Conference napalm::commusic_v1

    If your looking for good Hammond/Leslie sounds, check out the new
    keyboard from Hammond. Don't know the # off hand, but the local 
    music stores should have them. Also advertised in this months Keyboard
    mag. Great sounds, drawbars, leslie and midi to boot.
    
    I hauled B3's and leslies for many years in my younger days, this would 
    have been my dream come true.
    
    Enjoy...

    I also saw the Rhodes VK-1000 in the Roland Mag. Look's like something
    I may consider. Anybody have a price and how much the VK-1000 weights?
    How about a price on the new Hammond? 

     Rick L.
    

	There are now apparently three B3 clones on the market. Hammond/Suzuki,
	Roland/Rhodes, and some Italian clone whose name I don't have that's
	supposed to be a knock-off of the Hammond/Suzuki.

	I have a call into Roland for some real info and a demo tape.

	I'll report in later.

	/pjh
	I have a call into Roland for some real info and a demo tape.

	I'll report in later.

	/pjh

	Got a poop sheet from the Roland rep. Some specs:

	Keyboard: Weighted 76-key, velocity sensitive (you can disable
		  velocity sensitivity via a pushbutton)

	Sound Source: "Adjustable SA Synthesis"... whatever
	Maximum Polyphony: 16

	Memory: 64 patches, + M-256E memory card (64 patches)

	Built-in effects: Wow, Overdrive/Distortion, EQ, Rotary Effect,Reverb

	Switches: Play, System, Patch, Tone (Part 1-3), Edit, Write, Internal,
		  Card, Overdrive/Distortion (on/off), Rotary (on/off), 
		  Reverb (on/off), MIDI out prog change (ext Zone 1,2),
		  MIDI out tx ch (ext Zone 1,2), Rotary (Stop,Slow,Fast),
		  Function (F1-F5), Enter, Exit, Cursor (up/down/left/right),
		  MIDI Out On/Off (Ext Zone 1,2), Drawbar (patch/manual),
		  Percussion (Normal/Soft), Bender (Normal/Rotary), 
		  Increment, Decrement, bank 1-8, Patch 1-8, Power on/off.

	Controls: Drawbars x9, Percussion drawbars x4, Assignable sliders x3,
		  Master Volume, Bend/Mod, Mix Level, Control Level


	Display: 240x64 backlit LCD

	Jacks/Connectors: Line In (L,R), Line Out (L/R), Balanced Out XLR (L,R),
			  MIDI In/Out/Thru, Assignable Pedal In x4, Phones Out,
			  Signal In
	Dimensions: 1255(W)x520(D)x115(H)mm
		    49 3/8" x 20 1/2" x 4 1/2"
	Weight: 22kg (48lb 8 oz)


	Basically the beast is a combination keyboard controller, mixer,
	and an organ clone with some extra voice capability (Rhodes piano,
	for example). It allows 3 keyboard zones, which can be split to other
	MIDI controllers (i.e. upper manual and pedalboard). You can mix inputs
	from external sources (i.e. piano module) with the internal sources,
	and it gives you some measure of FX, one of which is the Leslie
	simulator, which sounds like it should be pretty good - upper/lower
	speeds and rate deltas are programmable for instance. 

	List price is $3295. Ouch. I got a quote of $2600 from my local music
	store. I'm looking elsewhere too. I'll need a piano module (Emu
	Proformance/1?) since the Rholand doesn't "do pianos".  

	Looks like a pretty interesting board. There are some features I like
	over the Hammond, except that the price is a bit steep. 

	/pjh

       $2600.00???  Ya right.... Back to the Want Ad.
    
    Rick L.
    
    

Having just bought the Hammond XB-2, I got real nervous when I saw the ad
for the VK1000 - but at $2600 its more than $1000 over what I paid and
18 lbs heavier. It seems to me the main differences are the 76 weighted keys, 
Built in piano, separate drawbars for percussion, built in reverb, and (if I understand
correctly) separate leslie speeds on the higher and lower frequencies,

BTW the XB-2 is listing at $1995, and $2195 with reverb.
EU Wurlitzers quoted $1600; I got mine a bit cheaper at MUSIC TOWNE (a Hammond
dealer) in Worcester.

Ron

	The more I look at it, the less impressed I am. It doesn't do *that*
	much, and for that much $$$ it should be capable of a lot more.

	I'm gonna be in NYC all next week, I think I'll stop by 48th st
	and see if anybody has one there.  

	How is the XB-2 as a MIDI controller?

	/pjh

What do the VK1000 and the XB-2 have that makes them so much more expensive 
than an old Korg CX-3 or BX-3 organ? MIDI can be added to these units fairly
cheaply ($200 for the CX-3). Do the VK1000 and the XB-2 sound *that* much 
better? Do they have a lot of controller features ? (can't imagine velocity-
sensitivity and aftertouch on a Hammond organ). 

Mike

    Well, I was at one of the music stores in beautiful downtown
    Hamilton, Ontario, Canada and I saw the VK1000. After putting my eyes
    back in their sockets, I proceeded to watch a gent play the living
    bejeebers out of it. However, he was piddling around with a rack mount
    unit (Ensoniq SQ-16 or something ?), so I can't vouch for everything I
    heard. I will say, however that he was doing a lot of after-touch,
    pitch-wheel fancy stuff on the VK1000, and whatever it was triggering,
    it was doing just fine. The organ voices he demo'd were darn nice,
    IMHO, and the Leslie effect was pretty cool. However, when he demo'd
    the rack mount unit's organ voices, there was no comparison ( obviously
    the rack has greater flexibility on its side). I didn't get to play the
    VK1000 (this guy I'm talking about would have intimidated Rick Wakeman,
    let alone a keyboard-rookie guitar type such as myself), but from what
    I saw, it may be worth the price (in the States; up here it'll be twice
    as much). Go back and look at the features note. It's not bad. 

    Oh, I forgot. The VK1000 is massive (it reminds me of that Moog that
    came out in the late 70's that you could store presets on; was it the
    MemoryMoog or something else ?). Kind of like the old Fender Rhodes
    too, though not as thick in the back, but big just the same (this ain't
    no CZ-101, campers).

in reply to .8

I'm not at all familiar with the KOrg CX3 or BX-3. I agree that the price for
the XB-2 and the VK1000 seems high for what they provide. After all, how hard 
can it be to generate 9 different tones, set amplitutes on each according to
the drawbars, and then add them together. The XB-2 does generate velocity
information and I use it to play a piano module. It also provides some degree
of midi controller functionality which I haven't made much use of yet. What
sold me on the unit though was its sound which came closest to a B3 of any
synth I had heard, and the ability to get more expression using the drawbars,
leslie, and percussion harmonics.

Of course, what I can make it do vs what a Jimmy McGriff could make it do
are miles apart and I am finding it a bit discouraging. I'm not yet able to 
make enough use of the drawbars for expression to feel I've justified the cost
over e.g. a Korg M-3 with a good organ card which would have been ~$700 
cheaper. The built in leslie can be put to good use but I probably could 
have also got that in an outboard unit. 

On the other hand, I suppose if I add up the cost of individual features and
consider the advantage of having it all packaged together, the price is more
reasonable compared to the alternatives. The VK1000 would be a really nice
package for the R&B player who just needs piano and organ and nothing else
- the weight and the price will probably be acceptable to some number of 
players. However, it certainly seems that Hammond is trying to cash in on the
pentup demand for a B3 alternative. It will be interesting to see if the cost 
comes down on either the XB-2 or the VK1000 once that demand is satisfied.

Ron 

	Re: random thoughts about current topic

	Still haven't seen one. I was down in NYC all last week, went to 48th
	St, Manny's closed for holidays, Sam Ash didn't have one. They had
	an XB-2.

	The tone generation isn't pure sine waves. They modeled the fundamental
	generators (tone wheels) on both of these keyboards, so they sound
	much more like a b-3 than any of the predecessors. The percussion
	and keyclick is very closely modeled, which is not the case on 
	the mid-80's technology boxes (like the Korg). The Leslie fx
	are supposed to be very realistic, which saves the trouble of
	lugging that kind of mass around.

	The VK-1000 has lots of little extras like built-in mixer, fx,
	sysex, keyboard zoning, etc. that the XB-2 doesn't have to the
	same extent. The XB-2 has an 11-pin Leslie connector in it though.
	The VK is supposed to have a more weighted keyboard feel, you can
	disable the velocity sense as well (makes sense for organ). Also
	balanced outputs.

	Now as to if it justifies the price... I dunno. Won't until I see
	one. Street price is looking pretty solid at around $2600 bux, plus
	you need an outboard SGU for pianos, synths, etc. Quotes are
	all coming in around $3100 for the whole package. 

	Is it what I'm looking for? well maybe, but at that price I can
	wait a bit to see what else is coming along. I play R&B primarily
	these days to make my beer money, so as to functionality, it would
	certainly consolidate my rig, even if it would take up more real
	estate on stage than what I have now (EPS/ESQ on stage).

	

	/pjh

	Next month's KEYBOARD claims to have a feature onthe original Hammonds
	with a comparison to today's things from Hammond and Roland.

	Chad
	

    A little off the topic, but related ... for some decent B-3 sounds,
    check out the Yamaha CVS-10 SGU module.  [I'm selling mine in a recent
    forsale note, since I get my B-3 sounds in other ways now].  Tiny unit
    with drawbar sounds, Leslie, etc. in a multitimbral box . . . cost
    about $800-$1000 for a new one ... hmm, I wonder what the new Hammond
    and VK1000 sound like?!
    
    	Jim

    The latest Keyboard (Nov?) is a special B3 issue.  Included are:
    
    - B3 history and drawbar secrets of the stars
    
    - blindfold test between a real B3, Korg CX3, Voce, Suzuki XB2, Rhodes
    VK
    
    - reviews of the XB2 and VK
    
    Some hot tidbits:  
    Korg no longer has parts for CX3 and BX3 organs, good luck if you find
    one that is busted!  Hammond/Suzuki is making a twin board  with pedals
    version of the XB2 in a B3 lookalike case...wow!!
    
    							Brian

    Re the B# lookalike: they were going to make the actual synth
    components separable, i.e. you do NOT have to lug a B3-equivalent to
    gigs!

	I voted with my wallet. I ended up getting an Ensoniq SQ-1-plus instead,
	it was $1175 vs $3100 for the equivalent setup (with less capability).

	I just couldn't justify paying an extra $2K for 9 drawbars, and not
	get an integral piano as well. I really didn't want extra boxes on
	stage, nor did I want a huge, heavy (50+ lbs) keyboard. 

	/pjh