Conference napalm::commusic_v1

    It's pretty interesting that you can also get a MIDI Standard file
    also, it implies that it is a song data.
    
    Is this going to put the folks that sell sequences out of business?
     Hmmm, interesting, I thing someone here mentioned something about 
    that become reality a while a back. Music stores would no longer need
    to stock the preprinted music and would be able to always have a large 
    selection on hand (available on disk to be printed).
    
    IMHO one step closer to eliminating the 'semi pro musican'.
    
    Errol

    
        > It's pretty interesting that you can also get a MIDI Standard file
        > also, it implies that it is a song data.
         
    I've read a few blurbs about these "on-line" music books. Either the
    "print to MIDI standard file" is new, or .0 is misleading.
    
    It would be nice though to, instead of buying Corea's latest CD, to
    simply buy the sequence...
    
    Edd

    >Music stores would no longer need
    >to stock the preprinted music and would be able to always have a large 
    >selection on hand (available on disk to be printed).
    
    If you've seen the Personics cassette system yet (where you get a
    custom loaded tape filled with songs you select from a master list)
    then you can see where systems like this will have a powerful impact on
    the way the music business will work in the next 20 years.
    
    
    							Brian

    re Personics : my wife surprised me with a cassette of our favorite
    tunes from the fifties/early sixties.  It even comes with a custom
    personalized insert/cover.
    
    karl

    For those around the Santa Clara, CA DEC office, the sheet music outlet
    "Music Music Music" (near Winchester Blvd. and Stevens Creek Blvd. in
    Santa Clara) has a Notestation setup, new as of a month or two ago.
    I didn't check it out thoroughly, but, as I recall, it had about
    7,000 titles, mostly fairly recent popular stuff from around the
    sixties on (no doubt many many more titles will become available
    over time).  I believe your choices were pretty much piano, vocal,
    guitar type arrangements, but transposed to your favorite key.
    I don't recall MIDI being touted.  Again, I didn't check it out
    thoroughly, though, will when I have some time (I was headed over
    there yesterday when my cursed beeper went off).
     
    It's definitely one of those things where I thought to myself
    "now why didn't I think of that?".  I wonder how royalties are
    handled, e.g. if the Notestation keeps track of what gets printed
    and then the store sends off a floppy with the particulars to
    Notestation HQ or whatever.
     
    I do think it's pretty nifty since, sooner or later, most music
    places will have in effect an extensive inventory of stuff that
    you can be pretty selective on instead of not finding what your
    looking for in stock or else having to buy some whole dang songbook
    that probably only has a few songs you REALLY want.
     
    I'll post more details that I find out about if they are really of
    additional interest beyond what I've said above.  As I recall, there's
    a hardcopy Notestation catalog for $ 1 that lists all the titles
    available, so you can pick it up and browse at your leisure and
    have "all your ducks lined up" the next time you saunter into your
    favorite music store.
                         

    It seems like a minor variation would be selecting MIDI sequences from
    a BBS. You log on, enter your VISA number, makes yer cherces, and
    presto-flako the sequences appear in standard MIDI format on your
    hard-disk. No nasty floppy formats to worry about. Maybe you could
    download snatches (20 seconds?) for a listen before buying.
    
    The BBS technology is there, of course. All you need is an inventory.
    I suppose you could just spend a fortune at a Notestation, then resell
    via the BBS until the Turing police show up. Or make your own deal with
    ASCAP/BMI.

 
	OK, my beeper was quiet enough for me to get over to "Music Music
	Music" and play with their NoteStation, so here's my spiel of
	my experience and impressions.  I asked the sales clerk there
	some questions about it, but she couldn't answer hardly anything.
	According to her, "they just came in and put it in the store,
	so we [I assume she's speaking collectively of all the store
	folks here] really don't know anything about it other than
	getting printouts of customer selections".  The thing does
	in principle afford MIDI sequences; when I asked the clerk
	about this, she said, "oh, I can't produce a MIDI sequence
	for you, we're not technical.  They just put it in the store
	with our OK and didn't tell us much about it".  I either
	talked to the wrong person or else I speculate that this
	place may be some sort of a "guinea pig" or beta site or
	field test place for the NoteStation.  Anyways, they could
	produce printouts but not provide sequences on floppies
	(more on this in a bit).  That this would be a beta site
	is plausible to me since "Music Music Music" is the largest
	sheet music store in my local geography and NoteStation
	headquarters is also in the same local geography.  Also,
	there were at least two displays in the store hawking a
	free NoteStation printout if you signed up for a survey,
	which I did but the clerk didn't know where to submit
	the survey to (it wasn't business reply mail, no address,
	no drop off box in the store . . . the clerk "promised"
	to take care of it for me).  By the way, I regularly
	buy music here so I am not bad-mouthing the clerks, they
	have always been helpful, courteous, etc., in my "traditional"
	dealings with them, so I just have to take what they have
	to say about NoteStation (or lack of what they have to
	say) at face value, "Music Music Music" is a good store
	with good folks.
 
	The "thing" itself is a black monolithic pedestal about 4 or
	5 feet tall, the profile and footprint approximating an LP27
	lineprinter that would do 80 columns instead of 132.  The user
	interface is a touch screen with a speaker on each side.
	There is some amount of on-line help available; operating
	it isn't very much more difficult than using an ATM and us
	computer literates here will become pros in 10 minutes or
	so (the problem most of us are likely to face will be waiting
	for some yahoo spending forever trying to wade through the thing
	while we know we could zip through our selections in a couple
	of minutes).  There's either a Macintosh or IBM PC/PC clone
	inside the thing with cables over to a Qume laser printer and
	a Wang PC keyboard and monitor in the sales corral, plus some
	sort of SGU in it.  Apparently the "box" inside the monolith
	is running Encore software (the NoteStation catalog indicates
	that Encore was chosen for NoteStation; there's also a Half
	Moon Bay, CA address which I recognize, as I recall, to be
	that of the outfit that advertises MIDI sequences in EM and
	KB magazines, so that explains to me where the MIDI stuff
	is coming from).
 
	Anyways, the top level menu allows you to indicate your selection
	mode amongst about five categories such as title (you type in
	the title), genre, catalog number if you know it, etc.  If
	your mode brings up more than one title, there are windows-like
	scroll bars to scan through the possibilities.  Once you pick
	a song, you can preview what the printout will look like (I
	couldn't figure out if it's possible to get to see more than
	about the top 2/3 of the first page), you can audition it
	(although a number of selections don't have a MIDI sequence
	so you can't always do this), you can transpose the key and
	preview the printout and audition it in the new key.  The
	system implies you can do some other rudimentary customization
	such as chop an entire part out of what you want to be your
	final copy, however, this is either not implemented, most of
	the titles are arranged so as to not allow this, or else I
	didn't have enough time to figure it out (there were several
	other customers champfing at the bit to play with it, so
	I didn't expore all levels of all possible menus).
 
	Anyways, once you've got your choice "setup" to your liking,
	you get into the purchase options display where you get to
	indicate how many copies you want to print out, and how
	many copies of MIDI sequences you want (again, at this place
	the MIDI angle was not implemented or the store didn't know
	how to accomplish this).
 
	Price per song, regardless of how many pages in the song, is $ 3.95.
	Price per MIDI sequence, assuming I could've got one, is $ 4.95.
	Presumably your sequence will include a track sheet, chord sheet,
	and lyrics on accompanying hardcopy.
 
	The  catalog looks like it does have at least a couple thousand
	choices.  Almost everything is available in standard piano
	arrangement format.  Many (but by NO MEANS all) of the choices
	are touted as being available as a MIDI sequence as well.
	A number of songs give variations on the style of the printed
	output (which you choose in the purchase options menu), which
	may include one or more of the following types of arrangements
	(not an exhaustive list here):
		Guitar Solo
		Easy Piano
		"Deluxe" Edition
		Advanced Piano Solo
		Big Note Piano Solo
		Organ Solo
		Piano, Vocal, Guitar
		
	Again, most stuff is available in standard piano arrangements
	and you don't seem to have much customization control beyond
	key transposition.  Selected stuff is also available as a
	MIDI sequence, and selected stuff may be available in one
	or more editions (e.g., Easy Piano) as listed above.
 
	Also, presumably, each printed page will have a transaction
	code on it (the store sample showed this was only a date
	and time timestamp, but this was the sample) so I guess
	that's to discourage blatant copying/reselling unless
	the perpretrators are hep to "whiteout".
 
	My impression:  pretty neat, definitely expands store inventory.
	Will be nice if/when MIDI becomes a reality.  Pricing not bad
	at all on the sequences.  For sheet music, though, unless I'm
	interested in only a song or two at the time, I'll stick to
	the library and Xerox machine (exercising my one copy for
	individual, private study privileges).  There is definitely
	potential here for this service.  As a bottom line practical
	evaluation, consider this as a MIDI sequence source and a
	thing that expands store inventory, a worthwhile innovation
	I suppose.  I can envision this thing getting into most
	music stores that customarily have any decent amount of
	inventory usually around.
 
	Re: an earlier reply or two about the Personics customize your
	own tape thing, yeah, this is another one of those things I
	wished I'd thought of also.  I'm never going to put together
	a whole tape of my favorite stuff if I have to do it on a
	song by song basis from a ton of albums, CDs, and cassettes.
	With Personics, yeah, just specify the "recipe" and you're
	off and running.
 
	Re: -.6  Now that's something I *HAVE* thought about, a BBS
	download a MIDI sequence service once I've got your VISA
	number, just too lazy or else my business inclinations don't
	exactly lie in that space.  I can see where such a service
	WOULD keep me away from NoteStation unless cost per sequence
	was way out of line.
		
	You that are interested could probably get a free catalog (they
	are only supposed to be free with a NoteStation purchase but
	this outfit is in a promotional mode at this point, anyways,
	I got a free catalog) and maybe other "propaganda" from
 
		MusicWriter Inc.
		170 Knowles Dr.  Suite 203
		Los Gatos, CA  95030
		(408) 364-2500
	
	who own NoteStation as a trademark.
 
    

    re: the Notestation in the San Francisco Bay Area
    
    I believe Guitar Showcase in San Jose (on Bascom, near Camden Avenue)
    also has (or is soon to get) a NoteStation.  If anyone can tell you
    about NoteStation & MIDI, they should be able to.
    
    John

    I think the MIDI sequence part will end up (in about 5 years or so) 
    being the big money maker. Figure out how many home got those little
    Casio and Yamaha keyboards with build in MIDI. Computers are going 
    down in price so that's no issue.
    
    Now you just need some cheap software and a good marketing gimmick and
    millions would be able to sing along/ jam along with their favorite
    song right in the privacy of their homes.
    
    Lots on folks of all ages are buying those digital pianos now.
    So general consumer MIDI is on the way. I would have never imagined
    that MIDI was going to turn out to be this big.
    
    Well enough rambling from me.
    
    Errol
     

 
	Saturday morning I happened into Bryan Hoyt Sheet Music, probably
	the biggest sheet music dealer in San Francisco, and lo and behold
	they had a NoteStation.  One of the clerks there was more know-
	ledgable about it than the folks were at Music Music Music in
	Santa Clara.  According to the guy at Bryan Hoyt, they are
	one of 10 pilots who have NoteStation right now.  Only hardcopy
	is presently available, MIDI sequences will be available "perhaps
	in early December".  The cost for a song's sheet music, regardless
	of how many pages required, is $ 3.95, in agreement with the
	figure at Music Music Music.  The guy said MIDI sequences, when
	available, will cost $ 10.00 per sequence, in rather sharp dis-
	agreement with the $ 4.95 figure that the NoteStation at Music
	Music Music led me to believe.  As I recall (I don't have a
	catalog handy) a typical sequence price from one of those outfits
	that peddle sequences is around $ 8.00 or so, again, this is
	just from memory, maybe someone else out there has more accurate
	numbers.  So, I don't know what to tell you, if sequences go
	for $ 10.00 then there will be no particular advantage to the
	NoteStation other than being able to provide the sequence right
	there on the spot instead of going the mail order route.  Of
	course, if you're going to buy a number of sequences, then
	you'll save $$ via mail order.  Another thing the guy at
	Bryan Hoyt said is that you'll have to bring in your own
	floppies, media won't be included in that $ 10.00 price.  Since
	no NoteStation is yet supplying sequences, I suppose any
	discussion of sequence pricing is probably sheer speculation
	at this point until such time as you can actually go and buy
	a sequence.
 
	About the only other little tidbit I can add is that, according
	to NoteStation propaganda, the supported media types will be
	Macintosh, IBM, or Atari ST double-sided (which I suppose will
	include just about all of us).
 
	At this point I've begun to lose some of my original enthusiasm
	for this thing.  Just view it as a PC with a laser printer that
	has a bunch of sequences and Encore song files on disk and the owner
	has set up whatever the necessary copyright arrangements are to peddle
	copies of the stuff.  The major advantage will be availability
	of a large inventory of stuff, but not necessarily at super great
	prices.  Still, a worthwhile innovation.
    

    
    
    I think Errol (.9) is onto something here.  I can't see the
    participants in this conference buying tons of sequences out of one of
    these things, but maybe the general public is the intended target.
    If one of those little MIDI disk drives could read the sequences and
    play 'em back through the Casio keyboard that's been collecting dust
    since Xmas...
    
    After all, somebody somewhere is buying those silly karaoke boxes...
    

    The Notestation was featured for about ten minutes this evening on
    NPR's All Things Considered. I was mostly napping at the time, so all
    the details are dim, but I was struck by how _poor_ it sounded. They
    played the first ten seconds of each of two tunes, and the timbres
    were basic crummy consumer quality. Maybe it was timbre, singular! Not
    a great sell. If they'd put a Proteus II in there...
    
    Re -X: A MIDI sequence-layer in every livingroom
    
    I don't think MIDI will ever get that big. MIDI2 might, however, the
    revised version offering the major "upgrade" of copy-protection. We
    can't give away those sequences by passing them out unprotected! And
    synthesizers will have to be modified, too, so they can receive MIDI2
    data but cannot export MIDI2 except as analog, to prevent copying. And
    every synthesizer or MIDI2 card sold will include 2% royalties for the
    soon-to-be-abused composers and music companies.

    I heard the NPR spot last night also. Apparently there will be be 2
    types of MIDI sequences available. The plain vanilla version that is
    used to preview the music and a "fully orchestrated" sequence with
    rhythm and different voices. They played Glenn Miller's Moonlight
    Serenade in both versions; the fully orchestrated version sounded
    pretty good. I couldn't tell what type of SGU it was.
    
    They said the biggest selling songs have been "Wind Beneath My Wings",
    "From A Distance", and one other. Most of these have been in transposed
    keys, which is a major selling point. The references to MIDI mentioned
    the future, but I didn't know whether they meant it was a future
    feature of the Notestation or that MIDI is the wave of the future in 
    music.
    
    The spot was recorded at The Music Center in San Francisco.
    
    Mike

    
    Yeah, that's another big feature for the karaoke crowd - they can get
    the stuff in their personal keys; bound to be a subject of much debate.
    

    Re: -.a few of the last few
     
    I agree that the SGU, based on my "hands-on" experience, isn't all
    that great a unit; what IS nice, though, is to be able to audition
    the song so you can form some notion of what it actually could sound
    like on your setup.
    
    The two MIDI flavors:  one is "vanilla", one is "Pro-MIDI"; perhaps
    the vanilla goes for $ 4.95 and the pro goes for $ 10.00, but there
    I go speculating again, we just need to wait and see the actual
    situation when the day arrives that you can buy a sequence.
     
    During my "experiments" at Music Music Music in Santa Clara, there
    were some vocalists present shopping around for regular sheets for
    their gigs . . . they became *VERY EXCITED* when they "discovered"
    (just by virtue of looking over my shoulder to see what the hell I
    was doing with that black monolithic thing) that they could transpose
    keys and audition the new key, change it again and again until they
    found a key to their liking, and then print the sheet in their
    favored key for that particular song, so I suppose this thing does
    have something going for it from a singer's point of view.
    
    I hate to admit it, but a lot of my wife's pals are into karaoke
    (not to mention lots of other stuff that just drives me bananas,
    at least all us husbands are into beer drinking and get along with
    each other in that mode).  NO WAY am I gonna EVER explain to her
    about "NoteStation" (unless, conceivably the day might come when
    she insists on buying her own damn karaoke box, then I might persuade
    her that "something better" is already available with the gear I
    already have and she merely needs to start a sequence collection
    instead of spending valuable $$$ on one of those stupid karaoke boxes).

    'Concept' is the word I suppose. It's got to be a success. I got a
    sequence from a commercial firm for "New York,New York", and it still
    gets me going. It's not the quality of the individual tones so much, 
    it's the playing/voicing (ie. the musical bits).
    If the quality of the NoteStation library songs  (ie. midifiles) is 
    sufficiently good, then I reckon we're looking at a best-seller. All
    sorts of uses.
    
    Jim Burke