Conference 7.286::golf

    JEFF
    
    I HAVE A CATALOG AND WILL ATTEMPT TO FIND IT TONIGHT AND GET THE
    INFO TO YOU TOMORROW.
    
    PAUL VICARY
    634-2029
    
    

    JEFF
    SORRY FOR TAKING SO LONG TO GET BACK TO YOU.  I HAVE FOUND THE CATALOG.
     THE PHONE NUMBER FOR CREDIT CARD ORDERS IS 1 408 373 1591. THE
    ORDER NUMBER  FOR THE GOLFERS SET  WHICH INCLUDES 4 BAG TAGS, A
    BALL MARKER, A DIVOT REPAIR TOOL (WHAT YOU WERE LOOKING FOR) AND
    A TOWEL IS KA009V.  PRICE I HAVE IS $25.  I COULD NOT FIND THE DIVOT
    REPAIR TOOL BY ITSELF.  HOPE THIS HELPS.
    
    PAUL

    This looks like a good place to ask this.
    
    Can someone out there give me the Slope and Course ratings for Pebble
    Beach and Spy Glass from the white tees?
    
    Thank You.
    
    Tom
    

Re: -.1
    
>    Can someone out there give me the Slope and Course ratings for Pebble
>    Beach and Spy Glass from the white tees?
    
     I dug out the score cards from vacation two years ago.  Here are the
     course ratings for the four best courses I've ever found in such
     close proximity to each other.

				Blue		White

	Pebble Beach		75		72.7

	Spy Glass		76.1		73.1

	Spanish Bay		74.7		70.8

	Poppy Hills		75.2		72.4

     At that time the Northern California Golf Association had not yet
     adopted the slope rating as part of their handicap computation.  Yet
     I think it would be safe to say that they all would be in the 130's.

     Larry

    I happen to have a copy of the USGA Handicapping manual handy.  There
    is a chart in there for determining the slope of a couse given the
    yardage from the tees and course rating.  If someone posts the yardages
    for those courses I could post the approximate slopes based on the
    USGA charts.
    
    
    						Mike

Re: .-1
>                     -< I canb give approximations if... >-
>
>    I happen to have a copy of the USGA Handicapping manual handy.  There
>    is a chart in there for determining the slope of a couse given the
>    yardage from the tees and course rating.  

     If no one beats me to it I will try to remember to look them up tonight.
     I am interested is there a striaght forward calculation that you could
     post to show approximate slope.  Is that calculation then used in the
     calculation of actual slope?  If so how do they adjust it?

     I'm curious about the slope calculations because I play at Stow where
     the two courses are 122 & 120 respectfully.  They are similar in
     difficulty with the North having a couple more potential carries over
     water.

     Larry

    The following are the yardages for Pebble.
    
    	Blue	White
    
    	373	338
    	502	439
    	388	341
    	327	303
    	166	156
    	516	487
    	107	103
    	431	405
    	464	439
    
       3274    3011
    
    	426	395
    	384	374
    	202	184
    	392	373
    	565	553
    	397	366
    	402	388
    	209	175
    	548	538
    
       3525    3346
       6799    6357
    
    R   75     72.7
    

	Ok, for Pebble Beach based on the information in .7:
    
    From the blues, course rating 75 and yardage of 6799, the Men's
    temporary slope is 136!  Wow!
    
    From the whites, course rating 72.7 and yardage of 6357, the men's
    temporary slope is 131!  Yikes!
    
    
    						Mike

Yes, Pebble Beach is a tough course because:

- The greens are postage stamps
- The wind blows a lot and it blows hard


By the way, it costs about $125 to play 18 holes at Pebble Beach.  If you want
to play, just call them far enough in advance and make a tee time.  Then you
show up, pay $125 plus cart fees and off you go.  I don't think I would pay
$125 to play *any* golf course ONCE (unless I was independently wealthy and
$$$ was not an issue - fat chance).

Mike

I played there a couple years ago. It was $125, but that included the 
cart, as I recall. It was worth every penny. The course was in awful 
shape, too. But what a layout! Particularly 7-10.

I'd like to play it 5 or so more times, but I can't afford THAT. And 
if I were to do it all over again, I'd try to play it around the time 
of the Crosby, because the condition is likely to be much better. The 
only problem then is the weather. 

By the way, my brother tried to get a tee time for September and 
couldn't--in JUNE!!! We called up the night before and were told to 
show up at 6AM; since it was forecast to rain, they said there'd 
probably be cancelations and we'd get out. We did get out--at 6:15. 
It's a good thing the first couple holes are the courses weakest, it 
took me that long to wake up.

    Just returned from a visit to Pebble.  Did not have time to play
    or the timing to anticipate a tee time months in advance.  The weekend
    rate is now $145 for Pebble and $95 for Spyglass.  Add to that $18
    for a cart or $30/bag for a caddie!  
    
    Being a die-hard golfer, it was like a visit to the Promised Land!
    Standing on the 18th tee and looking out over the bay, standing
    in the exact spot where Watson chipped in on 17...it was worth the
    trip even tough I couldn't play!
    
    Would I pay the cost of the green fees?  To say I played Pebble
    Beach...I'd do it once.  I would not sign up for a weekly twilight
    league!

    I have not played Pebble, but have played Torrey Pines in San Diego
    (also a public course on the cliffs of the Pacific). The views and
    a few of the holes were certifyably spectacular! I also, however,
    was disappointed with the condition of the course - in April the
    fairways and rough were shaggy and spotty; the greens slow and bumpy.
    The price however was very good!
    
    One thing was that the back tees were closed so they'd be in good
    shape for the pros. This kind of ticked me off (doesn't everyone
    want to play the Big Boy tees when they can?) as the course played
    a little easier. My question is do they let you play the full course
    at Pebble? Or are some of the tees of limits?
    
    Eric

    In regards to .12 I have played Torey Pines and found it to be very
    interesting to play a PGA course.  Not playing the "tiger" tees
    does not bother me although they were open when I played in San
    Diego and also at Pebble.  I once read that the amatuer "beater"
    is better off playing the white tees at resorts or in the few
    occassions when you can play a PGA tournament course because you
    are more likely to be facing the same type/length of second shot
    into the green.  For instance, standing on 17th at Pebble I could
    see myself hitting the green from the white tees, about 175 yards
    with a long iron.  There was no way I could reach the green from
    the blues at 205 into the ocean breeze with a wood!  
    
    In any event I agree that Torey Pines was just a public course as
    far as condition.  You wonder how the pros get themsleves up for
    playing on the not so fine tuned courses?  The basic difference
    between Pebble and Torey Pines, is that the San Diego Open has had
    numerous sponsers over the past 10 years, where Pebble was the "best
    show in golf" in the Crosby for so many years.  That and I don't
    think you'll see a major played in San Diego!  Still $12 vs $165!!!

    Well, Monterey, here I come!!
    
    I will  be  going  next week on busines to Palo Alto and will stay an
    extra day to play a round.
    
    So far, Pebble Beach won't take me as a single in the slots they have
    open (minimum twosome),  but  I  have  hopes  that from now till next
    Thursday, someone will cancel and I can get on.
    
    Just to make sure I  get  a round in the peninsula, I have a tee time
    at  Spyglass  at 10:00 AM.   Does  any  one  have  some  comments  on
    Spyglass?  How is  it  compared  to  Spanish  Bay?   I chose Spyglass
    because Spanish Bay seemed to have to many open tee times, which told
    me people prefer Spyglass over Spanish Bay.
    
    Any info on any of these courses is much appreciated.
    
    Tavo

         Bring plenty of balls (golf balls) !!! Spanish Bay is
    a relatively new course on the peninsula so it has not 
    developed a reputation yet.Spyglass on the other hand is a
    MONSTER !! There are several par 4's that are almost unreach-
    able in two, narrow fairways, lightning fast greens, not much
    rough because it is all forest or iceplant (ugh!) Pretty sure
    that a couple of the holes rate as the toughest every year on
    tour to make par on.
          The Digital Golf League will be having a tournament on
    the 17th of March if you would like to play with a bunch of
    hackers. Just contact me at BOGUSS::COOPER or phone me at
    415-373-3060. I'm the tournament director so I'm sure we can
    get you a slot if you are interested.
    
    Mad Hacker

	Hang in there.  I once played Pebble Beach as a single.  As I
	remember it you can call after 3:00 the day before & they will also
	fit you in.  Unfortunately the first time I played there we were
	on the road & I couldn't call until 4:30 and they were booked.
	(The good news is that they start a standby list if you get there
	just before they open you have a good chance to get out (some one
	always oversleeps, etc.)

	If you can't play Pebble either Spyglass or Spanish Bay are great 
	tracks.  Spyglass is the tougher course.  Spanish Bay is the closest
	to a true links course I think I could play this side of Scotland.

	The greens at Spyglass & Pebble are both very fast, Spanish Bay is
	very slow due to the type of grass.  One nice thing about Spyglass,
	you can carry your bag.

	Have you thought about staying an extra 2-3 days & playing them all?
	(Some place in here there is a trip report from a vacation where I
	played all three & Poppy Hills (another good course, but not in the
	same league.)

	Larry

    Re: .15 and .16
    
    Thanks  for   the  invitation  and  the  sugestion,  but  my  wedding
    aniversary is the 19th and we are going to celebrate it by going away
    for the weekend, so I will  be  flying back Thursday night on the red
    eye.
    
    I'll  keep on trying to get on P.B.  before I  leave  and,  as  Larry
    mentions, the day  before.    Playing  both  is  a  litle  out of the
    question (or I would say, out of my wallet, since it would cost about
    $250 for both rounds!)
    
    T

    After nineteen years, I would think that "TAVO, the Latin Lover"
    would have his wife playing golf, so he could enjoy all three courses.
    Whoops, you said "...Putter".  
                                  Happy Anniversary!
                   Big Mac

    Re:                      <<< Note 681.18 by LABC::MCCLUSKY >>>

    I am trying to get  her  hooked,  but  without  pushing her too much!
    Last summer she got her clubs  (which  I bought from NancyZ here) and
    she took  her  first  lessons.   But we could only go out twice.  The
    main problem is that the children are still young, 8 & 10, to be left
    by themselves while we go out and play.
    
    And it is "only" our 13th  anniversary but is on March 19th.  And its
    a business trip, so she is staying  home, and when I come back we are
    going away to N.H.
    
    Thanks for the note, Big Mac.
    
    Tavo

    My nine year old has his own clubs.  My 27 year old, plays Scratch, and
    started when he was 10.  My 30 year old, is a gorilla and hits the ball
    300 yds with driver, 5 iron or putter, but then he works for Amdahl.
                                  Big Mac

    Re:                      <<< Note 681.20 by LABC::MCCLUSKY >>>

    My kids have clubs too!    But  I  have only taken them to the range.
    Maybe I'll take them to Stowcowpasture, I mean, Stoaway this summer.

    I GOT ON!!!!
    
    I just called again and this time I had no problem getting a tee time
    at Pebble Beach.  And it  is  early  enough  (7:30 AM) to give me the
    chance of playing  another round that afternoon (in a more reasonable
    priced course) before I take the red-eye at 8:00 PM.
    
    Somebody in my  group  recommended  a  course  which  was  just  also
    mentioned in the Santa  Clara topic:  Pasatiempo.  I think Santa Cruz
    could be on my way back to the airport.  I'll give them a call when I
    get there.
    
    BTW: P.B. reservation number is 800-654-9300
    
    Here I come!!!!
    

      Tavo,
    The phone number for Pasatiempo is 1-408-426-3622. It is located
    just off of highway 17 north of Santa Cruz. If you take highway
    1 back from Monterey then go north on 17 at S.C. it is only a 
    little way up the hill. I believe it is an Alister Mackenzie
    course also. Green fees are in the range of 50-60 bucks.
    
    Mad Hacker    

	Where are you flying out of, you could be cutting it close?  But
	then again some times a man's got to do what he's gotta do.
	You should not give up on Spy Glass too fast.  Last time I was
	there (2 years ago) you could walk.  Greens fees then were only $60
	and a great value for the money.  If money's a problem skip your
	first round when you get back here, you won't be sorry.

	Larry

re: .22 - Mad Hacker

Thanks a lot for the info.

re: .23 - Larry

I'm flying out  of  San  Francisco International at 8:00 PM.  With a 7:30
tee time at PB,  I could do a 1:30 at other place and have enough time to
get to the airport.

Spyglass  is  $95  and yes, you can walk,  so  it's  $30/40  higher  than
Pasatiempo.  But you may be right, I may  not have another opportunity to
play it.

Tavo

    A quick review of my trip to Pebble Beach.
    The place  is beautiful!  but my golf wasn't.  Nevertheless I enjoyed
    playing it.
    
    It isn't until the 4th hole that you get by the sea, and then you get
    punched by the beauty  of  it.  The course from the white tees is not
    long, 6357, but the greens are post stamps and ultra-guarded.  I only
    hit one in regulation.  Happy  to  say that I did put my ball about 7
    feet from the pin on the 7th  (103  yards  par 3 directly towards the
    ocean) and that I clear the cliff with the three wood on the 8th (but
    it was my 3rd shot), but I didn't do  very  well  on the other famous
    hole the 18th putting my first tee shots at the rock by the beach.
    
    The round was slow,  about  5  hrs.,  so  I  didn't have time to play
    Spyglass or any other course, so instead I decided to treat myself to
    a wonderful lunch at  The  Lodge, (calamari steak!) and chip and putt
    18 holes in a small 9 hole they have in front of Pebble Beach.
    
    Definitely it was worth the $135+cart to  play PB once. Twice?  I may
    be push into it.
    
    Tavo
    
    P.S.  I may be going  back  there  sooner  than  I  thought!  Another
    business trip is on the making.  So  I  may  get a chance at Spyglass
    after all.

    
    	Can someone post directions to Pebble Beach from 101. I'd greatly
    appreciate it.
    
    Thanks,
    John

    To reach Pebble Beach from 101, take highway 156 west to highway 1.
    Go south through Monterey and then take the 17-mile drive exit, when
    you get to the toll booth, the ranger will give you a map (and take
    a few bucks for driving on 17-mile drive). This is also how you get
    to Spyglass, Spanish Bay, and Poppy Hills. Have a great time !!!!!!
    
    Mad Hacker

	Pebble Beach is closer to the 17 Mile Drive entrance near Carmel,
	Spanish Bay near the Monterey Entrance.  Spyglass is sort of in
	between.  I can't remember which way is the fastest to Poppy Hills.

	The drive down 17 Mile drive can be quite slow, traffic can be heavy,
	and you can get stuck behind sightseers.  If you are trying to make
	a tee time give your self some extra leeway & use the nearest entrance.

	If I remember correctly you can get a credit for your toll for 17 Mile
	Drive at the course.  You should also know that the toll is for the
	whole day.  My wife would drop me off, go shopping, & come back later
	to pick me up.  All you had to do was show them your receipt.

    Since the clubhouse's for the four courses are about 1 mile from each 
    other it hardly matters doodily which exit you take off of 1 to get
    on 17-mile drive. Just don't drive through downtown Monterey !!!
    
    MAd HAcker