and college programs to groom pro
golfers to the "who's better and why" formula.

Waw this morning's format alternate shot? The differences in pairings is
very interesting. For instance, Faldo and Woosnam combine an accurate
conservative player (Nick) with a long aggressive one (Ian). They were
matched against Tom Kite and Curtis Strange, two accurate conservative
players. If it was alternate shot (foursome?) then having two similar
players may work out because each would be comfortable with the "opportunity"
provided by his partner (Kite is probably better hitting long irons from 
the fairway with Curtis than he is hitting short recoveries he's undoubtably
face with Calcvecchia).

However if it was fourball I'd expect players of differing characteristics
to fair better. One to consistently make pars (hello Nick) and one to go
for every stick in sight (and hello Ian).

I noticed later on Calcavecchia and Ken Green were paired, which looks alot
like the not-so-hot Calcavecchia and Andy Bean pairing we saw at Muirfield
Village. Of course, Ronan Rafferty could be the designated putter for
Bernhard Langer ;-) and if Lanny Wadkins and Payne Stewart are a bit off their
games they may only see each other on greens and tees!

Either way the matches looked pretty competitive! This will be fun. And many
thanks to the European correspondents!

"That's Good",

	Eric

    The pairings for this afternoons fourballs are :-
    
    Sam Torrance & Gordon Brand Jnr.  v  Curtis Strange & Paul Azinger
    Howard Clark & Mark James         v  Fred Couples & Lanny Wadkins
    Nick Faldo & Ian Woosnam          v  Mark Calcavecchia & Mark McCumber
    Sevy Ballasteros & Olazabel       v  Tom Watson & Mark O'Meara
    
    
    As I write this, Torrance and Brand are 1 up after 8,
    
    Clark and James are 1 up after 7,
    
    Faldo/Woosnam and Calc/McCumber all square after 6,
    
    
    with the Spaniards 5(five!) up after 5.
    
    More later, M.
    

EUROPE 5   US 3
    
    Europe take all the afternoon fourballs...
    
    
    Torrance & Brand beat Strange & Azinger BY 1
    Clark & James Beat Couples & Wadkins BY 3 and 2
    Faldo & Woosnam Beat Calcavechia & McCumber BY 1
    Ballesteros & Olazabel Pulp Watson & O'Meara BY 6 and 5
    
    
    
    Some real good play in difficult conditions,Mainly by Ballasteros
    and Olazabel Who won the first 5 holes of the afternoon...
    
    
    The Americans never ahead in any of the matches looked like they
    may steal the two close matches but choked on the difficult 18th
    Calcavechia and McCumber both finding the water on their 2nd shots
    Strange and Azinger both unable to find the Green in two....
    
    
    Competition looks like going right to the nail
    Will be decided by Experience and Nerve especially under the terrible
    weather conditions........
    
    
    
    

    CONGRATULATIONS TO GREAT BRITAIN AND EUROPE FOR RETAINING THE RYDER CUP !

Commiserations to U.S.A. They put up a great show in the final day singles.
Shame about that water on the 18th :-)

Final score 14-14
    
    
Chris.
    
    

    
    Congrats to the European team for retaining the cup...!
    
    Also congrats to the US team for coming back with a tie...!!
    
    There was some GREAT golf played by all and there were some
    very emotional moments for some players from both teams...
    It was great to see that there were no poor sportsmanship
    incidences (that I am aware of any ways)...
    
    Congrats to all
    Gene

       It was quite a contest, with both sides taking something and
       neither side able to claim superiority.  For me, the best part was
       the courage and determination of players on both sides, but
       especially Christy O'Connor Jr and Curtis Strange.  It didn't
       take more than a few seconds of watching the matches to realize
       that this meant more to each of the players than any of the
       weekly Greater Milwaukee & Brussels Open tournaments that they
       play each week.
       
       The only negative aspect was the poor media coverage in the US.
       Television (the USA cable network) coverage was cheaply produced,
       and print coverage by the Boston Globe was abyssmal. A major TV
       network should have picked up the competition, and a paper like
       the Globe should have sent a reporter rather than just picking up
       wire service stories.
       
       --Mr Topaz 
                      

    
       Well if you told me that Ballesteros, Woosnam, Langer and Faldo
     would lose their matches on the last day and the Europeans would
     still win, I would have said you were nuts.  That is exactly what
     happened, as the final matches were chock full of surprises.
     
       Europe got great performances out of James, Rafferty, Canizares,
    O'Connor and Olazabal.  The only non-suprise out of that group IMO,
    was Olazabal, who is a great, great player.  The key match was
    O'Connor shocking Freddy Couples.  
    
       The US has nothing to be ashamed about in losing.  They played
    reasonably well (except for hole 18) and showed great sportsmanship.
    My favorite player is now, McCumber.  The guy is fun to watch. And
    the Ryder Cup is great golf to watch.  Congratulations to the
    European players and all their fans.  They earned the right to call
    themselves the best players in the world.
    
    -rick

    
     re. .39  
    
        Don't blame USA network for the poor coverage.  They were getting
      the feed supplied by the BBC.  Luckily for the Brits, that their
      golfers performed better than their cameramen!
    
    -rick

    
    	I'll second what Rick said. Great golf, great competition, great
    	sportsmanship, lousy coverage. But it wasn't USA Network. 
    	
    	My question for all the European noters is this: is the BBC
    	coverage always this bad? Some of the camera angles were
    	questionable, there were times when they'd show a close up of
    	a golfer hitting a chip shot and then never show you the flight
    	of the ball, and most other approach shots to the green	were never
    	seen. 
    
    	Perhaps we've been spoiled by the superb coverage of the American
    	networks, but nonetheless, it was frustrating to lose images that
    	we obviously take for granted in the United States. 
    
    	--Leo

    Rick, Gene,  you're gentlemen of the highest!! 
    
    What a weekend...you'll never see anything better than that...ever!!
    Fortunes swung every half an hour on the last day, but let's not
    forget the fantastic first two days, which were equally great.
    
    I thought USA got a great start, but Europe played brilliantly in
    the Friday fourballs. Seve and Jose-Maria were a real inspiration
    and you could see just what it meant to them. However for me the
    way Clark and James played on Saturday was true grit..Sorry JW 8>)
    
    It seems that USA are a real force always in the Singles matches
    as has been the case the last few times. A two point lead is great
    going into the last day and was it necessary!!
    
    Yesterday was a day to remember...it had everything. You can see
    why it probably means more than winning a major. It would be wrong
    to pick out individuals from either team as they all contributed
    so much. All of them are heroes and all are magnificent golfers.
    
    
    Anybody get as emotional as me yesterday? Christy and Fred showed
    us what it's all about didn't they? It was almost as if I was out 
    there with them!!
    
    I think we should ask KEN to write to the respective teams and say
    "Thanks for the memory"  8>)
    
    
    Well done USA & Europe ...you were all great!! 
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
        

    Re: .40 - LOSING the Ryder Cup?  I thought it was a tie... How can
    you lose something you don't have? The only reason the Ryder cup
    is still in Europe, is because of what the '85 and '87 teams did
    - THEY WON IT. Sure, the Cup stays there, but nobody won anything,
    except the respect of golf fans on both sides of the pond for what
    was truly one of the more memorable sporting events in recent memory.
     Fortunately for us, all of our "rookies" have been "blooded" now,
    and most of 'em will probably be on the next team.... But, Kiawah
    Island - YUKKK! Why can't we have something of this magnitude on
    Oakland Hills, Shinnecock or Baltusrol ? It is worthy of a great
    test of golf!
    
    --The Skoal Bandit

      SKOAL  -  My last thought on the weekend was that there were
         no losers so I guess I have to agree with you.  Bottom line
         is though, the cup stays overseas for the next two years.

>Note 762.40                  Ryder Cup, next weekend                   40 of 44
>ESPN::BLAISDELL "Time to eat the donuts"            19 lines  25-SEP-1989 08:08
>                           -< no losers in this one >-
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    
           As for course selection for 1991?  That remains to be seen.  
        The new course is being designed by Pete Dye who is one of the best
        in the business, so there is potential that it will be a great
        test of golf.

    
    -rick

    RE .41 and .42
    
    Having watched the matches on USA and then returned to the UK to watch 
    my friends recording of the same on the BBC - I have to make a comment  
    about the US version and defend the BBC. The problem I think lies in
    two places - firstly the BBC offerings were edited (at least in the
    evening shows) and secondly the need to have separate commentary
    supplied from the US. Since the commentary appeared to be done blind -
    ie here is the picture say something - anything (and usually anything
    was the result). Without context (ie the BBC had Peter Aliss providing 
    a gentle commentary) some of the long shots of trees, scrub or lake 
    gave little hint of what the US commentators could say - I have to
    question their professionalism because comments such as I dont know the
    purpose of this view, or the BBC seem to have gone on safari and others
    much worse show that their intent was to stir up anti-european
    feeling, ie their television coverage is poor and so are their
    golfers... Another example was the scorn with which a direct overhead
    View of the 17th green was greeted. Personally I liked the shot - there 
    were many views from the side that showed the bias of the green, and
    many attempts from these angles were shown. What was nice about the
    overhead was that it gave a proper perspective on distance from the
    hole - the use of telephotos from the side often give a skewed
    perspective - the overhead shot puts everything in context.
    
    
    On the whole I found the US coverage as blatantly nationalistic as the
    the US commentators were criticising the Europeans for. While such an
    event is bound to draw partisanship, I do sympathise with US viewers
    who were subjected to USA's coverage - it could have been done much
    much better (eg cut into the BBC commentary for a while). It is sad that 
    a great tournament such as this did not get better service from the 
    networks who vie for the trade.

    
    
    re coverage...
    
    I can't say anything about the US coverage,obviously,but what I
    can say is that the BBC coverage ,to my mind, was first class.
     
    I watched the entire last days play and was riveted to the t.v.
    I went through all the emotional ups and downs, and in the end I
    could only admire the players for their grit,sportsmanship and 
    most of all ability.Remember these guys, with probably the 
    exception of 3 maybe 4 players,are the best twelve players on either
    side of the Atlantic, and didn't they prove it.
         
           A tribute to all......
    
    				eck the golfer

    Sour grapes I reckon it is from the Americans

    re. last few.
    
    I must say that I thought that the BBC coverage was not at all up
    to their usual high standard. They didn't manage to spread the
    coverage around much and some of the shots of shots(!) were fairly
    poor. But whatever about the actual coverage of play, there was
    an enormous cock-up between the time play finished and the
    presentation ceremony. Both Peter Alliss and his anchorman 
    disappeared (I presume without notice) leaving an aerial view of
    the course with no commentary. RTE (Irish tv) had taken the show
    from the BBC with no anchorman (foolishly, in hindsight!), so we
    were left for about 10 minutes with intermittent soft music and
    the same picture! Finally, an announcer, who hadn't a clue what
    was going on, came on and said that the golf was now over so we
    could watch Tom & Jerry instead. And that was it!
    Presumably Peter and co. had decided that they had done enough 
    nattering for one day, and they were going to celebrate like 
    everyone else!
    
    No, I think the Beeb definitely had an off-day. 

    
    
      re. last few
    
     Coverage on Sunday may not of been of the standard expected but
    surely the excitement of the golf compensated for that. Regarding
    the previous note regarding the cock-up between play finishing and
    the presentation taking place, the BBC showed the grand prix from
    Portugal and then returned to the Belfry immediately the presentation
    started.
    
     The standard of golf proved that we were watching the best players
    from both sides of the atlantic and also the pressures players were
    under. At the beginning of play on Sunday I honestly thought the
    US would win outright and quite convincingly at that but the putts
    that Fred Couples and Ken Green missed on the last two greens proved
    crucial in the end along with the drives by Stewart and Calchivecchia
    hit on 18.
    
     All in all it was a great example of golf and sportsmanship at
    the highest level and the draw in the end was the correct result
    
    
            Danny (Hack,hack)

    
    I was never into the Ryder Cup for some reason but this year I decided
    to see what it was all about and glad I did. As far as I am concerned
    it is the pinnacle of competitve golf. I've never seen the players so
    emotional. So jubilant in victory and so sullen in defeat. No 80 k 
    for finishing second to take the sting out of defeat.
    
    There was one moment I will always remember. It is not Christy O'connor
    crying with joy, God bless him though. It was not a great shot in a
    pressure situation or a come back or how the U.S. boys failed so badly
    on the eighteenth. It was the look on Seve's face when Europe won the
    title. I have never seen such an outburst of emotion from a golfer. And
    it wasn't because he just won a million dollars but because he won for
    his country, for the pride, for his team. It was great.
    
    Congradulation to our friends in Europe a well played match. There are
    no loosers only winners. To get the opportunity to compete makes them
    all winners. So the cup is in Europe, well atleast we know it's in good
    hands, deserving hands, in the hands of a people who love and respect
    the game as we in the U.S. do. 
    
    We will be back in 91 not to beat Europe but to win the cup.
    
    Pete

    
    
        Can any of our golf fanatics in the States give us a little
    info on Kiawah Island where the next Cup is to be played as it's
    not a course many of us have heard of before.
    
       Also, any opinions on where it should be played next time in
    Europe. After the Spaniards performances over the weekend, I think
    there must be a possibility of it going to Spain.

    
>        Can any of our golf fanatics in the States give us a little
>    info on Kiawah Island where the next Cup is to be played as it's
>    not a course many of us have heard of before.
    
        Not much I'm afraid, since it hasn't been completed yet. As
      mentioned before, it will be a Pete Dye design. 
    
    -rick    

    re: .53
    
    The Boston Globe Sports section mentioned yesterday that there was
    serious consideration for a course in Spain as the next European venue
    for the Ryder Cup.
    
    
    						Mike

    Golf Digest this month says that Seve is pushing for a more even (like
    any thing!) sharing of the Ryder Cup wealth with the PGA's of the other
    European Countries. Apparantly, now the R&A keeps it all! If he doesn't
    get what he wants, according to G.D., he and the other continental
    pros will pass up the Cup next time. Do any of our European Chums know
    any more about this? Comments? 

    re: to Kiawah Island
    
        Isn't this a fairly new resort development off the coast of
    South Carolina?  If so, I recall seeing some footage of the Island
    last week after hurricane Hugo ripped thru that area.  The Island
    was ruffed up pretty bad.  Couldn't this possibly cause the venue
    for next year's matches to be changed?????? (the course may have
    been destroyed, or Dye's completion of it delayed for some time)

    According to the Atlanta papers, Kiawah did not get hit bad, only minor
    wind damage and flooding...............But, if you had plans to
    stay/play at Wild Dunes (Isle of Palms) , forget it! :(  I spent a week
    there last october, and was planning to return this year....sigh. 

    
      How did Hilton Head do, as far as Hugo damage??

    
    RE: .57
    
    FYI, the Ryder Cup is every two years... So, they still have plenty
    of time to get the course ready...

    
    
      Anyone care to predict who's going to win the Dunhill Cup this
    week at St. Andrews?
    
        America are the strong favourites across here. Their team consists
    of Kite, Strange and Calcavecchia (he should clear the water on
    18 this time !!). Sevvy isn't playing so that weakens the Spanish
    side, Faldo is "too tired" to play for England and is replaced by
    Howard Clark. Scotland (come on ye Scots!!!!) have Lyle(who), Brand
    and Torrance.
    
    
       I go for the USA to win beating Scotland in the final.
    
         Danny.

    
    Danny,
    
    Tell us more, just what is the Dunhill cup? how are the players
    selected? etc?
    
    Thanks
    Gene

    
      Better yet, why not start a separate topic for the Dunhill?
      
-rick