Conference napalm::commusic_v1

2706.0. "Recording multiple tracks without a 4-track" by KOALA::RYAN (Trite and trite and appallingly boring) Tue Aug 27 1991 13:38

	Here's a note for recording issues with non-multi-tracking
	hardware. Our specific case:

	We're trying to record a song with sequenced drums (Yamaha QX-21
	driving a Roland D-5 keyboard), electric bass (Ibanez, active
	electronics), acoustic guitar, lead vocal (female) and
	tambourine. We really want to get this done within a week or
	so. We plan on buying a 4-track before too long, but don't
	want to do it under time pressure (we're keeping our eyes open
	for good used deals). Also, the experience with this configuration
	should be beneficial in choosing the right 4-track equipment and
	getting the most out of it.

	We have two Dolby tape decks, a borrowed 4-channel Radio Shack
	mike mixer, and a dbx NX-40 box for noise reduction (plus one
	Shure SM57 mike and couple of cheap mikes).

	How can we best make use of this configuration?

	My latest attempt (this is overall the first attempt at "serious"
	recording, as opposed to putting a couple of mikes in the middle
	of a room with a bunch of people playing):

	Step 1: Recording drums & bass

	Good tape deck (Nakamichi), Dolby off, patched through dbx box
	with dbx In. Plug keyboard into channel 1 of mike mixer, bass
	into channel 2 (mixer in mono mode), outputs to dbx->Nakamichi.

	Problem 1: Bass sounds distorted. There are three contributors
	to level here (volume pot on bass, mixer slider, tape input
	levels), and to get a strong signal all three have to be near
	max. The only one that alleviates the distortation is the bass
	pot, so I'm doing this with the other two levels at max. I can
	get a listenable slightly-distorted sound by reducing the bass
	pot (actually it's pretty interesting, but not what I want for
	this song). I'm recording at about 0db (peak) on the Nakamichi
	meters. My question: have I just discovered why compression
	is so important? Or am I missing something else? Is there anyway
	to get a decent bass recording without buying a compression box
	first? The easiest option, of course, is to sequence the bass
	part - I might just try that tonight anyway, but I'd prefer a
	bass guitar sound. I may also try playing through my amp and
	miking it.

	A previous attempt without dbx in the loop had the same result,
	so the dbx box isn't at fault.

	Step 2: Overdubbing acoustic guitar

	Play dbx-encoded tape of drums/bass in cheap tape deck (Realistic),
	left and right channels to channels 1 & 3 (left) of mixer (now
	in stereo mode). Plug left channel output of mixer into left input
	of good tape deck (copy dbx-encoded parts). Plug mike into channel
	2 of mixer (right), right output of mixer into dbx->good tape deck
	(so the guitar gets encoded to dbx). BTW, for all of this the good
	tape deck outputs are attached to the dbx box going to a receiver,
	and I'm monitoring the decoded output from the headphone jack. The
	guitar part comes out pretty good this way. The spaghetti behind
	the boxes is pretty horrible though:-), especially since, being
	short of line cords, a couple of cords are "split" (the left side
	connecting two things, and the right side connecting two entirely
	different things).

	Problem 2: In this configuration, the bass/drum signal coming into
	the good tape deck is extremely weak. When I play the Realistic
	tape deck through the receiver, it generates an equivalent level
	to other stereo components. What's the problem here? A previous
	attempt without dbx in the loop had pretty much the same effect,
	although adding dbx did result in a yet weaker signal (that's
	called compression, son:-).

	Step 3: Overdubbing vocal/tambourine (not attempted yet)

	The above leaves me with a dbx-encoded tape, with bass/drums on
	the left channel, guitar on the right. Assuming I can get a
	decent bass/drums recording, my plan is to play this tape in
	the Realistic deck, out to channels 1&3 (left) of the mixer (stereo),
	directly to left channel of Nakamichi. We'll probably try to
	record the tambourine with the vocal. Mike into channel 2 (right)
	of mixer, right output through dbx to right channel of Nakamichi.
	This would generate a dbx-encoded tape with most of the instruments
	on the left channel, voice and tambourine on the right. Then we
	would decode this tape into the mixer in mono mode to produce
	a Dolby master. This would mean that the only things that would
	have to be live-mixed (is that a real term?) would be bass against
	drums and voice against tambourine - the rest of the mixing could
	be done "on tape".

	Does that sound reasonable? Any betters ideas on how to get the
	most out of our equipment?

	Mike

    I used to do this kind of 2-deck line/mic mixing all the time, though
    without dbx.  A couple of your problems sound like poor cables
    attenuating the line signals.  I'd have done the acoustic guitar first
    and then bass/drums, lastly final guitar and vocals - drums use a wide
    freq. range, probably lost in the intermixes.. dull cymbals/snare, etc.
    Don't know why you can't get a clean bass/ drums mix - perhaps the
    input channels on the mixer are overdriven ?
    
    karl

	I realized what the distorted bass problem was - plugging
	the bass phone plug into the mike input (just a little too
	much juice, methinks, and no trim on the mixer). I tried
	sequencing the bass (AcouBass2 wasn't half-bad), which 
	gave me a good first recording with bass/drums on the left, 
	guitar on the right, but the problem with too low a level
	trying to play it back from the second deck through the 
	mixer was even worse. Seeing that to record anything 
	even in the first place requires both the mixer sliders 
	and tape input controls to be close to max, I think the 
	mixer is just plain attenuating the signals too much (yes,
	it does have a fresh battery). This configuration doesn't
	really seem to be workable.

	On the bright side, Dee is more willing to let me buy a
	4-track now:-). I had been planning to wait for a good
	used deal, but based on what I've been reading in this
	conference and prices I've seen in the Want Advertiser,
	it looks like a new Tascam 424 would be about as good a
	deal (allowing for the security of buying new vs. used)
	as the used machines in the same price range. I'll be
	looking at 4-tracks (the 424 in particular) and giving
	this week's Want Advertiser one last try, and just might
	buy a 4-track in the next few days.

	Mike

    	FWIW,  :-)
    
    	I've been using (1) count 'em one, dolby B denon deck and a
       (gasp) walkman, a Radio Shack (The cheap one) and two (gawd not
       more junk!) Radio Shack Mics.  [They were gifts ok????? :-)
    
    	The thing I discovered is that anything like bass should be
        recorded last as you dub back and forth. And, I always record
        the first tracks slightly louder cause they go down in volume
        as you keep adding tracks.
    
        Jay who_may_spring_for_a_low_tech_porta_03  :-)