Conference 7.286::golf

One of my favorite places to go on vacation is Hilton Head, SC. We have gone
there twice and anticipate going back next spring.  It is only about 40 miles
from Savannah.  There are quite a few courses on the island.  Both times we
have gone there we have rented condos through the Sea Pines Company.

This gets you easy access to seven courses.  My favorite is Harbour Town,
home of the Heritage Classic, and member of Golf Digest's top 30 US courses.
It is a pretty short course (only about 6600 yards from the championship
tees.)  It makes up for it with small greens.  The greens put very true.
It will improve the putting of even a bad putter.  The down side is the
rough.  They do have rough there.  You don't have to be long off the tee
but you have to keep the ball in play.  (The second time I played there I
kept the driver in the bag the whole round, execpt to measure my two club
lengths of relief.)  There are several other good courses you can play
Shipyard is a good test (3 nines) any combination for 18 is a good test.
In Port Royal the Port Royal course is a good test.  A word of warning
go to the range and hit a few balls before you head out.  The first drive
is not the easiest shot you'll face.  Also in Port Royal one of two courses
will be open to the public.  Each month one is open to the public, the
other to the members.  We enjoyed our round there.  

In Sea Pines there is also the Sea Marsh & Ocean courses.  These are good
courses but compared to the others it's like ordering a carafe of the house
wine instead of finer vintage wines.  We were on a golf package with
Sea Pines which got us access to all seven courses.  There is a surcharge
for Harbour Town.  We found out the last time that the greens fees are all
day based upon available space.  Carts are required before about 2-3.  But
being a resort course the walk between holes is often as long as the hole 
itself.

One very nice restaurant is Picses.  One of my friends here at DEC (who is
prone to overstatement) says it is by far the finest restaurant he's ever
eaten at.  It is very good, but also expensive.  When talking with the
hostess she said the debate on the island was between there & the Commodore
as to which is better.  A good family restaurant in the Crab Catcher my wife
& two year old liked it.

Well worth the trip is a visit to Mrs. Wilkes Boarding House in Savannah.
It's located on West Jones Street (there is not sign just look for the
line, you won't miss it.)  The restaurant is part of a boarding house.
It is only open for breakfast & lunch.  We stopped for lunch.  For $5.00
you are served family style at tables of 8-10 vast quantities of delicious
authentic Southern cooking.  Truly one of this worlds best bargains.  Don't
miss it!

The beaches are good there.  In May the water temperature was in the 70's.
There is also a reasonable amount of shopping if your traveling companions
do that to relax instead of golf.

Finally one of the favorite things to do on Hilton Head is to head to the
Harbour Town basis find a seat along the docks, in one of the lounges,
or restaurants and sit back with a Gin & Tonic, relax, and watch the
sun set across the Calibouge Sound (Pronounced Cal-i-Bogey).  You would be 
amazed at the number of people you'll find there each evening.

Does anyone know someone who can get me on the Long Cove Club on the island?
We haven't stayed at Palmetto Dunes but they have 3 good 18 hole courses. 
(Second hand knowledge from people we've met there.)

Enjoy your trip

Larry

	 Re .0

	 If you  think  you  don't  have  enough  vacation  time,  give  the
	 personnel  department  at  the Stockholm office a call.  We have at
	 least 25 days of vacation. You poor Americans... :-)

	 -- POL

    
    I've been to Myrtle Beach several times and have played most of
    the 40+ courses.  If you like the combination of golf, nightlife,
    and great beaches, this is the place to go.  I usually go in the
    summer and play in the afternoon after recovering from the night
    before by floating on a raft in the ocean all morning.  In the
    summer, the courses are deserted by noon so you can just drive
    up and go right to the tee.
    
    If anyone is going and wants to know which courses to play and
    avoid, send me mail.  I will say that the Heritage is even better
    than Oyster Bay or Marsh Harbour, and have heard that Sea Trail
    is a great track too!
    
    I just spent 10 days in April golfing around California.  I played
    36 holes at LaCosta, went to Palm Desert and played PGA West, drove
    to Monterey and played Spyglass Hill, Poppy Hills, and finally
    Pebble Beach.   As they say in California... totally awesome!
    
    Monterey is a very clean little town, not a lot happening for night
    life but very nice.   From what I heard, if you stay at the Pebble
    Beach Lodge they can get you on Cypress Point (maybe).  We stayed
    at a very nice little hotel (they all look new) for $45 a night.
    I would not advise playing Poppy Hills although it's recommended.
    Pebble was $125, Poppy $75, and Spyglass $65 (no cart).  You can
    easily walk Spyglass, the others required a cart.
    
    Palm Desert would be a great place for a vacation too.  You have
    PGA West, LaQuinta, Rancho Mirage, etc...  PGA West was $100.
    It is where they hold the Skins Game.  EVERYONE should play PGA
    West!!  Every foursome had at least 2 cameras!!
    
    It was supposed to be a "once in a lifetime" trip... I can't wait
    to go back!!!
    
    Tom DesRochers
    

    I have been to two places on golfing vacations- neither of them
    are the real "glamour" spots, but were fun nevertheless.
    
    A place that is close by for we New Englanders is Lake Morey resort
    in Fairlee, Vt. They offer a package with breakfast and dinner and
    greens fees included (along with your room, of course). Lake Morey
    Inn is an older structure, and definitely not "fancy" but clean
    and comfortable. The course is not a HUGE challenge, but seems just
    right for my wife and me. Neither of us is a great golfer, and we
    have an enjoyable time playing.
    
    The only drawback to Lake Morey is that it is in the "boonies",
    so to speak. After your round of golf and dinner, there is not an
    awful lot to do but sit in their lounge. There are no TV's in most
    of the "non-deluxe" rooms ( they do have a community TV room), and
    it's a long ride to gift shops,etc. However , if you need to
    "decompress" and get away from it all to just sleep, eat, and golf-
    which is why we went there- it's a swell place.
    
    The other place my wife and I have gone to is Sanibel Island, Fla.
    There are no Golf Packages per se, we just rent a condo on the beach,
    and go golfing at the local 18 holer called "The Dunes". This again,
    is not a real challeneging course to look at it- the front nine
    is called "the Mild Nine"- 6 par 3's and 3 par 4's; the back nine-
    the "Wild Nine"- is regulation size- par 5, two par 3's and 6 par
    4's. HOWEVER- there is water on EVERY hole on the course, the fairways
    are extremely narrow, and the greens well bunkered. If one does
    not hit the ball ABSOLUTELY straight on your tee shot, reload!!!
    
    Sanibel is a great place to visit. Tons of shops, good restaurants
    of every variety imaginable, lots of Nature Study type of wild life,
    and very beautiful. There also is Human type of wild life there
    too, with several nite spots to occupy your evenings if that's your
    thing.
    
    We are going to Stratton Mt. on a Golf Pkg. in a couple of weeks.
    I'll add that critique later.
    
    Regards,
    
    Stan Znamierowski

I just recently got back from a vacation in Williamsburg.  It is a good
place to go with a non-golfing spouse because there is so much to do
in the area.  There is Colonial Williamsburg, Busch Gardens, Yorktown,
and Jamestown all near by.

We rented a condo in the Kingsmill resort.  They have 2 18 hole courses 
there.  The River course is the home of the Anheser-Busch Golf tournament.  
It is a good course that tests your whole game.  The Plantation Course, the
newer course there is a easier test.  Both courses have firm hard greens
with multiple levels, swales, etc.  The greens do putt true.  If you are
not used to such severe undulations and end up a good distance from the
flag you'll three putt more than you like.  (Both of these courses are
open to the public, you don't have to stay @ Kingsmill.)

There are several other courses in the area that I did not play but
I played with several people that had played there and recommended them.
There is an 18 hole course at the Williamsburg Inn called the Golden
Horseshoe that is supposed to be very good.  Also at Ford's Colony there
is at least one course that was supposed to be real good.  (The people
that I talked to said it was very tight with lots of water, so it is
not the place to go if you do not drive well.)

We went out to eat at the clubhouse at Kingsmill.  (Jackets required)
which was very good and a expensive (but it was our anniversary so who
cared.)  We ate at Cristina Cambell's Tavern in Colonial Williamsburg.
Reservations are highly recommended.  Unfortunately they seat people
in groups so the service feels very mechanical, but the food was good
and reasonably priced.

    re .5
    	How much did it cost to play the courses at Kingsmill? I will
    be going to vaca later this summer in Williamsburg later this summer
    and may try to bring the clubs along. The Golden Horseshoe is $45
    for 18 and a cart is $20. I was hoping to get away with only $25
    for a round, or so. Thanks for any info.
    
    Keith

                        PINEHURST CC
    I went to Pinehurst N.C for golf school in May. It cost 1150.00
    which included the following;
    - 6 days of school
    -all the golf you can play with cart
    - all the golf ball you can hit
    - three meal a day
    - hotel room
    - 30% dicount in pro shop
    - special bag handling
    - locker at the club house
    - and much more
    Pinehurst offers 7 different courses and offer packages if the school
    does not interest you.  Pinehurst offers the number 2 course which
    is rated in the top 10 by golf digest.  They have course to match
    all skill sets.  It a great take, I'm going back again next year.
     Also a good place for non-golfers, they offer tenis, horse back
    rideing, bike riding, boating, and much more.  try it you will like
    it.
    
    regards
    
    Peter

    
    RE:.7
    
    Peter,
    
    What was your impression of the golf school? Was it worth while?
    Did you find that it improved your game?
    
    
    Thanks
    Gene

My favorite course is at the Mauna Lani Resort on the Big Island of Hawaii.
Those lucky sales reps that won DECATHLON !!!.   This course is carved
entirely out of lava.... You think that your ball can take a wild bounce off
of trees... try lava.... (and if it does by luck bounce back in the fairway)
it will probably be all cut up). This course has beautiful Par 3's...One has 
a huge lava rock right in front of the green... another you have to hit it
over the Pacific Ocean.

This is a great island for a vacation.... Not as crowded as the other islands.
A helicopter ride around the island is a must...

Elizabeth

    My wife and I went to Stratton Mt., Vt. last week on a Golf Package.
    Stratton offers a Golf School, but neither of us wanted anyone
    tinkeringwith our swings and screwing up our heads, so we just went
    to golf.
    
    Somewhere else in here I read that the last winter in Vermont was
    extremely unkind to golf courses. I believe it. The greens were
    atrocious! You had to take a preferred lie on the greens to putt.
    
    Stratton has three 9 hole courses. You play 2 of the 3 for your
    18 holes. The "Mountain" course is obviously the oldest, and is
    in good condition (except for the greens), the "Lake" course is
    in fair condition (except for....), and the "Forest" course- the
    newest course, only a year or two old, is a "Cow Pasture". The design
    of the courses is interesting, and of course, the views are
    magnificent.
    
    I think they need a new Grounds Superintendent, or have to devise
    a way to prevent the Winter damage. BTW, they offer a Yardage and
    Strategy book for the courses for $5.95. What a joke. I thumbed
    thru it, and looked at a couple of the holes. A hole with water
    on the left is described: "Your tee shot must favor the right side
    of the fairway......" No kidding......
    
    As for the resort itself, it is really interesting, and has some
    good restaurants. The accomodations were average.
    
    Would I go back? Probably not. For the expense, you can do better
    elsewhere. It still was fun, and was challenging on the course.
    The "Mountain" course has a par 5 that is 621 yds. from the blue
    tees. Also it was good to get away, and play every day.

    Ammonoosuc Inn on Bishop Road in Lisbon, NH
    (603) 838-6118 Chuck & Nancy Filias
    
    * Check-in time Friday 2 PM
    * Check-out time Sunday 11 AM
    
    How to get there!
    --- -- --- -----
    Take Interstate 93 north until you reach Franconia Notch State Park.
    Proceed through the Notch and continue on I-93 to exit 42 (Littleton).
    Take Route 302 west for 7 miles; right on Lyman Road for 1/2 mile;
    left onto Bishop Road for about 3/4 mile. The Inn is on the right!
    
    Getaway Package
    ------- -------
    * $89.00 per person, double occupancy, does not include taxes &
      gratuities
    * 3 days unlimited golf at the adjacent Lisbon Country Club
    * 9 Hole Golf Course +3000 yds
    * 2 Nights Accommodations
    * 2 Dinners (You will be pleasantly surprised at the numerous
                 menu selections, portions & quality)
    * 3 Continental Breakfasts (All homemade Danish, Muffins, Coffee
                                & Juices)
    Additional Costs 
    ---------- -----
    * Gas Golf Cart $15.00 per day
    * Cash Bar
    * 1/2 hr Golf Lesson $7.50
    

A fun vacation spot for the family that still can meet your golf needs is
Disney World.  Besides the Magic Kingdom and EPCOT there are three golf
courses on the premises.  The courses are the Magnolia, Palm, and Lake Buena
Vista.  These three courses hold the Oldsmobile tournament here in October
with the final round played on the Magnolia course.

I played both the Palm and Magnolia courses.  If I remember correctly the
Magnolia course had more water.  I played shortly after the tournament and
they had not yet got an opportunity to cut the rough.  It was literally
5-6 inches tall.  The person I was  playing with found 4 balls in the rough
all within a club length of the fairway.  The rough is not normally that bad
they had gotten a lot of rain right after the tournament and could not get
out to mow.

People that I talked with said the Lake Buena Vista course was considerably 
easier than the other two courses.  There is club storage available and I
would recommend this if you are staying on the property.  Then you can catch
the shuttle bus.  It's great a morning round at the course and then meet
the family at Sapce Mountain.  So much fun in one day should be illeal.

P.S.  The courses are definitely championship caliber, not Mickey Mouse
courses.

    I was wondering if someone could recommend a place in either Vermont
    or New Hampshire for a good weekend vacation. I am looking for
    somewhere that there are other things to do besides golf. Ideally,
    it would be somewhere where you could play a round at 7 am and then
    you could spend the rest of the day doing things. Last year we went
    to Woodstock, Vt. and had a good time. Any recommendations?
    
    Thanks
    Tim
    

    I'd suggest staying at Mount Washington Hotel at Bretton Woods which
    offers golf, tennis, pool, horseback etc.  Then you can do the Cog railway
    tour or go into the North Conway area.  No, I have never done this,
    but we do stop at the hotel for lunch occasionally...very scenic.
    Regards
    Joe C
    

    
    The Balsams, Dixville Notch, N.H....!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    
    A nine hole course and a Donald Ross designed 18 hole course.
    Other attractions include; swimminging pool, lake (for canoeing,
    paddle boats, rowboats, fishing [they will clean and cook your
    fish for you, no license needed]), about 6 tennis courts, hicking
    trails, volley ball, game room with pool tables - ping pong -
    arcade games, lounging, etc. etc. etc....! All meals are included.
    I just can't say enough about it. There is a toll free number that
    I don't know off hand but I am sure that information will give it
    to you...
    
    Gene

    Two summers ago I went to Killington with my wife in mid July. 
    They had an equestrian event which I believe is still held every
    Summer there.
    
    The course ON Mt. Killington is quite an experience.  It took me
    a year to regain confidence in my golf game after that day. 
    
    Quechee Vermont has several excellent courses in the area.
    
    

                    <<< USER$1:[NOTES$LIBRARY]GOLF.NOTE;1 >>>
                               -< The Good Game >-
================================================================================
Note 15.0                 Get-Away Weekend for Golfers                No replies
POTTER::MPASCARELLI "Mark 'PASCO' Pascarelli"        40 lines  18-JUN-1986 13:21
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I thought some of you golfers might like to hear about a nice
place to go for the week-end.  

The Inn At Poland Springs

This is a no frills , inn type place located in Poland Springs Maine.
Take exit 11 (gray) then rt. 26. The property includes a very well 
kept golf course. I just returned from my 3'rd annual trip and this 
year played 45 holes of golf in 2 days. Shopping in Freeport 
( 1/2 hour away) is available for non-golf playing spouses.

There are only 2 ways to stay at the inn. 
1) a weekend includes fri and sat nite. 1 dinner and 2 breakfasts
2) weekday package includes sun - thurs. 5 nites/ 5 dinners/ 5 breakfasts

the weekend costs us $100 per couple including tip and tax but excluding
golf.

The course has some very scenic views. The price of 18 holes is $7 for 
guests of the inn and you can play all day for that price. Golf carts 
are available for an added fee.

The course has two par 5's  and  three par 3's for a total of 71. It is
ranked by the U.S.G.A. as 69.9 for men and 73 for women. The greens are 
trickey and many have multiple levels. Only 2 holes have water nearby.
There are two extremely long par 4's at 475 yrds and 449 yrds. Also
one of the par 3's is 243 yrds but seems like 300. The shortest hole is
par 3 -- 160 yards and the longest is par 5 -- 554 yards.

If you decide to play this course phone ahead and reserve tee times. 
Members only before 9:00 but non-members are allowed to jump in if there 
are no members on the 1'st tee. Between 9:00 and 11:30 non-members and 
Inn guests ONLY (no members). Tee times are used for between 9:00 and 
11:30. After that time members and non-members alike play on a first 
come first served basis.



Pasco (still sunburned and sore from 45 holes)

                    <<< USER$1:[NOTES$LIBRARY]GOLF.NOTE;1 >>>
                               -< The Good Game >-
================================================================================
Note 20.0                        Yank in Ireland                      No replies
BRAHMS::DARCY "George Darcy"                         20 lines   2-JUL-1986 21:39
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    I'm an American who just came back from Ireland on vacation.
    I played at three courses and enjoyed all of them.  One was
    in Howth, Dublin called Deer Park.  The other two were in Cork
    - in Midleton and Youghal.
    
    It's interesting to note that green's fees in Ireland are about
    5 dollars (US) and one can play as many holes.  The fareways are
    never watered and they are the greenest I've ever seen.
    
    The greens are faster than in the US.  Also, the rough is thicker
    and deeper than US.
    
    Little kids parade around the edges of the courses, finding golf
    balls, and selling them to players.  Golf balls are incidentally,
    twice as expensive than the US.
    
    One thing I liked was that the difficulty index was listed on each
    hole on a signpost, whereas they do not post them in the US.
    
    George

    Just got back from Myrtle Beach. What a time. I golfed OK but had
    a marvelous time with the group I went with. We played 6 courses,
    4 of which are brand new for this year. Here's some of what I thought
    of the courses we played:
    
    Robber's Roost:
    We played this one on the first day. Relatively speaking, it is
    a pretty easy course and a good warm up. It is an established course
    and seems to be in good shape.
    
    The Pearl:
    A new 36 hole complex. We played only one of the courses. I felt
    this was a really easy course and would have been nicer from the
    back tees. I scored well here.
    
    Heather Glen:
    Gorgeous, gorgeous, gorgeous. What a course. I wish I played better
    here. It's a lot like Scotish courses with the waste areas and very
    *VERY* deep pot bunkers.
    
    Lockwood Links:
    Another new course. It is a pretty course but didn't really tickle
    my fancy. It seemed like almost every hole was enclosed in the woods
    and you had to drive 8 miles from the green you were finishing to
    the next tee. We played the back tees here. It was long and very
    tough. There is 1 hole on this course that was designed by Mickey
    Mouse. It was a dogleg left. You have to hit a 260-270 yard drive
    in order to hit to the green. If you are anything short of this,
    the trees in the dogleg totally block out your second shot. You
    need about an 8 iron to go over the trees and unless you hit about
    a 165 yard 8 iron, you aren't going to hit this green. I was upset
    to see my 250 yard blast ~160 yards to the hole with absolutely
    no shot.
    
    Sandpiper Bay:
    Yet another new course. My group of 12 was about the only people
    at this course. My best score for the week was here (82 and I was
    medalist that day). It is an easy course. Very open and not too
    much trouble. The hazards on the course define the hitting areas
    and these areas are fairly big. It is a good long hitters course
    because it has 3 par 5s on the front and 2 on the back.
    
    River Oaks:
    The last course we played. It is also new. Everyone in the group
    liked River Oaks layout but it had some drawbacks. The course seems
    to have been built on Marsh land because it was awful soggy. Some
    holes were tight but they were not 450 yard par 4s. This course
    was one of my favorites (along with The Pearl and Heather Glen).
    The green were slow but it was wet there. The green also very well
    designed. As someone put it, they were built on an elephant cemetery.
    They had undulations in them but they were very fair. This was another
    course I scored well on.
    
    We stayed at the Ocean Sands and the rooms were very spacious for
    4 people. It cost me about $350 or so for the hotel and golf with
    the trip. Of course, that does not include $2 Nasaus, other side
    bets and food & entertainment.
    
    Mike
    
    PS - If you go to Myrtle Beach, you have to attend the "ballet".
         The place to go is The Doll House. Ask for a table dancer named
         Sabrina.

    re:  The Doll House
    
    My brother and a bunch of guys from our course just came back from
    M.B. and all they talked about was the Doll House.  Took 2 days
    to finally get some golf stories out of them....
    
    Chuck

    

    RE: .19
        
>        PS - If you go to Myrtle Beach, you have to attend the "ballet".
>         The place to go is The Doll House. Ask for a table dancer named
>         Sabrina.
    
    Can you tell us what color her tutu was? :-}
    
    						KO

    Re .21:
    
    Her tutu.... yea, it was skin colored if you know what I mean :-).
    
    Mike who almost won a free year's admission to the Doll House in
    one of our tournaments.

    The wife and I just got back from Hawaii, played the Blue and Orange
    course in Wileia (spelling?), they were in excellent shape with
    great views, cost was $48 for both of us for 18. Weleia is in Maui.
    
    We played the Princeville course in Kauai, this is where they play
    the ladies Kemper open, we were very disapointed with the course,
    there were weed everywhere, green fee's for 18 were $98 for two,
    the layout wasn't bad but $98 for weeds? 

I just returned from a week in the San Fransico area.  We spent several days in 
the Monterey area.  In a triumph of love over logic I convinced my wife that I 
needed to play Pebble Beach, Spyglass Hill, Spanish Bay, and Poppy Hills.  A 
triumph of love because at the average price to play these courses is $100.  It
was an easier arguement since our airfare from Boston was free because we 
voluntarily got bumped from a flight on our last vacation.  It was definitely
worth it because now during those cold winters months when it's snowing outside
I can close my eyes and remember.  Here are my impressions: 

SPYGLASS HILL

A fair but difficult course.  Wanders through sand dunes and pine trees.  Very 
fast greens (but they roll true, ball never hops off line).  Greens are small 
and surrounded by bunkers & rough.  Easier when the wind is down.  Only across 
the street from the Pacific so it should be quite difficult if the wind came 
up.  You can wander off the fairway and still have a chance to recover.  
However don't hit it into the Ice Plant in the rough.  This plant must be 
related to the cactus.  It is a weed type plant with leaves about 1/4" thick 
that are 99% water.  You are doing well if you can hit a wedge 20 yards out of 
that stuff.

PEBBLE BEACH

The Sistine Chapel of golf someone called it.  The course quickly heads to the 
ocean where the 4-10 holes play along the ocean cliffs (with the water on your 
right, not for a chronic slice).  It then returns inland until the 17 and 18th 
holes.  The views are specaular and can quickly take your mind off your 
problems if you are playing poorly.  If you are playing well it just adds to 
the enjoyment.  

The greens are fast however they aren't as tightly guarded as Spyglass so if
you're short on the longer holes you can play a little bump & run.  The course
is over priced $125 + cart or caddie.  For that reason many people feel that it
isn't a good course.  I feel that it is a good course.  It's also great to 
remember the great US Opens held there in the past.  How can you resist 
dropping a ball on 17 & pretend you are Tom Watson trying to chip in?

When I played the person I played with (a 12 handicap) birdied 4, 5, and just 
missed on the 6th.  However on the way back in the wind came up and was dead in 
our face.  This made the "boring in-land" holes quite difficult.

THE LINKS AT SPANISH BAY

This is a new course that I feel is destined to make the Golf Digest Top 100 
list.  It is a links type course that except for 1 or 2 holese wanders around 
through the sand dunes next to the Pacific.  It is a short course (6100 yards 
from the white tees) that requires you to think and play control golf.  On 
several holes your driver belongs in the bag as position is most important.

The course is planted with a fescue grass which is much more wirey that other 
grasses.  This type of grass is supposed to be similar to that used in 
Scotland.  The ball tends to land softly and stop faster.  This is very
helpful because the green is often tucked around behind some sand dune.  This 
same grass is also on the greens which makes them significantly slower than the 
other courses I played.  I would suggesst playing it first or last so as not to 
totally ruin your putting for the other courses.

The day I played here a fog bank sat over the course for the whole round.  It 
was definitely sweater plus windbreaker weather.  Meanwhile my wife and 
daughter were 2 miles down the road in their bathing suits at the beach.  The 
fog added just the right touch with the addition of bag pipes you would swear 
you were in Scotland.

POPPY HILLS

This was the cheapest course of the bunch $80 with cart, but you can carry your 
bag.  It is the new home of the Northern California Golf Assoc.  It is a tight 
course  with lots of rough.  Don't step up to the first tee and expect to take 
a few holes to loosen up.  The tee shot requires a straight drive to a narrow 
fairway that must carry about 200 yds before you reach the fairway.  There is 
also a trap that comes into play off the tee and the right side of the fairway 
falls off quickly.  You can get into trouble quickly and your day would go down 
hill from there.

However once you reach the greens at Poppy Hills you probably will wish you 
were back in the rough.  I collect caddie books.  In the pro shop in addition 
to the typical yardage book they had one describing the greens.  It has their 
contours and breaks.  I thought this a cute idea but probably not really 
useful.  That was until I got onto the course.  The greens are as fast as 
Pebble or Spyglass but they have severe mounds, ridges, and slopes running 
through them.  There was also a lot of deep rough around the greens so that if
you missed them chipping out was very difficult.

This course is located up in the hills and you can barely see the ocean off in 
the distance on one or two holes.  It is totally different from the other 
three.  When I finally decided to try play the course by playing the shots it 
gave me my score improved, but between working it around the course and the 
greens it was not a whole lot of fun.  In all fairness I think that this course 
could probably grow on you the more you play it.  Before you go I would suggest 
that you practice putting down a flight of marble stairs and try to stop the 
ball on the next to last step.  When you can do that you'll have no problem.
I also think that maybe they'll make some adjustments to the course in the next 
several years.

CONCLUSION

If you get a chance to play any or all of these courses I suggest you do so.  
Don't be cheap you may never forgive yourself.  The arguement among the locals 
is which is the better course Spyglass or Pebble Beach.  If I had to pick only 
one course to play for the rest of my life it would be either Spyglass or 
Spanish Bay.  If you don't plan to go to Scotland you might want to play 
Spanish Bay to see how different golf can be on a links course.

    
    	I am heading up to Sugarloaf in Carrabassett Maine for the week
    	next week for a little vacation/golf/honeymoon. An article in
    	an olded Golf Digest spoke highly of it. Has anybody played
   	it this year? Any reports? Any guestimates on how long it will
    	take to get there from the Manchester, NH area? Is it at all
    	busy during the week?
    
    	Thanks for any info...
    	Gene

Gene,

	I'll attempt to beat Jim to the punch.  Most of the people I know up
	here have played it early (Before the influx of tourist) but I'll check
	into it for you.  Allot of skiers come up from that neck of the
	woods check out some notes in DSSDEV::SKIING as for times and distance/
	directions, I think your best bet would be to come up the Me. pike to
	the south Portland exit #6A.  After the Toll booth take the 295 north
	on ramp which will take you around Portland and merge back w/ 95 north
	(stop at L&L Beans of course in Freeport).  You'll then merge back up
	with the Me. Turnpike in Gardiner.  Six Miles up the road you'll be in
	Augusta and Merge back into I95 for about 4 miles to exit 36B (Belgrade
	Lakes Region) rt.27 north (This route will save money on tolls/smokeys
	as well as as time, else travel up the turnpike all the way to
	Augusta).  You will pass by the DEC ASO facility.  Be especially
	watchful when on the other side of Farmington for 27North as it will
	take a right hand turn.  Your next big township is Kingsfield and the
	Loaf is not far from there.  There will be plenty of signs, and you'll
	see the ski slopes cut into the mountain when you get close enough.
	Watch out for the @#$%&* Pulp trucks.

	Bring plenty of Balls as the course is very narrow with woods of course
	all around you.  You'll need to take a cart as the terrain is a BEAR.
	Lots of fairway/bunkers and elevated tees/greens.  Also you may want to
	play Mingosprings in Rangly.  Some members of our league will be
	playing in what we call our 3rd Annual Northern Tour 16-17 Sept.  So if
	you enjoy em enough....

	Then there's always Augusta Country Club.... *^)

	Regards, Kevin Tourism_Spec. II *^)

    re.26 
    
    	Kevin, do you do anything besides read NOTESFILES ?
    
    re.25
    
    	I played Sugarloaf 2 weeks ago on a Saturday...The course is
    in EXCELLENT shape....Cost is $29 on weekends, I think $24 weekdays.
    Carts were also around $20...
    
    	Where are you staying ??? The Sugarloaf Inn right on the mountain
    is fantastic. I believe they even have some package deals..Phone
    number is <207>237-2000... 
    
    	Kevin's directions are your best bet....Just wait until you
    go around "Oh My Gosh" corner...That's the first place you see the
    mountain...It is awseome !
    
    
     Here's the par's and distances
    
    	1-400-4 	10-275-4
    	2-518-5         11-200-3  (tee is 180 feet above
    	3-190-3         12-520-4     the tee)
    	4-508-5         13-373-4
    	5-385-4         14-327-4
    	6-362-4         15-167-3
    	7-354-4         16-509-5
    	8-172-3         17-365-4
    	9-392-4         18-384-4
    	-------         --------
    	 3280-36         3120-36
    
    
    Have Fun......
    
    
    Jim 
    

    Re:< Note 121.27 by RANGLY::STEVENS_JIM >

    I hate  to  be  picky  by  I  am sure you meant par 5 on the 12th.  I
    wouldn't like to play a 520 yard par 4 :-)
    
    

    re: . 28
    
    
    Your right !!
    
    Oh, but what a hole that would have been !!!
    
    Jim
    

Re.26  	Augusta and Merge back into I95 for about 4 miles to exit 36B (Belgrade
	Lakes Region) rt.27 north (This route will save money on tolls/smokeys

        Ooooppps, that's 31B vice 36B.
    
    	As far as crowds, most say it's not bad but you can only make
    	tee times one week prior.  Mingosprings is about 30 miles away
    	on rt. 31W
    
    	Good luck and let us know your thoughts!             Kevin,

    
    	Well, here are my thoughts on Sugarloaf. It is a TOUGH, beautiful,
    	and VERY CHALLENGING course. TIGHT sums it up best I guess.
    	Nice layout (Robert Trent Jones Jr.), it has huge greens, lots
    	of slopes (some severe). The 11th, a par three, is beautiful
    	with the tee 125 feet above the green and the river in between.
    	The 6th was a challenge with your second shot having to travel
    	about 150 yds. up a 70 degree incline to the green. And just
    	before you get to the challenge of the 6th, the 5th is the #1
    	handicap hole playing 385 from the whites with the fairway
    	sloping right and a BIG tree right in the way of your second
    	shot. All the par fives are double doglegs which make reaching
    	them in 2 next to impossible...! The ____ river winds through
    	most of the holes on the back nine. This course is NOT for the
    	beginner...
    
    	Gene
    	Gene

    I'll be in the Washington, D.C. area next week and was wondering about
    playing golf there. I will be on my own time and don't mind traveling a
    couple of hours to play a good course. What I don't know is:
    
    Are the courses open now?
    
    Where are some worthwhile apponents?   (courses)
    
    Should I consider driving down to North or South Carolina?
    
    
    Thank you.
    
    Dave

     I'm going to Las Vegas for a few days at the end of April. 
     I plan on (hopefully) playing at least one round.  If any 
     noters have played golf in Vegas, then please let me know 
     your opinion on what course(s) to play.  The golf is not cheap...
     it ranges between $50 - $100 per round.

     BTW, one of the early rounds of the Las Vegas Invitational 
     is going to be held at the Desert Inn (where I'm staying) 
     so the course will probably be in great shape.  I'll be in
     Vegas the same time the tourney is being held, so I'm hoping 
     to be able to play the Desert Inn course a day or two after 
     the tourney.

     Thanks in advance for any comments.

     - Malcolm

    I have played all of the older courses in Vegas, and to tell you
    the truth, if you have a rental car or there is a bus that goes
    out every day, the best course out there is Calvada Country club
    in pahrumph(I think thats how you spell it). This course is kept
    in excellent condition, the greens are better than any other course
    in Vegas and it costs 17 bucks to play.  The next best course that
    I found was the Dunes course, it is a long course with lots of
    challenges but plays well.  The Sahara is a nice course thats not
    unusually long but reward the good shot and penalizes the bad. I
    wouldn't waste my time at the Tropicana as its a short course with
    some blind water off the tee and the greens were like bristle brushes.
    I  hope that helps. All the prices were about 50 bucks except Calvada
    and the desert inn, I think that is about 90 if your staying at
    the hotel.
    
    Bill

I know it's long overdue but here's this year's vacation trip report (we went
in April).

First stop Tampa.  We stayed at the Innisbrook resort in Tarpon Springs.  This
is definitely a 4 star resort.  It has 63 holes of golf available.  The 
Copperhead course is on the Golf Digest top 100 course list.  It definitely
deserves to be.  The course is NOT a typical Florida course (you know flat,
traps & water).  It is hilly running through piney woods.  On several holes
you will swear that you are in New England.  I like the combination of the
#1 & #2 nines the best; course rating 70.8/slope 129 (whites), 73.5/135 
(blues).  The course was perfectly manicured and in great shape.  It's 7031 
yds. from the blues, 6440 from the whites.  Ball position and course management
are key here.

The Island course at Innisbrook is also a good course, but it is less hilly
than the Copperhead course.  It is a little more wide open.  The vital stats
are Blues: 6999 yds, 73.2/slope 133, Whites 6557, 71.3/slope 129.  We didn't
play the third course.  They said that it was the easiest of the bunch.  (It's 
only 6006 yds. from the blues.)

The condos were spacious and comfortable.  The grounds are well kept.  Shuttle 
buses run constantly around the resort, just flag one down & you are one your 
way.  If you want to stay entirely on the resort you wouldn't need to rent a 
car.  They have shuttle service from the airport.  It wasn't cheap but 
you have to play Copperhead, if you have the chance.  They say a good time to 
go for cheap rates, great golf, and reasonable weather is late September).

A couple side notes:  The three courses are disbursed around the resort and 
each have their own clubhouse.  They have a great system to get your clubs to 
the right course for your next round.  (Feel like sneaking in a quick nine in 
the afternoon.  Just call ahead, by the time you arrive your clubs will be 
there.)  

There is a quaint restaurant named the Schoolhouse on Alt Rte 19.  It's an old
one room school house that was converted.  There aren't too many tables so get 
there early.

From Tampa we drove south to Fort Meyers to visit some friends.  While in the 
area we played the Eastwood Golf Course which is one Golf Digest's top 75 
public course list.  It's a good course, but the fairway's are generously wide.
(Interesting side note:  Eastwood took a survey of the player's & found that
the preferred starting time was 8:30.  So on weekends they have a shotgun start
at 8:30.  I think it is a great idea.)

Also while in the Tampa area we played at Kelly Greens.  This is a good course 
associated with a housing development.  They plan on taking it private in the
future, so play it while you can.  Water comes into play on a lot of holes.  

From Fort Meyers we drove up towards Orlando.  We stayed at Grenelefe in 
Grenelefe.  (It's about 1/2 hour from Disney, it's near Boardwalk & Baseball 
and Cyrpess Gardens.)  They have three 18's there.  From most to least 
challenging were the 7325 yd. West, 6802 yd. East, and the 6869 yd. South.
The West & East are pretty tight, the South more open.  I think the resort
is focused more on it's conference center and the groups it draws.  (There
was an airconditioning group there when we were there that packed out one
of the courses one day.)  Some of the condos were showing their age & need to 
be updated.  As I remember the nightly fee wasn't too bad including golf.  
However one note Grenelefe is in the middle of no where so things on the resort 
(meals at their restaurants, etc.) are more expensive.  Since we were generally
playing a quick 18 and off to Disney, etc. we usually found somewhere more 
reasonable in the Orlando area to eat.

Summary:
Innisbrook - thumbs up,  I hope to return some day.
Ft. Meyers - A couple of entertaining courses, if you find yourself in the area
Grenelefe - OK, but not worth a second visit.

Once after managing a very stressful project to completion (before DEC) I 
departed on a 3 week golfing extravaganza vacation to try to recover from burn 
out.  

First I started with a Golf Digest Mini School at Sea Island, GA.  (The
teachers were Davis Love & Jimmy Hodges who were killed in an airplane crash
earlier this year.)  The course was great, Sea Island has got one of the best
practice ranges in the world.  Classes were in the morning, after lunch you
could get in 18 holes.  I played 3 out of the 4 nines.  Some of the holes were
tight, but others allowed more margin for error.  The course was interesting
and a good test of golf.  

I stayed at the Cloister which is an old fashioned hotel.  (They just recently
added TV's to the rooms, hid in amoirs.  Many of the regulars were up in arms
about it.)  You are assigned a table in restaurant for meals.  The second meal
there I caught the maitre d' sneaking a glimpse on his chart for my name, but
after that he greated me by name (without looking) I was impressed.  The place 
is expensive and so old fashioned that they don't take credit cards.  The 
service and atmosphere is may be suited for a king, it's definitely suited for
presidents, Jimmy Carter stayed here while president.

After successfully destressing I drove up to Hilton Head (described in a 
previous note) to join my wife and other friends.  From Hilton Head I drove
up to Wild Dunes in Charleston, SC.  This is a very good course, with the
best part the last three holes which ran through the sand dunes along the 
ocean.  I read that Hurricane Hugo has pretty much wiped them out which would
be tragic.  The 18th was how I dreamed that golf in Scotland was like.  From
the tee you stared out over a see of wild grass, towards some subtlely rolling
terrain, surrounded by grass, and brush should you miscalculate or go astray.

Next stop was Sawgrass.  I played the Sawgrass course which used to be the home 
of the Tournament Player's Championship before it moved across the street to 
the TPC Championship course.  At the time Sawgrass was still on the Golf Digest 
top 100 course list.  It is now overshadowed by it's successor, but is a very
good test of golf.  It is definitely less penal than the TPC, but is still
resistant to scoring.

The next day called for a round at the TPC.  I was grouped with 3 other 
strangers.  We started out playing from the blues (there are gold tees way
back).  It is pretty difficult from the blues (long carries over death to
narrow fairways).  I was doing ok, but it was obvious that the other 3 players 
were in big trouble (and we were rapidly losing the group in front of us).  I 
politely suggested we move to the whites and they jumped at the chance.  From 
the whites it is a little less severe.  I ended up shooting a pretty good 
score, but would my score would have sored if we had stayed at the blues.
In the end the other 3 golfers looked like they had fought a war.  High 
handicappers who are short or erratic may be tempted to play it for the 
experience, but you probably won't have fun.

Time for true confessions.  I made a 5 on the 17th (the island hole).  No I
didn't hit my first one in the water.  It landed on the green and rolled back 
next to one of Dye's diabolical railroad ties.  After a tough chip it was a 
routine 3 putt. ;-)

Finally to wrap up this small slice of golfing heaven we drove down to Disney 
World.  The Magnolia & Palm courses at Disney were in a class with the others
I've described, but there's more about that in another note.

Larry

                    <<< USER$1:[NOTES$LIBRARY]GOLF.NOTE;1 >>>
                               -< The Good Game >-
================================================================================
Note 854.0                DISNEY WORLD GOLF INFO NEEDED               No replies
DNEAST::SLADE_DICK                                   14 lines  25-JAN-1990 08:16
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    I AM GOING TO DISNEY WORLD (FLORIDA) MARCH 11-18. CAN ANY ONE GIVE
    ME CURRENT INFO ON THE COURSES IN DISNEY WORLD. I UNDERSTAND THERE
    ARE THREE COURSES IN DISNEY WORLD. I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW:
    
    1. GREEN FEES
    2. ARE TEE TIMES REQUIRED
    3. ARE CARTS REQUIRED
    4. DIFFERENCES BETWEEN COURSES IF SIGNIFICANT.
    5. HOW LONG TO PLAY ON WEEK DAYS.
    6. ANY LOCAL CLUBS. SAME INFO.
    
    
    
    

 
	This doesn't answer all the questions, but I thought that it might help.
I was at Disney  three weeks ago and from the monorail the Magnolia looked like 
a wonderful course (but I wouldn't expect anything less).  As you may know, the
frost in Florida did lots of damage to the landscape.  I played at Denunin CC on
the West Cost and even the tops of the palm trees were brown.  The grass on the 
greens was replanted and the fairway grass was just beginning to come back.  I
would suspect that by March all the courses at Disney will be in perfect 
condition.

							Larry

               <<< INDMKT::DUA0:[NOTES$LIBRARY]DISNEY.NOTE;2 >>>
                       -< The Disneyphile's Disney File >-
================================================================================
Note 71.0                 Golfing at Walt Disney World                 3 replies
GOONEY::MALONEY                                      12 lines   5-APR-1989 17:05
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    
    		What  about some information about the golf courses
    that are located within WDW?   I would like to know about costs,
    making reservations, renting equipment, best time of the day to
    play?  
    
    		If anyone has played there, perhaps you could share
    your opinions on the courses.   Is it worth the money and time?
    
    		Thanks again to the moderators for this conference.
    
    
================================================================================
Note 71.1                 Golfing at Walt Disney World                    1 of 3
ATE012::CLAUDE "Claude G. Berube"                    48 lines   6-APR-1989 09:41
                                 -< some info >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
rep to <<< Note 71.0 by GOONEY::MALONEY >>>
    
>    		What  about some information about the golf courses
>    that are located within WDW?   I would like to know about costs,
>    making reservations, renting equipment, best time of the day to
>    play?  

    Well I'm not a golfer, but I did stay at the Disney Inn (formerly known
    as  the  Golf  Resort)  and met and talked to a few golfers  there,  so
    keeping that in mind here some info
    
    The Magnolia and Palm  courses  are  18 holes and flank the Disney Inn,
    the  Lake Buena Vista Golf Course also 18 holes is located at the  Walt
    Disney World Village,  with  most  of the villa surrounding the course.
    All three course host  the  Walt Disney World Clasic usually in October
    and for a fee ($3,000) you can play alongside 2 pros.
    
    The  greens fee is about $35 dollars if  memory  serves  me  right  and
    includes  the  required  golf cart.  For more info  on  rates,  and  to
    reserve time call the master starter at (407) 824-3625.
    
    According to the ones I talked too the morning hours  are the best time
    for  play,  cool  and  tends to be peaceful, however they said  it  was
    rather busy at those times  and  required reservation in advance.  Also
    early afternoon was popular for those  who  went  into  the park in the
    morning, and left at noon time to  get away from the crowds, and return
    later.
    
    For  Disney  guest,  once  you have a confirmed  reservation,  you  can
    reserve tee off times, for off-site guest then it's  only seven days in
    advance.

    Rental  equipment/lessons are available at the pro shop located at  the
    Disney Inn.
    
    There is also a Wee Links, a six hole 1,525 yard experimental beginners
    course located at the Disney Inn as well
    
    Course Ratings are as follows
    
        Magnolia - par-72, 5,903 (Ladies) to 7,253 (championship yards)
        Palm - par-72, 5,785 to 6,951 (rated one of the 100  best  by  Golf
             Digest magazine)
        Lake Buena Vista Club - par-72, 6,002 to 6,540 yards
    
    all three course were designed by Joe Lee.
    
    Claude
================================================================================
Note 71.2                 Golfing at Walt Disney World                    2 of 3
WAV14::NEWFELL                                       17 lines  25-MAY-1989 09:43
                                 -< WEE LINKS >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    When I was down in Disney 3 weeks ago, my friend and I played the
    junior course called the Wee Links.  It was a very good course it
    is what I would consider a Par 3 type course.  We played on a Wednesday
    morning about 10:00 and we were the first ones on the green that
    day.  We had called on Tuesday to make a tee time and was told we
    did not need one for this course.  We rented clubs, bag, cart and
    purchased 3 Mickey golf balls a piece and paid for the green fee,
    TOTAL $27.00 a person.  The Wee Links is a 6 hole course but you
    can play it twice (we did).  I thought the price was great for all
    the things we rented.  Also, by playing the Wee Links it gives you
    the chance to see the 2 other Disney owned professional Golf Courses
    and where they play the Golf Classic.  I thought it was real neat.
    The greens are very well kept.
    
    We also ate breakfast before our game at the Disney Inn, "Garden
    Gallery."  We liked that very much.
    
================================================================================
Note 71.3                 Golfing at Walt Disney World                    3 of 3
SEDJAR::BERUBE "Claude G. Berube"                    11 lines  25-MAY-1989 09:55
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
rep to < Note 71.2 by WAV14::NEWFELL >

>    Also, by playing the Wee Links it gives you
>    the chance to see the 2 other Disney owned professional Golf Courses
>    and where they play the Golf Classic.  

    Actually there  are  3 courses, The Magnolia and Palm by the Disney Inn
    and the lake Buena Vista over at the WDW Village area.
    
    Claude    

    GREEN FEES ARE NOW $60.00 ON ALL THREE COURSES. INCLUDES CART AND TAX
    
    RESERVATIONS ARE REQUIRED.  CAN BE MADE 30 DAYS IN ADVANCE

Well I've been back a week from my latest golfing escapade & it's all over
except for the obligatory trip report.  We started on the Big Island of Hawaii
after hitting a couple buckets of balls & practicing putting (the grain on 
those Bermuda greens will drive you to drink) it was time for the first golf of
the new year.

WAIKOLOA VILLAGE

This has to be one of Robert Trent Jones' easiest courses.  Most holes are
reasonable for the average golfer.  Lots of retired golfers playing here, so
we were only able to get out for nine holes.  Next to try some real courses.

MAUNA KEA

This is one of Robert Trent Jones' top five favorite courses.  It is a good
challenge, but a reasonable test unless you are playing from the back tees.
The course is superbly maintained, and the staff still knows the meaning of
customer service.  Lots of interesting holes.  The 3rd hole a par 3 across
a cove to a penisula a land jutting into the Pacific is prettier than the
pictures.  Lots of elevated tees, gives you a good perspective of what you
have to do.  Only knock, yardages on the caddy book were to the front edge,
not the middle.  After 9 holes of under clubbing, I finally reread the book &
found the cure to my problem.

MAUNA LANI

Because this was high season they weren't open to outside play.  We did go over
to look at the course.  Also ate diner in their clubhouse restaurant.  (Great
sunsets.)  Definitely an artifical layout.  The whole resort is hacked out
of a lava field.  (Still on my list of courses to play).

VOLCANO GOLF & CC

We spent two days at the Volcano House in the Volcano Natl Park.  Played this
course one afternoon.  This was a good course for the Mrs., was pretty wide
open, enought nuances that you'ld play better the next time.  It took me
a while to figure out that the holes that looked like empty ponds were probably
from an old volcano.  

From the Big Island we went on to Maui did some obligatory sightseeing
including the charming road to Hana and watching whales.  After that it was
time to add a couple more courses to my vacation list. 

KAPALUA BAY COURSE

This is a very good course that you've probably seen on TV as home of the
Isuzu Kapalua International tournament the end of the year.  The course is not
exceptionally long, (6750 championship, 6150 whites) but the short holes call
for some well executed shots.  This course features another par 3 over a cove
(this one I parred).  The wind and the grain on the greens both come into
play.  (Don't get your ball above the hole, putting with the grain!)  I finally
started to play some golf here.  Made my first birdie of the year on #13 and
lipped out a birdie attempt on the short 14th.  

The sixteenth is an interesting hole.  You hit from an elevated tee across a
pond to the fairway. It is bisected diagonally by a gully from the near left
across up along up to the right of the green.  Shorter hitters have to keep
right, long knockers have to decide if they are going to drive it or lay up. 
The eighteenth is just how you remember it from TV, unfortunately unless you
hit it long like the pro's it will take you three to get on.  Once on you
realize how difficult the green is and how much harder it would be if you were
putting to win the tourney. 

KAPALUA VILLAGE COURSE

This course has the more spectaular views as you play up the mountain.  In 
another note someone said that this was a links type course.  This is the
furthest thing from one.  The first four holes play straight up hill!  Changes
in elevation and the wind are big factors.  On the front 9 if you aren't
playing up hill you are playing from a very elevated hill down hill!  The wind
was really something.  The 9th hole was only playing 109 yards, but was dead
into a gale.  I hit an 8 iron and was short.  The back nine is more rolling
terrain amidst the pineapple fields, until you start to head back down to the
club house.  Which course do I prefer?  I'll be diplomatic and say I prefer the
back 9 on both! 

Alas, it was time to move on & head to Kauai.  We stayed on the north side of
the island in a condo on the Princeville resort.  Unfortunately, the current 
owner an Autrailian had fallen on financial difficulties and was in the process
of being bought out by his two Japanese partners.  This also showed at the
resort, the Sheraton was closed & slowly being renovated, the Ocean course was
closed & also being renovated, and the new Prince course was not fully open. 

PRINCEVILLE MAKAI COURSE (WOODS & LAKE)

We stayed here 5 years ago so playing this course brought back fond memories.
Unfortunately the Woods nine is pretty pedestrian (except from some water).
The Lakes nine is more fun.  The best hole of the bunch is the last which is
a par 5 which crosses a pond twice.  (Was finishing hole of last years Women's
Kemper Open).  Unfortuantely I hit my drive well, but not far enough left to
go for the green in two, maybe the next time.  I was still bummed that the
Ocean nine was closed for renovation.  It's the best of the three.

PRINCEVILLE PRINCE COURSE

They had 10 holes open the other 8 are in various stages of completion from
ready to play to needs the finishing touches put on.  I walked several of the
holes we couldn't play and could see several more from other elevated tees. 
This will be a great course when finished. 

It is another  Robert Trent Jones course.  The terrrain is varied, rolling,
to severe changes in elevation, to wide open with water.  I was talking with 
the pro who said it was just rated, from the back tees it will be the toughest
in Hawaii (76.?) and I believe it.  Many of the holes have no area to bail out.
I don't recommend it for the high handicapper.  They say you have to have a
handicap of 9 or less to play from the back tees.  Before heading out on this
course you definitely have to warm up at the practice range.  The first hole
alone will eat you alive. 

One of the prettiest greens I've every seen is the current 6th a dogleg right. 
It is surrounded in back by a large cliff, with a water fall which feeds a
stream running behind and along the green, along the right side or the fairway,
cutting across the fairway right at the dog leg.  Most golfers will lay up
off the tee and have a long approach shot.  There are traps to the left of the
green to keep you honest.

(One funny thing I saw was on one of the par 5's the second shot requires 200+
yards all carry over a pond.  I was walking to my ball which was a reasonable
tee shot but not long enough to go for it in two even if I hit a long ball.  I
looked down at a sprinkler in passing instead of a yardage it had the one word
"DREAMER"!) 

KAUAI LAGOONS - KIELE COURSE

This is a Jack Nicklaus course at the Westin Kauai.  It was named Golf Digests
new golf resort course of the year in 1989.  It is a great course.  Jack
mixes up the holes well.  There are lots of long par fours, but he has several
short par fours inter-mixed to keep it balanced (short, not easy).  A couple
holes require tee shots across deep & wide gorges!

If you are going to miss a shot you are generally better off, short of the
green.  There is generally an open side where you will have an easy chip.  The
traps and some of the surrounding banking & rough is pretty tough.

The golfing highlight of this trip is when I drove the par 4 279 yd. 16th hole.
 (Now that I've seen the green I doubt I'ld be so foolish again.)  The fairway
is pretty flat for about 230-240 yards and then slopes down to the green which
is on a penisula with a narrow neck.  The left side of the fairway cuts in
diagonally, it drops off to the ocean.  The right side of the fairway is a
hill that you skirt to drive the green.  (For those of you who were curious
I left my eagle putt 3in short, and tapped in for bird.)

This is a great course across rolling terrain and a good test of golf.  It's
not worth the money they want (unless you are addicted to playing great courses
in which case you definitely should play it at least once.)

KAUAI LAGOONS - LAGOON COURSE

This is another Nicklaus course, much more wide open then Kiele.  The wife
throughly enjoyed this course.  It would have been easier, but I was just 
having a bad day.

The Westin Kauai is something to behold.  It's one of these new deluxe adult
Disney land type resorts.  The service is good, but you pay for it.  Several
things disappointed me.  The didn't have yardage books for either course.
(Besides collecting them I find them useful when playing a course for the first 
time. (They said they were out of print.  I'ld believe one, but not both 
courses.))  The golf courses are between the two major runways at the airport.
That means once an hour you will be trying to hit a ball while a 727 is 
landing/taking off.  I had to back off several times & cover my ears.

Included in your golf fees is use of the spa for the day.  Since we were flying
out that night we relaxed for about an hour using the sauna, hot tub, etc.
then a shower/shave/change before dinner and our departure made us feel much
refreshed for the long trip back.

One last note.  The costs in Hawaii have risen dramatically over the last
5 years!  (The Japanese toursists are largely to blame.  Since things are so
much more expensive at home they tend to buy everything in site.  At Kauai
Lagoons small and medium shirts were next to impossible to find.  I was talking
with some of the staff.  They say the Japanese clean them out.  The average
American spends about $100 in the pro shop, the average Japanese spends $400!)

However we are looking forward to returning to the islands in the future.  
There are still a lot of good golf courses we haven't played, and more being
built all the time.

That puts the wraps on this vacation.  Now to start thinking about our next
vacation.  Pinehurst, Doral, Myrtle Beach ...?  Well the other 1/2 of vacation
fun is the planning. 

    re: .40 Hawaii, Maui, Kauai golfing
    
    If you don't mind me asking, what price range are the greens fees?
    $35? $50? $75 $100 (agh)??? My wife and I will be going to Maui and
    either Kauai or Hawaii in May and want to play golf a few times while
    we're there.
    
    
    Steve
    

    
    re:40
    
    Great review. I am going in April and found the info. very helpful. We
    are staying at Kapalua, The Westin Kauai, and Turtle Bay on the island
    of Oahu. Sounds like I should do a little swingin' before I go. As the
    previous note asked, what were the green fees??
    What will the weather be like in April?? I heard it's the end of the
    rainy season but should be windy. I think we are staying on the
    northern side of 2 of the 3 islands, will that make a difference.
    
    Thanks,
    
    Joe
    

    	I'm back from 4 days at Myrtle Beach, March 1-4. Couldn't really
    have had much better weather, considering what the forecast was
    when we left. We had rain for about 3 holes and then a few sprinkles
    for maybe 3 more holes and the other 3 days were fabulous. We played,
    in order, Heritage, Dunes (the rain day), Long Bay, and Pine Lakes.
    	3/1 - Heritage.   Took a 9 on the first hole when it took me
    3 to make it past the red tees, and needed a drop out of some brush 
    on that shot !  :^(    3 putted 6 greens, but still managed a 98,
    wich is about what I normally shoot.  Nice layout, holes are separated
    by trees so you rarely see any other golfers. Greens weren't in
    real good shape, the worst of the 4 we played. You get a yardage
    book with your greens fee. 18th is a tester, par 5 that requires
    a slight draw around the corner. A slice puts you in the water.
    The hourglass shaped green is guarded by water in front, so you
    have to lay up unless you nailed your drive, it's 490 from the whites.
    We played an extra 9 and I nailed my drive so I went for it in 2,
    I was 220 yards out and hit a fat 3 wood into the drink. I'd probably
    play it again. 
    	Dunes -  UGH! I hit 107 and the score doesn't indicate how badly
    I hit the ball. Had bermuda rough, which was dormant so it wasn't
    difficult landing in that. Nice course, shortest of the ones we played.
    13th is a beauty, a dogleg right, par 5. Can't be reached in 2 it
    is claimed, I believe it. Your drive only needs to go about 190
    down to the edge of the marsh and then you've got to hit over the
    water to lay up to about 130 or more to the green. Just had a lack
    of concentration that day.......
    	Long Bay - Nicklaus design. He loves swales, rather mountains
    of dirt covered by grass. Shot a 93 here with a 9 on the 18th. If
    I had only bogeyed it, it would have been only my 3rd round under
    90!  He hates amatuers, if you don't hit the green you're in bunker
    city, either sand or grass waste bunkers among the swales. He has
    2 holes that are waste bunkers along the whole fairway on both sides.
    The 13th is a beautiful island green, 123 yards from the whites.
    I hit a faded 9 into the drink first shot, made in on w/next and
    then 3 putted. Fastest greens I've ever played on, but only 3 putted
    twice. I shot 42-51. I parred 5 holes on the front side. I'd love
    to play it again, but the other guys in the group hated it as their
    scores skyrocketed! Bermuda rough again dormant.
    	Pine Lakes - If you can, play it. Beautiful and what treatment!
    Hot chocolate awaits you on the 1st tee, and there's hot chowder
    on the 7th tee. Narrow fairways and 2 levels of rough, (rye) that
    really give a decent lie wherever you land. I shot 91 and a stupid
    8 on one hole killed my chance of breaking 90. I'l definitely play
    here again. After your round they clean your shoes and clubs. Make
    sure you bring plenty of ones for tips, and a fiver for the club
    cleaning.....
    	Any direct questions, send me mail or drop me a line on the
    phone....
    
    Keith

Re: .41

>    If you don't mind me asking, what price range are the greens fees?
>    $35? $50? $75 $100 (agh)??? 

     Rates were generally $70-85 with the Kiele course @ Kauai Logoons
     weighing in @ $140.  (That does include balls at the range, a couple
     sodas in a built in cooler in your cart, cart, bag tag (with your name
     on it), and free use of the spa for the day.)  Rates are cheaper if
     you are staying with whoever runs the course.

     May is "off" season, and some discounts may apply.  It is a very nice time
     to be in Hawaii.  (That's when we were there last time!)

     You can find courses with cheaper rates, but I was trying to add notches
     to my Golf Digest top 100 list.  (On Kauai try Wailua, unfortunately while
     we were there you couldn't get out until after 4:00, with sunset @6:20.
     It's a public course, they held the USGA Publinx there.)

     Also several courses have discounted twi-light rates.

	Larry

    My boyfriend and I have free use of a condo in Palm Springs for 
    the week of April 6-13.  We hope to do alot of golfing while we 
    are there.  After calling 10 or 12 public courses in Palm Springs/
    Palm Desert, I find that the prices range anywhere from $24 to $90
    a round, including a couple municipal courses.
    
    Can anyone who's played the public courses in Palm Springs make
    some recommendations ?
    
    Thanks,
    
    Lori

    Well, I just got back from my week in Orlando, Fla.  The weather
    was absolutely great.  The golf courses were great and we had a
    lot of fun.  Saturday, 3/3 and Thursday, 3/8 we played a new course
    which had just opened 1 month earlier, Deer Run South.  These happened
    to be the only 2 windy days while we were down there.  Sunday and
    Wednesday we played Hunters Creek, a very picturesque course with
    a lot of water, as does all of the courses we played. Monday we
    played the International which is where some of the pros qualify.
    Tuesday was an optional day and I chose to rest, others went to
    play Mission Inn which they said was another beautiful course. 
    Friday we closed with one of the finest courses I've ever played
    or seen, The Marriott.  This was a package put together by Golf-Pak
    so I don't have any info on costs for individual courses except
    I did hear that if you stayed at the Marriott it was $170.00/day
    and did NOT include golf.  Golf was an additional $75.00.  Some
    of the golf carts have yardage meters so you can get accurate readings
    to the greens and they also clean your clubs after your round along
    with curb side service and valet parking.  What a great way to end
    a great week.  I've already signed up for next year.
    
    See ya on the links.
    
    Stu,

    Hi Stu,
    
    	What is a golf cart yardage meter?
    
    	thanks,
    
    	Walta

    Walta,
    
       It's an actual odometer accurate to yards versus the one in your
    car which reads in tenths of miles.  Proved to be quite accurate
    too.
    
    Stu,

    Stu,
    
    	Interesting... I can see using an odometer on the wheels of a
    pull cart, but on a golf cart I don't see where you could take
    advantage. Unless you could drive the cart down the fairway, directly
    from the tee to the ball, then subtract the distance from the total
    to get the remaining to the pin...  it's not like you could take a
    quick trip from the ball to the edge of the green? Or is the another
    way to use the odometer?
    
    	thanks,
    
    	Walta

    Walta,
    
       Most of the tees you could drive directly to the ball, other
    times you could rive from your ball to the green, but most of the
    time you drive to the next yardage marker from your ball.  To be
    honest, in most cases we did not have to use it as every sprinkler
    head was marked as well as all 100, 150, and 200 yd markers in polished
    granite.
       And they even let duffers like me out there.
    
    Stu,

    
    RE: .46
    
    Stu,
    
    We just got back from our trip to Florida and we also played the
    Marriott course. It was beautiful, it was in better shape than
    the Disney courses (which we didn't have time to play, but did
    take a look at). I would have to rank this course near or at the
    top of the my list (not long, but lots of water)...
    
    We also got to play Rolling Hills in Ft Lauderdale, which is where
    they filmed Caddy Shack and Caddy Shack II, which we didn't know untill
    after we got there. I wasn't impressed with the course of the condition
    particularly in comparison to the Marriott's course...
    
    Gene (who_totally_enjoyed_getting_to_play_some_golf_in_Florida)

    Just got back from 4 days of golf at Grenlefe.  I was dissapointed with
    it.  The courses were O.K., but the highly regarded west course is
    fairly dull.  The East course is the nicest of the three at the resort.
    The highlight of the trip turned out to be the 2 evening rounds we
    played at a course called Sun Air,  about 5 miles away.  One of the
    best layouts I've ever played!  
    
    Rick 

    
    
     Back on the Hawaii subject...
    
     If your on Kuwai, I stayed at Poipu beach and there was a corse right
    there, the name escapes me. I stopped by the pro-shop and was able to
    get a 7:05 tee time for the following day. Price was $50 with a cart
    and it was a very nice course.
    
     There is also a State Park course in the hill over looking Poipu. It's
    the place to take your wife. 9 hole course nothing fancy-- great view
    of the countryside. Price $5 and cart $5. Best $15 I ever spent. Kind
    of like Twin Springs in Bolton.
    
     It was too rainy in princville the day's I was there... Poipu is the
    dry side of the island.
    
      I have been to Muai and Oahu but Kuwai is my favorite
    
      - Dave Sullivan
    

    Hi Dave,
    
    When were you in Kuwai?  Walter and I will be staying at Hanalei Bay
    hotel which is in Princeville area in June.  Hope it doesn't rain
    all the time...    
    
    We will have to check out that Twin Springs like course in Poipu.
    Any idea how long of a drive is from Princeville to Poipu? From the
    map it looks like it will take a couple of hours.
    
    Eunhwa

    
    Mt Washington resort...!
    
    Has anybody else played the Mt Washington resort course? 
    
    I played it this past Sunday and was EXTREMELY disappointed...! This
    was the cow pasture that was mentioned in another note...! The over-all
    condition of the course was poor, the greens had winter kill (to be
    expected - I guess), no water to drink out on the course, you had to 
    walk a couple hundred yards UP HILL from the parking lot to the pro
    shop, we were handed two score cards and when I asked for 4 (one each,
    since we collect them) it was like pulling teeth to get them...! The
    only positives about the place was the price ($20 on a weekend) and
    nobody was there (now I know why)...!
    
    Has anybody played it in past years? Was it better before? I know it 
    must have been nice years ago...! It says on the card that Dave Marr
    used to be the pro there...! To bad that it has gone down hill so
    bad...!
    
    Disappointed
    Gene

    
    I played it twice in 85 and wasn't pleased. It's called a lynks (? on
    spelling) type course. I played in once in Aug and it was in excellent
    condition. I found it challenging, and very scenic. Try it again later
    on this year, it may supprise you.
    
    Mike

    
    Well Gene I'll have to disagree with you on this one. I've played it
    twice and am going up there again in about three weeks. I stop by there
    on my way up to Errol for our annual fishing trip. This trip also
    includes a run up to The Balsams. One of your favorites. Anyway.....
    I've enjoyed it every time I've played it. Winter kill doesn't even
    come into consideration this year, for me, as all the tracks I get to
    play have got it.
    It's not too long but I think it's got a few interesting holes. Nice
    start, par 3 down hill to a skinny green protected in front. A couple
    of nice par 5's that beg you to go for them in 2.
    I have a tough time putting any course down. I guess it doesn't hurt
    that I shot 75 and 76 the two times I've played it. Oh well..... beauty
    is in the eye.......
    
    Joe

    
    I am glad to hear that it is normally in better condition. I never seen
    so many dandylions (sp) in the fairways of any course nor any water on
    the course to drink. I agree about the winter kill on the greens being
    very common this year. It is definately a links course. I don't know
    that I would care to try to get back there later in the year...!
    
    Ya Joe, I would love to make it back up to the Balsams some time...
    Great place and great course...
    
    Still very disappointed
    Gene

    Could someone comment on the Woodstock Inn in Vermont. I understand
    they have a course and I need to be in the Woodstock area in late
    Sept. and would like to find a place to stay and play for about
    3 or 4 days. 
    
    Dennis

    Woodstock has a great course, it's a Robert Trent Jones layout, with
    this river running thoughout the course, I think the course is owned by
    the Woodstock Inn, just call the Inn for more information. 
    
    peter

    
    I agree with Peter, the Woodstock course is a beauty. It is one of
    the top 5 on my list of courses... 
    
    Enjoy
    Gene

We just returned from a week long vacation in Michigan.  The Northern part of
the lower penisula is beautiful, the weather was wonderful, but best of all they
have some great golf courses up there.  Here's the obligatory trip report:

We stayed at Schuss Mtn. which was pretty centrally located for all the courses
we wanted to play.  There are facilities & restaurants at both Schuss Mtn. &
Shanty Creek, but not much around outside of that.  Good place to come to
relax, not to party.

Monday - Played Schuss Mountain Golf Club, just outside Mancelona - played the
white tees, 6394 yds. course rating 71.1, slope 120.  Strated off by chipping
in for birdie on the first hole.  The course is in great shape, the greens are
very fast.  At least 1/2 of the holes on the back nine are from elevated tees. 
Cost $45.

Tuesday - The Legends at Shanty Creek, 1 mile up the round from Schuss  -
played the blue tees, 6269 course rating 71.5, slope 130.  Tee shot on first 
hole sets the tone.  It requires a well placed shot to a narrow fairway,
that slopes fron right to left, with bunkers on the right, and real rough on
both sides.  The view from the 3rd tee is beautiful.  It looks out over
wooded terrain, overlooking Lake Bellaire.  The approach shot on the 7th hole
is fun.  It's a par 5, if you've played it correctly you have a short iron over
a stream to a well bunkered front & back green that's only 10yds. deep!  It
looks pretty, but can eat you alive.  Tip: Hitting the ball to the right place
is more important than being long.)  Cost $60? 

Wednesday - The Bear at Grand Traverse Resort, Acme, (just outside Traverse
City) - played the whites 6176 yds, rating 71.9, slope 138.  This is a very
beautiful though contrived course.  Characteristic features are plateaued
fairways, and mounds especially around the green.  Many greens have significant
swales.  All are fast.  This course is penal.  If you hit your ball into trouble
(like the rough) it will cost you at least one stroke if not more.  Most greens
require perfect shots, with trouble in front & back.  I don't recommend this
course for high handicappers unless you are big into masochism.  A medium
handicap golfer can grind out each hole by positioning the ball, laying up,
etc., but make a mistake and you're dead.  You'll come to hate cart golf
if they are making you keep carts on the path.  Hit the ball on the wrong
side of the fairway and you'll be making long trips back & forth.  Tip: Bring
lots of balls & lots of cash.  Cost $90. 

Thursday - Went siteseeing with our familie's to Mackinanc Island.  Running
joke, Mackinac is Indian for "land of many fudge shops".

Friday - Treetops, Sylvan Resort, Gaylord - played the blues 6399 yds, par 71,
rating 72.6, slope 137.  Has spectacular views, especially in foliage season,
unfortunately due to low clouds & fog we didn't see much of them.  Challenging
course, requires good course management.  Several greens are on penisulas,
surrounded by sharp drop offs or water.  Approach shots must be straight, and
err on the short side.  We enjoyed the layout, but the conditioning of several
of the fairways wasn't up to the other courses.  Cost $65.

Saturday - Had to cancel tee time at Boyne Highlands, Father in Law's airplane
grounded by poor flying conditions.  Bummer, played here a couple years ago
and enjoyed both courses a lot.

One three of these courses we were the first group off, and played in under
4 hours!  It was like having the course all to ourselves.

Summary:

A great vacation area.  Definitely planning to return here again.  (Even if
my in-laws didn't live in Michigan.)  Great collection of good course, mild
weather (was generally in 70's & low 80')

Personal Course Ratings:

	Overall Challenge & Enjoyment		Conditioning

	1. The Legend - Shanty Creek		1. The Bear
	2. The Bear				2. Shanty Creek
	3. Treetops				3. Schuss Mountain
	4. Schuss Mountain			4. Treetops


Misc:

At the Bear played with two college age kids that play a lot in that area.
(One works at Grand Travers & plays the Bear almost daily).  In addition to
the courses we had planned they also recommended the Swampfire & Monarch courses
at Garland in Lewiston.  They also turned me on to the fact that you can play
Glen Abbey in Canada (see where to play between Boston & Chicago note).

    Thinking about heading down to the Caribean over New Years...any
    suggestions on islands/golf courses?
    
    Thanks

    Anyone out there ever golf in Venezuela? and could give me some info on
    the type of courses there
    
    thanks in advance
    peter

    Has anyone been to the Club Sugarbush Golf Course in Warren VT.? If so
    what were your impressions of the course the accomindations, anything
    else that maybe helpful, I'm think about having our annual family
    tourny there this summer.
    
    thanks
    peter

    Peter-
    
    I played the Sugarbush course once about 3 years ago. It is a Robert
    Trent Jones course, so if you are a fan of his, you'll like it. It is
    STEEP, probably the steepest I've ever played. I know it's rated as one
    of the top ten courses in Vermont, but don't remember how high and I
    haven't played too many others in Vt. When I played (in the fall), the
    course was deserted and in very good condition with near excellent
    greens. You need good three dimensional perception, as the greens are
    frequently 50-100 feet above or below you. Good long iron play and good
    strategy are essential. I recall one par 5 that I reached in reg
    without using a wood (I was very fortunate!). The course is not too
    long (6200 from the blues?) but has lots of appealing characteristics.
    
    It is not cheap. If my memory serves me, it was about $75 including a
    cart, and only a maniac or a mountain climber would play without one.
    The Sugarbush Inn (where we stayed) has a golf package, but it ain't
    cheap either. However, if you are going on a joint golf/flyfishing
    vacation like I did, it's a great location! If you have non-golfing
    folks in your entourage, Sugarbush is a great place for other
    activities. Make reservations early.
    
    Chris

     Chris, I'll bet you "conned" the family into a trip up there so you
    could swing by REC and try to con them out of a rod.
    
    --Jack

    Not so! The wife has been onto that one for many years and counts my
    rods regularly. Actually, it had more to do with the Mad/Dog Rivers
    that happen to be nearby.
    
    Chris

    
    We are planning a trip out to Nantucket this summer.  Does anyone
    know what courses are on the island?  Good quality?  Names? Prices?
    Recomendations?
    
    Thanks for the help!
    
    Ken
    

    
    An entire file of golf crazies and no one has been to Nantucket
    and checked out a course?  
    
    Oh well,
    
    Ken
    

RE: -.1

>    An entire file of golf crazies and no one has been to Nantucket
>    and checked out a course?  

Maybe it because we weren't crazy enough to spend 2-3 hours each way wasting
our time sitting on some stupid boat.  After all we just drove all the way
to the Cape.  There are plenty of good courses there.  In the 4-5 hours you'll
waste sitting on boats we could have played an entire extra round!  

(Said tongue firmly in cheek.)  I did go to Nantucket once, I wasn't looking 
for a golf course.  It was a nice place to spend a weekend,  If you are looking
for golf on an island I do know that there are courses on the Vineyard....or 
there's always Bermuda.

    
    RE -1
    
    I agree with the basic assumption that Nantucket isn't exactly a
    golf destination.  The vacation isn't built around golf, it's a
    family reunion.  I saw a course listed on the maps, but I haven't
    seen a description.  I was hoping for someone who had played out
    there, despite the natural obstacles.
    
    Ken
    
    
    

    Siasconset is a public course on Nantucket which is supposed to be
    pretty good. Old, decent layout, but not really "manicured." Sankaty
    Head is the private club on the island, and is reputed to be very (!)
    good - but very tough to get on. Depending on the time of year, or your
    connections, it might be accessible. This course is a real "sleeper,"
    and I'd recommend you try hard to get on it.
    
    --Jack

    
    Thanks!  I'll see what the network can dig up!
    
    Ken
    

    My husband and I, and our two preschool children, are thinking about
    going to the Club Med Sandpiper Resort in Porte Lucia, Florida.
    
    It offers two PAR 72 golf courses, a golf academy, 9 hole PAR 3 course,
    driving range w/lessons, etc....  The cost for golf is extra - 120 pp.
    for unlimited play.   Although my husband and I just began playing last
    fall, we're hooked!
    
    The rest of Club Med amenities are included, of course, and they have
    several aged children clubs/activities.
    
    Had anyone been to this resort, know anything about it, or know someone
    who has??
    
    We're thinking of going the end of October '92.
    
    Thanks for any info...
    
    Laurel
    USCTR1::LAROIAN
    
    
    

    Be sure to check if Andrew spoiled your plans. The hurricane tore
    things up pretty good.
    
    Ken

Any updated info on golf in the Williamsburg, VA area?  

An ad in a recent issue of Golf Digest got me interested in a trip there
and notes .5 & .6 perked more interest.  

	a) How is the weather there around mid-April?
	b) Has anyone played there recently?  Your impressions?
	c) .6 quotes a price of $45 + $20 for a cart in 1987; what are today's
	   prices?
	d) Can one walk any of these courses?  (I *hate* to use a cart...
	   especially if they make you stay on a cart path which, of course,
	   means my ball will always land on the opposite side of the fairway!)

Thanks,
John

    RE: Williamsburg
    
    PLAY KINGSMILL!  And tell Curtis I said hello......Newport News has a
    decent municipal course about 20 minutes south of Williamsburg.
    
    Mid April should be beautiful, I have not played there in years, I
    don't know the prices, and yes you can walk the public courses.  Ilive
    about 2 hours north of Williamsburg, but I grew up in Hampton.  Look
    for Bruce Hornsby to be in town while yer there....
    
    Steve

    You have to play Ford's Colony. Beautiful course and great shape.
    
    THere are three courses in Colonial Williamsburg. All of them are
    wonderful. Two of them are located right in Colonial Williamsburg. The
    third is about 5 miles down the road(forgot the name). Its also
    wonderful.
    
    There are specials advertised all over the place. DO NOT PAY FULL
    PRICE. I stayed at the Holiday Inn 1776 Patriot's Place right outside
    of Colonial Williamsburg. I paid $65 for coupons worth well over that.
    They entitled me to half-off golf. But while I was standing in line at
    the pro shop, the guys ahead of me said they heard of the place on the
    local recreation tv channel. They received half off for mentioning it.
    Anyway, don't pay full price.
    
    Keep'm in the short stuff!

    err... hello,
    
    I'm travelling over to Italy, France, San francisco and Vancouver.. I
    have grand visions of playing a course in each country.. but realise
    that I'm really on holidays for food/wine/scenery in Italy and France.
    We will be visiting the Loire Valley (where I'm told are a number of
    Golf course..) anyone played there?? Also, anyone have knowledge of
    course near Vancouver.. or vancouver Island??
    
    		regards,
    	
    			paul-travelling-for-6-weeks!

    If you're willing to go over to Vancouver side and drive an hour, you
    can play two terrific courses up by Whistler. One is a Robert Trent
    Jones design, the other (I believe) is a Jack Nicklas & co. design.
    
    Of course, they're not ready to play right now, as winter is still
    there.
    
    Wim