Conference napalm::commusic_v1

I don't know how to answer any of your questions, but I have to tell 
you - I love your idea!

-Dan

    
    I think a huge lion ROAAAAR would be effective.
    Or a person screaming in terror (I once saw this in a movie).
    A devlish laugh...a steam train whistle...a huge explosion...
    
    you could get these from special effects records or CD sound libraries
    (usually Universities have these for film projects)  for sampling.
    I would use a diode rectifier on the AC before you put it into the
    trigger input. 
    
    Paul
    
    
    but you better watch out, those kids wont stop ringing once they know
    what's going on!

    Diode Rectifier?  I may need more help.  Are there different types that
    I need to discern from.  (I am Electronically Impared, since there were
    too many EE Majors at my University to allow me to fit into even one
    course.)  
    
    Also, someone told me that the signal may be DC coming from the
    doorbell, not AC.  I tested with my RadioShack $2 tester, with the
    setting on AC volts, and it showed a 12 - 15 volt spike on the readout 
    as my cooperating partner kept ringing the doorbell.  But should I
    have tested with DC volts?   I know that the electrician ran a wire
    from the doorbell to my studio, and also know that the doorbell also
    goes down to the basement to some other box that does some magic on it
    (transformer?).  From whence did he run the wire, and what about
    Naomi?        Helllllpppppppp?     
    
    Ken  (14 days to go)
    
    
    P.S.   No one hungry to do some MIDI programming?  

  RE: .0 & .3

     I think what .2 was alluding to was to use a bridge recitier to convert
ac current to dc.  This is essentially 4 diodes arranged in a square like
pattern.  Diodes only allow current to flow in 1 direction so with proper
arrangement of the diodes, you can put ac current on 2 corners of the bridge
and at the other two corners you get DC.  You should also place a somewhat
large electrolytic capacitor accross the DC ends to even out the current. If
notes lended itself to drawing, I would attempt a picture.  For a picture
pick up a book on power supplies or general electronics projects. You can
get one Im sure from Radio Shack.  You can also buy a bridge rectifier there
with the diodes already set up properly.  Cost maybe a couple of bucks.
Now as for voltage levels/current levels You will have to find out what the
Drumkat accepts.  This could mean more circuitry.

Hope this helps.

Bill Powers

       I love this kind of stuff.  There should be some good samples in
       Mel Brook's "Young Frankenstein", also.

       Skip the diode crap.  Your doorbell circuit has a little
       step-down transformer, the doorbell switch, and the doorbell.

       Unplug (or otherwise disconnect the transformer), then disconnect
       the doorbell.  OK, now, if the wires coming into your studio
       connect to the switch terminals do (a).  If the wires connect to
       the doorbell terminals do (b).

       (a) Connect the negative terminal of a dry cell (D cell or 9v,
       depending on what the drum kat wants for a trigger) to the shield
       of your trigger input plug.  Connect the positive terminal of the
       dry cell to one of the wires running to your doorbell switch.
       Connect the other doorbell switch wire to the tip of your trigger
       input plug.  When the switch is pressed, almost all of the dry
       cell's voltage will be applied to your drum kat input.

       (b) Connect a dry cell (D cell or 9v) in place of the transformer
       - polarity probably isn't important, but after you make the
       connections, try it both ways to see what happens.  Connect the
       doorbell wires to the trigger inputs on your drum kat.  When the
       switch is pressed, your drum kat gets the battery's voltage.

    RE .5
    
    Thanks for all of that information, but you've got me concerned about 2
    things.  (Can this be so tough?)
    
    #1. I said before that my DRUMKAT trigger input works fine with a
        footswitch.  The kind where you press down once and it's on, you 
        let go and it's off.  No batteries, no nothing.   So why do I want
        to put voltage into my DRUMKAT?  (It probably can take it, because
        it *is* flexible to handle several types of trigger sources, but I
        don't think I want to play with it).  So I just need an on off
        switch.
    
    #2. If what I know in #1 is true, then why do I need to disassemble my 
        entire doorbell assembly just to check this out.   My guess is that
        the electrician put the wires in place to give my an "extension"
        doorbell.  In other words, I believe that I could hook another
        doorbell to the wires coming out of my studio wall.  And if *that*
        is true, then is it DC or AC?   And is there a way to tell?  And
        do I still need a 9 volt battery, or relay?
    
    
    Once again, continued thanks.  At least I have had more time to think
    of more samples.   Perhaps I could have a normal doorbell sample the
    first time someone rings, then a louder one, then louder, then BIG BEN,
    finally with "ANSWER THE DOOR ALREADY!!!!"   
    
    Ken

    This is begining to sound like a simple Radio Shack relay job.  Check
    the voltage of the transformer, and get a relay that matches that.
    
    Connect the wires to the relay coil.  Use one of the switch contacts on
    the relay to act as a foot switch.  No diodes, no muss, no fuss.  Safer
    for your DrumKat, too.
    
    	Eirikur
    

re: .6

	You're right about not needing the battery if your drum kat has
	a provision for a simple footswitch trigger.  My portakit requires
	some sort of voltage input which is why I added the battery to my
	recommendations.

	So, if your doorbell wires are coming off of the doorbell switch,
	you're almost set.  Wire them in place of the footswitch.  BUT,
	you still have to disconnect the doorbell transformer, because
	the doorbell switch will have close to the full output of the
	transformer voltage across it when the switch is not pressed.  In
	fact, if you have a lighted doorbell switch, you already know that
	there's a voltage present when the button is in its normally open
	position.  At least this way you won't have to disconnect the
	doorbell.

	If you use a relay it may not provide the desired results because:
	(a) the relay will be energized all of the time, except when the
	doorbell button is pressed (which means you'll need to use the
	opposite set of contacts [from what might normally be expected] to
	trigger your drum kat, and (b) your doorbell may make some sort of
	feeble noise continuously [depending on a number of factors] due
	to the leakage current through the relay coil.

    Thanks for all your wonderful replies.  I will take a look at both .7
    and .8's solutions  (relay, or doorbell dissassembly).
    
    Now!  No one wants to volunteer to write some MIDI code to randomize input
    to the sampler???   (I'll write to Opcode and see what they can produce
    for me.)
    
    Once again, thanks, and... 
    
    BOO!!!
    
    
    K.R.

    This is the kind of simple task that MIDI Basic could deal with.  It's
    harder to use for complex programs, but this should be a snap.
    
    MIDI Basic is a library that links with MicroSoft QuickBasic, or
    ZBasic.
    
    	Eirikur

    To .0:
    
    Where are you located??  If you're in Central Mass., perhaps one of us
    (myself, perhaps) can come out and wire you up.
    
    As for getting software in on time, Eirikur's suggestion is probably
    the best *easy* way to get it done.  It's doubtful if anyone would be
    able to hack something up on short notice otherwise (of course, for
    *next* year you'll be all set).  In the meantime, it may be enough to
    use the DrumKat's cycling feature.
    
    Also, I may be able to dredge up a cute sample or two for you from my EPS
    library.
      				Mike Lynch
                                      

    RE  .10
    
    I spoke to Opcode yesterday, who politely refused to give me any code
    that handles their MAC MIDI hardware, and they also said that the tough
    part is configuring the modem port, speeds, etc.  So nothing from them.
    The rep did suggest that perhaps I could use the doorbell to trigger
    my Master Tracks Pro sequencer in step mode (each step generating a
    different sound on the EPS).  Novel idea.  Not exactly randomizing, but
    good enough for my needs.   Now, I have to check to see if Master
    Tracks Pro has such a feature.  (I know that you can trigger the
    record, stop, and playback mechanisms from the MIDI keyboard - cross my
    fingers...)
    
    Also, I have tinkered with my Commodore a long time ago, and got to
    know its Passport MIDI interface, so I might dust it off for
    Halloween)  Oh boy, 64K may still work in the 90's!
    
    RE: .11
    
    I live in Delaware, which is one of the United States.  So we are a bit 
    distant.  However, I was in Radio Shack yesterday scratching my head,
    when all of a sudden I noticed this guy with a SCHEMATIC DIAGRAM in his 
    hands, plucking electronic parts from the shelves like an experienced 
    grocery shopper.  He gave me some assistance.  So now I have:
    
        1 Bridge rectifier to convert the 12 volts ac from the wall 
    		to 12 volts DC.  (sorry, I couldn't get to just the
    			          "non current" doorbell wires, 
    				   have to do it this way.)
    	1 capacitor to smooth out the DC voltage
    	1 12 volt DC mini relay 
    	1 Mono phone jack
    	1 cute little plastic box to place my components.
    
    	1 diagram of how to set it all up.
    
    Oh boy!!! If nothing else, the little kids will get to see me set my house
    ablaze for Halloween, but BY GUM, I'm gonna try.
    
    K.R.

    Good luck and happy soldering! Can't wait to hear how it turned out.
                                   
    Paul

    An off-the wall suggestion that may not be as much fun to create but
    could achieve similar results:
    
    Play all your spooky sounds and record them randomly and for specific
    durations on a tape recorder. Then use the doorbell to operate a relay
    which operates the pause control on the tape deck.
    
    The relay would have to be timed to allow the longest sound to play.
    This could cause some problems if the kids keep hitting the doorbell.
    
    Like I said...an off-the wall suggestion..
    Ken
    

So, how did this work out?  Or is it "wait til next year"?

      Thanks to all your help, the HOWLoween project was a sucess.  

THE SETUP:

      At first I set up the doorbell to connect to a bridge rectifier, then
      capacitor, then a relay (as I had been advised), but found out that
      the 9 trigger inputs on the DRUMKAT *did* require some voltage, while
      the 4 footpedal inputs were the one I could have used the relay on.
      But the footpedal inputs can only be used to send one MIDI signal, such
      as a HIGH HAT CLOSE note, and I wanted more than that.   Also, the
      relay turned on, then stayed on for about 3/4 of a second before shutting
      off (I think due to the capacitor), so response to the doorbell was too
      slow.

      So I took off the relay, and fed 12 volts dc to a trigger input.  The
      DRUMKAT has the ability to train the inputs levels, gains, threshold, 
      etc., and that ended up being real tough since my manual was different
      than the chip version.  I finally ended up taking off the capacitor too,
      since I think it was so large that it held the voltage too long.  
      In otherwords, I basically futzed around until I could get one trigger
      with one press of the doorbell.   Not easy, cause the doorbell causes
      two spikes, one for the "ding" and one for the "dong".

      After that, I had the DRUMKAT trigger set to ALTERNATE mode, so it would
      alternate 3 different MIDI notes, and I had to set the gate time on each
      of these to equal the length of each sample I intended to play.  I could
      have set them all to be 6 seconds long, but didn't think of this till
      later.   Next I copied all the trigger settings to one of the DRUMKAT
      pads, so that I could trigger the samples from inside the house also, in
      case the kids only rang the doorbell once.  

      Finally, I linked this to my samples on the EPS.   I had a lot to 
      choose from, but the DRUMKAT trigger could only alternate 3.   I 
      choose 3 more and assigned them to a different pad to play from 
      inside the house, and set up my speaker behind the pumpkin outside.

THE EVENT:
      
      It figures!  We live in a new development, so only about 20 kids showed
      up.  But when they did, they were in for a BLAST!   When they pressed
      the doorbell they got in rotation:

            A woman's shreiking scream (with QUADRAVERB - from sound eff record)
            A wolf howl (Laurie Anderson - BIG SCIENCE)
            A devilish elf laugh (from a "Yuccky Halloween Sounds" tape)
            
      Then I played some ghost "Boo's" on my DX7 to add to the mood, followed
      by hitting my pad inside which alternated:

            Beginning of Beethovan's 5th (Telarc)
            Car crash (sound effects)
            Oh Yeah (Yellow ... played this after they got their candy).

THE REACTION:

      Most of the kids were pretty young, and got scared (and if they didn't
      we opened the door dressed as Cowboys and Indians, shooting off cap guns,
      which really got them confused.  Aren't I mean  :-) )
      Their parents laughed hysterically, and then I would show the kids the
      studio and how it all worked (as best as you can explain to a 6 year old).
 
      This usually ended up with them changing their minds about being scared,
      then they slowed but surely played with the studio toys until they were
      banging incessantly on the DRUMKAT until their parents told them to 
      "cut it out".
      
      And of course they got their candy.

CONCLUSIONS:

      Now that I got it figured out this far, I want to be able to trigger more
      samples.   I tried using the doorbell and DRUMKAT to generate two
      MIDI notes, which would be used as a MIDI "PAUSE/PLAY" to my Master Tracks
      Pro sequencer, but the trigger interaction was not good enough and missed
      a PAUSE or PLAY.

      I'll keep working on it.   And of course, we will be all set for the
      next season.  BEACH BOYS for Christmas???


K.R.

    Oops.  
    
    That's supposed to be "Yello", not "Yellow".
    And I hope I didn't have to pay royalties.  :-)
    
    K.R.