Conference napalm::commusic_v1

    The DEP-5 (Ro, Ro, R-word) is a real nice unit. Stereo in/out, knob
    adjustable delay (includes zipper noise like most/all digital FX
    boxes).
    
    Also does, reverb, gated reverb, chorus, etc. 99 RAM slots, no useless
    ROM.
    
    Also includes parametric EQ.
    
    Edd

        <<< Note 2464.1 by DCSVAX::COTE "To play, turn bottom up..." >>>
    >    The DEP-5   >   Also does, reverb, gated reverb, chorus, etc. 
    
    Does it have that wonderful BOSS Chorus Ensemble chorus ?  I useta love
    it with my Rhodes, and almost anything else.
    
    Also, me not understand Stereo In on a box like this.. I assume it does
    the mix-to-mono-to-FX-back-to-stereo thing.  The stereo IN would just
    be a pass-thru for the dry signal.  I'd be using it from an FX
    send on my mixer, thus set completely wet.  So I could send it mono,
    and use a Y-cord to give it two identical signals on the input.
    
    Edd, how mucho dinero esta ?
    
    Que mucho rack spaces, por favor ?  I'm pretty much out of space.
    
    gracias, carlos

    Does the Roland SDE3000 have the adjustable knob?  It is 1 rack space,
    handles presets, delays up to 8 secs., and is $1K.
    
    Mike

    I'm not sure what the chorus consists of, but, I just closed mine up
    after performing some minor surgery, and there is at least one chip
    in there proudly displaying the Boss logo.
    
    The thing undoubtedly mixes to mono for processing and then breaks the
    signal into "stereo". You can get the delay to bounce from side to
    side. The inputs are labled LEFT/MONO & RIGHT. My keyboard sub-mixer
    only provides a single mono send so that's all the DEP gets.
    
    It's a 1u high unit.
    
    If you can find one (not to imply that they're rare) I'd imagine it
    could be had for less than $400. For whatever the reason, it never made
    it to the list of "this week's hot box" despite it's functionality.
    
    It also does multiple FX at once.
    
    I traded a MV-II for mine. :^)
    
    Edd

    Karl,
    
    You might want to look at Alesis, particularly the Quadra Verb.  You
    can map CC to parameters, so you could adkust the delay times and/or
    feedback from your KX's slider.  Also has a Leslie simulator algorithm.
    The MidiVerb II, which is cheaper, I *think* also has some CC-->parameter
    control...
    
    The one thing noone seems to have (unless I missed it) is synchronizing
    delay time to MIDI clocks...
    
    							Brian

    > The MidiVerb II, which is cheaper...
                   ^^
    
    Did you mean the MV-III? The II is preset only.
    
    Edd

    Yeah, I meant the III...

With more space you could buy up  old used Digitech RDS1900s and 1000s,
which are 8-bit companded mono in/out, but with several you could route 
quadraphonic in/out.  However, they may not take kindly to percussive
peaking.  It depends on the level.
They would be under $100 by now in want ads.
Tom

    Karl:
    
    Another idea is to look at either the Lexicon LXP-1 or LXP-5.  Each is
    a 1/2 rack unit (with wall bug, unfortunately).  I think you can each
    for about 400-450$US.  I have the LXP-1 and have read reviews of the
    LXP-5.
    
    The LXP-1 is primarily a reverb unit but does have some chorus and
    delay settings.  Although the LXP-5 allows (not very easily, if I
    recall the review properly) pretty much total programming from the
    front panel, the LXP-1 only has 2 parameters for each "program"
    available on knobs.  Luckily, I'm pretty sure that the dealy time is
    one of the knobs for the delay settings.
    
    Also, I was thinking that you might be able to control the delay time
    (and maybe some other effects) from that FaderMaster that I think you
    have.  Could let you do some control from the master controller if
    you've got the FaderMaster near your keyboard.  For extra money,
    there's the Lexicon MRC (MIDI Remote Controller) that lets you get
    sliders for just about ALL of the algorithm's parameters.  It is
    another 300$US or so, however.
    
    The LXP-5 is less of a reverb unit, I believe, so it may have
    algorithms even better suited to your application than the LPX-1.  The
    Lexicon algorithms for reverb, etc. sound great (to me, anyway) and
    their MIDI implementation is amongst the most complete I've seen on a
    1/2 rack device.
    
    - John -

    Thanks for the thoughts so far.  It's bizarre that in this era of
    ubiquitous MIDI, no one has made a (successful) DDL that allows delay
    times to sync to/be multiples of MIDI clock data.  So I'm reduced to 
    looking for a unit with a KNOB on front.. how analog.
    
    John, I never purchased a FADERmaster unit- just fantasized.
    
    Re adjusting Lexicon's delay time via MIDI, I should be able to program
    one of the data sliders on my KX88 to do that.
    
    Upon reflection my limit for such a device is probably under $500.
    
    Will check out Edd and John's suggestions, also the Alesis.
    
    thanks !
    
    Oh yeah, I've got several new pieces that heavily use DDL to help
    generate rhythmic complexity.  Lots of fun, but frustrating with a
    preset-only box.
    
    karl (howzabout Commusic VIII soon?)

  
 >   Oh yeah, I've got several new pieces that heavily use DDL to help
 >   generate rhythmic complexity.  Lots of fun, but frustrating with a
 >   preset-only box.
  

	Funny, Karl, but I do that with my sequencer instead of taking up a 
	fex slot. Basically I copy the track I want to delay, and offset it
	by the amount I want to delay it by - if I want to have the delayed
	track softer than the original, then I offset the velocity down by
	a constant, otherwise I just leave it alone. Makes for some nifty
	rhythmic/melodic progressions.

	Other advantage is it is impervious to tempo changes - the offset is
	based on midi clocks not milliseconds.

	Yeah, sounds like it's time for a Commusic VIII. 

	/pjh

    Paul,
    
    Odd.. I have done track offsets with Performer, but for these last
    few, I did the DDL tricks after the fact - during mixdown.  Strange I
    forgot about it.
    
    Thanks for reminding me that there's usually more than one way home.
    
    karl

I use Performer, and certainly know about the track copy'n'shift issue.
But one of the things it won't accomplish is a fast pan.  One of my fave
presets on the MIDIfex is a nice three-echo pan setting.  What it does is

          Left        Center        Right
    
 |   T                orig
 v
     I     hit1
 |
 v   M                               hit2

 |   E                hit3
 v

Explain how I can do THAT with Performer.. well, wait.  Let's say the 
sound on a particular track is from EMAX (pan position center).   EMAX 
    responds to multiple MIDI channels.  I copy the sound to three 
additional patch numbers, and alter the additional patches' pan position 
left, right, and center, respectively.

I would then copy the track 3 times, delaying the track by successively
lonner times, meaning more MIDI clock ticks.  Then I assign each track
to its own MIDI channel, matching the 'supermodemap' already set up
in the EMAX.  When played simultaneously, it oughta sound .. panned.

karl

	hey, I like that pan idea!

	I could do that in KCS too - the EPS will take pan-per-MIDI-channel
	as well, and I can use the same voice by copying it across MIDI
	channels (3 blocks per voice).... hmmm, neat idea. 

	Tell me, does your EMAX have multiple outputs (more than L/R)? You
	could pipe the "delayed" output back to your f/x box from a different
	MIDI channel... Then you'd only have to worry about the pan times.

	Ah well, maybe it's better to just put it all in Performer, then
	it works consistently.  I've found myself putting more and more
	into KCS for that reason. Tempo changes aren't such a problem then, and
	you can stick tempo changes in after the fact and it all stays 
	synchronized. 

	Hmph. Food for thought. 

	/pjh

    Doesn't the Emax respond to pan CC commands via MIDI (I think CC 10)?
    The Proteus does, and allows a sequencer to do what you want very
    nicely.
    
    As for delay synched to MIDI clock ... I thought the Korg A3 did this
    (if not a few others that I can't recall now).  However, at >$1k, it's
    a bit pricey.
    
    I wish that Alesis would come out with another mod for the Qverb that
    would allow DDL to sync to MIDI clock ... at least you can alter the
    pan position via MIDI.
    
+b

	FWIW: My korg SDD-2000 provides 4 second delay, with
	midi Prog change and clock sync, and monophonic sampling
	all for around $300, <$200 used.

	.-1,

	clock sync? How so? Does that mean you can tie delay times to MIDI
	clock sync.?

	curious

	/pjh

	re: -1

	Whats clock sync on the korg sdd2000?

	Well, you have can select midi sync mode, which 
	allows you to select a delay time equal to
	1/2,1/4,1/8,1/12,1/16 of a measure, so your delay
	falls on 
	half,quarter,dot quarter, sixteenth note beats.
	really livens up things.
	the delay can also sample up to 4secs, and you
	play it via midi. (monophonic)

    I did some delay experiments with Performer and the 1000PX last night.
    
    One delay setting I was using on a bassline essentially hit on the
    off-beat, the 'and'.  So I copied the entire bass tract and pasted it
    into a blank track at 1/1/240, bar 1 beat 1 tick #240, as Performer
    has 480 ticks per beat.  And it worked like a champ, except that
    notes on the Kurzweil (mono thumb/slap bass patch) were getting
    trtuncated.  I fixed this by assigning the delayed track to another
    MIDI channel.  No truncation.
    
    Nothing fancy so far, but tonight I'm going to try the 3-pan delay
    setting I described earlier.
    
    karl

    My TX81Zs do all these tricks all by themselves. Delay, pan delay, etc.
    
    ...but it sux up MIDI notes...
    
    Edd

    In the spirit of sync'ing FX to MIDI clocks I came up with a method
    to gate a snare in sync with the tempo using only a sequencer and a
    MidiVerb II (although any MIDI controlled FX box will do).
    
    Simply insert a patch change command that calls up a "null" patch
    (no FX) somplace after the snare hit, and another one someplace before
    the hit. The snare will reverberate until the patch change is
    processed. When the PC command is processed the MVII goes quiet for
    a bit, truncating the reverb in progress. Voila, gated snare. Move
    the truncating patch change around to get longer/shorter gate times.
    
    Edd

    > ooh that's *ugly*...
    
    No, really it's kinda pretty, especially when you watch the display 
    on the MVII dancing in time to the music...
    
    ;^)
    
    Edd

    re: .9
    
    >>> Another idea is to look at either the Lexicon LXP-1 or LXP-5...
    
    I finally dug out my LXP-1 owner's manual last night.  The delay time
    does seem to be accessible from SysEx but setting it accurately enough
    to match a tempo without something like the MRC may be next to
    impossible.
    
    However, I found a flyer on the LXP-5 that Lexicon sent me when the
    LXP-5 was first released.  Included on the list of features is "delay
    times can be slaved to MIDI clock tempo."  So we should add the LXP-5
    to the list of delays that can track MIDI clocks.
    
    - John -