Conference 7.286::golf

    Can I leap in here and refer to my 41.104.
    
    These two questions are quite related.
    
    (also if I cheat and ask the question in two places, maybe I get
    more chance of an answer).
    
    Michael.
    

    	You certainly should gamble more hole by hole.  For instance,
    if your opponent is on the green in 2 within 10 feet of the cup
    on a par 4 hole, and you have already hit 2 shots and have a shot
    that is a real gamble to get on the green, take the gamble.  If
    you do not, and play it safe, your best score would be a 4, and
    that's only if you hole out from the fairway.  Really your best
    score would be a bogey, and your opponent would only have to 2 putt
    from 10 feet or closer for a par to win the hole.
    	Remeber, in match play, you start each hole at even, 0, with
    your opponent, plus handicap, if any.  You can take a 10 on the
    1st hole, and your opponent a 4, but you are not down by 6 strokes,
    just by 1 hole.
    
    Beak

    
    If you have *very* good mental control, I agree with Beak, take
    chances that you might not normally take. Using the last scenario,
    if you do not put that 3rd show on the green, there is *no* pressure
    at all on your opponent. This is assuming that the gamble was over
    a pond, trap, or whatever. If you now have to take *another* stroke
    because of the hazard, your opponent can three putt and still win
    the hole. I would still play the hole the way you normally would,
    especially if it's early. Sure, if your down by 2 with 2 to go,
    you might want to let out some shaft.
    
    Taking that 7,8,9 or whatever on a hole may likely mess you up mentally
    for the next hole or two also. If your playing your game, whether
    it be par or boggie golf, get yourself in a position to win the
    hole. Three putting from 10 feet *has* been done once or twice before!
    Make your opponent beat YOU, don't beat YOURSELF.
    
    Smitty

    I will give an example of strokes for a four ball match for information
    and to illustrate a gripe I have against USGA match play rules.
    After all handicap computations (85%,slope,diff etc) are done here
    are four hypothetical players with handicaps (9 holes):
    
    SMITH	FENNER		LYNCH		HUTTON		holexxdiff
hcap  4	           8 (-4)         12 (-8)	   13 (-9)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
s=stroke           s               s                s              1	3
                                   s                s              2	5
                                                    s              3	9
                                   s                s              4	8
                   s               s                s              5	1
                                   s                s              6	6
                   s               s                s              7	2
                                   s                s              8	7
                   s               s                s              9	4
         
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
    
    This is all fine if Smith and Fenner are partners, Lynch and Hutton
will get their strokes on the most difficult holes.  However, if Fenner
    and Lynch team up then they give a stroke to Hutton on the easiest
    holes.
    
    The reason for this is KISS.  It is simply a lot simpler to just
    assign strokes once off the best player.  It seems like the fair
    way to do it for four ball is to compute it so that strokes are
    always given on the most difficult holes.
    
    I know.  The traditionalists will say leave it alone.
    
    bill

    I usually give 5 or greater strokes per 9 during the DEC league
    play. When I am aware of the stroke holes and match status etc.,
    I put additional pressure on my game... with disasterous results.
    If my mind remains on making the best "shot" I can, and think only
    of smooth swing mechanics/tempo, I'll end up playing very close
    to my handicap +/- a stroke or two. Usually shooting your handicap
    will keep you close. 
    
    I agree there are times to gamble, but I've learned that if you're
    patient and stay close, the opponent won't always finish the hole
    as well as he/she started it. Making a risky shot from the woods
    and not succeeding can really linger in your mind...
    
    If in your heart you feel negative about a shot, (usually you don't
    feel sooo negative till you're on your backswing!) then pick something
    you'll have a good chance of succeeding with. Don't let your nerves
    get too riled up early, cause later when the pressure builds they'll
    do all kinds of "funny?" things to a swing/putt ;) .
    
    good luck, beat the course, stay cccccc-alm ...
    
    	Walt

    One secret in match play that can be helpful; early in the round,
    give your opponent short puts, especially if they are meaningless.
     In the later holes make him/her put everything into the cup.
    
    I've also heard that in match play you should position your ball
    so that you are first ot play an approach shot into the green (ie.
    on a par 4, do not outdrive your opponent).  In effect, your opponent
    may feel a little more pressure to put his/her ball inside of you.
    
    Also, never...never watch your opponents swing.  What his ball,
    not his swing.
    
    And before I forget, know the rules.  Not so much for what your
    opponent is not allowed to do, but for what you are allowed to do
    (ie. relief from a road, imbedded ball, etc).
    
    Rich

>    One secret in match play that can be helpful; early in the round,
>    give your opponent short puts, especially if they are meaningless.
>     In the later holes make him/her put everything into the cup.
    
         Ah, but make them putt the first short putt on that 1st hole
       when the nerves haven't settled down and every stroke is an
       adventure.  They miss and you may want to employ the strategy
       of making them putt everything for the entire match.  They make
       it, then you still can go to strategy #1 plus you have a good
       read on what kind of competition you will have.
    
    -rick

>    Are there any special strategies used when in match play competition?
    
>    Do you still play the course and make them beat you with birdies?
    
The greatest matchplay golfers ALWAYS played the course, not the 
opponent. It's hard to do, I know (I still can't block out the surges 
of hope and desperation I experience watching the fortunes of my 
opponent!). But playing the course is without question a proven 
matchplay winner (assuming you don't have a horrible round anyway).

Take the example given in one of the replies to your note--an example 
used to illustrate why you should take greater chances:

If your opponent is ten feet from the pin and you're a hail-Mary from 
the green, no doubt he's thinking "This hole's mine!" Let's look at 
the options and reasonably possible outcomes from here, listed in 
order of probability:

1) you go for broke:
	a) you miss the shot (remember, it's not ordinarily within
	   your powers to  pull it off) and lose the hole

	a) you hit the green
		1. two-putt and lose
		2. make the putt and halve
		3. make the putt and lose
		4. make the putt and win

2) you play it safe:
	a) hit the next shot on the green
		1. miss the putt and concede the hole
		2. make the putt and lose
		3. make the putt and halve
		4. make the chip and halve
		5. make the chip and win

Neither option offers much chance of halving the hole, let alone 
winning it. Going for broke gives you a better chance, but hardly 
a good one. (One in twenty versus one in a hundred.) But the 
psychological effects are clearly in favor of playing the course.

If you miss your miracle shot, as you surely will, you go to the next 
tee "in your pocket," feeling totally whipped. If you're lucky enough 
to hit the green, chances are you'll be a long way from the pin so 
outcome #1 is by far the most likely; in which case you feel 
dissapointed having made a great shot in vain. The other extremely 
remote possibilities still include a possible negative.

If you play it safe, you have essentially conceded the hole without 
actually giving up. No matter what happens, you can't lose this hole 
any more. No rollercoaster ride. If you make bogey, you have done 
well (no miracle, just good solid play); even though you lose the hole, 
you go to the next tee with a positive frame of mind. If a miracle
happens, you reap the harvest without betting your soul for it.

And that's the point. Play within yourself and play the course and the 
match will take care of itself--in your favor.

Now, if I can sneak this shot between those two trees, I just KNOW I 
can get it close to the green and maybe pull out a halve....some 
lessons are easy to teach and impossible to practice.

      RE: -1
    
             Good advice. I play in the C flight in the Maynard DEC Golf
    League. After a couple of years, I always play the course. Because
    the folks (and I include myself) are not the best of golfers, what
    looks like an obvious loss can often turn into a win and at least a
    halve. I can remember many, many times where being on the green in
    regulation and thinking, ah, a easy win and 3 or 4 putting only to
    tie or lose.
     My philosophy is to play the best I can given the conditions. I've
    found that playing to my handicap usually produces a good chance to
    win the match. I don't worry about strokes given or received until
    after the match is over. Also, as mentioned before, never watch my
    opponents swing. 
     I suppose that if I were in the A flight, my strategy might change,
    but I am not that accomplished and trying to play within my limits
    is difficult enough without adding any pressure.
    
    
                      Ken

    	We are entitled to our opinions, but I disagree with .9.  You
    can't play my scenario safe and get a bogey as you stated, without
    chipping it into the hole, in which case you stand a chance of halfing
    the hole anyway.  If you give up the hole by plaing it safe, it's
    just like giving your opponent a 1 hole lead no matter where the
    handicap holes are.  You just can't afford to do that.  You play
    the course in medal play, and your opponent in match play.  It really
    is that simple.  I know that if I'm playing in a medal play tournament
    and I have a downhill 10 foot putt for birdie, I'm going to try
    and make it.  The biggest thing in my mind would be to not leave
    it short.  On the other hand, if I'm playing in a match play tournament
    and my opponent has a bogey putt, I'm going to just try and 2 putt
    the sucker cause I'll win the hole, and winning a hole in any match
    play tournament, will give you more confidence and a bigger edge,
    than going for the bird and 3 jacking it for a half.
    	And .10 is right when he mentions playing in a "C" flight
    tournament.  I play in the WFO DEC league and we have 3 flights,
    A, B and C.  I play in the A flight where I'm pretty confident that
    95% of the golfer will only 2 putt 99% of the time from 10 feet,
    where as in C flight I'd bet that 75% would probaly 3 putt 50% of
    the time.  This is not meant to be a knock on C flight golfers at
    all, just that knowing your opponents capabilities have a lot to
    do with the decision as to whether or not to gamble.  Then again,
    If your a C flight golfer, the odds of making the gamble pay off
    or not are probably less in your favor than an A flight golfer.
    
    Beak

    
    re.7 & 8
    
     First when you are playing a match the hole is not through until the
    ball is in the cup and if you are going to give an oponnent a putt
    on number one then you should give him all the putts withhin the same
    distance from the hole because he is probably giving you the same
    putts. To employ that in your stratergy is not in true spirit of the
    game. Win with your good play not with deseption and tricks. When
    winning becomes first and foremost and at all cost it stops being a
    game. 
    
     Point: I playing a match with a fella and I ask him to move his ball
    mark out of my line and he does. I miss the putt and he is putting for
    the match. he forgets he moved his ball mark and places his ball down.
    before he picked up the mark I told him he needs to move his mark back
    to the original spot. I could have let him putt take the two stroke
    penalty and won the match. he putts and wins the match. You know what I
    said, " good putt ". We shook hands and he knew what I could have done
    and respects me for it and that in my book is the mane of the GAME.
    
    Pete
    

    
     Re: .12    To "gimme" or not to "gimme"
    
        You use the words "deception" and "tricks" to describe a basic
      strategy in match play competition.  What is so deceiving and
      tricky about seeing if your opponent is going to have trouble
      with the short putts or not?  Short putts are a part of the game.
      Some players will never miss, others (like myself lately) have
      trouble with them.  If your opponent is in the latter category,
      and you do not make him attempt those shots, then you are
      potentially giving your match away.  

        Please spare me the lecture on sportsmanship and gamesmenship
      and the "spirit" of the game. Believe me, I respect my opponents 
      and have never pulled out some obscure rule on them to penalize
      them, or used the old "Do you inhale or exhale when you come through 
      the ball" quote on them.  What you and I are talking about are
      apples and oranges.  

-rick

      Ps.  And you are giving your opponent two footers the whole match.
          All of a sudden he is facing a fast, two foot downhill putt 
          with a severe break for a win of the hole and match.  What
          are you going to do now?

    RE-1
    
    
     My point is that if you are going to give a putt of two feet in the
    match then give it all the way through. if you are going to putt out
    then putt out all the way trough. to give someone a putt with the hope that
    it will later screw him up is not stratergy it's deseption. I know
    short putts are part of the game so why not putt them out all the way
    through. let's face it that train of thought is bull. 
    
    gimmies are the same a mulligans in my book they don't exsist
    
    

    re .13
    
     what do you do now?  don't give the two footers from the beginnig of
    the match.
    
       

    
         Ok, you make your opponent putt everything out throughout 
        the match.  He/she has got a simple one foot no-brainer 
        to win the last hole and the match.  According to your
        rules, they would be forced to putt.  I would give them
        the putt and match.  Sorry, but the situation dictates the 
        strategy and in this case, if you want to be a true sportsman.
    
         When you get a chance, you should see some Walker Cup 
        matches or your local State Amateur finals.

    -rick

    
    	Just to put my quick 2 cents worth in here (I am trying to catch
    	up on the notes since I have been on vacation for the past two
    	weeks)... 
    
    	I agree totally with Rick's "strategy", give them the short
    	ones early in the round and make them finish later... Used
    	often by the late Bobby Jones...

    re:16
    
     I guess we feel differently about the issue so what the heck you to
    yours me to mine. Hope I didn't cause any hard feelings.
    
    Pete

    
>     I guess we feel differently about the issue so what the heck you to
>    yours me to mine. Hope I didn't cause any hard feelings.
    
>    Pete

         No hard feelings Pete, unless of course I happen to play you
       in a match in the future.  Then you are going to get all upset
       when I start giving you some short ones.  ;^}
    
    -tricky_and_deceitful_rick    

    	One answer could be not to accept when your opponent gives you
    short ones early in the match.  Say thank you and start to putt
    it anyway.  If he doesn't say anything fine.  If he says either
    I give it to you and you have to pick it up, or you have to putt
    it and it counts, putt it.  If you pick them up early in the match
    and then complain about it late in the match because now your opponent
    make you putt one, who is really to blame but yourself.  You probably
    wouldn't have accepted the short putt early on, unless you were
    at least a little unsure of yourself to begin with.  And odds are,
    if the putt really meant something, your opponent wouldn't have
    given you the putt anyway, so you should always putt them out.
    
    Beak

You have to be very careful about putts that are given to you in match play. If
you putt when your opponent has given it to you, you lose the hole (according to
some goofy rule)!  Yes, that's right, if you putt when your opponent has conceded
the putt, you lose the hole.  I am not sure of the rule number (and I don't know
if it has been changed) but it happened in a college match about 6 years ago
(not to me but to someone on my team).

I think the reasoning behind it is you are considered to be practicing during
the round.

Of course, my match play rules are a little rusty because I only do medal play
these days.  Count'em up and he with fewest strokes wins.

Mike

    Mike, you may be right about that rule when playing in a match play
    tournament.  My Dec league though, is match play, but we also have
    handicaps.  If we played by that rule, then it would be to my
    advantage, and my opponents disadvantage, for me to give him a 20
    footer for par if I already had a birdie, just so his handicap would
    be lower the next time I played him.  
    	I guess playing in this type of league offers you all sorts
    of ways to get the handicap up if you chose to.  In general I give
    my opponents anything inside of 2 feet, but give them the choice
    of putting it without losing if they miss it.  The league is really
    just for fun and competition, without monetary rewards involved.
    All that is envolved is a trophy and bragging rights for next year.
    
    Beak

    I believe that the USGA rules state that when making a concession,
    you should physicaly remove the ball. Concession cannot be declined
    or withdrawn.
    Once that is done there can
    be no other play until the hole is over. Once the hole is finished
    you can putt the ball-"the player may practice putting or chipping
    on or near the putting green of the last hole played"-rule 7-2.
    In the Maynard DEC league if you stroke a putt that has been given,
    you lose the hole. That rule was made because some players were
    doing it to give their partner a line even thought the putt was
    conceded so that the partner would not see the line. The commitee
    felt that that violated the spirit of the match.
    As far as handicaps go, they should be calculated on the scores
    as determined by the match and that includes any concessions.
                      

    RE -1
    	Those, in my opinion, would then not reflect true or accurate
    handicaps.  Handicaps are meant to determine the actual or as close
    to possible as you can come to it, abilities of players, so that
    matches can be played in an equal fashion between all levels.  But
    someone with a 9 handicap for 9 holes, who is frequently given 10
    foot putts and greater, because he is already out of the hole, is
    not a true 9 handicapper and will be penalized for something he
    has no control over.  If he were allowed to refuse the 'gimme' of
    a 10 foot putt and simply putt out, at that level, he would probably
    make no more than 1 or 2 out of 10.  This would have an effect of
    raising his handicap 1 stroke and possibly 2.
    	Now some people will tell you that they know a player, who when
    already out of a hole, will deliberatly miss a putt in an effort
    to raise his handicap.  This may be true, but those people are far
    fewer in number, than the people who will always give it their best.
    Your leagues way, hurts the people who always give it their best
    and simply stops the few people who would abuse the system the other
    way.  This isn't meant to be a knock on you at all.  I'm sure you
    are not soley responsible for your leagues rules, and whatever group
    of people did formulate your leagues rules, did so for a reason,
    but just a general comment, based on the those rules.
    
    Beak

If I may drop (within 2 club lengths) a match play comment ;-) ...

I usually fair quite well in match play by playing the course and
worrying about my own game.

I focus on what I need to do to score and refuse to even attempt hero
shots that allow my opponent an easy win. Thus I use a 3-wood or iron
on narrow or short holes, I resist playing needle-threading pin-seeking
fades out of the woods, I leave pitch shots to a tight pin on the green
(ensure I'm long not short), I leave long putts below the hole. With this
plan I am seldom no worse than bogey with good par chances. I'm in the
hole until the very end. (Unfortunately, the skill testing hero shots
are irrestible during my normal play!) 

For me, the problem with conceding putts early is that it places some of
my focus on my opponent's play when my focus should be positively placed
on my own play. I find myself postulating on what happens if he blocks one
into the woods or yanks a tap-in ... then it's my turn to hit and all I
can think of are blocks and yanks! There is also the chance that my
contrarian opponent will concentrate and putt *better* when he catches
the "concedes" game (maybe if left alone he'll complacently miss one).

Perhaps not for everyone, but this works well for me.

	Eric
    

    
    
      I have been discussing this issue with my partner in the knockout
    tournament we are currently playing in.  His comments and suggestions
    I don't agree with.  Iprefer not to play head games and ignore all
    that I am allowed ( you can't ignore a gimme ).  But my defense
    against the "gimme" is a half-hour on the practice putting green,
    once I have the confidence there match play almost doesn't enter
    into it.
    
       But there are legitimate strategies.  Our last match, we played
    two of the big gamblers in the club ( they play $100+ Nassau, etc.),
    but we wouldn't play for money.  They played against each other
    and ignored us.  They lost 4 - 3.

    	I guess I have to better define the strategy I use and put in
    here earlier, when in match play.  I did say take the gamble and
    try some shots you normally wouldn't try.  But only when the situation
    calls for it.  And in no way, was I referring to trying to thread
    the needle out of the woods with a 2 iron that needs to slice 45
    yards and go 210 yards to the green.  Just that there are a lot
    of times when I opt to play a safe shot, when I'm playing medal
    play, that when playing match play, and the situation calls for
    it, I'll instead take the gamble, and go for it.  Simple as that.
    I too, on a narrow driving hole, will take out a 3 wood or 2 iron
    and play it safe.  Actually, there's no gamble on tee shots.  Your
    opponent really doesn't have a huge advantage over you on any hole
    before you've both hit 2 shots.  Unless of course it's a hole-in-one
    on a par three!!!  :-)  :-)
    
    Beak

I've been busy so I haven't had a chance to reply but have been watching this
disucssion with interest.  Last year was my first year in the Maynard league 
over time I've developed the following philosophy.

1. Your primary opponent is the course.  Some days you'll play great & loose
   to someone with the hot sticks.  Other days you may play poorly and still
   take the majority of the points.  Don't try to make shots that you can't
   make with a high degree of certainty (like 80%) otherwise you'll just be
   giving away points.

2. Know where you stand.  That means knowing where you are giving strokes
   (unfortunately I've yet to receive strokes in a match).  It also means
   knowing how many strokes each player has taken.  When the situtation calls
   for it then I adjust my play accordingly.  A couple weeks ago I was 20ft.
   away & faced a side hill putt for birdie.  My opponets were 3ft. & 10ft.
   straight up/down hill.  Since it was highly likely one of them was going
   to make birdie I made sure that my putt wasn't short.

3. Know your partner's game.  If your partner is having a bad hole it means
   that you have to play more solidly to make sure that your team doesn't
   give the hole away.  On the other hand if your partner is a good putter
   and has a 4 ft. putt for the half you may want to take the risk and try
   to make that 20 ft. putt for birdie, however if your partner was out of
   the hole you should definitely only lag it up close to ensure you can
   get the half.

4. Most matches are won on the putting green.  So work on your putting game
   so that it is solid, built on good mechanics.  You must also come to
   grips with the pressures of putting in match play.  One thing is to
   always putt out in your casual rounds so that those 3 footers don't look
   so intimidating when they are for the half.

However given all the strategy I would still to prefer to be lucky than
just good.  This year my partner & I have been playing pretty steady but
our games have not matched up well.  We either play the same hole well or
the same hole poorly.  Last year we seemed to alternate good holes.

Larry

PS. Last year in our league if you halved all your matches you would have
    made the playoffs.

    Just so I have this straight (as I have a final match to play in
    a two-ball tournament and my opponent likes to play head games
    and not tell you what the rules are, even if you ask if her 
    before you do something), if your opponent gives you the putt,
    do you have the option to say no thanks? (And if you must take
    the gimme, can you putt the ball for practice, provided that
    there are no local rules disallowing this?)
    
    

    re: -1
    
    I may be wrong but...
    
    I always thought you could finish out a hole in match play, even
    if your opponent had conceded a putt.  What you did had no bearing
    on your score towards the match i.e. even if you miss the conceded
    putt, it still counts as in.
    
    re: handicap scoring
    
    When figuring a handicap,  there are no 'gimmmes'.  You must hole
    out to submit a score (USGA anyways).  Therefore, you cannot 
    stroke control an opponent by giving him putts.  The handicap
    committee  of your league should have rules in place to prevent
    bloated handicaps.
    
    Dan
    

    As I remember, the USGA accepts match play scores for handicapping
    purposes. This includes concessions. You do not have to hole out in
    match play for handicapping.          
    
    When you are out on the course you should always put down the score
    that you got on the hole, including concessions. You should not cause
    undue delay by practicing on the hole just played. The stroke
    controling (throwing out anything over what you are allowed) should be
    done in the club house. When you score an eight, put it on the card
    (as much as it stings) and do not say I can only take a six.