Conference 7.286::golf

    Before going to stiff shafts I'd check my fundamentals...
    A few wrong fundamentals that can contribute to a slice are:
    	incorrect grip,open stance,ball position,failing to complete
    	your backswing...
    incorrect grip: can cause you to open clubface comming into ball,
    results=slice...
    
    open stance: can cause outside swing,ends up in cutting across ball..
    ball position: too far forward can cause cutting across ball..
    backswing: not getting the forward shoulder behind ball on backswing
    can cause you to throw arms at ball causing cutting across ball..
    
    these are just a few I'm sure there's more..stiff shafts may even
    worsen a slice if it is a fundamental that is wrong...
    

RE: .0


    Hmmm.  This is a very interesting question.  I'm currently going
    through the same thing with a guy now.  That is the thing that I'll
    be looking for when we go out to the range to hit the ball.
    
    It's very possible that the driver has a flexible shaft and just
    can't keep up with your swing.  It's interesting that the ball goes
    out straight then slices, I would expect that it would be pushed out
    left (in your case) and then slice.  But without seeing your swing
    it's hard to tell.  I suspect that if it is the shaft, then you're
    closing down the clubface in the backswing to compensate for the
    slice.
    
    There are a couple of things to do.  Go to a pro and have him look
    at your swing and ask if a stiff shaft would be good for you.  The
    other thing is to try out a stiff shafted driver and see how you
    like it.  If it feels good and you hit the ball good, then you can
    either have your current driver reshafted or buy the new one.
    
    
    
    						KO

    If you get stiff shafted woods, it may do nothing to your iron play
    as long as you continue to play with the same irons. If your swing
    is sound and you believe the slice is directly related to your woods,
    then only get stiff shafted woods.
    
    I would tend to agree with what waas previously mentioned. Have
    your swing checked by a qualified pro to make sure that you have
    no glaring (or subtle) swing flaws that are causing this problem.
    
    Mike

    thanks for your help folks. I will try to find a pro and check 
    for flaws however subtle they may be.
    
    jeff
    

    Jeff, if the initial ball flight is straight, that indicates that
    the clubhead path is correct (on the target line). When the ball
    curves to the left (your slice) that indicates that the clubface
    is open at impact. If the trajectory is higher than normal that
    indicates that the angle of attack (direction of clubhead into the
    ball-hit down-hit up- hit behind) is to steep (hitting down). Hope
    this helps. As indicated by the others there can be many different
    causes. The pro is your best bet. Be aware that it will take time
    and effort to work things out. Hope this helps. Richard.
    

    Jeff,
    
    I concur with all of the folks who have suggested that a professional
    can straighten out your game.  However, this is not always feasible,
    or affordable, and going to see a pro every now and then for a quick
    fix is no way to build a good golf swing.  If you are serious about
    playing good golf I would suggest setting up a series of lessons
    with a qualified pro.
    
    In the meantime, another of your problems - which many people do
    not consider, good and bad golfers alike - may be how your shoulders
    are set at address.  You want to remember that when you address
    the ball that your feet, knees, waist and shoulders should all be
    parallel with your target.  There are two ways to check your address
    position.  First, and easiest, is to address the ball in your normal
    fashion and have a friend lay a club, or a long stick, perpindicular
    to your feet, i.e. along your toes.  This will show you where your
    feet are aiming.  Have your friend do the same with your knees,
    waist and especially your shoulders.  You may be surprised at what
    you find.
    
    The second way would be to get one of those long rectangular mirrors,
    the kind people use in dressing rooms, and look at your address
    position in the mirror.  The object is to be aiming at the mirror
    like you would be aiming down a fairway.  Using a mirror is a great
    aid in perfecting your address position.  People seldom belive they
    are doing something unless they see it themselves.  Videos are another
    great way at improving your swing, the tape does not lie.
    
    The winter is fast approaching and many people do not take advantage
    of the time spent inside to improve their game.  It only takes a
    few minutes a day to work on your address and stance with a mirror
    and the benefits are tremendous come springtime.  It's like the
    old saying "You can't build a solid house on a weak foundation".
     The same is true in golf.  You can't build a solid swing on a weak
    stance.
    
    Bob Toski and Jim Flick's book "How To Become A Complete Golfer"
    is a good bet on learning and understanding the fundamantals of
    golf and has hundreds of ideas for practice aids.  Also, Toski has
    an earlier book called...let me think...it's coming back to me
    now..."Bob Toski's Fundamentals of Golf".  This is an excellent
    book with lots of pictures.  Great visualization aid.
    
    Hope this helps.  Let me know how your game progresses.
    
    jeff

>    The winter is fast approaching and many people do not take advantage
>    of the time spent inside to improve their game.  ...  It's like the
>    old saying "You can't build a solid house on a weak foundation". ...
>    Bob Toski and Jim Flick's book "How To Become A Complete Golfer"
>    is a good bet on learning and understanding the fundamantals of
>    golf and has hundreds of ideas for practice aids.  

	I agree whole heartedly.  In fact every spring I break out my copy
	and read it from cover to cover before I even pick up the sticks.
	I probably should go back to it more often during the year.  It's
	amazing how often you have to relearn the fundamentals.

	Larry

    re .7
    
    	Thanx for the second.  Also, winter is a great time to perfect
    your putting stroke.  The best method I found - and least expensive
    - for indoor putting practice is to lay two 2x4s on the floor side by
    side a little further apart than the width of a golf ball to putt
    thru.  Lay about 12 inches of masking tape or duct tape down about
    10 to 12 feet from the "hole" as an aid for your putting stroke.
    Following my own words that pictures are better than words:
    
			| |
			| |    <--- Tape
    			| |

			 ^
                         |
    			 |
    
    		       10-12 Feet
    
			 |    
    			 |	 
			 v
    
		    | |    | |
    		    | |    | |  <--- Boards
    		    | |    | |

    
    Just as a follow up of my reply of yesterday.  The weak slice was
    NOT caused by a flexible shaft.  It was indeed a poor address position
    and a poor grip.  After fixing those the weak slice went away.
    .6 mentioned fundamentals.  Here here!
    
    						KO

>    	Thanx for the second.  Also, winter is a great time to perfect
>    your putting stroke.  The best method I found - and least expensive
>    - for indoor putting practice is to lay two 2x4s on the floor side by
>    side a little further apart than the width of a golf ball to putt
>    thru.  

     You must be deadly on the greens.   Did you really mean only slightly
     larger than a golf ball?  I have used the same two boards but just
     slightly wider than a putter.  The difference I putt from between the
     boards to the hole (actually lolly columns in the carpeted part of the
     basement.)  This is a good exercise to prevent you from pulling/pushing
     the putter off the line.

	Larry

     Again thanks for the useful advise and help for possible problems,
    however I did make time for a lesson on friday and the results were
    a problem at address not with body position but club head being
    slightly open and the shaft not in a perpendicular position IE:
    hands slightly behind clubhead. By straitening this out it added
    10 to 15 yards and a lot of accuracy to the woods.
    
    jef

    Jef,
    
    Congrats on straightening out your high slice.  Don't it feel great
    to be hitting the ball well?  Keep up the good work, and remember,
    lessons should not only be for quick fixes.  Also, practice does
    not make perfect, perfect practice makes perfect so don't forget
    what the pro told you.
    
    re. -2
    
    I use the boards as the target so I only space them out a little
    wider than a golf ball.  Using an additional two boards as a stroke
    guide for your putter is also an excellent drill.  You were one step
    ahead of me on  that one.
    
    jeff