Conference napalm::commusic_v1

    
    Matty,
    
    I once had the luck to be on the Kraftwerk set. In their Autobahn/Trans
    Europe Express days they used modules *not* drum machines. The modules
    were custom built analog devices similar which were triggered by metal
    drumsticks that made contact with metal plates (just as a switching
    device, similar to keyboard key). The best reproduction of their sound
    TMOO comes from analog synths such as Moog and ARP (the real stuff, not
    the samples. Samples don't have the same behaviour/character) that you
    trigger with a step time programmed sequencer (either an old analoque
    one that does it automatically, or a heavily quantized software
    sequencer, or a drummachine - anyone will do - that functions as a
    triggering device (connect via midi to CV gate/voltage). 
    
    The easy option is to buy a modern drummachine with hybrid sounds on
    board. In a Dutch music store I played around with (I believe) a fairly
    recent Roland machine that had the TR-808 drumset on board (one of the
    most succesful old analog drummachines). Personally I don't think they
    come close to the Kraftwerk sound, but there it's a matter of how
    important it is to you so sound alike and how much money you're willing
    to invest (the old gear is usually quite cheap though).
    
    - Jeroen -

	Simmons has arguably one of the more "electronic" of sounds.
	Earlier companies involved were Moog, E-mu I think, they used
	modular components. You can get a used Simmons head for about
	$100-$150 I think (at least out of want ads in VT USA)...

	/pjh

    If you have a machine that can run drum samples through filters
    (preferably with time variance and resonance) you can get a lot of those 
    types of sounds.  For example, I ran a basic bass drum through a
    low-pass filter with the resonance cranked all the way up.  Got
    something that sounded like water dripping in a cave.
    
    Steve

    Talk about a simple answer....as .1 said, use a synth.  The earliest
    synth percussion units like the Synare and SynDrum (heard all over
    reggae tunes from the late 70s onward) were simple analog units, then
    Simmons came along.  These types of sounds can be created on most any
    synth.  Most factory patch sets give you one or two to build from.  i
    used to use some Simmons-like sounds on a Casio CZ until I got the $$
    to buy a TR505.  I still use the old ESQ-1 "K+SIMS" when I want some
    techno-thwack.
    
    As far as MIDI drum boxes, by the time MIDI arrived, so had digital
    sampling.  I might be wrong but even the trusty TR808 was pre-MIDI
    wasn't it?  
    
    							Brian

    Yes, TR-808 was pre-MIDI.
    
    Before I sold my Arps a few years back (Axxe & Odyssey), I used to use
    them in conjunction with a Roland TR-707.  I would plug the TRIG OUT of
    the TR into the trigger in on the Arps (and daisy chain the two Arps). 
    The TRIG OUT on the TR 707 corresponded to one of the on-board drum
    sounds (drumstix?); but with the TR instrument-specific volume turned
    all the way down, I could use the Arps for percussive effects. 
    Unfortunately, the Arps had no "patch memory", and re/creating sounds
    was fairly hit-or-miss.  The possibilities were killer, though.
    
    If you have a unit with a decent filter and a noise generator (and your
    programming chops are honed), you should be able to get decent
    techo-noises - everything from toms to snares to *weird* FX.  Problem
    is, if you get too carried away, you'll eat up polyphony on your synth.
    
+b

    re.1 to .5
    
    I've been planning on a TG33 (which has 2 drum patches, 61 sounds each
    I think). The TG33 doesn't have filters, so what you've been saying
    about creating the synthetic drum sounds would be difficult.
    
    Also a couple of months ago I asked if I would be able to edit
    *each* sound - someone said I would only be able to edit the whole 61
    sounds at once, which would eat up polyphony.  I'm not too impressed by
    this either.
    
    I'm interested in saving money (I'm good at this - I've hardly bought
    any kit yet ;-) so I don't want to spend extra on a percussion module. 
    However I consider having synthetic drum sounds to be very very
    important.  The old 626's, 707's etc are dead cheap, but syncing them
    up would be a pain in the a$$, and costly.  Maybe I need something
    other than the TG33 - I just like the simplicity of the synthesis (for
    a beginner like me), the vector control, the polyphony, the
    multitimbrality and most of the presets.
    
    Is there another box that does all this?  I don't know what 700 pounds
    is in dollars, but a TG33 is 450 pounds.  This is my limit, though this
    could be raised another 200 if it has keys.
    
    Thanks
    
    
    matty

    A  Casio CZ-101 might fill the bill.  First, it's cheap.  Second, it's
    multitimbral so you can have up to four synth drum sounds available at
    a time (for instance, a kick, snare, toms and hihat).  And it has the
    type of programming hooks you need to get good synth drum sounds.  The
    drums in the TG33 can fill the bill for non-synth drum sounds.  Of
    course, you can also use the CZ-101 to do other stuff besides drum
    noises.
    
    
    							Brian

    At �1 = $1.71 (roughly the current exchange rate), �450 = $769.50, and
    �700 = $1197.  In the states, either amount would buy you some
    excellent sounding gear.
    
    I must confess that I haven't read all the TG33 topics, so I don't know
    the details on your fancy of the TG33 ... but for my money, I'd get a
    Proteus ($675US, about �400).
    
    If you're set on the TG33 and don't mind spending an additional �200,
    you might want to have a look at the HR16 or the DR550 (is that the new
    Boss unit?).  Both have excellent drum sounds.  I can't speak for the
    DR550, not having heard it, but it supposedly has 808 samples on board. 
    I know that the HR16 has "electronic" kicks, toms, and a snare.  I'd
    think that both would be accessible given your budget.  I have an HR16,
    BTW.  It's not the best machine on the market, but the samples are very
    usable, and tunable, and stackable, and (etc).  But you said keys were
    a requirement, didn't you?  Sigh...
    
    Brian made a good point earlier about the ESQ-1.  If you can pick one
    of those up cheap, you'll have your techno-drum sounds (or at least the
    ability to generate them).  I'd think that you could get a new Proteus
    and a used ESQ and be flat satisfied and within budget.
    
    This all assumes that prices in the US are roughly equivalent in the
    UK, apart from the exchange rate.
    
+b

    I would just like to point out that the �/$ exchange rate for consumer
    goods is usually less than 1:1.
    
    Your $500 synths will usually retail for �550 - �600 in the UK - and
    it's only available here just after it has become obsolete in the
    States!
    
    winge winge
    
    Martin Robinson @BSO

    The Roland SPD-8 (~$700 US.) MIDI percussion controller/SGU has lots of 
    'real' drum sounds plus quite a number of TR808 and Simmons-type
    sounds.  While I like the Simmons for their bite, the 808 stuff sounds
    incredibly cheesy (like early Orchestral Manoeuvreses In The Dark).
    
    karl

    
    ok, since some of you prefer brief answers:
    cheap = TR606 ($125 streetprice) + midi-to-sync converter (average 75$)
    + (but this is an option) second hand Korg ms-10 (100$). All second
    hand of course. This'll do Yazoo/Kraftwerk nicely.
    - Jeroen - 

    
    Guess I'm not good at brief replies. Previous configuration ought to be
    TR303 (*not*)606. (glad it wasn't a customer quote)
    J.

    Can someone tell me more about these MIDI/CV converters?  I've seen
    adds for stuff to control more than just a single CV synth.
    
    Are the basics that the MIDI/CV converter just matches the timing?
    
    
    matty

    The basic purpose of a MIDI/CV converter is to translate note-ons to
    the proper control and gate/trigger voltages so that the CV synth plays the
    note you want.  More advanced applications include mapping things like
    pitch bend, mod wheel, aftertouch, sustain pedal and other controllers
    to control voltages (of more use on modular synths than things like the
    SH-101, MiniMoog or Odyssey).
    
    							Brian