Conference 7.286::golf

    
    My only guess would be that the seniors are not hitting the ball
    as far as they did when they were a little younger and are thus
    having the lofts changed on their irons so that they will still
    seemingly get the same distance with a particular club as they used
    to get...

    
    Gene

    -.1
    
     there is only so much you can do with the loft on a club. there are
    restrictions on loft and they are very tight. when they say they are
    stenghtening the short irons what they are doing is moving there hands
    forward thus closing down the face of the club and reducing the loft.
    if , as a younger man one of the seniors hit his wedge 120 yds and now
    finds he can only hit it 105 he can move the hands forward and bang
    120.
    
    pete

    	What Pete said in .2 is correct.  By moving your hands more
    forward of the ball position, you actually change the standard loft/lie
    of the club, allowing you to hit the club a little further.  But,
    and this is a big but, you lose the height you were able to get
    on the shot with a regular stance/lie.  You also would lose some
    of the spin on the ball, therefore making the shot harder to control.
    
    Beak

    
    RE: .2
    
    I beg to differ. (but I could be wrong) The loft on the irons can
    be changed by bending them. To the best of my knowledge there are
    no restrictions as to what loft a certain club has to have....!
    If you can point to where this information MIGHT be I would love
    to hear about it...
    
    
    Thanks
    Gene

    re: .3
    I'm familuar with this...it's calledt a knock down shot...
    
    re: .4
    
    	I woundered the same thing but don't build clubs so wasn't
    sure if there were restrictions....so guys actually change their
    lofts so much they get 2-3 clubs more distance with them...they
    turn 7 irons(140-155) into 4 irons(185-200) just by changing lofts
    so I didn't really think there were restrictions...

    According to rule 4-1 there are NO restrictions on the loft of a club
    with one exception.  Section D says:
    
    	"The clubhead shall have only one face designed for striking the
    	 ball, except that a putter may have two such faces if their
    	 characteristics are the same, they are opposite each other and 
    	 the loft of each is the same and does not exceed 10 degrees."
    
    This is the only mention of loft.  Therefore bending the club to
    decrease the loft to "strengthen" it is allowed.  You must also adjust
    the lie of the club also.  I've seen clubs with a strong loft without
    the lie adjusted and it was strange to say the least.
    
    
    
    						KO

    well i stand corrected on the loft subject. it seems funny to me though
    that one would take a five iron and change the loft to a 4 iron why not
    just hit a four iron??? i guess i could change the loft of my seven iron
    to a three iron so i can hit a seven iron 200 yds. i must be missing
    something here. but thanks for the correction on the loft issue i must
    have dreamed that one up. sounded good though.
    
    pete

    
    Let me see if I can add just a little insight here...
    
    In general a 5 iron has between 27 and 31 degrees of loft and there
    are about 4 degrees difference between consecutive clubs (5 iron
    at 28 degrees, 6 iron at 32 degrees, 7 iron at 36 degrees, etc).
    Now an average/good player will hit each consecutive club "about"
    12 yards further (6 iron - 165 yards, 5 iron - 177 yards) if somebody
    had the need they could adjust the loft on the 6 iron two degrees
    and hit it about 171. Now the subject matter of the base note
    had to do with the seniors adjusting the loft a little stronger,
    well they only need to adjust them a couple of degrees to get
    the yardage they used to get when they were younger (good for the
    head game).
    
    I know of people that have had their lofts adjusted strong "JUST"
    to screw up their oponents when they ask them what club they hit...!!!
    
    Gene

    What about this theory (largely one I've just made up...):
    
    Assuming your good enough to not worry about getting the ball into
    the air and can happily get enough spin on it anyway, would there
    not be an advantage in control (due to the shorter shaft) to be
    gained if you hit your de-lofted 7 iron the distance you would have
    used a 6 for.
    
    I'm sure there must be some logical reason for it. If it was just
    to get the distance you used to get, then I don't think they'd do
    it - they're pros, they know it's "how many" not "how".
    
    Paul
        

    
    Oh ya, one other thing I forgot to mention. If you find that
    with most of your clubs that you do get about 12 yards difference
    in distance between consecutive clubs, but only a few yards
    difference with with one club. Then that clubs loft could be
    off a little (to close to the same loft as another club).
    
    Example:	You  hit your five 177 yards, the six 165 yards, the
    		seven 153 yards, the eight 133 yards, and the nine
    		129 yards. This indicates that the loft on the eight
    		is weak and close to that of the nine... It can be
    		adjusted...
    
    Gene

    
    RE: .9
    
    Paul,
    
    "In theory" if you use a slightly shorter club you will gain some
    controll, but you will also lose some distance. Thus if you changed
    the loft of your seven iron to be the same as your six iron you
    would still get a little more distance with the six due to the �
    inch longer shaft...
    
    "EVERYBODY" knows it's how many and not how, but EVERYBODY still
    tries/wants to hit it further...!
    
    Gene
    

    	I'm not positive, because I don't have my rule book in front
    of me, but I'm pretty sure it is illegal to 'bend' a club to make
    it perform differently than it was intended to.  Should you however,
    go to a pro shop or anywhere where they do club fitting/adjusting,
    you could, I'm sure have adjustments made.  If not, you could at
    the very least, have a set of clubs made for you, that have stronger
    lofts than normal.
    
    Beak

    
    It is without a doubt "NOT" against any rules what so ever to
    have your loft or lie changed or your clubs....! You can NOT
    have a club that is adjustable (e.g. those clubs that can simply
    be adjusted on the course to whatever loft you want). If you don't
    have a rule book handly call your local pro shop...
    
    Gene

    How would one measure loft on his clubs if the club itself doesn't
    indicate it.  I asked myself this question when another note talked
    about non regulation pitching wedges with different lofts (without
    the flange).  I have one of those and couldn't do without it but
    cannot tell what loft it is.
    
    I am guessing that a pro shop has such an instrument.  What could
    I use besides that?
    
    Bill

    
    RE: .14
    
    Bill,
    
    If a pro shop has the facilities to do it, they will measure it
    for no charge I am sure. You can do it with a Machinists Protractor,
    But that would cost you about $6 or $7...
    
    
    Gene
    

    
    A couple of things here I find interesting.  First the theory about 
    changing the loft of a club.  It seems to me that they may change the 
    loft so that they don't have to play as many different shots.  Gene
    pointed out that each club is about 12 yds apart.  How many times have
    you been between clubs.  (it happens to me occationally so I'm sure it
    happens to pros a lot)  On with the theory.  Let's assume that the way
    the seniors hit the tee ball and the type of course they play, they end
    up between clubs more often.  Instead of bunting a 6 iron (tough shot
    even for them) or stepping all over a 7, just adjust the loft of the 7.
    So what they are doing is setting up the clubs for their (new) game,
    not just being macho.
    
    	As for the rule on bending, rule 4.1 section B
    "The shaft must be generally straight, with the same bending and
    twisting properties in any direction, and shall be attached to the
    clubhead at the heel either directly or through a single plain neck or
    socket.  A putter shaft may be attached to any part of the head."
    I guess that means that you can't monkey up a shaft for playing touble
    shots.  However you can put some bend in the shaft.  The way to adjust 
    face angle (open/closed) on wood clubs is by bending the shaft in the
    hosel.  I prefer a file myself but it can be done!
    
    As for measuring the loft of a club.  There are 2 ways that I know of.
    One is a loft/lie machine (Gene has a nice one.)  The other is a
    protractor.  I put the protractor arm on the sole of the club and
    measure the angle off the protractor scale.  Using the machine is
    easier but both methods give the same answer.
    
    
    
    						KO
    

    From the replies I would think that the pros aren't talking about
    adjusting the clubs to the point where their seven iron now has
    the loft of a six but the shaft length of a seven iron. If that
    were the case it would be much easier to have the six iron reshafted
    to the length of a normal six iron.
    
    Rather I think we are talking about a minimal gain. Ie, if they
    used to hit that seven iron 155 yrds and now hit it 150.00 they
    have the angle of the blade changed to get them that 5 yards back.
    I think we're only talking this fine a degree of added yardage.
      
    
    
    Tom

    re. 599.14>
    
    WHAT THE HECK IS A NON-REGULATION PITCHING WEDGE?? I HAVE 4 DIFFERENT
    MAKES OF PITCHING WEDGES AND NONE OF THEM HAVE THE SAME LOFT OR
    LIE !! AS FOR THE FLANGE, THE SIZE AND SHAPE OF THE FLANGE MAINLY
    HAS TO DO WITH THE PLAYABILITY OF THE WEDGE. A PITCHING WEDGE
    FOR INSTANCE USUALLY HAS A MUCH SMALLER FLANGE THAN A SAND WEDGE
    AND ALSO LESS BOUNCE. SAND-WEDGES HAVE DIFFERENT DEGREES OF BOUNCE
    FOR PLAYING OUT OF DIFFERENT TYPES OF SAND; I.E. MORE BOUNCE FOR
    VERY SOFT SAND AND LESS BOUNCE FOR HARDER SAND. I SAW A WEDGE THE
    OTHER NIGHT THAT HAD 64 DEGREES OF LOFT AND A FLANGE ON THE BACK
    THAT WAS CONVEX AND COVERED THE ENTIRE BACK OF THE HEAD !!! LOOKS
    LIKE YOU COULD HIT A BALL ALMOST STRAIGHT UP WITH IT.
    
    NIGHT

    My apologies, very poor choice of words "non-regulation" in a  golf
    forum.
    
    I meant of course a pitching wedge without the flange which is
    different than your "basic", "everyday", "floor model" pitching
    wedge.  
    
    bill_who_will_be_more_careful_with_his_choice_of_words

    The only constraint on changing the loft of any of your clubs is
    that you may not alter the loft of any club during the course of
    a stipulated round.
    
    For instance you may not do an on-course modification to your 2
    iron by wedging it in the crotch of a tree and shutting down the
    face just prior to hitting a shot.
    
    You may, however, legally attempt to fix the loft (bent shaft) on
    a club that has been damaged during play.

    Another caution is that the playability of some clubs may be severely
    hampered by tinkering around. There are many technical facets of
    golf clubs that aren't meant to be understood like face progression,
    offset, bounce, etc. that are designed into clubs and can possibly
    be destroyed by the home handyperson.
    
    At the start of every summer I show up at my local golf shop and
    let them do it right. They have the equipment and knowledge and
    will perform the task for a small con$ideration.
    

    Back to the subject of "strengthening" an iron; my guess is they're
    talking about strengthening the grip; i.e. turn the right hand
    clockwise.  Remember when they talk about a "strong grip".  That's
    what they're talking about.
    
    Thing is when you do that, you get more of a tendency to snap your
    wrists (hence the increased distance) but at the same time, more
    of a chance of a slice or hook because of the quick turn over of
    the club face.
    
    Would anyone agree ???
    
    He-who-use-to-slice-and-hook-cuz-of-his-strong-grip

re. .21            
    
    As far as I can gather, and I haven't seen this article, they are
    actually referring to altering the loft of the club to gain back
    some lost distance.
    
    THE MAD HACKER
    

      Noticed something about my irons yesterday.  I hate to admit how,
    but I'll fess up!  Number 16 at our club is a 180 yard par three
    that has been killing me since I took up this game, I was cruising
    to my best round of the year in a Flag tourney and had about a zillion
    strokes left when I hit on 16.  To shorten the story, hit a 4-iron
    directly into the woods like ALWAYS.  I'm not usually crazy on the
    course, but I snapped, threw my 4-iron about 80 yards and sheepishly
    went to retrieve it.
      ANYHOW...
    
      I picked up the club and looked at it to see if I bent it.  OUCH,
    it appeared to be bent right at the hosel, removing some of the
    loft.  Upon further inspection, ALL my irons appear to be strong
    but in varying degrees.  I'm sure none of my irons have been adjusted,
    is this normal from the factory?
    
    Rick

    
    Rick,
    
    Do you actually know what the lofts are on your clubs? Have you
    had them measured...?
    
    
    Gene

      No Gene, I've never had them measured.  They are factory.  I know
    another golfer with the same clubs, I'm going to look at his also.
    It's really strange, the spot where the shaft enters the hosel is
    where they appear to be bent!
    
    Rick

    
    Rick, you might find out that the bend you are mentioning is just
    the way your clubs are designed and not that they have a strong
    loft. I am interested in hearing what you find out...
    
    Thanks
    Gene

    
    
      The club loft and lie are usually off on most clubs. I've worked
    on a loft and lie machine and have ajusted brand new clubs quite a
    bit. My own personal set (powerbuilts) were off a degree or so on
    just about every club. The machine to bend the clubs is pretty 
    expensive. I didn't buy it myself but worked with someone who owns
    one. He's an older man and doesn't quite have the strenght required
    to bend the hossel. It's a real tricky task and snapped clubs do
    happen. Only twice in 7 years now. I'd be willing to bet that no
    one has a set thats right on the money, on each club.
    
    Brian