Conference 7.286::golf

    "PET PEEVES"
    
    1.  Slow play.  Hit the ball and get back in the cart.
    
    2.  Entire foursomes looking for lost balls, If you hit it in the
    woods you deserve to lose the ball.  And furthermore, If you can't
    afford to lose balls buy cheaper ones!!!
    
    3.  Most women golfers... for various reasons. (see 1.)
    
    4.  Our course also has a diving range nestled between 9 and 18,
    people steal the range balls (we use decent balls) and leave junk
    behind or nothing at all.
    
    5.  Poor etiquette on greens.  (and not fixing ball marks)

    
    P.S.  Never look back over your shoulder and worry about others
    hitting you.  That takes time.  (see 1.)

    
    Rick_18_in_4_hrs_max.  (how else can you play 45 on a sun!!!!)

    1: Slow Play....
       within the foursome I can't stand it while on the green the guy
       that putts second isn't even near his ball until the first guy
       has puted marked and gotten out of the way. 
    2: Stupid questions ?
       Can I get relief from the trap because there is water in another
       area of the trap. Then watching the guy ground the club.... 
    3: Expecting lessons from the better golfer in the foursome. I don't
       know what I'm doing wrong, I don't even watch you...
    
       
       

       On a par-3, waving on the players at the tee.  For some reason,
       a lot of golfers think this is a good idea (some even think
       it's part of golfing etiquette!), and that it speeds up play.
       
       In fact, it slows down play -- if a group is playing slowly enough
       (for whatever reasons) that the group following has caught up,
       then the golf course is not going to be helped by that group
       standing around the green while four players hit tee shots.
       Moreover, this (moronic) practice breaks up the play of the hole
       for both the group on the green (who have to wait for the players
       teeing off) and for the players on the tee (who have to wait for
       the people on the green to putt out before hitting their putts/2nd
       shots). 
       
       
       re .1: 
       
       Your comments about women golfers are just plain dumb.
       
       Some women who play golf are slow players; some men who play
       golf are slow players.  Women have every much right to a golf
       course as anyone else.
       
       If you want to whine about slow players, about players who take
       too much time posing instead of hitting, or players who always
       seem to be caught by surprise when it's their turn to hit --
       that's fine.  But it's ignorant and foolish to say that women are
       more likely to be guilty of these than men.
       
       --Mr Topaz
              
         

    Re. -1: I heartily second the notion that criticizing women golfers
    for being responsible for clogging up the golf course is totally
    erroneous. If anything, it's been my experience that most women
    are all too aware of this notion, and are almost apologetic about
    even *being* on the course with men; which is ridiculous, since
    they are no worse [and often better] about keeping pace than a lot
    of men, some of whom know nothing about golf etiquette except what
    they see on TV. The result is inordinate amounts of time wasted
    by these guys selecting a club, testing the wind, pacing off yardage,
    surveying the green, taking several practice swings, and then knocking
    the ball into the woods and spending so much time looking for it
    you'd think it was made of solid gold. What really irks me is getting
    stuck behind 4 such clods, and having an impatient 4-some behind
    us, hitting into us while we wait for them to make up their minds(?)
    to hit their next shot, or, worse, total up their scores before
    leaving the green. Invariably, these guys always leave their bags
    or carts on the front edge of the green, which adds another lag
    as they retrace their steps before meandering off to the next tee.
    
    Frank

    Agreed. It's not the gender, it's the amount of golf etiquette.
    There is nothing more maddening than golfers(?) who don't know how
    to manage their way around a course. Actually since there has always
    been such a bad rap against women they seem to make sure they are
    moving along. The ones that don't are the old ones who have been
    playing for years and don't give a s&*t.
    
    re ...hitting on par 3's
    I disagree. The whole point is to keep the play moving. If you are
    on a green and your group has been playing slow then let the players
    who are standing on the tee hit. By the time they get to the green
    you should be able to putt out. If not then let them play through
    on the next hole. There is nothing worse than getting in a good
    rythm and then have to wait 10 minutes while Jack, Arnie, Lee, and
    Tom line up their 5 footers and then watch them miss.
    
    FLAME OFF....
    
    <TEM>

    Sorry, but as one who's been playing "for years" (decades, actually),
    I must take exception to the "age bias" of the previous comment
    regarding slow players. Most of us who are "on the back 9" have
    had golf etiquette burned deeply into our frontal lobes ever since
    we first stepped onto the #1 tee. My most recent experience with
    slow play involved being stuck behind four guys in their 30's last
    Sunday, most of whom (based on their behavior) couldn't spell
    "etiquette," much less define it. What made it particularly galling
    was that I was in a twosome. Well, at least it gave me a chance
    to get to know my son-in-law/golf partner a little better, with
    all that spare time to chat!
    
    I think the real point is that ignorance and rudeness are not restricted
    to any age group or gender...BTW didn't we go over the "slow play"
    stuff in a base note already??

    
    What's happening to this notes file?  It's starting to sound like
    the MRO softball league notesfile!  I use to come over here to get
    away from all the bickery.  This use to be a nice guys/gals notesfile!
    I thought that this sport was a gentlemans/ladies game?  If somebody
    is giving you a hard time on the course keep your cool stay into
    your own game and don't worry about anything or anyone but you.
    I always try to do and keep doing what I know is right.  Maybe I
    was brought up right?  Re.  previous notes......let's not turn the
    course into a battle ground!  Let's not turn this notes file into
    a personal battle ground!

    adding my 2 cents on pet peeves,....how bout those pinheads that
    have to surround the hole while one guy putts, i mean there only
    five feet from the hole, then when i get to the green i can see
    all the dance steps and scuff marks all around the hole, ithink
    these are the same jerks that write down scores on the green. so
    lets all pickup our feet on the greens, an be ready to hit if your
    away,          
               bob

    
    What bothers me on the course besides the aforementioned?  
    
    1. People who put their tee shot in the next area code and wonder
    why.  I'd like to tell them it's because they have a lousy swing
    but I know that the golf gods would make me suffer for being rude.
    
    2. People who throw clubs or loose control when they play badly.
    Hell I make bad shots too (more bad than good lately) but I'm not
    going to take it out on the other players.  
    
    3. People who have very "selective" memories when it's time to pay
    off the bets, yet make sure they get every nickel if they win. 
    Then they buy a lemonaid, pick up the change and screw.  If they
    loose, they have a double <whatever>.  (If a lousy $2.00 is that
    important, I'll pay it for you.)
    
    4. Pin placements on a side hill.  It's one thing to hide it behind
    a trap or put it on the side where you don't want to miss the green
    but it's another thing if your lag putt goes by the hole, it's likely
    it will roll off the green or be at least 10 ft by.  Who do these
    greenskeepers think we are?
    
    
    					KO

    Some of the points about etiquette mentioned are well taken, however
    I feel you gotta give everyone the benefit of the doubt.
    
    . someone from foursome behind you hitting into your group. It *might*
    have been an accident. The 1st time it happens I feel you should
    simply look back and get the reaction from the person who hit into
    you. Sometimes distance is misjudged, or you simply were not seen
    by the party. Usually the person will apologize... If it happens
    more than once... well .... do what you have to I guess.
    
    . scuff marks. Again, if it's only an occasional thing.. let it
    pass.
    
    . slow play - I *used* to let this bother me... I don't any more.
    It's simply a fact of life on a public course. We now met at 6:00AM
    on the weekends in order to get off and get done at a decent time.
    If slow play bothers you enough to affect your play, the only solution
    I know is to play early, or join a private course. If I could afford
    it, I would be a member now!
    
    . Women golfers. I agree, for the most part, that women are no slower
    than men... *BUT* women simply cannot hit the ball as far as men,
    therefore you *will* play slower behind women. This assumes that
    your foursome keeps the ball in play, and don't compare women to
    men who are constantly in the woods. (I am talking about men golfers
    who keep in in play).. but again, I don't let it bother me.
    
    .1 I disagree that 'you deserve to lose the ball if you hit into
    the woods'. If a golfer takes no more than 3-5 minutes looking for
    a ball, *no problem*. It can really make a difference in your score
    if you find it! (It's a 2 shot difference)... not to mention the
    $$ your going to loose to the guy your playin against.
    
     Smitty
    

 re: Pin placement

I use to be a greenskeeper at two different golf courses, you HAVE to keep the 
pins moving or they get wipeout in no time, the greens keeper does not care
about how to make the course tough, he want it NICE...and take pride in the
course. You get different styles of maintence at different course however
the goal is the same.

 RE: Slow play?

	Well we all had to walk before we could run, and I hate to wait just 
like the next guy. I think that maybe folks who are starting out go to
beginner courses, and after you get in the swing of it, head to advance 
course. If we all of us take that responsibility to educate the new play
we all would benefit...make senses?
Neal    

    If you are constantly being hit into, then you are likely playing
    too slow!!  Especially if it occurs on many different outings.
    
    Re Women:  At our course women are not allowed on Saturday mornings.
     However, play is a LOT SLOWER on Saturday morning than on Sunday,
    or any other time of the week.
    
    Re Slow Play:  Expectations need to be set on the first tee as to
    the amount of time allowable for a round.  The starter, the pro-shop,
    and fellow competitors can all contribute to faster golf.  I recently
    was fortunate enough to compete in a statewide championship tourney.
     On the first tee we were told that we had to average less than    
    15 minutes per hole and that penalty strokes would be assesed if
    we didn't keep up.  We averaged well under 4 hours per round!! 
    
    Favorite Grip:  People who don't fix up their mess in traps.

    Re .11 (pin placements):
    
    When I worked at a country club, pin placement was very important.
    Yes, they have to be moved from time to time but when I moved them,
    I had to make sure to move them to a FAIR location on the green.
    Moving a pin too close to a severe slope is not a fair location.
    Or sticking a pin in a sidehill lie is not fair either.
    
    Believe me, when the pins were in bad positions, we heard about
    it from the members. It is usually very obvious when a pin is badly
    placed too.
    
    Some of the basic rules of thumb we used to move pins:
    
    1) Make sure it is on a level spot.
    2) Make sure it was at least 4 feet from a severe slope (more or
    less depending on the slopes severity).
    3) Must be at least 10 feet from the nearest edge (more like 8 feet
    for tournaments).
    4) Don't place a pin in a "bad" part of the green (I.E. on grass
    that has been abused or died).
    5) The plastic insert had to be at least an inch below the grass.
    
    Mike

    It seems my "slow play" comment concerning women caused quite an
    outburst!  On my course the women get very little advantage on 14
    of the holes on the course with regard to tee placement, consequently
    reaching greens in regulation becomes a real chore.  This slows
    them down unless they can hit 200 yard drives consistently.  Also
    I often find where women are playing, a husband or boyfriend is
    giving "on-course" instruction and we all know that is a no-no.
    I don't think women are inherently slower, but on my course there
    is a marked difference because it is a hitters course.  I should
    also clarify my comment on hunting balls in the woods, that in the
    woods is OB most times and a provisional ball should be played anyhow.
    No saving strokes there!!
    
    Hopefully I've softened the anger I aroused!!
    
    Rick_I_still_want_to_get_45_in_on_Sun_and_I_start_at_7am!!!
    

    Interesting that .14 mentioned that there is little difference between
    the women's tees and men's tees.  Several years ago, we offered
    to build new women's tees so that they would have an opportunity
    to score better and play a game more closely to that of the men.
     They said "no way", because it would lower their handicaps and
    make it more difficult for them to compete at other clubs!!!
    
    You just can't win.

    Refer to note 63 for a discussion of slow play; to 138 for ladies'
    tees; to 151 for annoying behavior on the course; and to 165 for
    things that bother you during play.
    
    Frank

    RE: Slow Play
    
    I have notices the older the players, the slower the play...
    
    We have SEVERAL, like maybe 80, members at my home course in their
    late 60's and 70's.. They play REAL SLOW...But I repect them for
    their age and all, so I don't get too upset with them.. And YES,
    older women play exceptionally slow....
    
    I have found that if you approach slow players in a pleasent manor,
    talking about the course and just being a gentleman, they will let
    you play through...Most of the time...
    
    My pet peeves have been mentioned....Jerks who don't rake traps,
    side hill pin placements and the same jerks who refuse to replace
    divots...
    
    Jim
    

    re: slow play and/or ignorant play
    
    Yesterday, I got behind a foursome that was unbelievable!!  Not only
    were they slow but IG-NOR-ANT!!  We witness this guy hitting a ball
    O.B. then going over and playing it!!  Aaarrrggghhh!  Where is a course
    marshall when you need one?
    
    Anyway, we finally catch them on a PAR 3.  We walked up as they were
    finishing teeing off.  I asked them if we could play through.  The guy
    that played his ball O.B. turns around and says "There's no place to
    go, the foursome in front of us is what is slowing everything down."
    (The truth was that the foursome in front was already on the next
    green!) I replied, "Fine we'll just play through them too."  So they
    let us play through.  The rest of the round was great, nobody holding
    us up and those four bone-heads behind us were left in a cloud of dust
    and a hardy "Hi-o Silver". :-)