Conference napalm::commusic_v1

    I'm confused. With the exception of real music notation, my copy of 
    Cakewalk (3.0 - I think) does everything you want. Sound record while
    other tracks play back, real-time AND STEP-TIME record from a keyboard,
    edit both track data and piano roll notation, mouse support, macro's,
    200 plus tracks, auto start, etc. etc. etc.
    
    I DO have to use a separate program for standard music notation - DR
    T's - which ain't perfect but gets the job done.
    
    Maybe the demo software you had was really poor or maybe I
    misunderstand what some of the features are that you are looking for
    in a sequencer.
    
    -Neil
    
    

    Bill,
    
    I don't know of any PD software that will fill the bill for all
    these requirements.
    
    I use Jim Miller's Personal Composer, and I highly recommend it for
    most or all of what you need. It's has 32 tracks, track bounce/erase
    capabilities, and an "event editor" where you can go in a tweak the
    midi data, move recorded midi data around, etc. It has a score
    notator that compiles into midi data for playback. With the version
    that I have (2.0) you have to delete your midi-data to re-compile
    the score notation. You can save your old recording, or part of
    it in another file, and overlay it onto your newly compiled midi data
    as a work around to this.
    
    I don't know about using the keypad to record real time. It supports
    the IBM Midi-Feature sound card, so you might get it to work with that.
    
    Version 3.3 just came out (I'm waiting fo mine), and that lists for
    $595.00. Add the price of the music feature card onto that. Version 3.3
    is suppose to be even more powerful and contains enhancements which will
    allow you to do more directly from a mouse.
    
    It may take a while to learn, but doesn't contain many bugs or
    non-feature features. The version may have most or all of the bugs
    removed.
    
    Regards!
    
    Bill

The Cakewalk DEMO was 2.0.  Can anybody tell me what features they added
for 3.0??

Bill Norcott

    re .0
    
    Bill, 
    
    I would agree with the previous Bill that PERSONAL COMPOSER is probably
    the ticket given your requirements.  But you should be aware that
    contrary to what was stated in .0, both Cakewalk and Voyetra's Seq
    Plus can do everything you need EXCEPT for the scoring. (I don't
    knoe about Voyetra's DEMO3000(?)).
    
    Clusters,
    yet another Bill...(sheesshh!! :-0)

Well for example on Voyetra DEMO300 if I try to change the channel # of a 
track or the voice # or hit mute while I'm playing back, It says "can't
do that while sequencer is running".

Say I have three tracks and I want to play them back while I am recording
track #4.  How do I do it?  Or else, I want to record from the PC keyboard
and be able to hit a key and advance to the next beat.  Then, I should be
able to hear what all the other channels are playing on that beat.  Can I
do this?

Sorry about all the questions, normally it is a case of RTFM but with the
demo programs on a BBS you don't get a detailed manual.

They did a review of Cakewalk Profesional in this months Keyboard, I
would like to know what features the pro has that the regular 3.0 
doesn't.

Bill Norcott

    Again, no scoring, but MTP is available for the PC.  The Mac and ST
    versions are real hip pieces of code. 

-b

	Two things that Cakewalk Pro has that 3.0 doesn't: full SMPTE
	support and the ability to deal with the multi-port MPU-401
	cards. 

	I've got Cakewalk 3.0, upgraded from v2.0 after switching from
	the entry-level software supplied with my CMS clone of the
	MPU-401.  I'm just now getting some time in the studio again
	(God, I wish I'd taken piano lessons instead of trumpet) and I'm
	learning 3.0...so far, (with the exception of producing printed
	output) I've not seen anything in any other sequencer that this
	thing can't do.  Having 256 tracks gives a lot of room for
	exploring alternatives...If you're going to spend money on
	sequencer software, I can't recommend Cakewalk too highly. 

	[The preceding is presented as an unpaid, unsolicited endorsement
	of a product that we think is pretty hot!] 

	P.S. the release notes run to five pages so you'll understand if 
	I don't type them all in...Call Twelve Tone Systems in Watertown, 
	MA for additional info.  The only number I have for them is Tech
	Support (1pm to 6pm EST, (617) 273-4668).  Good luck.

    hi, bill,
    
    PCMag reviewed I*M roughly a year ago, and raved about Cakewalk.
    Electronic Musician (or another of that ilk) did a survey about six
    months ago, and the writer described his intention to remain aloof, but
    he was just overwhelmed by Cakewalk and ended up endorsing it. It is
    the concensus winner. I'm bothered, though, by the fact that it doesn't
    do standard notation. That's my preferred idiom (having zip
    acquaintance with any other).
    
    - hoyt

    I too am looking for good IBM PC sequencing software.  I got a
    copy of the Demos of both Cakewalk and Voyetra demo300.  I had
    a question about the documentation.  My music theory is pretty weak.
    I had problems understanding what some of the features did in both
    of the demos.  I would like to ask those of you who have either
    Cakewalk or the Voyetra sequencer about the owners manauls.  Do
    the owners manual explain features from a novice level or a advanced
    level of understanding�  Documentation from a novices point of view  
    is what I'm looking for.  
    
    From what I've seen so far from both the demos the features are
    exactly what I'm looking for.  I just hate sink a lot of money into 
    software and the documentation is at a level at which I can't understand. 
    For example ( Note editing ) I know that this feature is used to
    delete,enter,cut and paste notes into a track that was recorded.
    This is great for when you're recording a track and hit a bad note.
    Rather than redo the track from scratch just go into note editing
    and patch up the track.  Where I lost is how do you go about doing
    that in Voyetra's program.  If I had the owners manual would the
    explaination of how to use this feature be above my head.  
    
    I had to go through this with the owners manaul with my synthesizer.
    I am slowly begining to understand what going on with it.  Having
    an electronic background helps out a whole lot.  
    
    The cakewalk demo has some brief help the generally explained features.
    Does it's owners manaul go into more detail�
    
      
    Calvin F.

	I don't know about Voyetra, but the Cakewalk V3.0 manual is a
	real improvement over the v2.x document.  While the Cakewalk
	manual does describe most program operations pretty well, it
	doesn't spend a whole lot of time in elaborate scenarios
	demonstrating how things go together. It seems to assume that the
	user knows why he wants to do something. 

	I think that, rather than buy a program based on a search for
	entry-level documentation, you should buy the program you
	perceive to have the most capability, and use it.  Buy some other
	books on sequencing and MIDI, and ask the noters here when you
	can't figure things out. 






	Of course, this all assumes that you're pursuing this on a hobby
	basis due to personal interest. If you're under time pressure to
	learn a sequencer because you're backing backing the Billy Idol
	Wheelchair tour, I can recommend a decent, expensive tutor in
	L.A. *8'). 

    I'm using Voyetra Sp2. The documentation is excellent. I read some of
    it in a novel like fashion. The rest I scanned and am using as a
    reference. I think it's great compared to other documentation I'm used
    to. The editing you mentioned is well documented.
    
    Give me a call if you want to discuss further. I am a novice and need
    all the help I can get. I think Voyetra documentation is very good for
    someone of my limited skills. Dtn 422-7852.
    
    Gil
    
    

->                     <<< Note 2284.12 by CSOA1::BREZLER >>>
->               -< I recommend Voyetra..excellent documentation >-


I second that. I have SP3. Good documentation. Easy to understand. 


Mike D    
    

    Thanks for your opions on the Documention for both Cakewalk and
    Voyetra.  I will give Voyetra a try.  Glad to here that the DOCs
    for both sequencers are reasonable in explaination of program
    features.  I agree that picking up a couple of books about MIDI
    and sequencing will explain all the details.  I used the practice
    of having multiple sources of books to get through my electronics
    courses.  I have the book Music Through MIDI.  Are there any good
    books on the basics of sequencing.  I know just the basics on how
    to use a sequencing.  Having a book on the subject of sequencing
    for me would make sequencing more useful.
    
    C�lvin F.

             <<< Note 2284.0 by VMSDEV::NORCOTT "Wakarimasu ka?" >>>
                 -< Need info on good IBM sequencer software >-

    Sound on sound, record track while others play back (neither)

>>>	Wrong.  Voyetra Sp3 does this.
    
    Would prefer to score songs with music notation (neither)
    Able to print sheet music, Postscript would be nice (neither)

>>>	Right, but you can write Sp3 files out in a format that can be
>>>	read by several scoring packages, including Mr. T's Copyist.
    
    Does anybody know of/have IBM software with some or all of these 
    features?
    
    Bill Norcott
    

              <<< Note 2284.6 by STAR::NORCOTT "Wakarimasu ka?" >>>
                              -< More questions >-

Well for example on Voyetra DEMO300 if I try to change the channel # of a 
track or the voice # or hit mute while I'm playing back, It says "can't
do that while sequencer is running".

>>> Right, you have to stop the sequencer, mute the track, and re-start.
>>> You can pick up in the same measure as the one you stopped in.

Say I have three tracks and I want to play them back while I am recording
track #4.  How do I do it?  Or else, I want to record from the PC keyboard
and be able to hit a key and advance to the next beat.  Then, I should be
able to hear what all the other channels are playing on that beat.  Can I
do this?

>>> This can be done easily with the record feature.  In fact, that's the
>>> way it works.  You just have to be careful that tracks 1, 2, and 3 do
>>> not send MIDI data on the same channel as you're recording.

Sorry about all the questions, normally it is a case of RTFM but with the
demo programs on a BBS you don't get a detailed manual.

They did a review of Cakewalk Profesional in this months Keyboard, I
would like to know what features the pro has that the regular 3.0 
doesn't.

Bill Norcott

                     <<< Note 2284.10 by ESKIMO::FOSSETT >>>
                          -< What do the Pros think� >-

    I too am looking for good IBM PC sequencing software.  I got a
    copy of the Demos of both Cakewalk and Voyetra demo300.  I had
    a question about the documentation.  My music theory is pretty weak.
    I had problems understanding what some of the features did in both
    of the demos.  I would like to ask those of you who have either
    Cakewalk or the Voyetra sequencer about the owners manauls.  Do
    the owners manual explain features from a novice level or a advanced
    level of understanding�  Documentation from a novices point of view  
    is what I'm looking for.

>>> I think that the Voyetra documentation is pretty good for novices if
>>> you're trying to learn how to use the PROGRAM.  But it doesn't explain
>>> much about music theory.  You have to understand music terminology and
>>> you have to know how to read music well (even if you can't play it).

>>> The documentation has a section that is a basic tutorial (just what
>>> you're looking for) plus another advanced usage section that assumes
>>> greater knowledge about MIDI and about music.  You can get good use
>>> out of the Sp3 even without the advanced features.

>>> If you want to teach yourself some music theory, a sequencer and a
>>> music theory text are a good combination.  Use the sequencer to input
>>> and play musical examples from your text so you can HEAR what they're
>>> talking about.

>>> You can probably make use of the features of Sp3 (or any sequencer)
>>> proportional to your musical knowledge.  If you don't know what the
>>> musical terms mean, you probably won't be able to use the associated
>>> features.

    From what I've seen so far from both the demos the features are
    exactly what I'm looking for.  I just hate sink a lot of money into 
    software and the documentation is at a level at which I can't understand. 
    For example ( Note editing ) I know that this feature is used to
    delete,enter,cut and paste notes into a track that was recorded.
    This is great for when you're recording a track and hit a bad note.
    Rather than redo the track from scratch just go into note editing
    and patch up the track.  Where I lost is how do you go about doing
    that in Voyetra's program.  If I had the owners manual would the
    explaination of how to use this feature be above my head.  

>>> Probably not.  Even so, check and see if the vendor is willing to 
>>> sit down with you for a 1/2 hour or so and show you how to do some
>>> basic stuff.  If you're computer literate, it should come easy.

    Calvin F.

    
    Anybody heard of SCORE for the PC? 'm looking for information on
    it - I think it was written at Stanford. Supposed to be great.
    
    /pjh
    

    check out old keyboard mags
    
    it was talked about in one issue about 1 1-1/2 years ago
    
    Chad
    
    PS: I believe Passport sells it
    

    I called PCMag today, and they promise another review of all the
    I*M-based sequencers within three months.
    
    - Hoyt