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Conference napalm::commusic_v1

Title:	* * Computer Music, MIDI, and Related Topics * *
Notice:	Conference has been write-locked. Use new version.
Moderator:	DYPSS1::SCHAFER

Created:	Thu Feb 20 1986
Last Modified:	Mon Aug 29 1994
Last Successful Update:	Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:	2852
Total number of notes:	33157

2846.0. "Midi Hold and cut out pedal" by KERNEL::PARRY (Trevor Parry) Mon Feb 17 1992 09:10

Hi Midi Guitarists,  (I'm not sure if this would apply to keyboard players)

On the Casio MG510 you can have guitar and MIDI playing at the same time.
I've got a MIDI sustain pedal plugged into my pedalboard so that when I
hit it, the MIDI sounds carry on and I can give my left hand a rest (to the
amazement of anyone watching closely enough).  However any more notes
hit will just add to the chord already playing.

Now what I'd really like to do is hit the pedal, the MIDI sustain to continue
and no more sounds registered so I can wander off playing guitar sound
type notes with the chord continuing on its own.

Is there an easy way to achieve this ?

I suppose I'm going to have to wire up a pedal to do the sustain and to
disconnect the MIDI input at the same time.  What consequence is this 
going to have ?  Does it matter that the SGU (Roland MT32) never receives
the 'note off's ? Conversely, does the release of a 'hold' pedal turn off all 
active notes ?

Trev

T.R	Title	User	Personal Name	Date	Lines
2846.1	first shot...	EZ2GET::STEWART	the leper with the most fingers	`Mon Feb 17 1992 10:25`	16
	Since no one else has jumped in... I haven't seen the device you're looking for, but I like your idea. Sounds like what you want is a pedal that interrupts the MIDI stream from the MG510 to your MT32 on the first push (this provides the hold function), and then sends an all notes off message on the second push (this provides the release function). If you can't find a commercial product that does this, maybe you can fabricate your own using an Anatek Pocket Pedal. If you're not familiar with Anatek, they make a series of self-contained MIDI functions contained in small packages. The one you would use for this application is called something like the "pocket panic button". Anybody got better pointers on this?
2846.2		STAR::ROBERT		`Mon Feb 17 1992 11:08`	12
	I've wanted this for years --- long before Midi. I never got past the same solution you thought of, only I was going to switch the inputs between a long sustaining echo system and a "direct" route to the amp. Les Paul had a little box mounted on his Guitar that could do this, but I've never seen it productized (also, that was a non-midi version). Hope a better answer shows up here. - greg
2846.3		MANTHN::EDD	I refuse to talk to myself	`Mon Feb 17 1992 11:24`	4
	You don't have to disconnect the entire MIDI stream, just send a sysex message to change MIDI channels... Edd
2846.4	Sustain and Note-Offs	RGB::ROST	I'm not into music, I'm into chaos	`Mon Feb 17 1992 11:53`	8
	Also, your question about the sustain pedal: The note-offs are still sent as usual. The sustain pedal being ON tells the receiving unit to ignore those note-offs until the pedal is released. This avoids the ghastly case of a controller omitting some note-offs at some point and hanging the receiving unit. Brian
2846.5		SALSA::MOELLER	Psst.. 3 day weekends-Pass it on	`Mon Feb 17 1992 11:59`	8
	I usedta use a SONUS MIDI switcher. This little box had slider switches that selected one of two MIDI inputs for each MIDI output.. therefore if I wanted a sustained tone/chord/whatever from one SGU, I'd hit the notes and flip the switch.. thus it never received note-offs until I flipped the switch back to listen to the KX88, and pressed the sustain pedal down, then released - CC64 off. karl
2846.6	it's been done	TOOK::LEVINE		`Mon Feb 17 1992 14:05`	12
	> Now what I'd really like to do is hit the pedal, the MIDI sustain to continue > and no more sounds registered so I can wander off playing guitar sound > type notes with the chord continuing on its own. Saw John McLaughlin a few months ago at Berklee, and he appeared to be doing exactly this. He was playing an acoustic guitar with a pickup. An unobtrusive "pad" patch played along. When he held the pedal down, the synth sustained, otherwise it played in unison with the guitar. I have no idea what equipment he used to do this, though... -Lance-
2846.7	Potential problem with that suggestion	DREGS::BLICKSTEIN	Soaring on the wings of dawn	`Wed Feb 19 1992 10:46`	18
	> You don't have to disconnect the entire MIDI stream, just send a sysex > message to change MIDI channels... That might create problems when you want the sustained notes to stop. This doesn't help you but it's interesting to note that the Ensoniq VFX family of synths have a feature that allows a patch to "ignore" sustain messages. I have a several keyboard splits with bass on the left side and piano/strings/etc on the right - the feature allows me to use the sustain pedal for the piano/strings and yet still play a walking bass line. Another Ensoniq innovation that demonstrates that they listen to customer feedback. db
2846.8		MANTHN::EDD	I refuse to talk to myself	`Wed Feb 19 1992 10:58`	4
	No problem, if you send a CC64=0 after you come back to th eoriginal channel.... Edd
2846.9	what do you really want?	EZ2GET::STEWART	the leper with the most fingers	`Wed Feb 19 1992 11:43`	14
	You guys sure managed to make this complicated! The original suggestion to just disconnect the MIDI out from the MG510 will give the sustain he's after (the notes will sustain according to the decay envelope of the selected patch), and the pocket pedal will kill the sustained notes when he's ready for a change. Alternatively, he could use one of the other pocket pedals to produce the appropriate controller data to send a sustain message, but that wouldn't hide the note offs coming off of the MG510. Of course, this is all based on my assumption that what he's after is a stomp box kind of interface...
2846.10	simplicity rules!	GLOWS::COCCOLI	watch that spin cycle..	`Wed Feb 19 1992 18:54`	8
	RE .0 Just get a keyboard and some lead fishing weights. Place weights on desired keys....... RichC
2846.11	CC7 = Velocity NOT	DRUMS::FEHSKENS	len, EMA, LKG1-2/W10	`Fri Feb 21 1992 08:51`	6
	re .8 - wouldn't it make more sense to send an ALL NOTES OFF? Just setting the volume to zero might result in some strange behaviour depending on the synth's voice allocation strategy. len.
2846.12	not close enough	WXYZ::PRUCHA		`Fri Feb 21 1992 14:35`	8
	No. All_notes_off is an optional implimentation for SGU's according to spec (V1). Sending 127 note off's for 16 channels takes too long too (probably), so Anatec approach wont be acceptable.