Conference napalm::commusic_v1

    Any chance anybody could put this into Midi File Format, so I could
    load it into one of my P.D. sequencers for my Atari ?
    
    Not being much of a musician I like messing with pre-written peices & I
    always thought the [.SEQUENCES] section of MIDILIB was a bit light.
    
    	Many Thanks,
    		Stuart P.

If someone volunteers to convert smus to midi file, I coudl upload the
smus version, because dmcs ca make smus (and they are about 4:1 more compact
than dmcs format).
Tom

    If I remember correctly, Vision can read DMCS.  Now if I can figure
    out what to do about the lzh formatting...   Is this anything like
    ARC format?  If so, there is a Mac ARC-reader I could use.

    
    
    	I can do the translation this weekend on my Amiga. If I don't
    see it done before Sat. I do it Sunday.
    
    		Steve Peters
    

    No luck here.  ARCMAC doesn't like the file format.

    Re .3
    
    I uploaded a LZHard for the Atari to the Atari software library (see
    the atari notes file) if that helps anybody. It's a 'self unzipping'
    TOS program. No source I'm afraid.
    
    		Stuart P.
    
    P.S. I also uploaded an PD Atari Sequencer which reads Midi File if
    anybodys interested.

    I've uploaded to MIDI::A$:[MIDILIB.DEPOSIT]B9THSMF.LZH, which is
    the Standard MIDI File format of Tom's transcription.  I just created
    a tempo/time signature map in the first track to match the tempo
    and time signature changes of the piece, then played the DMCS version
    from one Amiga into Dr. Ts KCS on another Amiga and saved it in
    MIDI file format.  It's in LHARC format again.  For PC owners, the
    program to un-archive the program is found on:
      CSCMAS::SYS$MSDOS:[ARC-LBR]LH113C.EXE (After downloading, run
    the .exe and it will self-extract LHARC.EXE and LHARC.MAN (Docs).
      The Amiga version in in TAPE::USER2:[upload]lharc121.ZOO
    
    Have fun,
    
    Terry
    

    Can somebody please upload this in plain old MIDI file format, minus
    the compression, etc?  Or point me at a Mac program that can read this
    stuff.  LHARC is not a format in common use in the Mac world.

Also, it is protected and not readable.  Thanks very much for doing it.  I look
forward to playing with it.

Burns

    I put Tom's original DMCS file in MIDI::A$:[MIDILIB.SEQUENCES.CLASSICAL]
    Like -.1, though, I would prefer simple SMF format for all submitted
    sequences *without* compression, since there's plenty of extra space
    on A$ (about 90000 blocks).  Could someone just put a plain
    uncompressed version of Tom's piece in MIDILIB.DEPOSIT for me?  
    
    Thanks,
    Dan (MIDILIBrarian) 

I am glad people enjoy this piece, but I didn't write, Beethoven did, and
I didn't transcribe it for piano, Franz Liszt did that.
The only adjustments I made were to compress up the low dynamics so they
wouldn't be too quiet for all you signal/noise freaks out there. ;-)
On commusic viii you'll here me playing.
Tom

    re .8 .10
    
    I'll upload the uncompressed version tonight.  It goes from 38K
    compressed to 92K uncompressed, so it will increase the upload/download
    time by a factor of about three.  I'll put it in
    MIDI::A$:[MIDILIB.DEPOSIT]B9VIVACE.SMF and let Dan move it as usual.
    I hope not too many of you have to download it over 1200 baud.
    
    Terry
    

    Thanks Terry.  I've moved it to MIDI::A$:[MIDILIB.SEQUENCES.CLASSICAL]
    and deleted all the other formats that had been given to me.
    
    I know that this may casue some people problems having to download over 
    1200 baud, but I think this is the best way (having it uncompressed) since
    there are so many different types of compression formats and only some
    types work on certain machines.
    
    I look forward now to downloading it myself!
    
    Dan

	Thanks again, to everyone - especially Tom and Terry, and of 
course Ludwig and Franz.  There's another conversation going on in the 
Amiga conference, (currently unreachable due to the move,  BOMBE::AMIGA 
when it comes back).  I downloaded someone's conversion B9?????midi.lzh 
last night, probably Terry's since it has the tempo track.  Minor 
problem, although the tempo track shows as track 1 there appears to be 
nothing in it (I'm using Bars and Pipes) is there some switch to 
explicitly point at and understand a tempo track ?

	Reg

PS	Nice touch naming the other tracks with the "Credits"

PPS	Why couldn't I load up DMCS to play it and load up Bars and 
Pipes to record it on the same AMIGA ?   Aren't there separate 
transmit and receive buffers on the serial port ?  Isn't the Amiga 
multi tasking ?  Doesn't the serial line diagnostic test do exactly 
this with the turnaround jumper plug ?

	R	{Oh,  a few  (-:'s  sprinkled appropriately}

Uh, Dan, did you delete the dmcs version?  That means people with only
amiga and dmcs and no knowledge of the amiga lib couldn't play it.
Leaving me disadvantaged and in the dark.  Oh, I have the original.

Tom
;-)

Uh, Dan, did you delete the dmcs version?  That means people with only
amiga and dmcs and no knowledge of the amiga lib couldn't play it.
Leaving me disadvantaged and in the dark.  Oh, I have the original.

Tom
;-)

    Uh... yeah... I did.  Oops...
    
    I sort of forgot/didn't realize that if one can't export SMF then
    they most likely can't import it as well. Where's my brain when I 
    need it...
    
    Tom, if you care to upload it again (sorry for making you do this
    twice) then I'll post it in the same directory as the SMF file,
    but with a different extension.  Also, please don't compress it.
    
    Sorrrry!
    Dan

Let's just point them to amiga lib.
There isn't any point putting uncompressed files on the network.
Why should the file be uncompressed?
Anyway, I won't move it up again.  It's in tape: upload in dmcs lharc 
format and it's 
in midi lib in midi format.  That's enough copies for one lifetime.
Tom

    re. .14  -Tempo Track
    
    Dr. Ts KCS allows time signature changes only on track #1. For example,
    with beats per quarter note set at 24, 
    		SM	36  = 3/8 time
    The piece uses 3/8, 1/4, 2/4, 4/4, and 7/8 so I calculated the proper
    number of steps for each time signature change to occur and typed
    in the appropriate SM event.  Track 1 also contains the TM events
    which change the tempo, again at the appropriate step.  Not knowing
    Bars and Pipes, I don't know where it keeps track of time signature
    and tempo changes.  I wondered how the SMF format handled these,
    since the only SMF files I have loaded into KCS are the ones created
    by KCS (except for a few MIDI Records).
    
    Maybe I need to print out a text file of Track 1 and upload it.
    Then you can input your own changes at the appropriate steps in
    whatever way Bars and Pipes handles such changes.  The calculations
    of the proper steps was the hard part, inputting them from a text
    file would probably take 3-4 minutes.  Just out of curiosity, is
    anyone else having problems with Track 1 being empty?
    
    re. 12 <Why couldn't I load up DMCS to play it and load up Bars
    	    and Pipes to record it on the same AMIGA ?>
    
    I have done that before.  As long as your CPU can keep up with the
    complexity of the piece, just put the cable from MIDI out to MIDI
    in on the Amiga, set MIDI clock out on DMCS MIDI setup and set the
    sequencer to sync to MIDI clock.  When you're through, DMCS will
    probably crash your system when you exit.
    
    Since I have two Amigas side by side with MIDI interfaces (and since
    the target audience is very discriminating) I chose to avoid any
    potential timing errors and use both machines.  Of course, if you
    play it slow enough, even a stock 68000 Amiga should be able to
    keep up on both sides of the MIDI IN/OUT.
    
    Terry
    

re                     <<< Note 2492.20 by RIPPLE::LUKE_TE >>>
>                      -< Tempo/Time Signature Track help >-

>    re. .14  -Tempo Track
    
>    Dr. Ts KCS allows time signature changes only on track #1. For example,
>    with beats per quarter note set at 24, 
    		SM	36  = 3/8 time

	OK, it sees the track name TEMPO - I just can't see anything in it, 
maybe I need to set up something in Master Params to take note of it.
    
>    I have done that before.  As long as your CPU can keep up with the
>    complexity of the piece, just put the cable from MIDI out to MIDI
>    in on the Amiga, set MIDI clock out on DMCS MIDI setup and set the
>    sequencer to sync to MIDI clock.  When you're through, DMCS will
>    probably crash your system when you exit.

	I forgot aboutr  the midi clock stuff    maybe when I get that 
and the tempo track stuff sorted out it wi��lkl come back to 900 
and somethin bars again   ???


	Sequencers can be real dumb about bars...

    re. .21
    >I forgot about the midi clock stuff   maybe when I get that
    >and the tempo track stuff sorted out it will come back to 900
    >and something bars again  ???
    
    Don't forget the repeat sections in the piece.  The SMF format as
    far as I know doesn't know how to handle repeats, its just one big
    sequential performance, so the acutal bars in the SMF sequence is
    1400 and something.
    
    How do you change time signatures within the sequence in Bars and
    Pipes?  I'll upload the text file of track 1 so you can input it
    manually once you figure out how to do it (if it isn't already there).
    One way to check is to play the DMCS version using MIDI clock out
    and loop the MIDI out to the MIDI in with Bars and Pipes and the
    SMF sequence (muting the output) and synching B&Ps to the MIDI clock
    from DMCS.  If they both end at the same time, the tempo/time map
    is probably there somewhere.
    

    Vision has no trouble finding the tempo information.
    
    Having the entire performance "unwound" sure slows down the screen
    repaints, though.  And I had to set my memory partition to 1.6
    megabytes to hold it all.   First thing to do is break it up into
    smaller chunks.  Knowing where the repeats are supposed to go would
    help.

    It played back fine on my TX81Z.   15400 notes.  Wow.
    
    The tempo map looks a little strange.  It shows up as 384 beats per
    minute, with a time signature of 3/8.  Somehow I don't think Beethoven
    would have used an indication like that.  Feels more like 6/8 to me
    anyway.  The combination makes Vision think there are a really huge
    number of measures.

    re .24 
    
    The MIDI file was saved with 172 beats per minute, and indeed, it
    was written in 3/8 time.  A couple of sections are in 2/4 time and
    the beats per minute increases to 232.  And then there is a occasional
    bar or two scatter throughout at 1/4, 7/8 and 4/4.
    
    re. 23 - the repeats.
    
    Here is a map of the original piece and the repeats.  You'll have
    to do the math to figure out how them map to the SMF file.  The
    piece as written is 968 bars long, the SMF file is 1414 (I think).
    
    Bar #    9 Begin Repeat
    Bar #  150 End Repeat
    
    Bar #  159 Begin Repeat
    Bar #  387-398 First End
    Bar #  399 Second End
    
    Bar #  427 Begin Repeat
    Bar #  433-434 First Ending
    Bar #  435 Second Ending
    
    Bar #  436 Begin Repeat
    Bar #  505 First Ending
    Bar #  506 Second Ending
    
    Also, for those who can't find the tempo/time map, I have uploaded
    a copy of it called B9Track1.txt.
    
    Terry
    

Just FWIW, I downloaded the piece (in LZH compressed format) to my '286 machine
this weekend.  I uncompressed it and fed it into Cakewalk.  It worked just fine!
I think the measure count was in the 900's though, not 1400.

I saw no special tracks.  Just the title written in tracks 2-6 or whatever and
the piano in track 1.  Cakewalk did find the meter and tempo changes just fine,
though.  (I guess.  There were a lot of consecutive 3/8 and 7/8 measures.  It
also mentioned the scattering of others, but I did not check them out; it did
not have specific measures listed in the meter map).

Just out of curiosity, there were a couple of sysex's in the sequence.  Do you
know offhand what they are?

BTW, it sounds very nice...thanks for sharing it.  My only complaint is with my
synthesizer now.  (Will this be like when CDs first came out?  Everyone had to
rush out and get a new amp and speakers to handle the CD!)  I think maybe I'll
try to move the major bass notes which simulate timpani's in the orchestral
version to a separate track and get some real timps.  That is the part that my
FB01 is worst at...low piano!

Burns

	Thanks Terry, here are the notes I made this week-end while 
trying to tidy it up and make bars and pipes do the repeats instead of 
just sucking a data stream:

Bar	Key	mm	time	repeat		other

1	F Maj	174	3/8
9				|:
57						A
93						C
150				:|
159				|:
170	G Maj
195	F Maj					E
246						F
267						G
353						K
387-398				1st end :|
399				2nd end
423		232	2/4
427	D Maj			|:
433-434				1st end :|
435			1/4	2nd end
436				|:
437			2/4
505				1st end :|
506				2nd end
545		130	4/4
546	F Maj	174	3/8
939			7/8
940			3/8
941						Is there really a 1/16 rest 
						missing from the bass ? (-:, (-:
956		232	2/4
958	D Maj
968				|| END

	These are the bar numbers that you should get to  AFTER  the 
cuts, i.e. cutting from 151 to 293 will make old 294 become new 151, 
etc.  Keep moving ahead, this should work.

	I don't know what the letters in the "other" column mean, 
perhaps they refer to footnotes on the original score, maybe Tom could 
clarify ?

	R

A good local library will have the score for you to study.
Remember, this is not my transcription, it is Franz Liszt's transcription
for piano of the symphony for orchestra, so the low notes are for piano.
yes, those were timpani in the original.
Beethoven's meters were 3/4 and 4/4, but the tempo was too fast for
deluxe music construction set to play (tempo is per quarter note regardless
of meter), so I haved the values after entering it all (having the screen
show notation like the score makes it easier to check clerical errors.)

In the original score, Beethoven indicates playing the 3/4 bars sometimes
in groups of 2 (like 6/4) or 3 (like 9/8) and I tried to accent the bars
to bring that out.  That's why it sounds like 6/8 and 9/8.

To enter huge scores quickly in deluxe music is not too hard.  I can
copy/paste similar sections.  
Using the mouse and known the hot keys for changing the symbols
dropped by the mouse makes the difference.  Being able to compare a musical
score on the screen to a musical score in my lap helps (it would be better
to have a little copy stand to look at next to the monitor) to reduce
clerical error.
I am studying midi file format and smus format.  Perhaps I can write 
a convertor.
Tom

	I've downloaded the B9 stuff and have the .SMF standard midi
	file on my Mac now. Can someone mail me how to convert the
	file into a type that Vision will use as intended.
	(resedit maybe)

	thanks
	Pete
	

    Using ResEdit, set the file TYPE to "Midi".  The file CREATOR can
    be anything.

	I have started working on sequencing the rest of Liszt's transcription
	of Beethoven's 9th
	symphony.  I am now doing the last movement.  I played it in on 
	the keyboard and am now cleaning it up and adding correct tempo
	and meters from the score.  It is almost as slow as entering 
	it all from scratch but not quite.  The last movement has many
	meter and tempo changes.  I decided not to use a tempo track, but
	I see now it would have been better to make out the whole timing
	track up front.  Oh well.
	Tom