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Conference napalm::commusic_v1

Title:* * Computer Music, MIDI, and Related Topics * *
Notice:Conference has been write-locked. Use new version.
Moderator:DYPSS1::SCHAFER
Created:Thu Feb 20 1986
Last Modified:Mon Aug 29 1994
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:2852
Total number of notes:33157

2017.0. "SEQUENCER vs SINGER's/OTHER PLAYERS' TEMPO" by SOS6::RAMA () Thu Jun 08 1989 04:38

Hi folks ,

very new to the world of computer music , I'm the proud owner of a v50 for
just one week and really enjoy it...

I've used that beautiful thing named sequencer to "record" eight track of
different instruments , then play them together and WOW....great .

Here is my question :
                 
I use to play with other guys/singers . It appears to me that once the song
is on the sequencer , that's it : if the singer happens to "miss" the tempo
there is no way to get the sequencer back into the singer's tempo ( of course
the singer can get back into the tempo ... but assume this is not a "good"
singer )

any suggestion about this would be welcome .

Francis
T.RTitleUserPersonal
Name
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2017.1Look no Rhythm !WOTVAX::KENTThu Jun 08 1989 04:4314
    
    
    Yep !
    
    Pray that it never happens !   
    
    You can control some of the risk by rehearsing A LOT !.
    
    I have tried human clocks etc...
    
    They are O.K. but I don't think responsive enough to follow a Frank
    Sinatra impression.
    
    					Paul.
2017.2WEFXEM::COTEPharoahs: On the mummy track...Thu Jun 08 1989 07:5212
    Yep, once you give control to the sequencer, that's it.
    
    There are a couple machines from Kahler, Garfield, etc., that do a
    fair job of following a drummer or other human, but they aren't
    perfect. 
    
    Actually, training a singer to sing at a steady tempo isn't really
    a bad idea. I've heard many people blame sloppy chops on the
    "inhumanly" steady tempo of MIDI. Follwing a metronome is a basic
    musical skill, one that should be cultivated.
    
    Edd
2017.3Just doin' what it was told...CSC32::MOLLERNightmare on Sesame StreetThu Jun 08 1989 13:5428
	I use a sequencer playing all sorts of stuff, or just a drum
	machine in my Duo all of the time. You learn very quickly that
	you have to follow the machine. At times, when you want to stop
	& do something that will occur in a random time fashion, such as
	a break, you can hit a stop/continue button (available on some
	sequencers), and this will halt the sequencer in it's tracks, until
	you re-start it again (re-starting from where you left off).

	You have to plan for this sort of thing however, otherwise you
	will get quite lost & the sequencer will happily go on without
	you. If you are used to playing with musicians that follow you,
	you'll need to work on following the machine.

	Also, you need to consider building cues into sequences that assist
	you in positioning yourself within a song. An example would be
	a short drum roll as you lead into a chorus. If you ever get lost
	(and once you build up a large amount of sequences, the odds are
	in favor of you occasionally getting lost), this que will assist
	greatly in a graceful recovery.

	There are a million possiblities for how you might want to 
	organize your sequences. These all depend on what your end goals
	are, but I'd reccommend that you spend some time considering
	how you plan to be using your gear & thinking about the best way
	to implement it.

							Jens

2017.4Its THAT old joke again, hit next unsee to avoidULTRA::BURGESSThu Jun 08 1989 14:116
re .2	
	I tried it,  Forget it !


	The gnomes are in Zurich and the Metro is is Paris

2017.5A couple of tricksVOLKS::RYENRick Ryen 285-6248Thu Jun 08 1989 14:2073
A couple of ideas that I have tried...

	Sound Queues within the sequence.

		I program sounds into the sequence that "stand out" at
		points in the song that relate to specific
		vocal passages. Mostly these are changes to 
		percussion (perhaps a different cymbal pattern, bell etc).
		A clearly audible change in the bassline may also
		be a good indicator to the singer when it is
		time to start a vocal passage. This is equally useful
		to instrumentalists.

		What is important is to have some discernable change
		that will indicate to the live performer that his
		part is comming up. Usually a measure or two ahead
		of the required part is all that it takes. It should 
		blend in with the feel of the song, but still be
		obvious to the musician. 

		This probably works the best of all the methods that
		I've experimented with. I have noticed that this is
		a standard feature of songs many great artists, such as the 
		Beatles. Not only can the singer/ musician anticipate when
		his vocal part is comming, but the listener can also,
		which adds excitement to the song.

some others... (less effective)

	Remote footswith.

		When songs start of with a vocal part,
		with the music following, it's
		sometimes useful to use a remote footswitch
		to start the sequencer. I do this on
		a few songs. It is somewhat error prone,
		and does require lots of practice start off with the
		correct tempo and in the proper key.

	Background vocal line.

		On a couple of songs, that were particularly
		monotonous ( few changes in chords, and sparse instrumental
		melody line), I've programmed the vocal line, and 
		plays very softly in the background of the sequence.
		This doesn't help you start a passage on time, 
		but it is possible to reorient youself within the song 
		when you hear the vocal line playing and you are not singing.
		This is also not foolproof, and only works well on
		some types of songs.

		For multi-track sequencers, you can even have a louder
		vocal line to follow when practicing, then turn it off
		for a performance. This can be especially useful to
		practice vocal harmonies, that are each on a seperately
		controllable track. Very effective for practicing.

	Watch the Sequencers measure counter.

		My sequencer has a numeric display that changes
		as each measure of the song is played. As I am learning 
		a new song, I watch the display for the important measures
		where changes occur in the song (eg; Key changes, chorus)
		After some pratice, I learn to do it by feel, and don't
		have to watch the display any more.
	
		Other visual queues are possible, depending upon your
		equipment. There are midi light-controllers. But the best
		queues are in the music itself.

experiment and have fun..

Rick