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Conference napalm::commusic_v1

Title:* * Computer Music, MIDI, and Related Topics * *
Notice:Conference has been write-locked. Use new version.
Moderator:DYPSS1::SCHAFER
Created:Thu Feb 20 1986
Last Modified:Mon Aug 29 1994
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:2852
Total number of notes:33157

2133.0. "Key transpose question" by HPSCAD::RFACCENDA () Fri Oct 06 1989 10:43

    I'm a novice to MIDI, my only experience being some time on a borrowed
    CZ1 and an outboard sound module (yamaha tp20??). I'm currently
    adddicted to playing in `C', whereas very few others share this
    habit. While I'm trying to rid myself of this foul habit I still
    expect to be very dependent on key transposition.
    
    What I need to know is whether or not key transpose is something
    that is universally understood (more or less) by different midi
    keyboards and sound modules. The current setup I have does not
    work, and could not work, because the outboard module only allows octave
    transpositions. What I don't know is whether the CZ1 (and other
    keyboards I might buy) transmits midi info re key transposition
    and whether an outboard module that does do key transpositions 
    would react to it. 
    
    Thanks in advance,
    Ron
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2133.1KOBAL::DICKSONFri Oct 06 1989 11:245
    If the keyboard transposes, then the SGU's won't have to.  A lot of
    keyboards can transpose, even cheap ones.
    
    Nothing wrong with playing in one key.  It was good enough for Irving
    Berlin, who only played in F#.
2133.2Still need clarificationHPSCAD::RFACCENDAFri Oct 06 1989 12:4521
    re .1, I'm afraid I don't understand your reply - maybe I was unclear
    in my original question. If I understand your reply, you're saying
    that the module should see a D when I play a C with the key transposed
    up a full tone. It doesn't, it plays the C and the CZ1 plays a D.
    
    I'm concerned that if I buy this CZ1 and need to do transposing, I will
    be forced to live with its limited sounds or have to manually do a key 
    transpose on any outboard sound module that I control using the CZ1,
    OR, learn how to play in another 5 or so keys (ARRRGGHHHHH!). 
    
    So, is this situation a consequence of the module's inability to
    do key transposing while the CZ1 is actually sending out key transposing
    commands? Or, do outboard modules typically not understand key
    transposition midi codes and require that they be programmed manually?
    
    BTW, I need a translation for `SGU'. Also, thanks for the tip on Irving
    Berlin - I'll definitely use it if anyone gives me any grief about
    my singlemindedness.
    
    Ron
                                   
2133.3KOBAL::DICKSONFri Oct 06 1989 12:578
    SGU means sound generating unit.
    
    There are no MIDI codes for transposition.  When you set a keyboard to
    transpose, what it *should* do is send the MIDI code for "D" when you
    press the "C" (for example).  The SGU receiving this command just plays
    the "D", unaware that you pressed a C.
    
    The two MIDI controllers I have both work this way.
2133.4Transposition Among Consenting SGUsDRUMS::FEHSKENSFri Oct 06 1989 13:1549
    SGU - sound generating unit (for the nth time).
    
    Are there actually MIDI "key transposing commands" or "key transposition
    codes"?  I don't recall seeing any, or seeing any reference to such
    as interpreted MIDI messsages for any of the synths I own.
    
    A typical MIDI keyboard synth has two parts - a keyboard (a MIDI controller)
    and a set of SGUs.  You can do transposition in either part.  I.e.,
    the keyboard can send different note numbers than those nominally
    assigned to the keys (as in piano keys) played, and the SGU can
    sound pitches different from those nominally assigned to the received
    note numbers.  The degree of flexibility available in a given unit
    depends on the designers' whims.  There are no standards that I'm
    aware of.
    
    As such, when you locally set up a transposition, there are no MIDI
    messages that go out telling other units to transpose.  It's a strictly
    local phenomenon, done entriely within the synth.
    
    On an integrated unit like the CZ-1, what an outboard unit does
    will depend on how the CZ does transposition.  If the transposition
    (say up one step, from C to D) is done in the CZ's SGUs, then the
    keyboard will still send a C when you play a C, and an outboard unit
    that has not been "manually" transposed will play a C.  (Sounds like
    that's the case.)  Note that an incoming C to the CZ will result in
    the CZ sounding a D.
    
    If the CZ transposes at the keyboard, then playing a C will send
    a D, and outboard units (with no local transposition in effect) will
    sound a D.  The CZ will also sound a D, as that's what it's seeing
    from the keyboard.  Note, however, that if some other controller
    sends the CZ a C, it will sound a C, as the CZ's SGUs are not
    transposing.
    
    The bottom line is if you want to do "global" transposition from
    a keyboard, you need a synth that transposes at its *keyboard*,
    not at its internal SGUs.  My impression is that most integrated
    keyboards do not work this way.  I assume the designers' reasoning
    is that users would be surprised by the lack of transposition when
    the synth is driven from a sequencer. 
    
    A master keyboard controller (with no onboard SGUs) will more likely
    provide keyboard transposition.
    
    Does this help?
    
    len.
    
    
2133.5Now I understand, thanksHPSCAD::RFACCENDAMon Oct 09 1989 10:286
    Thanks to both of you - this clarifies the issue; looks like I'll
    have to see what products are out there, how they work, and make
    sure I don't paint myself into a corner.
    
    Ron