Conference 7.286::golf

    I think Hogan also talks about varying the stance from slightly
    closed with longer clubs through to slightly open for the short
    irons. Without wanting to make this sound more complicated than
    it need be, I always view the _true_ position of the ball wrt to
    the feet as at a point perpendicular to the line through the feet.
    So, by opening the stance slightly you are effectively moving the
    ball back in your stance.
    
    On the whole I wouldn't worry about it too much. "Just inside the
    left heel" is probably as good a maxim as any, give or take an inch
    or so!
    
    Paul

    Someone once gave me advice that I should place the ball in
    my stance where the club hits the ground when I take a practice
    swing. It seems to work for me, with irons, anyway. Anything to this?
    
    Patti

    
    I think you should move it back as the club gets shorter, I line up
    just inside my left heel with my driver and a bit in back of center
    with my wedge, if I want a little extra distance (between clubs), I 
    move the ball back a little more and tilt my hands forward a little.
    
    --Bob
    
    

    No, you read it correctly (Hogan, that is)
    BUT, you do get better control when 6 through wedge you play it
    back towards the middle. Break your wrists quicker to compensate
    for getting to the ball earlier or you'll "hood" the shots.
    I started doing it on a tip from a pro at Stow Acres(Dan Diskin)
    He was just walking by and said "your Ok EXCEPT....
    5 through 2 iron, I don't agree with him since you have to have
    super fast hands through the hitting "box". Unless as he says,
    "you just want to keep it in the ball park" with no fancy loft
    to it.                  Angelo
    

    re: .4
    
    Your assement of super fast hands is close to my feelings...
    Not only do you have to have fast hands but STRONG hands/forearms
    if you are going to play the ball back in your stance with the shorter
    irons...Nicklaus has ALWAYS played the ball off the left heel with
    all clubs just as Hogan says...Nicklaus also confesses to having
    weak hands...and he also recommends playing the ball in the same
    position as Hogan...it is hard to have the same swing with all clubs
    if you move the ball around all the time because you are changing
    your swing arc and plane everytime you move the ball....!!!!
    

    	I like playing the shorter irons with the ball back in my
    stance so it doesn't feel like I have to "reach" for the ball, I
    can just come down hard on it and gain distance. Before I played
    the short irons back in the stance, I was topping many or slicing
    the he(double toothpicks) out of the ball.

    re.5
    
       I agree. Strong hands are needed. I don't have strong
    hands,but you can make up for it if the timing of the "supp"
    position is correct(term from the Hogan book). 
       Something tells me the Dr,3wd to 4 I CAN"T be in the
    same position???      Angelo
    

    re: .0
    
    Hogan's book POWER GOLF was written around 1948 and a little before
    he became the best golfer of "his time"...his other book "FIVE LESSONS:
    The modern fundamentals of golf" was written around 1957 and after
    the benefit of many more years of experimentation and competition...
    I suggest you also get a copy of and read the latter as it is
    very fundamental...and these are the same fundamentals that Jack
    Grout taught Nicklaus as a youngster...guess Nicklaus had a good
    teacher but was also a good student...fundamentals do work...if
    we stick to them.....but being human...

    re: .4 and such
    
    Would someone tell me why I need superfast and/or superstrong hands
    to hit my 6 through 9 irons well if I play them back in my stance?
    I do play them back a bit, a little forward of the middle, and I
    do open my stance a VERY little bit more as the irons get loftier.
    I've found that moving the ball back gives me: less loft, better
    contact, and a slight tendency to push the shot.  If I hit it well,
    it draws right back to the middle.  Moving the ball forward with
    these irons seems to invite a pull.
    
    Since I don't have superfast hands or a conformation that makes
    me Popeye's twin brudder, I guess that I should be having trouble.
    From experience, I've found that I can cause myself the trouble
    if I move the ball forward towards my left heel for the higher irons.
    What gives?

}    Would someone tell me why I need superfast and/or superstrong hands
}    to hit my 6 through 9 irons well if I play them back in my stance?

	If it works for you stick with it....but as age catches up as
it does with all of us don't expect to continue to be able to hit short
irons well if your use to hitting down hard on them as you must with
the ball back in your stance....it takes STRONG HANDS/FOREARMS...of
course if you're able to play everyday then don't worry about it.....




}    From experience, I've found that I can cause myself the trouble
}    if I move the ball forward towards my left heel for the higher irons.
}    What gives?

    .................it is hard to have the same swing with all clubs
    if you move the ball around all the time because you are changing
    your swing arc and plane everytime you move the ball....!!!!
    



	Everyone hits the ball different...find out what works for
YOU and stick to it....there is no right/wrong just certain fundamentals
that have been proved over the years to be the same for all good ball
strikers....GRIP/STANCE/POSTURE/AIM/ALIGNMENT...other things vary but
if the fundamentals aren't there inconsistancy will be.....

    There are two reasons for placing the ball in the same location (i.e.
    off your left heel +-).  One is for consistancy.  You alway use the 
    same basic swing.  You don't have to make modifications for each ball
    placement.  The second being that if you move the ball back you are
    basically changing your club loft.  By the ball being back in the
    stance a 7 iron, become a 6 iron.  You want the ball to be in the same
    relative place to the bottom of your swing, for consistancy and let
    your clubs do the compensating for loft and distance.
    
    JS

    All of what was said in .11 is gospel according to Jack is his video
    "Golf My Way" (which I pirated ...please don't call the F.B.I.)
    I'm a beginer and the "keep it simple principal" has helped me. I've
    found the video very helpful (Jack Nicklaus is No Jack Nicholson
    though). I've got so many other things running through my head in
    preparation for the shot (leg action, loose forearms etc...) I'm glad
    variable ball position isn't one of them. Except for sand and 
    pitching shots I think that the majority of Pro's do not move the ball
    around in their stance very much...(correct me if I'm wrong)
    
    ??? Which PRO's do and don't move the ball back with club length ????
    
                            Tom F.
    

    
    I don't know which pro do and which don't change the position of
    the ball, but there was a cover page article in Golf Digest back
    a few months ago that dealt with this. It had Norman and Seve on
    the cover, one of them moves the position of the ball and the 
    other doesn't (don't remember which is which)...
    
    Gene

    I move the ball a small amount in relation to my left heel but
    it is probably only about 2 or 3 inches maximum back toward the
    center of my stance  even with a sand wedge. Sometimes when I
    am trying to play a low running shot out from under the trees
    I will play the ball off my right toe in an effort to insure I
    hit the ball on the downstroke. I used to move the ball all over
    the place in my stance and was very inconsistent in my ball
    striking. Since limiting the area that I place the ball in, I
    have started to have less miss-hits and a much more consistent
    flight pattern (fade). I prefer the fade because I hit the ball
    pretty far anyway so don't need the distance a draw gives and I
    like the way a fade drops softly onto a green. Also, when I try
    to draw the ball, it usually turns into a hook!!!
    THE MAD HACKER

    One thing I feel should be mentioned about ball position...
    The more unpredictable the shot may be, the more I'll move
    the ball back. If I am in mud, deep grass, woodsy type
    terrain... I'll go further to my back foot to eliminate
    as much of the danger as possible, by striking the ball
    first.
    I am also an advocate for moving the ball depending on the
    club I'm using. My reasons for this are ,  the very low lofted
    clubs would like to be hit even or slightly upward, the low
    lofted like 3,4,5 irons like a slightly downward hit, the
    middle irons like a 6,7,8 like a downward hit, and the 9, wedge
    and sand wedge I'll shorten the width of my stance and play
    the ball back. I've found that I get much more consistent
    results, because I'm almost always striking the ball before
    any grass or dirt gets between the club head and ball. This will
    also put some bite on the ball...
    
    	Walt

    For A good illustrated discussion of this topic, please see the July
    1988 issue of "Golf Digest". The story is called "Ball Position: The 
    Forgotted Key to Consistency".  Incidently, the instructor who authored
    the story DOES advocate moving the ball around, but its all tied up
    with variations in stance widths that vary per club, and set up
    procdure drills, so it doesn't end up as very mush movement.