Conference 7.286::golf

    Re:< Note 472.0 by MSEE::KELLEY "got to get the short game togther" >

    I guess everybody is either:
    
    1) Realizing that this is it for the year.  (I still have my clubs in
       my car's trunk - sigh).  And that can be such a depressing thought
       that can completely depress  you  and  make  your mind go out on a
       limb for some time.
        
    2) Reading all the old  messages  that  are  now  unseen  due  to the
       conference rearrenging.
    
    I, for one, am doing both, and starting to plan when can I take a day
    off to go to the cape, but  I will save that for later in the winter.
    For the time being, I am getting ready  to  go  to a resort in M�xico
    with my family which means no golfing.  (I have to get my wife hooked
    asap!)
    
    Tavo
    

    Tavo, where in Mexico? I was there with my golfer-wife a year ago
    last spring, and played some terrific courses in the Guadalajara/
    Puerto Vallarta/Manzanillo region (but it sure was hot!). We each
    carried half a set apiece (to avoid getting too loaded down with
    luggage), and have really nice memories of that trip. Sorry you
    won't get the chance...
    
    	Frank

    
    
    Gene,
    
    You mean your not still getting in 36 holes every weekend on the
    cape?  Just kidding.  I guess most people have put the clubs away
    for the year.  I had to take mine out of the trunk to fit my skies
    in.  Anyhow, I'm still here, and I'll be reading whatevers around
    till spring with eager anticipation.  I may even visit my brother
    in Vir.  over the winter to see if he wants to play a couple of
    rounds early next year.  They don't have golf year round in the
    section of Vir. that he's in, but the season is longer then it is
    here and N.C. is only 2 hours away. ;-)  Finally, as the snow falls,
    remember this.  Thirty days has September, April, June, and November.
    All the rest have thirty-one, except for January and Febuary which
    have 90.
    
    Only about 100 more days till we can play in central Mass again.
    
    Steve Souza
    

    re:  < Note 472.0 by MSEE::KELLEY "got to get the short game togther" >

    Need I say more?

    Re:< Note 472.2 by MTWAIN::F_MCGOWAN "Ci stiamo gia divertendo?" >

    I am going to a resort complex ala Club Med outside Manzanillo in the
    Pacific coast called "Los Angeles  Locos de Tenacatita" and they have
    every other activity but golf.
    
    Besides, my children are still young, 9 and 6, and they still want me
    to spend in our vacations every single moment with them, which I also
    want to do before that changes.
    
    But, you never know, I am trying to convince  them to ask "Santa" for
    a Jr. set of clubs!! and then we all go to play!!
    
    Tavo

    Me, I've gotten the skis out and put the clubs away. Can't wait
    until I can talk my better half into moving to North Carolina where
    they practically golf year round.
    
    Mike

	Maybe we are all trying to catch up on the work we should have
	been doing this summer.  I would like to think of it as banking
	up time for next year.

	Larry

    Sorry Guys:
    
    		I'm still going out to the course in sunny Ft. Lauderdale.
    I hate to go to the course (thinking of you all) during the winter
    months, it is a dirty job, but some one has to do it. :)
    
    Regards,	Ray.
    
    PS: Look me up if you come down this way!!

    I'll think it is time to go golfing in sunny Arizona! Only 12 months
    out of the year. I'll take off just 1 week to clean my clubs!!!
    Bruce just a hacker in the low 90's.

Gene,

I'm here, just never seem to have the time to write or read notes, too much
travelling (last week I did seven plane trips). I'll be back!

-- Mr Litby

    Re. 5: Yeah, we drove past the Med on our way to the condo complex
    we were booked into in Manzanillo (next door to the Las Hadas resort,
    made famous (notorious?) in the movie "10"). Though not guests at
    the resort, we were able to play the golf course (this was off-season),
    known as "La Mantarraya," named for the 18th hole, one of the
    deadliest, but most beautiful, par 3's in the world. It's a Roy
    & Pete Dye course, and we considered ourselves lucky to have been
    able to play it (it's not open to the general public). More accessible,
    if less noteworthy, is Club de Golf Santiago, a 9-holer also in
    the area. Sounds like you'll have enough to keep you entertained,
    in any case.
    
    	Frank

    Its border line down here in Northern Virginia. I'm still hoping
    for a couple of nice weekends. There is one thing that always keeps me going
    this time of year.
    
    December 21 is the shortest day of the year. That means the days
    start getting longer next week for the rest of the summer. Its only
    a short time before golf after work begins.
    
    Keep that thought and the winter will pass quickly.
    
    Happy Holidays to All
    Ken

    Still around... just suffering.
    
      This is the time of year I call the "dead zone".  The weather
    is lousy, the courses are closed, skiing isn't very good yet, I 
    have to do Christmas stuff, and I'll be a year older soon. (And
    still no green jacket).  December in PA is awful.....
    
      I got home from work before my wife yesterday and there were 
    two Austaads boxes UPS delivered at the door.  Hummm... maybe
    the birthday/christmas won't be so bad after all.
    
      Edwin Watts delivered my 2 iron on monday.  I finally completed
    my set 2-sw all matching!  Now if I could speed up time I'd be OK.
    
      I wonder if I'm going to loose my swing over the next 12 weeks,
    (a horrifying thought!).  The calluses on my fingers are almost
    gone... could be a sign of frustrations to come.
    
    Sorry so glum but... WAIT TILL NEXT YEAR... I'll get that jacket
    one of these days!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    
    Rick_not_your_happy_camper.

    Re:< Note 472.11 by MTWAIN::F_MCGOWAN "Ci stiamo gia divertendo?" >

    I have  never  been in Manzanillo, and don't know where Tenacatita is
    in relation to  Las Hadas.  I only know it takes about a 30-45 minute
    ride from the airport and it's in a Bay by itself.
    
    Anyway, thanks Frank for the info on Mantarraya and CG Santiago, if I
    have some time , which I doubt, I'll  try one of them.  An additional
    problem  is  that  I  don't  want  to  carry  my  clubs  and  finding
    left-handed clubs for rent has proven almost impossible in the past.
    
    I guess I'll wait and go to the cape in February/March.
    
    BTW,   the  previous  note  that  mentioned  presents  remind  me  of
    something. A friend of mine who is English, and with whom I play very
    often, just came back from his honeymoon trip to England.   His wife,
    who also plays  but  not  as  much,  bought  me what she said was the
    perfect gift for me,  and  I  agree.  A pull cart with a leather golf
    bag about one foot tall,  that says "Old St.  Andrews" in the bag and
    inside the bag was a 12 year old scotch whisky bottle.  The bottle is
    at home still unopen, but the cart  and bag are next to me decorating
    my office. Great gift!!
    
    Tavo

    Re -1: Sorry, Tavo, I misread your note (thought you were staying
    at Club Med, which is a little north of Manzanillo). Just FYI, Las
    Hadas charges a fortune on or off-season (which is why we stayed
    at El Pueblito, just down the road a ways). We overlooked the 2nd
    green of La Mantarraya, which has a sandtrap right in the middle
    (of the green). Another hole, on the back 9 I think, has a palm
    tree growing in the middle of the green (and a big one, too). The
    town of Manzanillo doesn't offer a lot - it's a working seaport,
    not really geared to turistas. And, from what I understand, renting
    clubs at Las Hadas is not a good idea (what you get is in very bad
    condition). The course was the subject of a feature article in Golf
    Weekly in one of the Spring issues this year (I still have it
    somewhere). I'd love to get back there (after I hit Megabucks)!
    
    		Frank

    
    Well I'm still here!  Of course there's snow on the ground, the
    temp is in the low teens (below 0 at night) and the wind blows
    all winter.  Golf seems so far away now.  The only thing that helps
    is working on clubs in the basement.  

    The consolation this year was that I was able to play up to Nov
    19.  Even played a good round.  That should keep me from going 
    crazy until April when we start again.
    
    BTW if anybody happens to be coming to Northern Vt. stop by to say
    hello.  I'm the one with the wistfull look and the hands in a strong
    grip position.
    
    Happy Holiday's to all.  And yes even to those who are still playing
    and those that are planning trips to warmer climbs.
    
    
    
    					KO

    re:  < Note 472.15 by MTWAIN::F_MCGOWAN "Ci stiamo gia divertendo?" >

    Hey Frank,
    
    Talk about a small world?  I played that course (and stayed at El
    Pueblito) about 3 years ago.  My wife won a trip for 2 to Mexico City.
    Since we weren't too thrilled about hangin' out in MC, we had a travel
    agent set us up in Manzanillo.  We stumbled into a great deal at El
    Pueblito.
    
    The deal was that they (El Pueblito) were trying to sell time-shares to
    the condos only we weren't there for that (but they didn't know it).
    They wined and dined us, took us over for some activities at Las Hatas,
    payed for my golf at the course and in general treated us like royalty.
    At the end of the week (our next to last day), they gave us the "well,
    how do you like it?" routine.  We just smiled politely and told them we
    were just here for a week's vacation.  
    
    After they picked their jaws up off the floor, you would have thought
    we had the plague or something.  The next day instead of having people
    bringing us our drinks and stuff it was "That'll be 100 pesos se�or!".
    
    Anyway, we left the following day and really had a great time.  I've
    got pictures of me on the course.  Some of those holes were awsome!
    I've got one of me hitting a shot between two palm trees that form a
    "Y" as you approach the green.  Also some of the greens with all the
    water falls, sand traps, palm trees, etc.  It was definitely the nicest
    course I ever played.
    
    Oh well, maybe someday my wife will win another trip. :-)
    
    +- Mark

    Re-1: "Yeah, we're here to buy one of your swell condos...that's
    the ticket!" Right...I definitely recall the "Y-shaped palm trees"
    and have at least a couple of photos (14th or 15th hole, I seem
    to recall). We were there in May of 87 (definitely not "in-season"
    and it was hotter than the hinges of Hell...get off the course before
    11 or die! But it's a super course [even better than Stow North,
    he says sacreligiously] and I wish we could stay at Las Hadas* next
    time). Sue and I played golf about every other day, and when we
    got back to the home course, I shot 2-over for 9 one day and 4-over
    the next, for the best aggregate 18-hole score of my life. Haven't
    gotten close to it since! Did you and your wife have dinner at Le
    Recife, by any chance? Absolutely stunning view of the bay, and
    the first time I ever had smoked marlin (which was superb).
    
    		Frank
    
    * In English, "The Fairies," so named because the early Spanish
    explorers thought the shimmering water in the bay looked like
    "fairy wings" (okay, so they had pretty extravagant imaginations!).
    Did you get to use the pool at Las Hadas?
    
    
    		Frank

    
    RE: .3
    
    	Steve, I'm only getting about 18 a week in (which I am sure
    	that even that will gome to an end REAL soon). I played
    	yesterday at Green Meadows... The weather wasn't bad at all,
    	it is a completely different game this time of year, having
    	to layup and let it bouch to the green (if your lucky). The
    	part that was disappointing was that they are still charging
    	$17.00 ..............!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    
    	Gene

    re:  < Note 472.18 by MTWAIN::F_MCGOWAN "Ci stiamo gia divertendo?" >

�    gotten close to it since! Did you and your wife have dinner at Le
�    Recife, by any chance? Absolutely stunning view of the bay, and
�    the first time I ever had smoked marlin (which was superb).
    
    I can't remember the name of the place, but it was back a couple of
    miles down the road towards the airport.  We had fresh lobster (caught
    that morning) and the tails were huge!!  About the size of an average
    man's for-arm.  What was also incredible was the price!  Seems like ate
    a ton of lobster and it only cost us something like 2500 pesos (which
    was worth about 10 bucks back then).
    
    Speaking of airport...do they still have the military guards with M-1
    rifles?  I'm serious!

�    Did you get to use the pool at Las Hadas?

    Sure did.  It was really neat!
    
    Did you get into the village?  Aren't those taxis a joke?
    
    +- Mark

    Re:< Note 472.20 by PLATA::BILLINGSLEA "PERSISTENCE PAYS" >

>    I can't remember the name of the place, but it was back a couple of
>    miles down the road towards the airport.  We had fresh lobster (caught
>    that morning) and the tails were huge!!  About the size of an average
>    man's for-arm.  What was also incredible was the price!  Seems like ate
>    a ton of lobster and it only cost us something like 2500 pesos (which
>    was worth about 10 bucks back then).
    
    I am stuck  with  eating  at  the hotel I'm going, so I hope that the
    food there is as good!!

>   Speaking of airport...do they still have the military guards with M-1
>   rifles?  I'm serious!

    One of the things that my wife (an american) had trouble adjusting to
    when we got married and she moved to M�xico was the fact that anybody
    who is a member of  an  order  enforcement  corps  will  carry a fire
    weapon, and  soldiers will always carry a rifle.  We natives are used
    to it and don't think to much of it.
    
    A little more impressive are  the  road  blocks they have around that
    area to check the vehicles for drugs.  You don't dare to say anything
    against them.
    
    This has nothing to do with golf but keeps the conference going.
    
    Tavo

    
    I had to make one of the toughest decissions that I've ever made
    this past week.
    
    I am now having my wife sleep on the sofa.  I have the clubs all
    tucked away in the bed where I can see them before going to sleep
    and as soon as I wake up.  I figure this will help getting me through
    this frustrating time of not golfing.  The best I figure is that
    the wife was pi#^ed off most of the year, what the hell why change
    now.
    
    I guess a way to figure it is-  Theres only roughly 11 or twelve
    more Fridays before golf weekends are here.
    
    Bob "Monty" Montville

	Re. 20,21: I was somewhat prepared for the fact that guns are carried
	by just about anyone in uniform in Mexico, having been stationed not
	far from the border while in the Air Force many years ago. Still, the
	sight of carbine-toting soldiers on every street corner in downtown
	Guadalajara was a bit of a shock!

	Our luck with taxis was good, for the most part. A Senor Rodriguez
	"adopted" my wife and me in Guadalajara, and took excellent care of 
	us for the week we were there. Again, the cabs in Puerto Vallarta
	were fine, and we even hired one to drive us to Manzanillo, which
	worked out great, since it gave us a chance to see a lot more of
	the countryside than we would have from a plane. Both Senor Rodri-
	guez and Rudy (the young man who drove to Manzanillo) had enough
	English to combine with my very scant Spanish to communicate pretty
	well.
	
	Guadalajara also has its share of golf courses that are worth playing
	if you have the chance: San Isidro is a long cab drive from the city,
	but a super course; and Club De Golf Atlas is not far from El Tapatio,
	the hotel we stayed at, near the airport. Greens fees were reasonable,
	and a caddy is required, both as a necessity for the club and for the 
	golfer. I'd never had a caddy before, so it was a new experience, and
	a little intimidating, especially when the guy's been caddying at the
	course over 40 years, as Angel had at San Isidro.
	
	What little Spanish I had at my command was a mix of dimly-remembered
	high school study and "street" Spanish acquired in Juarez. This led to
	a fairly amusing incident on the course when my wife and I were
	walking up one of the fairways, followed by Angel and Luis, who were
	carrying on a conversation, all of which was incomprehensible to me,
	except for *one* word, indelibly etched in memory from many usages in
	Juarez and the barracks in New Mexico. Pretending to be shocked, I
	turned to the caddies, and said, in my best Boston accent, "Senors,
	por favor...la senora!" At first nonplussed that I'd understood what
	they'd said, both men laughed when it dawned on them that my wife 
	hadn't a clue what the word meant...

	One of the nicest aspects of having a caddy was hearing him murmur
	"perfecto" when I got off a decent shot (and total silence when I
	didn't). If I'd played half as well as Angel caddied, I'd have set
	a course record. On putts, he unerringly pointed out the line...
	unfortunately, my putting wasn't nearly as unerring. And when I'd
	leave one short, I had a chance to mutter one of the few idioms I
	knew suitable to the occasion (containing the word "huevos," for
	anyone who'd care to guess at the rest of it). Anyway, there's a
	lot of golf available in Mexico, and not all of it's clustered
	around the big resorts. Last I knew, a course was being built right
	in the middle of Puerto Vallarta, so you wouldn't have to drive
	to another state to play Los Flamingos; but I have no idea if it's
	completed, or what kind of shape it's in.

    Re:< Note 472.23 by MTWAIN::F_MCGOWAN "Ci stiamo gia divertendo?" >

    Geesh!   Frank,  you  have played in many more courses in M�xico that
    me.  Well,  it  isn't  difficult  since I really only started to play
    periodically when I transfered to the US.  Golf in M�xico City is for
    wealthy  people,  only private courses where you need to buy  a  club
    share as entry fee.
    
    I have played in M�xico in the following ones (Unfortunatelly I don't
    have in my memory many details of them)
    
    Cuernavaca Municipal Course - One  hour  south  of M�xico City, hilly
    course sourounded by beautiful vegatation typical of Cuernavaca.
    
    Hacienda de Cocoyoc course - Part of a resort hotel complex two hours
    from  M�xico  City, don't remember anything particular of this course
    other that is  realatively flat, but the place is worth since it is a
    an  authentic  spanish  colonial   hacienda,  beautiful  gardens  and
    swimming pools, good food, and,  at  least  then, at a very afordable
    price.
    
    I have also played in a  Golf  CLub  outside  Cuernavaca, with a very
    nice course layout, but not as much vegetation as the Municipal:  and
    in  a  course  part  of  another  hotel-hacienda  in  the  skirts  of
    Queretaro, 2 � hours west of M�xico City, but  I  don't  remember the
    names of either.
    
    Tavo

    Like Frank,  I  also  have had some experiences with caddies that you
    may find interesting/amusing.
    
    Until May this  year,  I worked in Product Marketing in GIA, job that
    took me to many places, and  I  always  tried  to  arrange  my flight
    schedule in a way  that  I  could  have some time to play or somewhat
    make myself indespensable in events  that  involved  a round of golf.
    And Japan is where most of this happened.

    Nihon Digital, our subsidiary in Japan, organizes every year an event
    similar to the U.S.  Executive Seminar  for our OEMs and CMPs.  It is
    a two day event, where the first day  is  all  work  related  but the
    second day is R&R including a golf tournament.   As you all know golf
    in Japan is very expensive, I have been told that  a  round  goes  as
    high  as  $300  US,  so  organizing  a customer tourney is very  well
    received.
    
    I  participated in two of such events and in both cases we  played  a
    "Professional"  course, very well  keeo  and  run.    Everything  was
    superbly organized:  Tee times, lunch after 9 holes, tee time for the
    back  nine, reception to give tourney  prizes,  etc.    Part  of  the
    environment are the caddies:  all women  and all dresses in a uniform
    that consisted in a long skirt and a  funny shapped hat.  In one case
    what to me looked like an oversized US pilgrims  women  hat (bonnet?)
    and in the other case it looked like the hat  Sally Field used on her
    TV series "The Flying Nun".  Well, needless to say, they didn't speak
    english  (or  spanish :^), but really were trying to help and provide
    me  with  as  much  guidance  as possible, which I needed because the
    course was measured in meters, and the greens where all Bermuda which
    I had never played before.
    
    By the way, it was only one caddie per group, and in one occasion the
    lady caddie cart was  pull cart.  I fell so sorry for her pushing the
    cart with four heavy bags  on a 80+ weather with a heavy uniform.  In
    the other case it was a motor cart only for the bags, no ride-on.
    
    Another  thing  that I found amusing  is  that,  as  many  languages,
    Japanese doesn't have words for golf terms, so they use english terms
    with heavy japanese pronunciation:  e.g.  ni shaw  =  nice shoot.  It
    took me a while to get them!
    
    I also played in Sydney at a  Deccie's  club  with  a  small  9 holer
    located in a valley.    The  land  is  so  small  that  they have two
    fairways that cross like an  "X".   When teeing off you have to watch
    for people coming from the other tee.
    
    An just to finish (I have  been  noting  too  long),  I  also went to
    Vancouver and went one day skiing in  the  highest  vertical drop ski
    area in North America, Whistler, about two hours from Vancouver.  The
    next day I couldn't take such a  slope  anymore  so  we  went back to
    Vancouver  and  played  18  holes  (very slowly since  my  legs  were
    soared).  Beautiful area.
    
    Tavo

    Re. Tavo - (Is this turning into a private conversation??)
    Thanks for the tips on other Mexican courses...I'm sure my mujer
    and I will be there before too much longer; and your comments on
    golf in Japan were fun to read. I understand it's VERY expensive
    to play there...people are lucky to get out for a round more than
    once a year, and memberships go for a million dollars (American,
    whatever that works out to in yen). The guy I take lessons from
    does business in the far East, and is flabbergasted at the cost!
    
    One interesting note re. caddies: the guy who caddied for me at
    the Atlas course won the national caddy championship of Mexico just
    a few years ago. When I found out about that, I was *really* intimi-
    dated!

    Haven't played golf in Vancouver (yet), but visited the city in
    '85 (the year before the World's Fair), and was highly impressed
    by the beauty of the town itself (including an outstanding zoo)
    and the surrounding countryside...watched a hang-gliding competi-
    tion on Grouse Mountain, which was literally breathtaking. If you
    can recommend a golf course there, I'll add it to my list of "must-
    plays."
    
    		Hasta luego,
    
    			Frank

    
       Frank and Tavo,
    
           Keep it up guys.  Your stories provide great reading
        And don't you dare take the conversation off-line!!!
    
    -rick_who_can_only_dream_golf_now

    One other thing to beware of if you go to Mexico (or any other part
    of the world that's hot AND humid): you will go through a bunch
    of golf gloves in a big hurry! I must have torn up half a dozen
    in the two weeks we were there, which is more than I normally go
    through in a whole season up here in New England. As for other natural
    hazards (besides trying to remember two years of high school Spanish
    30+ years later), you want to be sure to poke around in the rough
    with a long iron before putting your feet in there. Snakes can get
    cranky when disturbed! Sometimes it's just not worth the price of
    a new Titleist...
    
    		Frank, wondering how the conditions will be on the 
    			Cape in a month or so...
    

    Frank & Tavo,
    	Ya know I read your exploits bounding about the world playing
    golf and skiing and I wonder what does a working stiff like me have
    to do to join that club?  Gee maybe I could be your assistant. 
    I could advise your caddies on how to present you with the club
    you need.  Let's see " ah Ms/Mr caddy when you give <....> his club
    please don't sling it through the air, bounce it along the ground
    so the grip lands in his hands instead of ........" 
    What da think guys..... take me along :-)
    
    
    					Just color me green
    						KO

    .29 - Well, one thing that helped was being married to someone who
    had a 50% interest in a travel agency! Since she sold off her half,
    my wife and I have been doing a lot of vacationing in such exotic
    climes as Pemaquid, Maine (not far from a challenging 9-holer designed
    back in the 30's by Donald Ross). Sorry if I've been guilty of causing
    pangs of envy among the other Golf Noters! If it's any consolation,
    the worst part of having visited such great places is knowing how
    unlikely it is I'll get back there any time soon.
    
    		Frank

    At the risk of receiving significant hate mail, I'd like to point
    out that here in Southern Calif we not only play golf all year round,
    we also ski and surf.  As a matter of fact, I did all three in one
    day last year(skiied, golfed, and surfed.)  

    re .-1
    
    	I bet I could do the same here in NH, all 3 in one day. But
    I sure would need a REAL good wetsuit, for the surfing portion.....
    
    
    				Just sign me,
    
    
    							Jealous