Conference napalm::commusic_v1

    The JX-10 is the biggie...
    
    Edd

RE < Note 1920.0 by KALLON::EIRIKUR "Hallgr�msson, CDA Product Manager" >

	Congratulations on joining the proud (though small) group of MKS-7 
owners!  I use mine as the heart of my MIDI system.  Like you, I revell in
the great analog sounds the MKS/Juno drips out.

	The sounds of the MKS-7 are, indeed, a kind of a modified Juno 106.
I say modified because the Juno was not touch sensitive, but the MKS-7 is.
Later Junos came out with touch sensitivity, but they also were altered quite
a bit in other aspects of their architecture.  Anyway, here's the history of
the Roland single oscillator� line...

	1.	Juno 6	-	Roland's first cost reduced analog synth.  
	Marketed to compete with Korg's record-breaking POLY-SIX.  61 non-touch-
	sensitive keys, front panel had all controls (sliders and switches).  
	No memory for patches.  what it was set at was what you got.  Non-MIDI.

	2.	Juno 60	-	Same as the Juno 6, but had memory.  Oh, and 
	both of these had an appegiator.  Still non-MIDI

	3.	Juno 106 -	First good MIDI synth from Roland (the JX3P 
	actually was the first Roland MIDI synth, but its implementation was
	poor).  61 keys again, non-touch-sensitive, and you lose the arpegiator.

	4.	Alpha Juno 1 -	After what appeared to be the death of the Juno
	line, the alpha Junos appeared.  The Juno 1 has 49 non-touch-sensitive 
	keys, but when recieving MIDI from a touch sensitive keyboard, the SGU
	responds to velocity.  All panel sliders have disappeared, replaced by
	digital parameter access and the Roland 'alpha-wheel' (although a 
	separate programmer [PG300] is available).  The oscillator has enhanced
	VLSI circuitry that offers more variety of waveforms.  There is also a 
	more flexible envelope generator.

	5.	Alpha Juno 2 -	Basically the same as the AlphaJuno 1, but has
	61 touch-sensitive keys and aftertouch.  It also has a cartridge port 
	for storing patches.

	6.	In the rack-mount line, along with the MKS-7, you'll find the
	MKS-50, which is built with all the added options that are founf in the
	AlphaJuno line.

	That is the entire Juno lineup as I remember them.  Edd mentioned the 
JX-10 which is part of another line, the JX series (obviously).  They sport
two programmable oscillators per voice and have various other options.  There
were also the Jupiter series (Jupiter 4, Jupiter 6, Jupiter 8 and Super 
Jupiter).  there were the higher-end synths that came about slightly before the
advent of MIDI.

	Dan

� Although there is only a single programmable oscillator, there is available a
square-wave sub oscillator.  This one is fixed at an octave below the main
oscillator and serves to fatten up the sound.

    It seems to me that the Jupiters are no longer available (except used
    market).  You can pick up the JX10 or the rackmount (MKS70?) for around
    $1500 and $1100, respectively.  I've heard tell of prices as low as
    $800 on the rackmount, but have never seen them myself. 

    BTW - the JX10 has a 76 (?) key controller built in.

-b

In Daddy's recent sale, the MKS-70 (new) at Daddy's Boston was in the
flyer at $479.  They probably only had one.

Chad

    
     
          I played a (used)MKS50 tonight at Rogue Music and am thinking
        about picking it up. Is $350 a good deal?. Does it have a built
        in drum channel like the MKS-7?. And, most importantly, how does
        it's sound stack up next to a Juno 106 (which I have never heard
        but might be able to get my hands on)?.
       
    
     			
    						rich

    
    
    
          BTW, how much damage did the MKS-7 do to your wallet?
    				
    					rich

    The MKS-7 cost me $215.  LaSalle (Boston) had one for $200, demo--no
    box no manual.  When I went down the street still looking for an SGU,
    I found another MKS-7 at Daddy's for $299, and they were willing to
    come down on it and throw in a 3-month warranty.  This one was used,
    but had the manual and the sound chart card.
    
    The MKS-7 is the only MKS-?? with the drum sounds.  The one annoying
    glitch with it is that it doesn't have portamento (or it is
    undocumented and not wired up to the standard MIDI signal).  If you
    have other SGU's, the other MKS units would probably be a better buy;
    although they are mono-timbral they have user patch locations, etc.
    You can apparently edit the MKS-7 patches, but it doesn't have any
    memory across power-cycles.
    
    	Eirikur
    

       
re .5
>I played a (used)MKS50 tonight at Rogue Music and am thinking
>about picking it up. Is $350 a good deal?. 

	I think $350 is a good deal for an MKS50.  


>Does it have a built in drum channel like the MKS-7?
	
	No, it does not have any built in drum samples.	
Sounds like you need a ROLAND D110.	


>And, most importantly, how does it's sound stack up next to a
>Juno 106 (which I have never heard but might be able to get my hands on)?.
	
	I thinks it has a good analog sound, great for sweeps, synth bass,
synth leads.  From what I remember, I think the Juno 106 sounds a bit
warmer. 


	The MKS50 has some advantes over the alpha Juno. Although the tone 
architecture is the same, the performance memory is tied to the patch.  It
looks something like this.

PATCH (BANKS A/B, 64 PROGRAMMABLE PATCHES/BANK)
=====================================
|  TONE                             |
|  PERFORMANCE MEMORY               |
|     Chord memory #                |
|     Transposition                 |
|     Range of patch                |
|     Patch volume                  |
|     Mono Bend range               |
=====================================
             |
             |
             |
             |
	    \|/
	     
TONE (BANKS A/B, 64 PROGRAMMABLE TONES/BANK)
============================================
|  TONE PARAMETERS                         |
|     dco                                  |
|       .                                  | 
|       .                                  |
============================================


	Also, there are 16 chord memorys (the alpha juno only has 1).


	LONG LIVE PULSE WIDTH MODULATION!!!!!
	
						Mark M.

	Don't spend $350 for a used MKS-50 until you've checked to see if 
LaSalle's still has them new for $357!

	Dan

    
    	I played a friend's Juno 106 last night and I feel the MKS50
    pales in comparison. Are these still in production or should I just
    start searching the used shops?.
    p.s. To the person who said I need a D-110...I have a Tx81Z already
    and don't need another noise box!
    
    					rich
     

    Juno's are long out of production.  If you see an MKS-7, give it a
    listen.  You can set it into a 6-voice mode which gives you the Juno
    106 functionality plus velocity sensing.  (And you get the TR707 drum
    sounds for free!)  The MKS-7 is probably usually cheap used--the front
    panel makes it look like some kind of brain-damaged "band in a box"
    device.  It is actually a joy to work with.  I particularly like the
    activity lights for each of the 4 MIDI channels, and how pressing the
    channel button plays the current patch on that channel at middle C or
    something like that.  
    
    	Eirikur
    
    

    Juno 106.. 6 voice monotimbral, no velocity response either with
    its keys or played as an SGU.
    
    Nice analog sounds tho

    I was by LaSalles on Saturday and the demo MKS-7 for $200 was
    still there. I'm really tempted. Can someone answer a couple of
    specific questions?

    o Is there really a full blown 707 drum machine in this box? 
    Does it include the sequencer section or just the drum sounds?

    o Looks like the box is multi-timbral. Sliders on the front (for
    volume?) are marked - Rhythm, Bass, Chord, and Lead, so I assume
    you can assign sounds to 4 different MIDI channels. Yes? How about
    relative volumes on the drum sounds.

    o What kind of outputs? Stereo? Separate outs for the drum machine?

    o One of the previous notes mentioned that the MKS-7 doesn't
    retain patch changes on power down (ugh!). I assume this also 
    applies to any MIDI setups, drum volumes, etc. Any provisions for
    sysex dumps, so you could at least save/load with a computer? Can
    you edit the patches from the front panel?

    Thanks,

    Rob

    Some MKS-7 answers:
    
    1) Drum sounds only, not tunable, amount of velocity response can be
    altered.  There are only 11 (I think, maybe +/- 1 or 2) drum sounds,
    a basic drum kit only, no Latin stuff, no exotic stuff.  I find this
    to be one of the major limitations, personally.
    
    2) It is truly multi-timbral, the 4 sections map to 4 MIDI channels,
    and you can set the channel numbers.  The Melody channel is 2-voice,
    the Chord channel is 4-voice, and Bass is monophonic. From the front
    panel (control-shift-meta-cokebottle) or from MIDI, you can go into
    "Whole Mode" which puts the 2-voice and 4-voice sections together on
    one channel making a 6-voice synth.  You still get bass and drums on
    their own channels in that mode.  The user interface is actually easy
    if not obvious.  You press the MIDI button, then press Melody while
    holding down the Chord button.  
    
    3) There are 4 seperate outputs, and a hardwired stereo mix output. 
    The sliders control only the mix output (you are using a mixer if you
    use the separate outs).  Volume on the drums sounds responds to
    velocity--that's the only relative volume control.
    
    4) No patch memory.  The machine does respond to sysex, you can edit
    patch parameters or replace presets with your own patches.  Interesting
    bit of info: a patch can be represented in 36 bytes.  I've played with
    the sysex stuff,  I built a "patch-tweaker" using MIDI-Control
    on the Macintosh.  I haven't tried loading patches.  I wonder if there
    is enough RAM to hold very many?
    
    If you buy this thing, I will photocopy the manual and patch chart.  I
    like mine so much that I have tried to think of what I would do
    with two of them, but I can't see that as being very useful--the second
    one would wind up being used as just an analog synth.  If I want
    another analog synth, I will probably pick up a K3m.
    
    While it sounds very good, you should be aware that the synthesizer
    voices are very simple (obsolete, actually).  There is only one VCO,
    one LFO, one envelope generator, and one VCF per voice.
    
    
    	Eirikur
    
    
    
    
    

RE < Note 1920.14 by KALLON::EIRIKUR "Hallgr�msson, CDA Product Manager" >

	I have though the same thing - about getting a second MKS-7.  It has 
been such a useful part of my setup.  But you're right, it is not the sort of
thing that makes itself useful in plurality.  I have adapted my setup to suit
the MKS-7's defaults - i.e. I program drums on ch. 10, bass on ch. 2 - so that
I don't have to manually change them every time I power up.  If I had two, I'd
have to add re-setting defaults to one of them every time I set up shop.

	It's really a nice instrument if you can live with its limitations.  It
has become the heart of my setup.  And at $200, you can't go wrong.

	Dan
    

    I have had a Juno-106 for many many years now, and it's been obsoleted
    by the Oberheim Matrix-1000.  Anything the Juno can do, the Matrix
    can do better, and there are many things the Matrix can do that
    the Juno can't.  The main differences are the Matrix's support of
    velocity and aftertouch, but the Matrix also has more LFOs.  Now
    that I've got a Matrix-1000, I find myself seriously considering
    selling the Juno, except for my strong emotional attachment to it
    (it wasn't my *first* synth, but we've been through a lot together,
    and we've been together longer than me and any other synth...).
    
    len (whose studio is predominantly analog).
                                   

RE < Note 1920.16 by DRUMS::FEHSKENS >

	Well, Len, I never thought I'd hear you say it...

    Well, technology marches on, even for us old analog farts...
    
    But my SuperJupiter?  Never.
    
    len.
    

RE < Note 1920.18 by DRUMS::FEHSKENS >

	That's what you once said about your JUNO 106, if memory serves.

	Dan

    Well, if you can find it, more power to us both, but the Juno 106
    and the Super Jupiter are in entirely different classes.  I know
    I've said several times I will never part with with my Super Jupiter,
    but I don't think I've ever said that of the Juno.
    
    len.
    

RE < Note 1920.20 by DRUMS::FEHSKENS >

	Always up to a challenge, I began the search.  Unfortunately, I believe
the place I recall your remark was in a note I started for the purpose of 
selling my Juno 106 (back in mid-87).  You had given an unsolicited 
recommendation on the Juno and remarked that you'd keep yours forever.  That 
note was deleted by Brad when he began his moderatorship of the conference.  So,
verification will not be possible (or, if possible, not worth the effort).

	So, what was this note about?

	Dan

    Ah well, such is the passage of time.  Maybe someday the Jupiter
    won't seem so wonderful (after all, it's only 4/8 voices in this modern
    world of 16 voice polyphony - no 13th chords in fat Jupiter voices
    for me, I guess).
    
    I think this note was about the *other* Junos.
    
    len.
    

    I have the old conference sitting on a disk over here (sucking up
    50,000 blocks).  I just searched every topic that ever was, and there
    is NO posting by Len that says anything about wanting to keep his Juno
    forever. 

    So nyahhh....

&*}

RE < Note 1920.23 by DYO780::SCHAFER "Brad - back in Ohio." >

	O.K., now try putting the disk into a drive...    &^)

	Dan

P.S.  Did you find the for sale note I was referring to?

    
    Well, I couldn't resist for $200, went down to LaSalles and picked up
    the demo MKS-7 this weekend. Now, I'll have to try and write a little
    sysex-programmer for my Commodore. Which brings me to a question ...
    
    I thought I noticed a stack of PG-300s for $99 next to where the MKS-7
    was (not sure about the price, I wasn't really paying much attention at
    the time). Can these things be used to program the MKS-7, or were they
    strictly for the Alpha-Juno series? How do they connect, thru MIDI?
    
    Rob
    
    

RE < Note 1920.25 by NIMBUS::DAVIS >

	Congrats.  I have a little sysex thing I wrote for the MKS7 - its 
nothing special, but you can take a copy of it if you want.

	The PG300 will NOT work for the older Juno stuff.  The alpha junos
had a number of extra waveforms and a different envelope generator.  And the
programmer had a special input jack.

	Dan