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Conference napalm::commusic_v1

Title:	* * Computer Music, MIDI, and Related Topics * *
Notice:	Conference has been write-locked. Use new version.
Moderator:	DYPSS1::SCHAFER

Created:	Thu Feb 20 1986
Last Modified:	Mon Aug 29 1994
Last Successful Update:	Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:	2852
Total number of notes:	33157

1886.0. "Emu Systems' Proteus Rackmount Sample Player" by DYO780::SCHAFER (Brad - back in Ohio.) Thu Feb 02 1989 13:50

    Here's some information on the new Proteus SGU from E-mu Systems. 

    The Proteus is a one space rack-mountable digital SGU that sports 32
    note polyphony, 16 voice multi-timbrality and dynamic voice allocation. 

    The machine has 6 polyphonic outputs for individually processing sounds
    (also configurable as 3 stereo submixes with fully programmable
    panning), one mono mix output, two stereo FX returns (!), and MIDI
    IN/OUT/THRU.  It also supports user definable alternate tunings. 

    Front panel display is 32 character backlit (yay!) LCD. 

    List price is $995.  I doubt that there will be any significant
    discounts for at least a year or more.  Read on to see why. 

SAMPLE DATA
-----------

    Proteus contains 4 Mbytes of 16 bit ROM-based samples (sample rate:
    39kHz) and digital waveforms.  ROM memory will be expandable to 8
    Mbytes later this year as additional samples are burned into ROM. There
    are currently no plans to provide additional ROMs (beyond the 8 Mbytes
    already in the works) for the machine, although E-mu has a history of
    doing this.  All samples are stereo multi-samples from the E-mu III
    library.  Waveforms are single-cycle representations of the standard
    synthesized waves (square, saw, sine, etc). 

    S/N ratio and dynamic range are both in excess of 90dB. 

PROGRAMMING    
-----------

    Proteus has 192 presets, 128 of which are factory presets (leaving 64
    user program locations).  Opcode is developing an editor/librarian
    package for both Apple Macintosh and Atari ST computers. 

    The machine is not a "sample player" in the truest sense of the word
    (a'la Oberheim's DPX).  Although it does use ROM based samples from the
    E-III library (87 distinct samples/waves), it cannot play disks or
    accept MIDI sample dumps. It is designed to compete with (blow out?)
    other ROM-based sample/waveform synths, such as the Roland D-50 and
    U-110, Korm M1, and Ensoniq SQ-80, just to name a few. 

    Proteus allows you to take apart sounds (presets) and reassemble them
    into new sounds, combining portions of sounds/samples/waves with other
    sounds/samples/waves.  Each voice (of which there are 32) can be built
    from 1 or 2 samples, each having its own envelope and LFO.  The entire
    structure may then be modulated via an auxiliary LFO and envelope. 

    A PRESET (what most people call a PATCH) can consist of 1 to 8 voice
    structures (my term, not theirs) stacked on each other.  It appears
    that this scheme allows much more complex timbres than, for example,
    the M1, which is limited to 1 wave per oscillator.  The Proteus allows
    you to combine two waveforms before the oscillator stage. 

    LFO waveshapes are selectable.  The unit has built-in chorus and delay
    (probably Emax equivalents, but I'm just guessing).  The samples &
    waveforms can even be reversed (in true E-mu fashion).  Basically there
    appears to be just as much control over the playback of the sample as
    the Ensoniq (E)SQ series provides over its waveforms - which is why I
    said it's not just a "sample player".  It's a synthesizer that uses 16
    bit samples as waveforms. 

MIDIPatch (tm)
--------------

    As if all the former control isn't enough, E-mu has developed a
    proprietary modulation and control structure called MidiPatch that
    "acts like a digital patch bay, giving you direct access to over 40 of
    a sound's parameters, either from a keyboard or other MIDI controllers,
    or from Proteus' internal LFOs and envelopes."  It sounds like they've
    taken a line from the Oberheim Matrix series. 

    Here's the raw data on MidiPatch: 

    KEYBOARD AND VELOCITY MODULATION CONTROL (6 per preset)

 	     Sources:	1) Key number  2) Key velocity

 	Destinations:	1) Off		12) Pri. Decay	23) Aux Env Attack
 			2) Pitch	13) Sec. Decay	24) Aux Env Decay 
 			3) Pri. Pitch	14) Release	25) Aux Env Release
 			4) Sec. Pitch	15) Pri Release	26) Sample Start
 			5) Volume	16) Sec Release	27) Pri Sample Start
 			6) Pri. Volume	17) X-fade	28) Sec Sample Start
 			7) Sec. Volume	18) LFO 1 Amt	29) Pan
 			8) Attack	19) LFO 1 Rate	30) Pri Pan
 			9) Pri. Attack	20) LFO 2 Amt	31) Sec Pan
 		       10) Sec. Attack	21) LFO 2 Rate	32) Tone
 		       11) Decay	22) Aux Env Amt

    REALTIME MODULATION CONTROL (8 per preset)
 			
 	     Sources:	1) Pitch Wheel	 6) Mono Pressure
			2) MIDI Cont A	 7) Poly Pressure
			3) MIDI Cont B	 8) LFO 1
			4) MIDI Cont C	 9) LFO 2
			5) MIDI Cont D	10) Aux Envelope

 	Destinations:	1) Off		12) Pri. Decay	23) Aux Env Attack
 			2) Pitch	13) Sec. Decay	24) Aux Env Decay 
 			3) Pri. Pitch	14) Release	25) Aux Env Release
 			4) Sec. Pitch	15) Pri Release
 			5) Volume	16) Sec Release
 			6) Pri. Volume	17) X-fade
 			7) Sec. Volume	18) LFO 1 Amt
 			8) Attack	19) LFO 1 Rate
 			9) Pri. Attack	20) LFO 2 Amt
 		       10) Sec. Attack	21) LFO 2 Rate
 		       11) Decay	22) Aux Env Amt

    FOOTSWITCH CONTROL (3 per preset)

 	     Sources:	Footswitches 1-3

 	Destinations:	1) Sustain	 6) Sec Alt Env
			2) Pri Sustain 	 7) Alt Env Release
			3) Sec Sustain	 8) Pri Alt Env Release
			4) Alt Envelope	 9) Sec Alt Env Release
			5) Pri Alt Env	10) Pri & Sec X-switch

AVAILABILITY
------------

    According to E-mu, initial shipment will occur in April (assuming that
    the ROM burners don't slip their schedule).  This initial shipment will
    be *very* small (600-800 units nationwide).  Production shipments will
    begin sometime in September, with additional 4 Mbyte ROM kits coming
    out before year's end.  Prices on the ROM updates are unknown at this
    point. 

    Bottom line - if you want one badly enough, be prepared to put down a
    deposit on one with a reputable dealer.  Needless to say, my order's
    in. 
    
-b

T.R	Title	User	Personal Name	Date	Lines
1886.1		SALSA::MOELLER	Audio/Video/MIDIophile	`Thu Feb 02 1989 15:28`	10
	Sounds nice, esp. the 6 separate outputs-> 3 stereo pairs. You'll probably be able to software set pan positions. Kurzweil-1000 killer. A bit of advice.. I went thru this with the Emax pre-availability.. It's better to be first in line at a small dealer than 12th in line at a major.. due to the way E-Mu allocates units.. your small dealer will prolly get 1 or 2 in the first ship, the big dealer 4-10 units. If you're #11, you're SOL for a while. karl
1886.2	What will I hear?	MUSKIE::ALLEN		`Thu Feb 02 1989 15:28`	8
	Yeah, but what are the sounds/patches/timbres, you know...what are the samples you can choose from? Curious, Bill ps And, thanks for the update 8-).
1886.3	Sounds like a PX1000...	SYNTH::SEIGEL	SYNTH when?	`Thu Feb 02 1989 15:32`	12
	Would I be correct in making a comparison to the Kurzweil PX1000? Sounds like the same basic concept, with more voices, more features, more everything. At < half the price. Now where am I gonna get $1000 from by April? Hmmmm... I've already got the space in my rack.... Perhaps it'd be better to wait for volume shipping in the fall... thanks for the info, Brad! andy
1886.4	Replies.	DYO780::SCHAFER	Brad - back in Ohio.	`Thu Feb 02 1989 15:42`	13
	Thanks for the pointer, K. Bill, there are 87 resident samples/waves. They range from traditional instruments (piano, organ, strings, horns, guitar, bass) to a full set of percussion (many drums, latin percussion, cymbals) to digital waveforms (sine, saw, pulse, square, triangle). The spec sheet does not give an exhaustive list, and I didn't want to make the tech support dude at E-mu read 'em all off. Andy, if I can get rid of my ESQ-Ms for a decent rate, I'll be buying two ... there is an overflow mode. -b
1886.5	midi mix	HPSRAD::NORCROSS	A GED child	`Thu Feb 02 1989 16:15`	8
	> < Note 1886.1 by SALSA::MOELLER "Audio/Video/MIDIophile" > > Sounds nice, esp. the 6 separate outputs-> 3 stereo pairs. You'll > probably be able to software set pan positions. Software set? I would guess that you could pan it with continuous controllers, no? (dynamic) Or was that what you meant? /Mitch
1886.6		SALSA::MOELLER	Audio/Video/MIDIophile	`Thu Feb 02 1989 16:26`	28
	< Note 1886.5 by HPSRAD::NORCROSS "A GED child" > >> < Note 1886.1 by SALSA::MOELLER "Audio/Video/MIDIophile" > >> Sounds nice, esp. the 6 separate outputs-> 3 stereo pairs. You'll >> probably be able to software set pan positions. >Software set? I would guess that you could pan it with continuous > controllers, no? (dynamic) Or was that what you meant? re your re my re... On the Emax, pan positions can be set either via the front panel or realtime, assuming you've correctly pointed a MIDI controller number to the panning parameter.. the pan position, set by front panel, can be permanently saved as part of a 'preset', i.e. one keyboard's worth of samples. Each preset can be defined to only listen to one specific MIDI channel, up to 16 presets can be played simult. from the 16 incoming MIDI channels.. this MIDI channel - to - preset assignment is also nameable and saveable as a 'map'.. the name usually being the name of the piece of music. I assume this very flexible assignment scheme, or a version of it, might be available even in a ROM-based unit.. that's what the 64 slots might be used for.. looking forward to seeing one, even though I'm not in the market.. (yeah, sure) karl
1886.7	Karl, as usual, is correct.	DYO780::SCHAFER	Brad - back in Ohio.	`Fri Feb 03 1989 10:59`	0
1886.8	more on the Proteus	HAMER::COCCOLI	redrum	`Thu Feb 23 1989 00:11`	564
	I got the following info off usenet last night and edited a lot of the spacings and headings to make it more readable. It's a EMU press conference about our anxiously awaited Proteus As many of you may know, Proteus is a 16 bit multi-timbral sound module containing 4 Mbytes of multisampled instruments and digital waveforms stored in ROM. It offers 32 voice polyphony and is multi-timbral on all 16 MIDI channels simultaneously. It contains a palette of 125 instruments and waves which can be combined into 192 presets - 128 factory and 64 user definable. Proteus also features MidiPatch (TM), a powerful modulation and control structure that functions much like a digital patch bay to give direct realtime access to over 40 of a sound's parameters, either from any combination of MIDI controllers or from Proteus' internal LFOs and envelopes. Other Proteus features include 6 polyphonic outputs (configurable as 3 stereo submixes with programmable panning), intergral effects sends and returns, user definable tunings, and an extensive MIDI implementation. Proteus' memory is internally expandable to 8 Mbytes. The first expansion ROM set should be available this summer and will feature solo and group orchestral instruments. Throughout the development of Proteus, Opcode Systems has worked with us to develop a powerful editor-librarian package to be available for both the Macintosh and the Atari ST computers. Specs aside, our goal with Proteus is to provide superb sound quality, superb sounds, sufficient polyphony to take advantage of Proteus' multi-timbral and stacking capabilities, and an extraordinary level of realtime control, at a price under $1000. Overall, Proteus offers sampled sounds with true Emulator III sound quality and the ability to recombine these sounds with each other or with digital waveforms to create entirely new sounds with a level of fidelity available from few other synthesizers. And as good as the specs and price make it sound, when you get a chance to hear and play with one, we sincerely think you'll find it's even better than you expected. <End of ad.> Questions? Harold: How soon can I buy one and can we get a group discount if we get say ... six or so. Marco (EMU): First shipments are expected in late April. We'll be charging more for multiple units. Paul Miller: Marco -- more for mult? Marco (EMU): Just kidding. Matt Donnelly: Two questions: 1) how close are the samples to an EIII, I mean length and all, and, 2) how about an editor/librarian for the IBM? Marco (EMU): #2 first. We are currently talking to a number of developers about both IBM and Amiga editors. About the samples. Actual sound quality is absolutely equivalent to E-III. There has been some compression techniques used to fit in so many sounds, but they do not effect the overall fidelity, lack of noise or dynamic range. Jim Maki: Any more, Matt? Robert: How hard is it to assign a separate sound for each MIDI channel? Marco (EMU): It is extremely easy to assign a sound... Matt Donnelly: Yes, I was alluding to severe looping, is it obvious? Marco (EMU): Each MIDI channel has its own display page. Danny Weiss What kind of digital processing can it do? I have an emax already... fc, Q, etc. Marco (EMU): Proteus does not have dynamic filters. It does have digital filters for velocity reponse. Other options are sound reversal, chorus, and variable sample start point. Jim Maki: Got a follow up, Danny? Danny Weiss: How 'bout LFO's or VCA's? Marco (EMU): Two LFOs per channel and one VCA. Matt Donnelly: Just a quick statement for those of you that have not done business with Emu, they have the friendliest tech people that I have ever met. And I heard that the Proteus was the only thing worth seeing at the NAMM show. Marco (EMU): I'm speechless! Harold: Yo - What's available with the built-in effects sends & returns? How much control via MIDI, etc.? Marco (EMU): They are there so that external effects can be patched in without the need for an external mixer you assign to which output sends. Harold: No possbility for automation (volume, wet/dry mix, etc.)? Marco (EMU): You can control the output volume in real time. Bill Lewis: When you say the LFO's and VCA are assigned to channels, what do you mean? Are these MIDI channels? Marco (EMU): No. Each of the 32 voices has its own LFOs and VCA, which are programmed as part of the definition of the voice. Jim Maki: Follow up, Bill? Bill Lewis: Yes, when we listened to the demo at NAMM, were we listening to sounds that were generated using single voices, or were they stacked, ala two oscillators per voice? Marco (EMU): There were some of each. Our philosophy in allocating the available voices is to make the most prominant voices as spectacular as possible, and use single voices in the accompaniment parts. Making every voice as fat as possible leads to what our own Riley Smith refers to as "MIDI soup." Matt Donnelly: Will there be a rack-mount version? Marco (EMU): At the moment, there is ONLY a rack-mount version (1U). Jim Maki: Follow up Matt? Matt Donnelly: I have only seen the write up and briefly discussed it with a friend who went to the NAMM show, I figured you guys always went for the gusto first and gave us what we wanted second. Marco (EMU): I seem to be having some problem with line wrap. Please try to keep your line short. I missed some of that last question. Sorry. Matt Donnelly: I only mentioned that the printed material did not have a picture, so I thought it was a full keyboard, sorry. Robert: How many sounds does it have at one time? Is there a MIDI local off? Marco (EMU): I'm not sure I understand with no keyboard there is no possibility for local control. Robert: Right, sorry, ok. Mike Ward: Is the unit we are discussing available as a module without a keyboard? Marco (EMU): Yes, it is only available as a 1 U rack module. Jim Maki: Follow up MIke? Mike Ward: Yes, thanks. You say "only"... Does the module lack any features of the regualt unit? Marco (EMU): There is no keyboard version available. Matt Donnelly: Are the sysex parameters only in effect for the user defined section? Marco (EMU): You can alter a factory setting through sysex, but you would then have to save the altered version in one of the user slots. Matt Donnelly: Is there any hope that the Proteus could become a sort of sample player by using a computer to load new sample material or is everything burned in and you have to buy "sound blocks" to quote a Kurweil term? Marco (EMU): Everything is burned in. Mark Knox: Is Proteus compatable with Akai sample disks? Marco (EMU): Proteus is entirely ROM based. It has no way to read ANY disks. Matt Donnelly: Will the updated ROM be installed internally, or will it be on a card? Marco (EMU): Proteus is designed to accept an internal memory board containing up to 4 Mbyte. Bill Lewis: I know you said that everything was burned in, BUT, does the possibility exist that that other empty 4meg could become RAM instead of ROM? Marco (EMU): No. Proteus was designed from the start for ROM. Designing in the capability to use RAM would have substantially increased its cost. Bill Lewis: Too bad. I still want one anyway <grin>. Thanks. Jim Maki: Another one Bill, I owe you one <grin>. Bill, wake up! Bill Lewis: I'm here and I'm done. Let Mike go. Paul Miller: Hi, Marco. Quick questions: What is projected cost of Proteus; and, what is the factory warranty period? Marco (EMU): $995.00 firm. Warranty is one year. Matt Donnelly: Do any of your setups include x-fade patches, or multi samples? Marco (EMU): Virtually ALL the sampled instruments are multisamples, and some of the factory presets use crossfades. Bill Lewis: How about a suggested list price for the ROM upgrade? Marco (EMU): Hasn't been finalized yet, but we're hoping for the $495 area for a full 4 Mbyte. Robert: You mentioned ST and Mac editors. Can sounds be loaded and saved to disk? Marco (EMU): "Presets," i.e., combinations of sounds and waveforms, and all the control parameters associated with them, can be saved to disk and reloaded by the editors, or, in fact, any MIDI sysex recording device. Again, the samples and waveforms themselves are stored only in ROM. Matt Donnelly: Will the add ROM be used to increase the "User Area" or will it include more samples and waveforms? Marco (EMU): More samples and waveforms. Bill Lewis: Okay. Can it be thougt of as a wave table synthesizer and if so, how many different wave types waves are in the model you plan to ship? Marco (EMU): There is a selection of about 45 precompiled additive waveforms along with some just plain weird stuff. Bill Lewis: So then it can be thought of as a wave table instrument? Marco (EMU): As a combination sample player and wave synth in the spirit of the M1 or D50 but with much better samples and sound quality. Bill Lewis: Ed? Ed Rudnick: Yes? Marco (EMU): Just checking. Ed Rudnick: Very Funny. Paul Miller: Thanks. Some of us have trouble with no line wrapping, so if senders could use shorter lines (say, 50 chars or so), that would be helpful. Jim Maki: Matt, thanks for being so patient. Matt Donnelly: Sorry, I think I missed the answer to my last question. Does the optional ROM add new samples and waveforms? And what might we be looking at? Marco (EMU): Yes, the additional ROM doubles the amount of sample and waveform memory. Looking at? Jim Maki: Got another, Matt? Matt Donnelly: What sounds would you include? Marco (EMU): Our current plans call for the first additional set to feature orchestral sounds -- solo strings, oboes bassoons, percussion, orchestral brass, etc. And before the next question. I would like to let Gerry relieve me here for a bit. Ed... I mean, Gerry? Gerry (EMU): Hey! Jim Maki: Marco -- Second door on the right. Marco (EMU): Thanks! Ed Rudnick: Knock first. Gerry (EMU): Well, I got in about 1 and a half hours of practice. Bill Lewis: Thank you! Which reminds me, what's in the ORIGINAL :-) ROMs? Gerry (EMU): Lots of stuff -- drums, basses,synth sounds,pop brass, strings, piano, etc. Ed Rudnick: A very nice Rhodes (sic) sound. Bill Lewis: Thanks. Ed Rudnick: Great rock drums. Jim Maki: You had one Matt? Matt Donnelly: Yes, Can I throw away my drum machine and do I get a price break if I say send me mine loaded with all of the memory. Ed Rudnick: Not if we made it. Marco (EMU): Only if it isn't a SP1200 Gerry (EMU): I dont know what you mean "price break." Matt Donnelly: I was sort of kidding. I meant, if I ordered all of the optional memory, could I get a "package deal?" Gerry (EMU): No, I don't think so. Matt Donnelly: Oh. Jim Maki: Gerry, the statement was made a while back that setups could be saved to any sysex storage device. Will you have the sysex bulk send requests published in the manual? Gerry (EMU): It's easier than that. The Proteus has a data transfer function that allows you to send any or all of your custom presets either directly to another Proteus over MIDI or to record the data in any sequencer which records MIDI Sisex stuff the procedure is very fast. Jim Maki: Follow up. Is this a single dump or will there be handshaking protocols? Gerry (EMU): I believe it's a single dump we've used Performer and Master Tracks Pro for this. Jim Maki: Thanks. Go for it, Whiz. Bill Lewis: Just a short personal note. You know Gerry, I have only MET Ed here tonight but somehow he reminds me a lot of Herb!! Gerry (EMU): Ed, what do you think If someone said that about me I'd be in love!!! Ed Rudnick: I'd KILL 'em. Marco (EMU): Actually, I beleive they have! Ed Rudnick: Or send them to next Halloween. Gerry (EMU): Ed? Ed Rudnick: Si? Jim Maki: Does ed do any typing at EMU? Gerry (EMU): But Herb has such large feet! Ed Rudnick: Bible system. Matt Donnelly: I have one last question before I have to go I would really like to thank you people from EMU for your time here tonight. And now for the question: Does the optional ROM also increase the user memory? Gerry (EMU): Great question. I think not. Marco? Jim Maki: Heehee. Marco (EMU): It's not planned to at this time. Marco (EMU): However, for those needing the extra channels. It is planned to have a version of the basic unit with JUST the optional ROMs in it so you could have two of them suppling 64 voice polyphony! Matt Donnelly: Well, I suppose that's really not a problem you can stick new setups at the beginning of a sequence in sysex for or buy two not a bad idea at that price! Jim Maki: Marco, what's the second box with only ROMs gonna go for? Marco (EMU): The same $995. Marco (EMU): It would be exactly the same unit, but just with different ROMs. Jim Maki: Oh. Thanks. Mark Knox: Thanks. You mentioned 32 notes. How about channels mult tambral. And how's the flexibilty? Gerry (EMU): Well, all 16 MIDI channels can be accessed simultaneously and the prototypes we have here don't bend at all. Just kidding. The answer is VERY FLEXIBLE. Mark Knox: Got it so you can get 16 pairs 8 sets 4, etc or smart dynamic assignment as needed ??? Gerry (EMU): Anything the dynamic allocation is very smart in a musical way and you have total control over output assignments and channel usage combining the instruments and making new sounds is unbelievably intuitive. Mark Knox: Congrats if the average guy can just rely on its musical smarts and sequence. This thing will change the whole idea of home** MIDI! Gerry (EMU): And IT'S SO SMALL!!!! Jim Maki: Don't let her hear that! Mark Knox: And inexpensive!! Marco (EMU): Don't let her hear that either! Jim Maki: Question on dynamic voice allocation: Ed Rudnick: And FLEXIBLE! Jim Maki: Hehe. Any algos that keep bass notes and high melody notes over internal voicings when the 24 polyphony is reached? Gerry (EMU): No, more having to do with held noytes and envelopes. Jim Maki: How to do with envelopes? Gerry (EMU): BTW, I just read that 24 poly PROTEUS is 32 channel. Jim Maki: 32 poly? Gerry (EMU): No. I like to say it I like to put my arms down on a piano preset and hear all that sound. Roy Smith: Tech question: Does the Proteus use constant rate playback with interpolation or var rate? (I should know this, but I don't remember). Gerry (EMU): It uses fixed rate (Gosset/Smith) similar to the waveframe but it sounds better. GSA prob. Roy Smith: I heard it at NAMM and was knocked out. It takes a lot to do that. My compliments to the chef. Gerry (EMU): Well, the chef is our Cheif wizard Dave Rossum who designed the E-II for example and spent a LOT of research time on the G-chip which is responsible for the PROTEUS sound and price I wish I could tell you what else is in the oven. Mark Knox: Is this built in the USA totally? Gerry (EMU): Um, yes. Ed Rudnick: Well, nothing is really built TOTALLYY in the USA. But as far as the REALLY IMPORTANT STUFF, yes. Mark Knox: OK, next question. Does the RAM/ROM drive the G-Chip for both samples and the additive stuff?? Gerry (EMU): All instruments in the Proteus. Ed Rudnick: Actually, the G-Chip does the driving. Gerry (EMU): Samples and waveform data are in ROM. The only RAM is the preset configurations, which the user programs. Jim Maki: How many user slots? Gerry (EMU): 64, all in all. Ed Rudnick: I think he means cartridges? None. Gerry (EMU): There are 128 instruments, 192 presets, 64 of which are RAM. Jim Maki: What country makes the manuals? <grin> Jim Maki: Everyone had enough? Dan Smith: Kbd, module? Ed Rudnick: 1U Rack module. Marco (EMU): We'll put a keyboard on it! Just don't ask again! Ed Rudnick: 32-voice, 16-bit MIDI is what you get. Jim Maki: How about pitch wheels, breath controllers, partridges in pear trees? Dan Smith: Multi timbral? Ed Rudnick: Best sounds you've ever heard is what u hear. Marco (EMU): 16 Channels. Dan Smith: Play only? Mark Knox: Thanks. I am ready for one when is it available. Jim Maki: Marco, Ed, Gerry, we'd like to go on, but it's getting pretty late on the East Coast. Ed Rudnick: We know. Jim Maki: We'll put all this up in a library file so those that were not fortunate enough to attend can read all about it. Really appreciate you spending time with us tonight. Ed Rudnick: Thanks for a "new experience" goodnite EST'ers and all. Jim Maki: Marco, wanna take three more? Gerry (EMU): Hey -- I'm back. Don't know what happened. My keyboard just stopped communicating. I had to get out to get back in. Oh, well. Jim Maki: You missed the door prize, or, a brand new Synclavier. Gerry (EMU): Don't want it. Ed Rudnick: I'll take it. I have the Audity. Marco (EMU): I'm dropping out now. Thanks to all of you! Dan Smith: Where to look for complete info on product? Gerry (EMU): Well, probably at an EMU dealer. Where do you live? Dan Smith: Tampa, Fla. Gerry (EMU): So, do you know Fred at Thoroughbred? They're good. Dan Smith: I will check it out. Paul Miller: Guess I'll turn capture off. This has been recorded for all posterior, and will be edited and up in the libraries sometime Real Soon Now. Nite all. Gerry (EMU): I think my eyes are burning. I'd like to say I have a date, but it's a lie... Paul Miller: I have a prune. Gerry (EMU): ...and Marco knows I've used it too much so no one believes me anymore. Jim Maki: But a little white lie can't get you into too much trouble! Thanks Gerry, gnite. Seeya guys. Been fun. DO THESE GUYS BABBLE OR WHAT!!!!! It sounds like a Neat Box rich coccoli
1886.9	Local Off !	WOTVAX::KENT		`Tue Feb 28 1989 11:38`	5
	Yes but when are they gonna give us a rackmount version ;-) Paul.
1886.10	Attaboy, COMMUSIC.	DYO780::SCHAFER	Brad - back in Ohio.	`Tue Feb 28 1989 12:33`	6
	Shows t' go ya ... We have a lot of sharp people in this conference. Great source of GOOD RELIABLE info. -b
1886.12	Set MODE/EQUIPMENT_SCHEMING	NRPUR::DEATON		`Mon Mar 06 1989 11:59`	7
	Does anyone know if the more demanding samples (i.e. piano) will eat up the polyphony, like on the U110? Also, will the digital waveform sounds be able to compete with analog machines for warmth (like a pulsewidth waveform-type sound)? Dan
1886.13	From the horse's mouth	DYO780::SCHAFER	Brad - back in Ohio.	`Tue Apr 18 1989 15:46`	14
	An update on the Proteus ... GOOD NEWS - first dealer shipment is expected to be in 3 weeks. BAD NEWS - only 1 (demo) unit per dealer on first ship. Subsequent orders will commence shipping in about 6 weeks (or 3 weeks from demo arrival). Still some nits to iron out. They figure that there are almost 4000 presold. BOTTOM LINE - if you want one before September, you'd better get a deposit on one now. -b
1886.14	"I can wait as long as they can..."	MUSKIE::ALLEN		`Wed Apr 19 1989 17:45`	18
	re .13 I figure that there is a good chance I will get one of these, provided they sound as good as they have been made out to. I got some MKTG info from Emu on the PROTEUS (including a list of the 100+ presets if anyone is interested) which seems to back Brad up. I'm looking at it as a X-mas present to yours truly. The fact that the unit will not be widely available before the fall is a good thing for me. I get to use the money longer. Also, I really want to hear and see some history on these before I cough up the cash. (I really don't want to go through what several HR16 users endured). Clusters, Bill Allen
1886.15	sure, more info	SUBSYS::ORIN	Hello, Ensoniq? When's the first VFX...	`Thu Apr 20 1989 11:48`	14
	<<< Note 1886.14 by MUSKIE::ALLEN >>> -< "I can wait as long as they can..." >- Hi Cluster-man, I would be very interested in some MKTG info, Bill, but it sounds like a lot of typing. Maybe just an overview if you have time? thanks, dave
1886.16	Proteus Presets	CARP::ALLEN		`Fri Apr 21 1989 18:15`	102
	I read through Brad's .0 note again and the one of the Emu telecon- ference and realized that much of what is in my info is already available to noters. A listing of presets follows: 1. Piano 2. Piano Pad 3. Loose Piano 4. Tight Piano 5. Strings 6. Long Strings 7. Slow Strings 8. Dark Strings 9. Voices 10. Slow Voices 11. Dark Choir 12. Synth Flute 13. Soft Flute 14. Alto Sax 15. Tenor Sax 16. Baritone Sax 17. Dark Sax 18. Soft Trumpet 19. Dark Soft Trumpet 20. Hard Trumpet 21. Dark Hard Trumpet 22. Horn Falls 23. Trombone 1 24. Trombone 2 25. French Horn 26. Brass 1 27. 2 28. 3 29. Trombone/Sax 30. Guitar Mute 31. Electric Guitar 32. Acoustic Guitar 33. Rock Bass 34. Stone Bass 35. Flint Bass 36. Funk Slap 37. Funk Pop 38. Harmonics 39. Rock/Harmonics 40. Stone/Harmonics 41. Nose Bass 42. Bass Synth 1 43. Bass Synth 2 44. Synth Pad 45. Medium Envelope Pad 46. Long Envelope Pad 47. Dark Synth 48. Percussive Organ 49. Marimba 50. Vibraphone 51. All Percussion 1 52. All Percussion 2 53. Std. Percussion Setup 1 54. " " " 2 55. " " " 3 56. Kicks 57. Snares 58. Toms 59. Cymbals 60. Latin Drums 61. Latin Percussion 62. Agogo Bell 63. Woodblock 64. Conga 65. Timbale 66. Ride Cymbal 67. Percussion FX1 68. Percussion FX2 69. Metal 70. Oct 1 Sine 71 - 76 Oct 2-7 All 77 - 82 Oct 2-7 Odd 83 - 88 Oct 2-7 Even 89. Low Odds 90. Low Evens 91. Four Octaves 92 - 95 Synth Cyc 1-4 96 - 97 Fund Gone 1-2 98. Bite Cyc 99. Buzzy Cyc 1 100 - 103 Metlphone 1-4 104 - 106 Duck Cyc 1-3 107 - 110 Wind Cyc 1-4 111 - 112 Organ Cyc 1-2 113. Noise 114 - 117 Stray Voice 1-4 118 - 119 Synth String 1-2 120. Animals 121. Reed 122. Pluck 1 123. Pluck 2 124. Mallet 1 125. Mallet 2 Phew!!!!!!!!!!!!
1886.17	Serious ?, me ?	ULTRA::BURGESS		`Fri Apr 21 1989 18:40`	31
	re < Note 1886.16 by CARP::ALLEN > > -< Proteus Presets >- Wot, no Hammonds ? {Ham 'n eggs, etc.} > 21. Dark Hard Trumpet Whats the difference between "Dark" and "Hard" ? > 32. Acoustic Guitar Aren't they all ? {electric ones being "Gitaws"} > 58. Toms Tom's what ? Anyway, I'll probably have to take a six pack of these things, once I get a 48 track sequence all loaded up. I ASSUME there's some kind of an overflow mode so they can be daisy chained when they run out of all those dynamically assigned voices. Now, about the number of mixer channels I'll need...... R
1886.18	In person!	NRPUR::DEATON		`Wed May 17 1989 17:15`	8
	Well I saw it! I heard it (a little). It sounds like its as good as its hyped up to be. I heard a trumpet blast that trailed off like the player ran out of air... Impressive. I'll get one when someone sells one in the WantAds for $500. Dan
1886.19	Well...where?	FGVAXR::MASHIA	We're all playing in the same band	`Wed May 17 1989 17:31`	1

1886.20	Oh, sorry. E.U. Wurlitzer's in Bean Town	NRPUR::DEATON		`Wed May 17 1989 17:56`	0
1886.21	review from USENET	NORGE::CHAD	Ich glaube Ich t�te Ich h�tte	`Thu May 18 1989 13:10`	250
	Here is a review of the Proteus by John Rossi from USENET who saw a demo at La Salles in E. Hartford CT. It is long but very very interesting. Chad ------------------------------------------------------------------------------Article 7656 of rec.music.synth Path: shlump.dec.com!decwrl!ucbvax!NUSC.NAVY.MIL!rossi%v70nl.decnet From: rossi%[email protected] ("V70NL::ROSSI") Newsgroups: rec.music.synth Subject: Proteus Demo Review !!! LONG [17K] !!! Message-ID: <[email protected]> Date: 17 May 89 21:20:00 GMT Sender: [email protected] Lines: 234 Last night I went to an E-mu clinic at Lasalle's in E. Hartford. I finally got to see and hear a Proteus. There were about 25 interested people there to see the thing and a demo of the new E-III software. The following is a summary of my impressions of the Proteus as a soon to be owner... I had previously placed a down payment on a Proteus at Lasalle based solely on what I had read in various reviews of NAMM, my conversations with people who generally as critical as I am who went to NAMM, and my conversations with the people at E-mu on the phone. I have never (except in the case of the PAIA Proteus) ever committed myself to something I hadn't heard, much less never got to play with in a showroom. Needless to say, I was a little apprehensive about making this $995 committment based on hearsay, and as I approached Hartford last night, I had second thoughts about dropping the deal. As soon as I got in the door, the salesperson with whom I have been working closely over the past few years (J.B.) told me that there was another delay in procurement of the housings for the Proteus and that there would be another delay in shippment and that I wouldn't see the thing for another 4-6 weeks. At that point, I started to recall some of the things I had read in this newsgroup about the delays and possible non-delivery of the Proteus and thought about walking out. However, since I had made the 40+ mile trip to Lasalle, I decided to stay and see the show. What they had set up was a Proteus on the top support of a 3 tier stand being fed by either an E-III (sequencer) on the second tier, an EMax keyboard on the lower tier, or a MAC using Opcode patching software on an independent stand to the left. All of the inputs to the Proteus were through some pretty lame switching through box (which required switching every time the controling device was changed). I mentioned this because It would have really been exciting to see the Proteus operate with a sequence and the keyboard through a merge device. Anyway, the audio out was routed directly to a somewhat noisy display board (Soundcraft-32, I think) which was set flat with no sends active. The noise in the board was mostly 60 Hz hum which was generated by some other connections to the board (probably some ground loops) not involving the Proteus or the E-III. The final signal path was through some pretty hefty (400 W) amplification and finally through a pair of JBL stage monitors (the ones with the directional horns on top of the cabinets). I was put aback by this setup because after all this was a very complete showroom and I felt that they could have provided some merging capability, a quiet board, and a better control keyboard than an Emax (something like an EPS which was sitting very close which would allow poly-aftertouch). Any- way, the JBLs made up for what the rest of the system lacked, and I guess the guy doing the demo probably didn't want to be demoing Ensoniq's poly pressure superiority. One thing which made this 'Clinic' different than any I had attended before was that the guy doing it was a very skilled synthesist (that is to say his articulation styles allowed expression unencumbered by piano or organ stylings exclusively) who obviously knew a lot about how sound is structured and how instruments are played in the real world. Secondly, I was amazed that a musician with these kind of chops also had so much technical information at his disposal, being able to answer, without any bullshit, all technical questions from the audience. Finally, throughout the demos, the guy gave examples of how not to do things. It was clear from the audience's reaction to these examples, that the general reaction to a demonstration is very much dictated by exactly how a sampler is demoed. For example, in demonstrating a very fine trumpet sound, which when played like a trumped sounded superb, sounded awful when played with organ or piano chord stylings (I shudder to think how this thing is going to sound in the hands of all the would-be Greg Rollies (SP?) who now seem to operate keyboard demo departments at the shops). Anyway, the demo began with some classical piano offerings using the piano presets. Well, boys and girls, even when played with an Emax using no aftertouch (which apparently controlls some crossfading and envlope modulation on this particular patch [only two of the many control assignments which are available in the Proteus through E-mu's version of Obies matrix patching]), the sound was very good. There was no hint of noise or distortion of any kind. To say the least, I was impressed. Next there was an overall demo of the 32 voice 16 channel multitimbrality. The guy used a Suzzanne Ciani piece from an upcomming soundtrack (or something) which was stored in the E-III's sequencer (which sounded an awful lot like 'Neverland' from the album (CD). by thge same name). The voicings were incredible, and even if you don't appreciate Ciani's musical genre, you had to be floored by this demo. All of the parts were there in dazzling, moving stereo images. The percussion leaped out from all unexpected angles. The string sections and new age D-50 type fills and pads were amazing. This was the next best thing I had ever experienced next to Ciani live (hey, what can I say, I've had a thing for Suzzanne Ciani ever since I met her in 78 at music show in New York). The thing that was hard to fathom was how all the sounds were comming from one little 1 rackspace box. More about the polyphony/multitimbrality later when I mention E-mu's version of Roland's ROM-Play feature in the D110 series. Next the guy went through about 30 of the first 64 factory presets, including examples of how to change them using any of the multitude of modulation path routings which are possible. There was a very nice synth-string section which sounded very much like a clean ARP Solina. Also there was your typical human voice 'AAAAH' chorus which, although quite overused in many New Age productions, was clean and realistic through much of the 5-octave range of the Emax. Later he did some of the solo instrument voices. Among them was one of the best sampled trumpets I have ever heard, including slurs. He also demoed the sax patch which lacked a bit of color of the processed sax which David Sanborn and Kenny G. fans are accustomed to, but which sounded an awful lot like an unprocessed sax (say, maybe there is something to this sampling thing after all). The real kicker for me was in the moving acoustic guitar. Mason Williams would have had a heart attack if he heard and saw this guy doing Classical Gas on the Proteus. It's hard to say what you could expect if you added a little of outboard processing to this patch (which mahes use of many of the envlope modulation routes to achieve a very lifelike tone), but I would believe that you could convince any guitbox junkie that it was 'the real thing', with no problem whatsoever. In addition to the 70 or so sampled instruments in the Proteus, there are also about 50 single cycle synthesizer waveforms (in this regard after you go through your basic squares, sines and pulses, these behave more like complex waveforms avaialble in the wavetable synths, and additive synths than like common synthesizer waveforms). There were 3 patches demoed which were named after their D-50 counterparts (which we have been overhearing in advertizing jingles and in New Age recordings for the past few years). Thes patches all used thre synth waveforms, either alone, mixed or layered with some simple sampled sounds (e.g., flute). Anybody care for a noiseless D-50? If you go for that glassy sort of sound, these patches rivaled anything I've ever heard from a D-50. Speaking of breathy flutes, the Proteus has them, as well as just about any other instrument you are likely to need sampled versions of. There are sampled string sections with pre-programmed layering for spliting the sections by frequency in the stereo field and modulating amplitude and bite by keyboard position (i.e., bass on left, cellos center, and violins right) each with it's own characterisic resonance and chorus delay. When the string sections were demoed, we were also treated to the chorusing capability in the Proteus in which by modulating the chorus rate, you could effectively change the percieved spread of the instrument section spatially, as well as the percieved size of the room you were listening to. Similarly for the brass and winds patches he demoed. The guy also did some stuff with the sampled keyboard instruments. The B3 was nice and full, with mod wheel control of Leslie effect. The Rhodes was ok, but I still like the FM versions of this instrument more. Then there were several more pianos, more weird pads, etc. Finally, there was the second most amazing thing I heard in the night (next to the Ciani piece). Apparently each Proteus will ship with an apx. 3 minute demo piece in ROM. Given the braindead nature of many people who work in keyboard departments these days, this is a very good idea on the part of E-mu. The demo really shows off the polyphony and multitimbrality of the instrument. It moves through as many different styles as one might dare in a 3 minute segment without really offending anybody's sensibilities. It uses virtually every parameter of the Proteus and is quite amazing. If you were impressed by the Roland ROM-Play demos on the U-110 or the D-110/10/20, you will be easily seduced by this demo. Now, maybe the sensaround effect of the JBLs which vibrated the room nicely with every bass punch added to the overall effect. And, you wont get this effect from 3 inch speakers, for sure. But, when I heard the demo, I was very happy to have placed my down payment when I did. When the demo stopped, there was a deafening silence (always wanted to use that cliche), and people started talking potential delivery dates if immediate down payments were made. Nuff said. I was very impressed by the sounds which were possible in the Proteus. It's about time that a machine came to market with sounds in presets which are truly usable. The 64 user defined patches should be plenty, especially considering the multitude of editor/librarians which are scheduled for timely release. In closing I would like to address some of the comments which have been made in this newsgroup lately. First, I have absolutely no idea of what Carter Scholtz (SP?) was talking about in his closing sentence last week which concerned selling a lot of these things to people who didn't know what real instruments sound like. After last night's demo, the considerable respect for his criticisms I developed after his Keyboard article on scoring programs kinda wilted away. If the implication of that statement was that the sound of the Proteus was not true to real instruments, I think that nothing could be farther from the truth. Obviously a sampled instrument is not going to exactly duplicate the nuances of the original instrument, no matter how many multi samples go into the patch. All I can say is that the Proteus is a lot closer to the things it says it is than any other instrument I have heard. There is no question in my mind that the Proteus (and E-III samples on which it is based) are the closest the industry has come to the promises which were suposed to be the product of 16 bit sampling technology. Carter is correct if he asserts that the Proteus will not displace Miles Davis in trumpetland, however what it will allow is the most convincing approxima- tion of him available to date for some keyboardist (or other MIDI controler user) who understands trumpet articulation. This goes for all the sample based sounds in the Proteus. Second, I was given updated information about the 4 Meg expansion capability in the sample ROM section. The current idea is to release something which is a lot like Kurzweil's sound-block concept. As it currently stands, the schedule calls for release of the first soundblock which will contain orchestral samples (solo's, mainly) in early summer. This release will be concurrent with the release of Proteus II, which is identical to Proteus except it will have the orchestral soundblock in its first 4 meg address space, allowing 2 units to be connected for 64 voice 32 channel polyphony/ multitimbrality. Note, the inclusion of the orchestral soundblock in Proteus I will not extend its 16 channel/32 voice patrameters. The folks at E-mu are also looking at other potential soundblocks. They had considered jazz band, etc. I think that they will probably wait for buyer demand before the commit to burning new sound-blocks. Anyway, as I speculated previously, the original soundblock contains most of the sounds that one really needs a sampler for, anyway. With the addition of an orchestral soundblock with 4 meg of mostly solo instruments, sans piano, I think most people's needs will quickly filled. Unlike most samplers or sample playback players, the secondary strengths of the Proteus extend far beyond the possibilities inherant in the great samples themselves. The matrix like modulation features which make use of all the current MIDI controllers (and some which are new extensions such as programmed pan, etc) and the modulating routings and layering possibilities, make for an almost endless palate of sound textures. Remember, that unlike many instruments which are multitimbral, the Proteus has a full 32 voice implementation. This isn't partials (a la Roland) but 32 full voices. Where you can conceviably have a 16 voice piano allocation with 16 left over for other instruments. By the way, the thing doed dynamically allocate the voices and includes an exceptionally smooth stealing algorithm with unit overflow which is always there if needed. In comparison to the U-110, well, there just isn't any fair comparison. Even if you figure the U-110's 512K (4 slots times 128K/slot) expandibility, it doesn't come close to Proteus. Just add the cost of 4 cards and compare that to the 4 meg (8 times as much as a fully loaded U-110 expansion) in the Proteus' soundblocks (expected retail somewhere around $500). When you figure in the quitness, lack of distortion and incredible overall sound quality you end up with a hell of a cost benefit ratio in favor of the Proteus. Even if it meant renting a E-III for timely use and waiting a few months for the Proteus, the Proteus route would still be the way to go. I hate to start a buy American thing here, but... after this I think that the Japaneese music conglomerates will have to reassess their pricing structures in the US. If the Proteus is worth $995 than the effective price of a U-110 should be well under $300. Even then, I would expect the Proteus to blow the doors off the U-110 in terms of sales. Don't get me wrong, the U-110 was a good (albeit nearly obsolete) idea when it was introduced. In light of the Proteus, it seems now like a blatant rip-off. In general, it should be expected that changes of this value magnitude should happen over several years (e.g., take the metamorphosis of the 'real sample' drummer from the original $3000 LinnDrum to the $300 HR-16), not over several months. Well, I never really did like Roland's manuals anyway. Finally, the Proteus isn't the be-all and end-all in synthesis. It is really just a very sophisticated ROM based sample player. It will fit in nicely with all the other synth gear you may have collected. It appears to be extremely well thought out for flexibility and expandibility. Hey, someone might even say it SOUNDS GREAT and is MORE FILLING. As for my own personal opinion, I feel it would be an incredible value at twice its list price but at $995 (probably $850 or so if you wait 6 months) it is the best value the music industry has unleashed on us techno-junkies. John [email protected]
1886.22	Oh say can you see?	SUBSYS::ORIN	Got a bad case of VFX	`Thu May 18 1989 14:52`	5
	Thanks for posting that. Why not start a "buy American thing"? I've replaced my D50 with a VFX. I'm now looking to replace my S550 with an EPS-M, but I want to transfer the Roland sound library to my Mac first. Way to go EMU! dave
1886.23	sale ?	NORGE::CHAD	Ich glaube Ich t�te Ich h�tte	`Thu May 18 1989 16:31`	3
	So dave, when is the sale? (of S550, D50, etc :-) :-) :-) Chad
1886.24	Good one!	MARVIN::MACHIN		`Fri May 19 1989 05:53`	10
	>Thanks for posting that. Why not start a "buy American thing"? I've >replaced >my D50 with a VFX. I'm now looking to replace my S550 with an EPS-M, >but I Dave -- I've heard some great excuses for blowing paychecks before, but this is the best yet! Let me see if I can learn that tune "Oh see can you say..." Richard.
1886.25	Don't sell the kids, quite yet...	CARP::ALLEN		`Thu Jun 01 1989 13:04`	33
	Well I finally got to here the PROTEUS SGU, last night at a E-mu clinic. With all the good press (hype?) attending this product, I was very curious to hear what it really sounded like. In a word, it sounds great; there is very little descernible noise which is probably the most striking feature. This is particularly apparent on breathy patches like the "D-50" knock-offs. The piano and strings all sounded very clean as did the brass and drums. However, I couldn't help feeling a teeny bit underwhelmed by the experience. It's not that PROTEUS is not everything E-mu and some of its boosters claim it is. It's just that in the final analysis, PROTEUS is a very good SGU, based on a innovative architecture and possessing excellent samples. That's great. It is clearly NOT the last SGU people will ever buy, or the second coming. I guess after reading everything in the press, I had started to suspect that it was the second coming.* It's definitely worth hearing if you are in the market and can wait until summer when they will be widely available. Based on what I heard, I would not plunk down a nickel on one of these until they have some kind of track record (ie people who've bought them can vouch for them, and I can spend some time listening to one at my own leisure-no crowded showrooms, please). If the choice was between this at $995 and my D110 at $600, it would have been a close call: PROTEUS would clearly have had superior sounds, but ROLAND, as they say, had it now. Clusters, Bill Allen * Too bad; maybe this means I'm not a midiholic 8-).
1886.26	Review Forthcoming, by I.B. Waiting	DYO780::SCHAFER	Brad - back in Ohio.	`Thu Jun 01 1989 15:32`	8
	Well, I'm one of the fools (ahem) who has plunked down a hard-earned deposit on one of these. I'm expecting mine to arrive sometime toward the end of this month (just about the time of the arrival of our 2nd child). I'll be posting a review, you can bet your boots. -b
1886.27	Do kids accept MIDI CC#7?	WEFXEM::COTE	No marigolds in the promised land...	`Thu Jun 01 1989 16:13`	7
	I'll bet the kid makes more noise than the Proteus... ;^) Congrats, Edd
1886.28	MIDIkiddie.	DYO780::SCHAFER	Brad - back in Ohio.	`Thu Jun 01 1989 17:01`	5
	>...more noise than the Proteus... As it should. Oh, I'll post a review of the kid, too. &*}
1886.29	I can't believe it!!@$#%!!!	CARP::ALLEN		`Thu Jun 01 1989 18:11`	12
	re .26 Brad, You say the baby and PROTEUS are both due at about the same time? Nahhh....Brad, you didn't, did you??!?? I guarantee you will be appreciate your child (even with all its foibles) much more than PROTEUS!!!!!! :-) Looking forward to your review, Bill Allen
1886.30		HAMER::COCCOLI	cyberwhat?	`Thu Jun 01 1989 22:25`	5
	And remember...with the kid there's no off switch! rich
1886.31	More on you know what...	MUSKIE::PROPOSALS		`Fri Jun 23 1989 16:11`	35
	Follow-up to .25 Got a chance to play with Guitar Center's PROTEUS demo for about an hour. This time I got to hear most of the factory samples one by one. Some of them are truly stunning! Many are very ordinary, even boring. It has probably been said somewhere else in these notes, but it seems E-mu purposely included many samples of synth- esized sounds, as opposed to Roland using more natural samples in the U-110. For this reason, some sounds like Grand Piano, actuaaly sounded better to me in the U-110 than from PROTEUS. Likewise, many of the "unadorned" string and horn samples sounded...well, just "very good" on PROTEUS (as opposed to spectacular). This may be because what PROTEUS does real well, it does REAL WELL!!! You'll come off one of the Trumpet or Sax patches, and fall into somethings like Dark Choir or one of the "D-50"-like sounds, and go "Wow!!!". As Dan Eaton mentioned earlier, there is a horn patch called Horn Falls which you have to hear. The horn stab sounds and then sort of dries up! Great for those Blood, Sweat and Tears covers. The drums are also very nice, to my ears, with some punchy snares. There are about three different Choir samples which sound great, too. The biggest thing I noticed about them all is how quiet they are. It's sort of like the difference between a good analog (turntable) setup and a good CD; the latter is so much quieter and gains dynamic range because of the lower noise floor. I gotta admit, I almost asked the dudes what they would give me for my D-110 in trade for a PROTEUS. Then I thought of what they'd say and decided despite how nice PROTEUS is I can live without it for a while. Now, when I can get one for $599.95... :^) Clusters, Bill
1886.32	Great stuff from the rumor mill.	KALLON::EIRIKUR	Hallgrimsson, CDA Product Mgmt.	`Wed Jul 05 1989 14:06`	71
	From: [email protected] (Dean Swan) Subject: E-Mu, The Proteus, Etc. Date: 5 Jul 89 12:53:31 GMT Organization: Clarkson University, Potsdam, NY For those of you who are interested, and I assume that is a lot of you, here is what I know about the state of E-Mu, and the Proteus: E-Mu has been in serious financial trouble for some time. They spent a lot of money developing their "G-Chip", which is the heart of Proteus and the E-III. This put the company in a very bad cash position. With the E-III being a relatively high-end product, sales of it alone were not going to save the company. Enter the Proteus. It's a low cost, professional quality instrument that absolutely everyone will want. E-Mu, needing cash badly, is forced to prematurely introduce the Proteus at NAMM last January, long before their production was ready to meet demand. The result was this: Everybody thought it was the hit of the show, and placed their orders. Ok, now here E-Mu is with 35,000 orders for Proteus, and only capable of producing about 200 units a month. They upgraded their production to 1000 units a month, but the orders keep pouring in. At this rate, there will be a three year wait for anyone who wants one. E-Mu projects that the Japs will be able to catch up on a technology level in only two years. Now what? Well, with over 20,000,000 in orders that you can't fill and the hottest product since sliced bread, one would think that you'd be on easy street. But, If you can't ship in a reasonable amount of time, people won't wait. This makes E-Mu a prime target for a large infusion of cash (also know as a take- over). Where does the money come from? Watch the next paragraph for details. You'll really never guess this one, so I'll build up to it slowly and keep you in suspense. The largest segment of the synth market is in home keyboards. Casio has known this for years, so they take their sht from the pro industry and make money hand over fist. Well, pianos and organs fall into this home market too. So who bails out E-Mu? Believe it or not, the answer is B*wn! Those of you out there in TV-land will have to fill in the blanks, since this is somewhat less than public information at this point. Anyway, part of the delay in the cases is that most of the units being produced right now are being private labeled for this piano and organ manufacturer. Most of the rest of them are going to Sam Ash. Sam Ash and E-Mu are, one might say, "As thick as molasses in January", but that's not really surprising. Ash is the largest music retailer in the metropolitan New York, Tri-State area, so I'd show favoritism to them too if I were in E-Mu's shoes. Not that E-Mu needs the help in selling these things. They need help making them. Thus ends my gossip column. E-Mu is apparently happy with producing a thousand units a month, but unless they seriously upgrade thier production, I don't see how they can make a serious impact in the pro and semi-pro markets. Mind you, the Japanese manufacturers won't be upset about this at all. I think that Roland, Yamaha, and Yamaha ....oops... I mean Korg (same thing anyway) will own the pro market, but I'm having my doubts about Yammer. The V80FD was supposed to be a filler product for a year in between the DX7-II and the new toy due in from Japan real-soon-now, but due to various factors they decided not to due it because that year somehow shrunk to 6 months, then three months. So anyway, right now, Yamaha has nothing in their pro product line. even aiming the V50 towards the home market. This is kind of disappointing to me, but it makes sense from a business standpoint. We'll have to wait and see....... Disclaimer: For official purposes, all the information in this posting is here-say, and I will not claim responsibility for it. I just wanted to let you all know where things are as I see it. If I get know in this business for telling the whole world what goes on behind the scenes, I won't have a job for long, so Please, exercise discretion in how you use this information. Thanx! -Dean Swan [email protected]
1886.33	don't you just hate it when.....	MIDI::DAN	All things are possible	`Wed Jul 05 1989 15:21`	4
	Gee, this means that if I place an order now that I'd have enough money saved up by the time I get off the waiting list and actually get one! -Dan
1886.34	Rumor confirmed.	DYO780::SCHAFER	Brad - back in Ohio.	`Thu Jul 06 1989 14:22`	17
	Well, I just talked to a few insiders at Emu ... looks like .32 is true for the most part. Baldwin has indeed bought out the home market version of the Proteus, and given Emu the cash needed to produce these things. The thing will definitely have Baldwin's label, not Emu's ... no one's saying what the functional differences will be. The Sam Ash deal is (so far) just smoke. According to Emu, all deliveries to dealers will be shipped on a date-ordered basis, not according to "whoever has the most pull". I don't know if I believe that or not. A production information update is supposed to be announced sometime later this month. For now, the dates remain uncertain. -b
1886.35	As promized, a review.	DYO780::SCHAFER	Brad - back in Ohio.	`Thu Jul 13 1989 14:32`	7
	Not the Proteus - the kid. Kristin was born this morning around 4:30am. Mom and kid are doing fine. Kid is definitely mono-timbral/monophonic, w/ lots of dynamic range and headroom. &*} -b
1886.36	Think how cheap Proteus will be in 18 years...	WEFXEM::COTE	We're gonna have a wing-ding!	`Thu Jul 13 1989 16:07`	5
	Kiss that E-mu goodbye! ...congrats! Edd
1886.37	Mazel-tov!	DREGS::BLICKSTEIN	Conliberative	`Thu Jul 13 1989 16:45`	5
	> Kid is definitely mono-timbral/monophonic.... > Kiss that E-mu goodbye! It's been my observation that no kid is "MIDI compatible".
1886.38	1 down, 1 to go	NORGE::CHAD	Ich glaube Ich t�te Ich h�tte	`Thu Jul 13 1989 17:21`	5
	Congrats! What are you doing here?!?! ;-) Chad
1886.39	The Original MIDIkid	DRUMS::FEHSKENS		`Thu Jul 13 1989 17:29`	5
	re .37 - Dave, you've obviously never met Alex Dreher. len (who "loaned" Alex a 7 piece Ludwig drumkit, until Alex decided the DW-5000 pedal was his, and managed to shred a Duraline woven Kevlar snare drum head by "playing" it with the business end of a screwdriver).
1886.40	Shhhh! This is the quiet part...	SUBSYS::ORIN	Got a bad case of VFX	`Thu Jul 13 1989 18:19`	13
	<<< Note 1886.35 by DYO780::SCHAFER "Brad - back in Ohio." >>> -< As promized, a review. >- Congrats Brad! If only kids would respond to CC#7? Or even velocity? 8^)) Anyway, buy the kid a Bazooki, some bagpipes, and a vibraslap for her crib. Maybe she can avoid MIDIfever for a few years. enjoy, dave
1886.41	yee haaa	HAMER::COCCOLI	no...not the House Of Pain!!!!	`Thu Jul 13 1989 19:20`	10
	Join the club!!! I've got a ten month old girl whose been slapping the keys on my KX5 for 3 months now. I even sequenced some of it for posterity. Best wishes Rich
1886.42	A rebuttal from the horses mouth (off USENET)	NORGE::CHAD	Ich glaube Ich t�te Ich h�tte	`Thu Jul 13 1989 19:52`	85
	Article 8429 of rec.music.synth Path: hiatus.dec.com!shlump.dec.com!decwrl!ucbvax!agate!apple!versatc!leadsv!oetl!beck From: [email protected] (Steve Beck) Newsgroups: rec.music.synth Subject: Proteus status and a rebuttal from EMU Message-ID: <[email protected]> Date: 12 Jul 89 22:32:42 GMT Reply-To: /dev/null Organization: Lockheed Missiles & Space Co., Santa Cruz, Ca. Lines: 72 My friends at EMU asked me to post this in responce to the July 5 1989 posting by Mr. Swan. EMU happens to be across the road from me. Also my recording studio is full of Emu, and one of everything else,as slaves. Dear Mr. Swan, Despite your understandable request for discretion,I have just recieved a copy of the message you posted on July 5 concerning the state of Emu and Proteus. To characterize your account of the situation as inaccurate,does not begin to do it justice. Apart from the publicity known facts(i.e. we developed the G- Chip,introduced Proteus at January NAMM,it was a big hit and we have lots of orders)virtually everything else you "know" about us is wrong. A few examples: The G-CHIP is not used in the E III. Your statement of our production plans and capacities are completely inaccurate. We were NOT bailed out/taken over by Baldwin Piano and Organ. Although we do have an OEM arrangement with Baldwin,it is for a custom version of the Emax,not Proteus. Baldwin is evaluating Proteus for a possible OEM product(this is no secret,they showed a prototype at NAMM) but not a single unit has been shipped to them. Sam Ash, in keeping with their position as one of our major dealers,has recieved less than 5% of Proteus to date. I think that what we find most disturbing about messages like this is not just that they spread false information about our company (and hence risk doing very real damage to our business) but that such conjecture (particularly under the guise of being information that the sender "knows") is totally unnecessary. Our phone number is listed in all our ads and literture. We maintain a presence on the MIDI forums of a number of public telecom networks. If you want to know something about the state of E-mu or Proteus, JUST ASK US.To the extent that the information is not proprietary, we will be happy to ensure that rumors and innuendo are not spread as fact. What I believe is most reprehensible about this particular incident, however, is your disclaimer that for "official" purposes you will not claim responsiblity for the information you have posted. Mr.Swan,whether you claim it or not, the responsibility IS yours. You have, for whatever reason, chosen to represent yourself as "knowing" things about E-mu systems and being in a position to tell "the whole world what goes on behind the scenes".In doing so, you have presented lies about our company as fact and done a great disservice both to E-mu and to those who may have read your message and accepted it as truth. This is irresponsibility of the highest order. If,in the future,you or anyone else reading this message has questions about E-mu Systems or it`s products, please contact us at 408-438-1921.Not only will you get the truth, but we will take full responsibility for every word of it. Marco Alpert Director of Marketing E-mu Systems, Inc. -- < EMAIL: {pyramid,leadsv}!oetl!beck >
1886.43	KEYBOARD review August 89	NORGE::CHAD	Ich glaube Ich t�te Ich h�tte	`Fri Jul 14 1989 11:40`	27
	Got the latest KEYBOARD yesterday. They reviewed the Proteus, The VFX (which has some zits and had some QA problems) and some disk drive for the M1. Here is the pro/con box for the Proteus. They also have a picture of it. Looks good! Pros & Cons +------------------+ Pros: Wide array of sampled sounds and waveforms, full programmability, flexible output routings, dynamic-voice allocation. Cons: No plug-in memory cards, no real-time modulation of lowpass filtering. +------------------+ The effects sends/returns are the same physical jacks as the 2nd and 3rd audio outs. They are summed together at the final outs. Up to two stereo effects boxes or four mono boxes can be attached. it is a 32 oscillator sound. Complex sounds use more than one oscillator and therefore <32 polyphony. They thought it was a superb box -- especially for the $$$. Read the review of more complete thoughts and descriptions. Chad
1886.44		MIZZOU::SHERMAN	ECADSR::SHERMAN 227-3299, 223-3326	`Fri Jul 14 1989 11:55`	4
	Don't have the review handy, but I thought KEYBOARD indicated that they thought the G-chip was on board? Steve
1886.45	not in E-III	NORGE::CHAD	Ich glaube Ich t�te Ich h�tte	`Fri Jul 14 1989 12:11`	4
	The G-chip is on board the Proteus. The note from USENET says it is not in the E-III. Chad
1886.46	The Power of the Pen	CARP::PROPOSALS		`Fri Jul 14 1989 16:45`	22
	re. 42: PHEW!!! IT SOUNDS LIKE THIS GUY IS HOT!!$@#%!! Seriously, I think I can see Marco Alpert's point. Those of you familiar with my humble impressions on the PROTEUS (see .25 and .31) know that I am not convinced it will bring world peace or cure cancer. However, whenever I have called Emu for info or specs they have been extremely helpful and friendly. As someone who sells for DEC, I know what he is reacting to when he refers to "misleading information", and how damaging it can be. ___ re: .35 WAA! \| \ ________\ <---MIDIbaby Congrats!, mr S. :-) \ / \_____/ o o Clusters, Bill Allen
1886.47	Proteus news - and thanx for the kid kudos	DYO780::SCHAFER	Brad - back in Ohio.	`Wed Jul 26 1989 16:34`	20
	Just to update y'all (no, not on the kid ... the Proteus!)....... Talked to Terry Hardin a few days ago - he's the sales manager for Emu for the US Western region. Proteus is currently shipping, but ONLY to "major market areas". In other words, New York and L.A. in the US. This started in June. The apparent current "silence" is due to Emu's concentration on "foreign major market distribution". Once all these markets receive their initial shipments, mass production will begin. Emu's logic is this: Proteus is very new (and relatively untested) technology. They figured that it would be a lot easier for everyone concerned if they shipped a relatively small number to the "big boys" first, figuring any nasty undiscovered bugs would be flushed out (saving them a massive recall. Believe it or not, the 35,000 order figure that Swan postulated isn't all that far off!). Anyway, the unit will start becoming available en masse beginning in September. The party line is "just be patient - we're working on it". -b
1886.48	NOW...SOON...LATER...NEVER?	LEDDEV::ROSS	shiver me timbres....	`Thu Aug 24 1989 12:38`	14
	ANY new info on these? I called Rhythm City and they just got in 12....of course they were all sold. Other places say they get approx. 4 a week....and noone really wants to say how big their waiting line is....... Yeah, I put down some money on one. 2 weeks or so was the estimate...but hey, sounds contradictory to the data.... Anyone know the 'fastest' place to get one? rr
1886.49	Boeing, McDonnell-Douglas, E-MU...	MUSKIE::ALLEN		`Thu Aug 24 1989 13:10`	9
	Just like the airlines, you need to start swapping "delivery slots" with people... 8-). Does anyone know anything more about the BALDWIN clone of the PROTEUS? Perhaps you can get one of these faster. Clusters, Bill Allen
1886.50	Furniture City	KALLON::EIRIKUR	Hallgr�msson, ACA and CDA Prod. Mgr.	`Thu Aug 24 1989 13:23`	6
	Yeah, the Baldwin version is supposed (latest Keyboard NAMM report) to come in a wood case! It might even be cheaper! (No price info, sorry.) Eirikur
1886.51	errata	DYO780::SCHAFER	Brad - boycott hell.	`Thu Aug 24 1989 15:03`	9
	Wait a minute, folks ... the 'Baldwin' unit is a preset EMAX, NOT a Proteus. It doesn't use the G chip, and it's aimed directly at the home-consumer market (read: the home organ crowd). The Proteus is a hard unit to come by ... and I've had a deposit on one since April. You might want to try Manny's or Sam Ash, who (according to Emu) have very large orders in. Good luck. -b
1886.52	comment	NORGE::CHAD	Ich glaube Ich t�te Ich h�tte	`Thu Aug 24 1989 15:47`	6
	Brad, There are also reports of a Baldwin proteus unit, and it was reportedly seen at NAMM. Chad
1886.53	rumor probably.	DYO780::SCHAFER	Brad - boycott hell.	`Thu Aug 24 1989 18:27`	8
	I asked Terry Hardin (Emu western area sales rep) about this - according to him, that this is NOT based on Proteus technology. It does not use the G-chip (new chip in Proteus), and will be in no way competitive with the Proteus. Any reports to the contrary are (and I quote) patently false. -b
1886.54	looks like I need to eat crow. {caw}	DYO780::SCHAFER	Brad - boycott hell.	`Fri Aug 25 1989 15:41`	43
	RE: .52 Well, Chad - it appears that Emu doesn't always tell the truth. Remember the Dean Swan memo on the Usenet (posted in an earlier reply)? The one that Emu so violently refuted as false and untrue? Well, I've been on the phone today (busting stores with 800 numbers), and guess what? It looks like Emu lied. a) The SM-100 from Baldwin IS a Proteus (according to Baldwin). The only difference is that the SM-100 has a wood-grain case. b) Certain stores are privileged. For example, the three largest keyboard dealers (by volume) in the US are (in order) Sam Ash, Manny's (NYC) and Chuck Levin's (WDC). According to the stores I talked to today, here are the numbers: DEALER PROTEUS SOLD & DELIVERED (and I quote) -------------- ------------------------ Sam Ash over 100 Manny's 130 or more Chuck Levin's 40 to 50 Rhythm City 20 or so Thorobred 20 or more Synthony a couple - they trickle in every now and then According to the fellow at Synthony (who seemed to be pretty knowledgable, BTW), Emu has 20,000 backorders to fill. They produced 100 the last 2 months, are expected to produce 2000 this month, 2500 in Sept., and 3000 in October. In short, the smaller stores are getting screwed. I know a guy at a Baldwin organ franchise around here ... he's trying to find out how long it would take to order the SM-100 and what they're charging. Never trust a sales rep. Come to think of it, the only way you can tell the difference between a dead 'possum on the road and a dead sales rep is that there are skid marks before the 'possum. Grrrr. -b
1886.55	addendum	DYO780::SCHAFER	Brad - boycott hell.	`Fri Aug 25 1989 15:44`	12
	Oh - I might add that, of all the stores I called, only the larger ones are expecting shipments in the next 7-10 days. Example: if you're willing to pay list and to put down a FULL ($995) deposit at Manny's, you might get one of the 30 or so they have coming in. Any of the others listed are backordered by almost twice what they expect to get in shortly (7-10 days). The smaller stores, without exception - have been told not to expect any before mid-October. -b
1886.56	For the impecunious....	KALLON::EIRIKUR	Hallgr�msson, ACA and CDA Prod. Mgr.	`Fri Aug 25 1989 16:19`	8
	If money is tight, and you really need a sampled-sound SGU, and you don't need to program it..... Go to note 1642.15 and think about that card ($60.00) plugged-into a P3 player ($129.00 from Sam Ash). Less than $200.00 for a wide range of sampled instrument sounds. I still want a Proteus, though. Eirikur
1886.57	errata	NORGE::CHAD	Ich glaube Ich t�te Ich h�tte	`Fri Aug 25 1989 16:53`	3
	I think the note said P3 $199 and O3 $129 Chad
1886.58	Why all the fuss?	TILTS::LIBERTINI	I have to hit the LOTTO, soon.	`Fri Sep 15 1989 22:56`	6
	The PROTEUS sucks! I don't think it warrants this much fuss. The display window on it looks like it came from K-MART. I'll wait for some other instrument to come along that has a better library of sounds and that is updatable via disk/card/cartr.
1886.59	De-emulation	WARDER::KENT		`Mon Sep 18 1989 10:16`	13
	I heard a "Proteus" in Geneva on Friday and have to say that I wasn't as whelmed as I was led to believe that I might be. Are we begining to suffer from our own hype here? Sure lots of interesting sounds but no better than most of the opposition. Why all the fuss? Paul.
1886.60	maybe, maybe not	GLORY::SCHAFER	Brad - banished to Michigan.	`Mon Sep 18 1989 10:23`	8
	I think the noise is the combination of size, capabilities, and price. I wouldn't expect to be dazzled by the factory patches - but if the samples and the architecture are what they're hyped to be, the possibilities are quite intriguing. I'll wait till I play one to pass judgement, thanks. -b
1886.61	SGU Sensory Overload	AQUA::ROST	Chickens don't take the day off	`Mon Sep 18 1989 10:27`	24
	In a side issue, in general, I haven't been "wowed" by an SGU for awhile. A recent self-demo of the Kawai K1 was a case in point. I recall being mucho impressed with a factory demo sequence, but when actually at the keys myself, it was pretty ho-hum. I've been more impressed by samplers/sample players, but sample players have an Achille's heel....what if you don't like the available sample set? With a $130 Korg Symphony, it's a moot point but for a $1500 Roland U-20 or a Proteus, it's a big deal. One thing that gets lost in demos...many of these new boxes (Proteus a case in point) have all these programmable features that are unexploited in the factory setups. It seems the manufacturer just wants to put in all the current hot "cliche" sounds and "wow" effects to impress you. I'd rather hear a good french horn emulation than an orchestra hit, the "one-note jam" or four train patches (found on the K1 !!!). Or to put it another way, I'll take the meat and potatoes over the cherries jubilee, please.... Brian Hasn't_heard_Proteus_yet
1886.62	The M3 is < $1K too.	MARLIN::DIORIO	No, I'm not bored...really...Zzzzzzzzzzzzz	`Mon Sep 18 1989 10:55`	11
	>< Note 1886.61 by AQUA::ROST "Chickens don't take the day off" > > -< SGU Sensory Overload >- I'd really like to A/B the Proteus with the Korg M3 rackmount (you know the one--all the sounds of the M1 in 1U, essentially a rackmounted M1 without the sequencer). But first, it would be necessary to actually SEE a Proteus in real life! Mike D
1886.63	not enough simultaneous notes	DYO780::SCHAFER	Brad - boycott hell.	`Tue Sep 19 1989 09:45`	5
	The M3R (in fact, anything in the Korg M-series) would be interesting if it had more than 16 voices. That limitation is my sole reason for not pursuing their gear further. -b
1886.64	Proteus .vs. M3R	TALLIS::PALMER	Colonel Mode	`Wed Oct 04 1989 18:49`	4
	The M3R has 2 megabytes of sample ROM, non-expandable, as opposed to the Proteus and M1R which have 4MB expandable to 8MB. The Proteus has twice the voices, but the Korg units have filters. Pick your poison. I hear that the Proteus XR is out now. The XR has all 8MB of ROM.
1886.65	XR is indeed shipping	GEMVAX::SCHAFER	Brad - banished to Maynard	`Wed Oct 04 1989 19:15`	8
	That's correct - the Proteus XR is being pushed by Emu over the Proteus (more margin, I suppose). List is presumably $1395, since upgrade kits for the Proteus I are around $400-500. Isn't this stupid? They've already made the Proteus obsolete, even though no one can get their hands on one. -b (still waiting for mine)
1886.66		TALLIS::PALMER	Colonel Mode	`Mon Oct 09 1989 14:29`	11
	I've had one on order from Thouroughbred for 3 months now. They called me a few days ago to tell me that the Proteus XR was available. I told them I'd take it instead of the Proteus 1. I was at Wurlie's a couple of days later and asked them about the XR. They said they would be selling for about $1100 and would be available for Christmas. I called Thouroughbred back, realizing they didn't give me a price. They said $1295!!! When I told them about the $1100 price they said they'd give it to me for $1100. Caveat Emptor... Does anyone have a list of the samples on the 2nd ROM?
1886.67	Tell us what it's really like.	TROA01::HITCHMOUGH		`Mon Oct 09 1989 20:25`	6
	re: -1 How's about a review when yo get it fired up. I'd love to hear from someone who's actually GOT one of these things. Ken
1886.68	"So, this is your dog, and this is your wife?"	MUSKIE::ALLEN		`Tue Oct 10 1989 15:39`	10
	re: last few... Are we to understand that the PROTEUS (which has been anxiously awaited since this spring) is still "unavailable", but the PROTEUS XR (which is based on the afore-mentioned "unavailable" PROTEUS) IS "available"? Hmmmmmm.... Clusters, Bill (who's wondering who is in charge of Marketing & Customer Satisfaction at E-mu)
1886.69	still waiting, but a bit more hopeful.	CSOA1::SCHAFER	Brad - boycott hell.	`Tue Oct 10 1989 15:51`	8
	Yeah, Bill - it's a crock. At least Emu has started to advertise the Proteus in Keyboard now (see November issue, page 68). Last line reads "To hear the [Proteus], simply visit your local E-mu dealer". Right. I've got something in the works in getting one in the next few weeks. If it pans out, I'll be posting details. -b
1886.70	No kiddin'...	WEFXEM::COTE	No, Kelly. I said wits...	`Tue Oct 10 1989 15:59`	5
	Proteus unavailable??? I've a friend who's had one in their rack for over a month... Edd
1886.71	: - )	MUSKIE::ALLEN		`Tue Oct 10 1989 16:23`	6
	re .70: So do I; maybe you know him. His name is Mr. Center, Guy Center. (I think "Guy" is short for "Guitar") Bill (I know...it's terrible)
1886.72	Nice box	WEFXEM::COTE	No, Kelly. I said wits...	`Thu Oct 19 1989 09:28`	34
	...had one set up in my rack for about an hour. All I had a chance to do was run thru the presets and play around a little with the 'preformances' or whatever they're called in E-mu-esque... First I ran the demo sequence, which quite capably displays the capabilites of the machine. I thought it was weak in the drum dept., but most other things were quite nice. Some of the basses were real interesting. Half the keyboard was straight ahead electric bass and the other half was harmonics. Definitely the way to get some interesting effects. Saxaphones sounded, well, static. Like every other sax sample I've heard. Learning how to articulate from the keyboard can undoubtedly make them more convincing, but I didn't have time. A "12 string guitar" was great! There are lots of D-50ish breathy choir samples. More than I think is necessary, but, hey, they're apparently hot now. Actually, one of them worked real well on Suzanne Ciani's "Adagio". There are TONS of drums and assorted percussion thingies. Also alot of crap. We all need another jet, right? The UI looks horrendous, but after working with my TX81Zs I'm used to that type of thing. There were some pianos I really liked. (Caveat- don't take that as meaning they sounded 'real'. It simply means I liked the sound...) All in all, a real nice box. Unbolting it hurt. I want one...grrrrr.... Edd
1886.73	My Proteus hath come.	TALLIS::PALMER	Colonel Mode	`Mon Dec 11 1989 13:27`	9
	I finally got my Proteus/1 XR last Friday. It's wonderful! Incredibly quiet. Thouroughbred Music was incorrect when they said that the XR has the full 8 MB of sample ROM. The 2nd 4 MB won't be available until early next year. The only difference between the regular Proteus and the XR is that the original has only 64 user modifyable presets whereas the XR has 256. The extra sample ROM will be about $500 and is mostly orchestral. Chris
1886.74	Restoring factory patches?	INFACT::BOLENBAUGH	What project?	`Tue Dec 19 1989 18:35`	10
	Mine came in last week, too. The sound is outstanding! It's my first synth, so I've been listening to the factory patches and studying the editing capabilities. It even makes Hannon interesting. In addition to 128 ROM patches it comes with 64 patches in RAM, many of which are very nice. I can't find a command to restore the RAM patches to their factory settings once they've been edited, other than jump starting it from a virgin Proteus. I guess I'll write them down on patch sheets before I save any edits. But if someone learns that command, I'd love to know it.
1886.75	finally {whew!}	DYO780::SCHAFER	Brad - boycott hell.	`Tue Jan 02 1990 10:09`	4
	Believe it or not, mine is to arrive tomorrow (assuming UPS doesn't screw up). Detail review forthcoming ... -b
1886.76	" ? "	CARP::ALLEN		`Tue Jan 02 1990 14:19`	30
	re .75 Brad, Your what? (Sorry...just kidding :-) Looking forward to your impressions) Bill
1886.77	Can someone give me a demo?	DREGS::BLICKSTEIN	Conliberative	`Tue Jan 02 1990 14:45`	9
	Is there anyone in the Nashua, NH area who can give me a demo (and sit patiently while I do the obligatory tryout of each and every patch)? None of the local music stores seem to carry the line and I just have been very frustrated trying to demo things in Boston music stores (too noisey, pushy salesman, etc.) db
1886.78	Proteus offering	TALLIS::PALMER	Colonel Mode	`Tue Jan 02 1990 15:02`	5
	I live in Burlington, MA which is 30 minutes from Nashua. You're welcome to examine mine... Chris Palmer DTN 226-6667
1886.79	Bill Allen, eat your heart out (nyuk nyuk)	DYO780::SCHAFER	Brad - boycott hell.	`Thu Jan 04 1990 11:06`	84
	Well, it's like this ... I got it yesterday afternoon. I am, in a word, thrilled. The thing is about the size of a Quadraverb or MIDIverb II, perhaps a bit deeper, but not weighing as much. The case seems to be high-impact plastic (colored smoke/colonial gray) covering a metal frame & front panel. Controls are very sparse - there's a power push-button switch on the front, NO WALL BUG (!!!), 3 or 4 Korg-type rounded buttons on the front various menus/functions, a detent-style rotary data pot (feels very cheesey) and a normal master volume pot. +--------------------------------------------------------------------+ \| pwr Master Edit Enter = 2 x 16 LCD = Cursor DATA VOLUME \| +--------------------------------------------------------------------+ ^---pots---^ USER HINT: if you're lucky enough to find one in a music store and want to listen to the demo sequence (which is really quite demonstrative of the machine's abilities), do the following: o push the MASTER button o spin DATA knob clockwise until you reach the end of that menu tree o push the CURSOR button (the 'S' in START will be underlined) o push ENTER - the sequence will start The Keyboard review just about sums up all the obvious functionality, window display, etc, so I won't go into that. I will comment a bit on the sounds. I went thru every preset on the unit last night (192 out of 256 loaded on the XR, 127 in ROM, 383 total). The Proteus XR does NOT have the sample ROM expansion, but rather expanded RAM (thus XR). Sample ROM is rumored to be around $495 list, contains mostly orchestral samples, and will be available sometime this summer (sure). I drove the Proteus with a a KX5 thru my home stereo, not having time to wire into the rack yet, so the sounds may have been colored somewhat (using Advent utility speakers). Be that as it may, even the sound FX stuff (which is usually a big yawn with me) blew me away. I don't think there is a useless preset in the machine. The presets range from mildly interesting to stunning. L/A sounds blow away anything I've every heard from a D50. The highs are INCREDIBLE. The piano is pretty good, but not quite as expressive as the Kurzweil pianos. Nevertheless, they are very good, and I suspect would mix better than the Kurzweil for ensemble or rock work. What I heard of the drum kits was excellent. Since a KX5 has a limited key range, I didn't get to play with things all that much. Latin percussion is great. The cymbals aren't nearly as bad as Keyboard made them out to be, although you can hear some looping if you listen very close. In tandem with my HR16, I think I'll be very happy. Guitars are the best I've ever heard. Strings are great. Vibes are great. The organs are excellent (as is the Leslie effect - much better than the Kurzweil Leslie). Brass is killer. There's even an orchestra hit (yawn). From a programmer's perspective, the thing is incredibly flexible. It's closer to a wavetable synth that it is to a sample-player. Even the manual isn't bad. Wish I could say more, but I don't really understand the unit yet. I'll list the actual samples some other time. For now, all I can say is that it was DEFINITELY worth the wait. There is absolutely no noise in any of the samples, and the selection (well over 100 samples and waves) is quite comprehensive, almost more than anyone could ask for. If anyone is interested, I can post a detailed review later. In the meantime, I think the best compliment was from my wife, who walked in as the demo sequence was playing a guitar/sax thing. She asked, "What (Phil) Keaggy record is that?." If you've ever heard Phil Keaggy, you know what I mean. -b (all smiles now)
1886.80	Just in time.	TROA01::HITCHMOUGH		`Thu Jan 04 1990 12:13`	13
	Well thanks a lot Brad! You've just revitalised my flagging interest and prevented me from making a big mistake. I was about to pick up a U220 instead. Not that the 220 is a bad machine, but I suppose a year or more of waiting makes your brain go soft. The U.I. sounds a bit sparse. After getting used to the S-330 monitor, something withthe complexity of the Proteus sounds like it will be a real learning experience. Ken
1886.81	Proteus editors abound	DYO780::SCHAFER	Brad - boycott hell.	`Thu Jan 04 1990 14:07`	16
	Interestingly enough, there are several companies that have very fine editors out for the Proteus. Opcode comes to mind as being one of the MAC-based editors. For what it's worth, the Proteus/1 (standard Proteus) should be going for around $795 ... the Proteus/1 XR (extended RAM) should go for around $1075. I think Emu is finally starting to ship en masse. I got mine from ProFound Sound, but I know that Music City (Lafayette, LA - phone 800-673-0565, ask for Ted) is supposed to be getting some in "real soon now". I intend to get an ST-based editor one of these days. -b
1886.82	Proteus vs. Kurzweil 1000PX	DYO780::SCHAFER	Brad - boycott hell.	`Tue Jan 09 1990 11:29`	275
	Some of you might be interested in this, especially those who have heard a Kurzweil 1000 series. I have a 1000PX (without the additional soundblocks) and the Proteus/1 XR. I finally wired the Proteus into the rack the other night and did A/B comparisons between Proteus and the Kurzweil and Roland MKS70 modules. You might be interested to know that I'll be keeping the Kurzweil for the pianos and organs (at least in the short term). Yes, it's that much better. An interesting note about Proteus operation - you can adjust the contrast of the display to best fit your light/viewing angle. Nice touch. Hope the review is useful. -b A friend (who is a music major in French horn and is also fluent in violin and piano) helped me in doing listening tests. We listened thru Advent Utility cabinets (relatively flat), "junk" Emerson stereo speakers (for boom-box effect), and Signet TK22 headphones. All instruments were mixed thru a Roland M160 mixer, with no EQ and no effects. PIANO: Proteus, Kurzweil, ESQ-1 For this comparison, I also had an ESQ1 for the day that had the ACGRD1 patch (discussed earlier in this conference), the best pianos from Vahala and Ensoniq, and the famed Voice Crystal piano. We used all the Proteus pianos that were resident (primarily 000 Stereo Grand, 048 Grand Piano and 112 Winston Grand), and two Kurzweil pianos (001 Grand and 017 Stereo Extended Piano). To our ears, the best ESQ pianos were the Voice Crystal set STEIN and WAY (up 1 octave from STEIN). We thought the ESQ pianos sounded good, until we played the Proteus. The Proteus high harmonics made the ESQ sound very "thuddy"; and the Proteus attacks were much more crisp. Pianos tended to be brighter in the Proteus, and seemed to lack a great deal of tone color response to velocity. Still, superior to ESQ. Then we played the Kurzweil. There is no comparison, side by side. The Kurzweil smokes the Proteus in its tracks. Much more response to velocity, much more character in the tone (movement within the sample). Proteus isn't even in the same league. Rating: Kurzweil (by far), Proteus, ESQ EFFECT PIANOS: Proteus, Kurzweil Effect pianos are FM, electric, or processed type pianos. The effected pianos on the Kurzweil (Chorused Piano, NewAge Piano) can be duplicated to some degree on the Proteus, specifically the chorusing (use the MOD wheel). The NewAge piano could be programmed quite easily. Neither unit has a good "DX7 Rhodes" - in fact, the stock electric piano patches in both units (in a word) stink. There is a Proteus preset called "FM Style Piano" that is a good approximation of an FM acoustic piano, and "PianoBell" could pass (as far as the presets go). It was our opinion that someone simply didn't bother to program one, since there are already a millions DX7s floating around. Rating: toss up BASSES: Proteus, Kurzweil, Roland Super-JX (MKS70) The Proteus has no string bass sample, and the "synthesized" one is pretty lame (exists only in a split with a piano). The Kurzweil, on the other hand, has an excellent sampled acoustic bass. Kurzweil wins the acoustic bass battle. The story is just the opposite with electric bass. The Protues has many different types of electric bass samples, while Kurzweil's are all fabricated. Proteus has samples ranging from heavy and hammered (finger-popped) bass to tone that are "rounder". Our opinion was that the bass could benefit from a boost in mid-low EQ, but that's probably because the highs on the machine are SO clean. Even the MKS had a better electric bass than the Kurzweil. Synth bass was real interesting. The Proteus has a preset called "MiniMoog Bass" that sounded great - until we played the same bass line on the MKS70 using stock patch POLY SYNTH. You just can't sample analog "fat". Rating: Proteus (elec & overall), MKS (synth), Kurzweil (acou) STRINGS: Proteus, Kurzweil, MKS70, Oberheim OBXa Strings are very subjective. Some like warm, full sounds, some like thin, transparent sounds, some like synthesized better than the real thing. The tendenc seemed to be that Kurzweil strings were warmer (ie, thicker midrange and more movement). The Proteus strings were very clean; _Keyboard_ wasn't exaggerating when they wrote that you could hear the "rosin on the bow". The best synthesized strings were Oberheim, MKS, Proteus and Kurzweil, respectively - although Oberheim loses out big when it comes to velocity. Still, that's saying something for an almost 10 year old synth. Overall, we preferred the Proteus strings for two reasons: the presence of all those beautiful highs, and the LACK of a range limitation (the Kurzweil samples only go to certain keys and stop). Believe it or not, Proteus actually was cleaner in the high end than the analog machines. The Oberheim and MKS were great for synthesized strings, but we found that they worked better as pads, and not as string sections. Rating: Proteus, Kurzweil, tie MKS/Oberheim BRASS: Protues, Kurzweil, MKS70, OBXa To get to the point, the Proteus blew all others away. Trumpets, French horns, orchestra hits, even a brass "fall" set. You could hear the lip noise, and the highs were great. The French horn section is huge, and the trombones sound like real trombones - we had a lot of fun with pitch bend on these patches. We all know about the Kurzweil 1000PX trumpet (yawn). No character, and no beef. The MKS70 brass (custom) patches were better than the Kurzweil, in our opinion. We both felt that the Oberheim would have probably been the best synth brass machine had it responded to velocity. Rating: Proteus (by far), MKS, Kurzweil, Oberheim CHOIR/VOCAL: Proteus, Kurzweil Again, this is quite subjective. If you're given to the current trend toward transparency, the Proteus is the clear winner. If you're more inclined to like movement within a choir sample, and like a fuller range, the Kurzweil is probably superior. Proteus uses samples of a female choir only - Kurzweil uses a full choir to get its sample. Proteus is not limited to sample range, Kurzweil is. Proteus has much more "static" samples (no movement unless introduced via modulation). Kurzweil has movement built into the samples. The Proteus has all those gorgeous highs (can you tell yet that we liked highs?), the Kurzweil does not. The Kurzweil is also limited to a single choir sample (with variations). The Proteus has several choir samples, and they are ALL excellent. Much more variety with the Proteus. Here's the bottom line - with modulation, you can get the Proteus to sound very similar to the Kurzweil, but you can't get the Kurzweil to sound like the Proteus at all. Rating: Proteus, Kurzweil WINDS: Proteus, Kurzweil Here's where the Proteus shines. The Kurzweil has one good clarinet sample in it, but it's limited by sample range. The Proteus has EXCELLENT alto and tenor sax samples (probably the best I've heard from any machines I've ever played, including samplers), very good reed patches (at least as good as the Kurzweil, IMO), and a flute patch that is tremendous. An aside - I don't know what Keyboard was whining about when they griped about a metallic "thump" on the front of the sample - we heard nothing of the sort. Rating: Proteus (by far), Kurzweil PERCUSSION: Proteus, HR16 This was kind of an off-the-cuff comparison of the Proteus stuff with the HR16. It was more of an afterthought, and not really a "nit for nit" comparison. Still, for what it's worth ... The HR16 samples are much more "realistic", in terms of acoustic drums. The Proteus samples tend to sound a slight bit compressed (which, of course, makes them punchier). The Proteus has a much greater variety of drum samples, including some excellent Latin percussion. Samples include: 3 kicks, 3 snares, 10" & 14" toms, hihat (2 closed, 2 open), ride cymbal, "rude crash" (great attack, lousy sustain/tone), timbale, guiro, conga, claves, agogo bell, woodblock, timable, cabasa, 2 FX sets, "metal", NO VIBRASLAP. &*} Timbales and such have many variations (closed/open slap, strike, rimshot, etc) and several tunings per instrument. Kicks and snares sound to me to be more "real world" than the HR samples, although the HR can be processed to sound very similar. The greatest disappointments were the cymbal samples. The rude crash is only useful (to my ears) when used in combination with the HR16 crash - I prefer the attack, but the sustain characteristics are nasty and the tone is like no crash I've ever heard. In short, I won't be getting rid of my HR16, but I'll be augmenting it somewhat. SYNTHESIZED: Proteus, Kurzweil, MKS70, OBXa Since the Kurzweil has nothing to offer in this area, we'll just leave it out. The Proteus has 21 harmonic waveform samples, 20 single cycle waveforms, and 12 multi-cycle waveforms (in addition to 70 actual samples of instruments). It's possible to stack up to 8 "channels" (oscillators) on one sounding note as well (16 if you take into account the way Emu does "chorusing"). Given this, we weren't surprised at the number of hot "currently happening" sounds that were available. What we were blown away by was the quality of those sounds. For example, patches called "Phantasia, Empyrean, White Veil, Dark World, and Dune" (which, if I recollect, are ripoffs of hip FM and L/A type patches) sound better on the Proteus than on the original instruments. I doubt that there will be a synth that comes out in the near term that Proteus won't be able to replicate almost perfectly. For standard analog synth stuff, the Proteus sounds thin. The Oberheim and MKS70 are both much more full in terms of tone quality and movement within a patch. The Proteus does good approximations, but for "get out front and cook" leads, the real analog boys win. Rating: Proteus (overall), MKS/Oberheim VIBES: Proteus, Kurzweil I wasn't sure where to put this, so I made it a class by itself. The Kurzweil vibes have a bit more midrange, but the Proteus has no sample range restrictions. The Proteus has a bit more "hammer" in the attack, presumably because of the extended high harmonics. I personally preferred the Kurzweil, my friend preferred the Proteus. ORGANS: Proteus, Kurzweil The Kurzweil organs were sonically superior to the Proteus, although I'm not sure if this is an actual shortfall of the Proteus or simply a lack of programming. The one organ that does exist on the Proteus has a much more responsive Leslie effect thant does the Kurzweil, but the Kurzweil samples are very clean and distinct. Rating: Kurzweil, Proteus OTHERS: Proteus This category is for sounds specific to the Proteus. The guitars are incredible. I can't distinguish the acoustic guitar from a real recorded guitar. All the electrics are excellent, and every guitar is usable (except for maybe the "space backward guitar"). The Ethnic instruments (kyoto, balinesia, shamisen) are okay, I guess ... but I'm not a good judge, since I'm not really into that type of sound. COMBINATIONS: Proteus, Kurzweil The combinations we reviewed were piano/strings, layered horn section, and layered string section. The Proteus was superior in every instance, which was kind of strange, since the Kurzweil piano was so much better than the Proteus. We spent almost 20 minutes comparing the piano/string combos between the two, and ended up choosing the Proteus almost every time. We would have expected the Kurzweil given its superior piano and comparable strings. After some thinking, I decided that Karl Moeller was correct when he said that the Kurzweil "loses edge" when play multiple layers or instruments. This was obviously the case here, as the Proteus piano was very clean and the strings incredible. The G-chip must have one heckuva processor. Rating: Proteus, Kurzweil
1886.83	INteresting	NORGE::CHAD	Ich glaube Ich t�te Ich h�tte	`Tue Jan 09 1990 12:12`	7
	Interesting things in the study. I haven't heard the Proteus yet. I really like the Baritone Horn on the Kurzweil. And the Kurzweil trumpet sounds good when played in ensemble but lacks in the solo area IMHO. Chad
1886.84	The best saxes we've ever heard.	PROSE::DIORIO	No, I'm not bored...really...Zzzzzzzzzzzzz	`Tue Jan 09 1990 16:01`	15
	re .82 Too bad we couldn't compare the Proteus' brass and sax sounds to those found in the Kurzweil 1000 HX Horn Expander. The Kurzweil's sax sounds are absolutely the best I've ever heard (I noticed you said the same thing about the Proteus' saxes). I compared the Kurzweil's tenor saxes to those found in Ensoniq's VFX-SD, and it's no contest. Kurzweil eats the VFX's lunch. Same with the tenor saxes in the M1, although I would say the M1's tenor sax is noticeably better than the VFX's. I can't really compare alto saxes, because my stock HX doesn't have altos (I'm seriously considering getting the HXA soundblock to get some altos and a soprano !, among other things. If the altos, etc. are as good as the tenors in the stock HX, the HXA soundblock will be a bargain, even at $240). IMHO, of course. Mike D
1886.85	synth-o-rama?	DYO780::SCHAFER	Brad - boycott hell.	`Tue Jan 09 1990 16:53`	13
	RE: .84 (Mike ... "too bad we couldn't compare ...") Indeed. In fact, it may be high time for a COMMUSIC synth-o-rama (not unlike the reverb-o-rama of yesteryear fame). I've heard saxes on the S550, EPS, M1, and other non-sampler/wavetable synths, and can say without hesitation that the Proteus eats them for lunch. Anyone willing to do a Proteus -> 1000HX comparison? I would, but I live hundreds of miles from the nearest HX. -b
1886.86	Ahem...we beg to differ."	MUSKIE::ALLEN		`Tue Jan 09 1990 18:00`	16
	re .82 Thanks, Brad (& company) for a great review of the PROTEUS. Your comments were especially helpful to those prospective purchasers of the E-mu wunderkind (no, I am NOT one of them 8-( ). Even for a 1000PX owner like yours truly, it is fascinating to see specifically which sounds match-up well and which were no contest. One little nit; you indicated that the KURZWEIL had nothing to offer in the "SYNTHESIZED" area. Is that really true? Doesn't the 1000PX have a set of raw (emphasize this word please) waveforms which can be combined into synthesized tones? Clusters, Bill Allen
1886.87		MANFUL::ROBERT	Tom rOss Robert - The DeLorean Kid!	`Tue Jan 09 1990 19:48`	42
	I too want to thank you brad, and your friend, for a comprehensive review/ comparison. I came real close to buying a 1000PX a few weeks ago but decided to hold off. Now I'm glad I did. I must admit, the Piano hurt, I was hoping to get one of the "best" pianos which is why I looked at the 1000PX, and it is one of the "best". Although the Proteus also has a very good piano, I was not blown away and I got a little dissapointed. But when I heard the rest of the sounds I completely turned around! Buying the Kurzweil at that point just for the piano sound would have been like following the exception instead of the rule. (although that sometimes has it's place, am I at DEC?) Besides, the Proteus definitely holds it own in the piano area and there plenty of other piano sources available. I was recently down at Wurlys in Framingham. They have a Proteus 1/XR on top of a Korg M3R. I compared the two, definitely the Proteus, although the Korg is also a very nice unit and is $100 less. (They're asking $1100 for the Proteus, and they're still filling back orders) However, just as I was sold on the Proteus, I turned around and bumped into a Roland U-20. The store was getting ready to close, so I didn't have a lot of time to tinker. But I heard the demo, played some patches, and asked a few questions. I'm definetly going to check it out more before I decide on the Proteus. The latest issue of Keyboard gave the U-20 a good=great review. One main thing they picked out right away (for you 110 owners) is that the U20 is +quiet+. Since I didn't have time to go through the sounds, I can't really compare them to the Proteus. Although I'll say they're worth going back to compare to! What the U-20 has going for it though is two ROM card slots, compatable with the available 110 library, and one program card slot. It also has onboard effects, and for $200 more than the Proteus ($1300), you get a semi-decent 61 key MIDI controller! They also had the U-220, but I didn't get a quote. The U-220 is basically the U-20 without the keyboard, but it also doesn't have the program card slot, and only has 64 presets?!? I didn't mean to do apples/oranges (module/keyboard) but I happen to need a MIDI controller as well. FWIW. -Tom
1886.88	just some info...	MIDI::DAN	All things are possible...	`Wed Jan 10 1990 08:43`	11
	Tom, >and for $200 more than the Proteus ($1300), you get a semi-decent >61 key MIDI controller! If you don't mind doing mailorder (and you decide you like the U20), I picked up my U20 less than a month ago from Caruso's in CT for $1208 (including shipping). See the 'Dealers' note (9?) for their phone. Dan
1886.89	replies, comments, flaming opinions &*}	DYO780::SCHAFER	Brad - boycott hell.	`Wed Jan 10 1990 10:22`	57
	RE: Bill (Kurzweil has synthesized waves) Perhaps it's just my lack of programming ability, but I think the Kurzweil's "waves" are a waste of sample memory. They just don't have the variety or the sound quality necessary for serious programming. In fact, if the Kurzweil offered only these waves (and not the instruments), I'd rather have my Oberheim OB-Xa. Given the lack of independent outs, poor SYSEX implementation, lousy manual, stupid features (like having to turn off unwanted channels at every power-up), and lack of decent filtering capabilities, I don't consider the Kurzweil to be a "synthesizer" at all. But it is a great sample player. But that's just my opinion. RE: Kurzweil vs. Proteus Right now, I'm in the process of trying to decide whether or not the P330 is a reasonable facsimile of a piano (when compared with the Kurzweil). I'd like to get back two rack spaces ... besides, the Kurzweil is electrically a very noisy unit (lots of noise). I hate to keep the thing just for the piano and the organs. To be totally fair, though, combining the Kurzweil and Proteus choirs is AWESOME (sorry for the valley girl talk, guys). I also like combining the string sections and the pianos for a bit of extra texture. RE: Tom, Dan (M3R, U220, etc) The M3R is only an 8-voice unit ... not sure that it compares with the Proteus. If it sounds anything like the M1, the Proteus fidelity blows it away. Have I said yet that the highs are incredible? If you want to avoid the music store noise, you can plug your favorite set of headphones into the left main audio out - Proteus will drive them in stereo. For what it's worth ... I don't know much about the U220, but given the brain-damaged architectures of most Roland gear (sorry, len), I don't think I'd want one. I was not impressed with the U110 at all, excluding the noise. No personal reflection, of course ... but I've never been all that impressed with the U-series. It is nice to have the onboard effects, I suppose. I know that the Proteus does not have ROM card slots or some way to "change sample memory" ... but Emu is coming out with an additional 4 Mb of samples ... and the ones currently in the machine are very, very good. Besides, given that this beastie is called PROTEUS/1, it wouldn't surprise me to see a Proteus/2 that incorporates even more features than the /1. Just guessing. -b
1886.90	It's Amazing what a Mess You Can Make with 1s and 0s!	DRUMS::FEHSKENS		`Wed Jan 10 1990 10:31`	14
	re .89 on recent Roland architectures - no offense taken Brad, I'm inclined to agree. Roland's machines are becoming increasingly ad hoc. Ultimately, they deliver, but the Super Jupiter is an incredibly straightforward machine compared to the D-series synths, and so far I've managed to avoid the U-series stuff. The R-8, while a fabulous (and in most respects unsurpassed) drum machine, is one of the most baroque contrivances ever to have sprung from the mind of man. It's ironic, but it seems that the most "logical" designers will prove to have been the analog guys... len (who wishes he had the time to show them how to do it right).
1886.91	irrelevant, off topic, and maybe stupid, but ...	DYO780::SCHAFER	Brad - boycott hell.	`Wed Jan 10 1990 11:07`	3
	Maybe we oughta start DECMS designs and build our own ... -b
1886.92	Not so silly...	LOOKUP::ADSUPPORT		`Wed Jan 10 1990 11:22`	11
	I'm already designing my own software based component synthesizer (on paper--I'm nowhere near actually undertaking a job like this). It's based mostly on everything everyone is griping about--not enough voices, not enough flexibility, the sounds are limited because you can't route them here... etc. Maybe if I design it someone can build it. :77 --mikie--
1886.93	Well Along	DRUMS::FEHSKENS		`Wed Jan 10 1990 11:39`	11
	I've also got a fairly well worked out design for a "soft" modular synth based on a collection of high speed modules that "compute" digitally but are really simulating analog modules. It's based on a set of standardized data types that can be routed between modules. It's a sort of "programmable architecture" machine. It's pretty clearly beyond the means of today's technology (at least in an affordable implementation), but wait a few years... len.
1886.94	Differences between Proteus 1 and XR	NWACES::PHILLIPS		`Wed Jan 10 1990 12:30`	11
	Can someone clear up what the differences between the Proteus1 and the Proteus XR are ? Is the XR just an expanded RAM unit. Someone told me it had editing capabilities that the Proteus 1 does not have. Can a Proteus 1 be expanded to an XR? So I don't have to shell out the extra $300 for XR now. Thanks Errol (haven'nt hear the Proteus as yet; but hoping to buy one)
1886.95	why not???	NORGE::CHAD	Ich glaube Ich t�te Ich h�tte	`Wed Jan 10 1990 15:32`	17
	RE: "soft" modular synth We probably have the technology now but it would probably cost more than an individual could afford. I mean, a 25mhz or higher Motorola 56001 DSP or two or three (I heard the new Peavey has 3 of these chips) for the sound data manipulation and some risc chip (M88000 or so) or a fast chip like 68040 for general data and interfacing and whatnot ($1000 probably for the chips??) and you would have a lot of horsepower. Some DAC (probably the big money in the whole thing) and that'd be it. I think the software is the hard part... chad
1886.96	back to the subject	DYO780::SCHAFER	Brad - boycott hell.	`Wed Jan 10 1990 15:52`	27
	Sorry I started on the "let's build a synth" tack in this topic. I'm interested enough, though, to encourage Len to start a new topic and post some ideas. Errol, as far as I can tell, the Proteus XR is more than just an extended RAM. Here's how memory is split: PROTEUS XR -------- ------- 0-63 ROM 0-255 RAM 64-127 RAM 256-383 ROM 128-193 ROM Obviously, SYSEX dumps are different. In fact, ALL SYSEX has changed with XR. XR supports several new commands, and current Proteus computer products will NOT work with XR. OpCode estimates that their Proteus editor (that works with the XR) will be available around Feb 1. I can't imagine an upgrade not being available, but one never knows. If you need details, try giving Emu a call - they're in the 408 area code, but I don't remember their number right off. Perhaps the most important point - they're not building anything but XRs right now (according to 3 different dealers). -b
1886.97	To hack, perhaps to stackdump, that is the question	GUESS::YERAZUNIS	This is _intense_!	`Wed Jan 10 1990 16:51`	5
	Software? No problem!! :-) :-) :-) (anybody got a ROM burner? Seriously!) -Bill
1886.98	Card slots, added benny, or not?	MANFUL::ROBERT	Tom rOss Robert - The DeLorean Kid!	`Wed Jan 10 1990 19:06`	44
	re: .88- Thanks for the tip Dan. I also have a lead on a used one. In fact I'm going over to check it out tomorrow evening. (Thanks Andy) (BTW, thank you Chris for letting me check out your Proteus last Friday) re: .89- Brad, the M3R has 16 voices, and like the Roland, has a ROM slot and a RAM slot, it also has the two built-in stereo digital effects, and is cheaper. Granted, the Proteus sounds better, I thought the added bennys of the M3R made it worth checking out. Aside from all that, I've mentioned twice now units offering the ROM and RAM cards. When it comes down to it, are the Cards slots a plus? That is, the Proteus comes with 4 Meg of sample ROM, the U-220 comes with 3. However the U-220 has two ROM slots, each which hold 1/2 Meg. So that's a total of 4 Meg for the U-220 as well. (Granted, you have to buy the 2 ROM cards) So they both have 4 Meg instantly accessible ROM. Now comes expansion time. The Proteus will offer another 4 Meg for around $500. The U-220 offers additional ROM cards. At $75 a card, and counting the 2 above, you'd need a total of 10 cards to get the total of the Proteus' 8 Megs. So that's $750, or $250 more. But since the U-220 itself goes for around $300 less than the Proteus, it more or less cancels out. So let's say for all practical purposes they cost the same for the same amount of ROM samples. (8 Meg) The obvious advantage the Proteus has is that they're all still instantly available, while the U-220 can only accesss 4 Meg at a shot. On the other hand, when you get the upgrade for the Proteus you're stuck with whatever 4 Megs of samples E-mu decided to put on there. At least with Roland, you have a library of cards from which YOU can choose from. You can buy only the ones that are most worth it to you. If you only need a few extra sounds, you can just buy a couple cards for $150 instead putting out the whole $500 for the Proteus. Likewise, if you need more than 8 Megs, you can purchase additional ROM cards. They both have roughly the same amount of available voices (P-> 32, U-> 30), and let's forget for the moment any difference in sound quality and the U-220's built in effects. Which is the better way to go, more internal ROM or the availability of ROM cards?? Comments? -Tom
1886.99	Cards Are Limited, Too	AQUA::ROST	Everyone loves those dead presidents	`Wed Jan 10 1990 22:07`	29
	Re: .98 The card thing is a mixed blessing. Sample players are dependent on ROM samples (one exception, that Oberheim thing with the two disk drives) and since making ROM cards can get expensive and may be restricted by the manufacturer (can you say Nintendo?) the availability of cards may be poor. Witness the Korg O3/P3 saga documented in note 1642 about trying to get ROM cards. If third party developers are allowed to make cards, then having card slots can be a big deal, but I doubt it's going to happen. How the heck is a third party company going to get the sampling hardware necessary to blow new cards? Look at Korg, the M1 and O3/P3 (and for all I know, the DS-8) cards are mechanically identical but they are electrically (data) incompatible. Until someone comes up with a standard card format (using a a variation on MIDI sample dump standard?) it's going to be tough for any third parties to get into the act. One thing that's worth watching: the new Korg T series synths allow reloading of the wavetables, not only by ROM card (as in the M1) but also via the disk drive, using MIDI sample dump standard. If this feature gets third party support (I would expect it to) we'll see more machines like that in the future. As for right now, my feeling based on what I've seen in the market so far: Base your purchase on the sounds you can get today for a sample player, whether on-board or with existing cards. Brian
1886.100	Specific questions about Proteus	DREGS::BLICKSTEIN	Conliberative	`Thu Jan 11 1990 11:35`	57
	I'm looking to replace my MT-32 with something like a Proteus. I'm using the MT-32 mainly for horse-power (when I need lots of voices) and as a drum machine. But I've grown really frustrated with the relatively unrealistic sound quality. It also sounds extremely thin. The D-110 is a bit cleaner, but still doesn't knock me out enough to want to upgrade. A couple of questions about the Proteus: o Does it have separate outputs? I'm creating backing sequences (strings, brass, vocals, percussion, etc.) for my trio. My most minimal need for a separate output is rather trivial. I need one output to be generating a click track that feeds into the monitors (or the drummer's headphones) but not the house mix. My guess is that would be trivial with the Proteus but I take nothing for granted. Can this be done? o It sounds like this thing has a lot of different presets. My sequencer can only send program changes for 128 different programs. If the Proteus has (or it would seem will have) more than 128, how does one access all those programs via MIDI? o Are the drums listed in Brad's review all that are available? How are the crashes and rides (these days, cymbals seem to be only prominent weaknesses in most high quality devices). o Does it have any builtin effects. o If some sounds are stereo: + Is there a mono override (like putting in only one plug gives you a mono mix) + Are the separate outputs stereo pairs? (How many?) o I hear this thing has 32 voices, each of which can play two samples (x-fade, unison, whatever). The question is, do I REALLY have 32 voices or is this more of the same kind of fraud that Roland pulls with "partials". That is, are there many programs where one note actually causes two or more voices to use. What's the "realistic" polyphony on this thing? (My MT-32 says 32 voices, but it's not realistic to expect to be able to play more than 10-12 since almost everything requires 2-3 voices). db
1886.101	What about pads	DREGS::BLICKSTEIN	Conliberative	`Thu Jan 11 1990 11:39`	13
	One more question. Brad's review was EXTREMELY helpful to me, but one thing I'm interested in that wasn't mentioned is "pad" type sounds. Being that I'll be using it to to fill out the sound of my trio, I'm very interested in having a variety of pads (which I use on almost every song). The MT-32 has only one pad that I find generally useable (both for quality and appropriateness) and it bothers me that it causes a lot of tunes to sound too much alike sound-wise. db
1886.102	whew. hope I got 'em all.	DYO780::SCHAFER	Brad - boycott hell.	`Thu Jan 11 1990 12:21`	110
	RE: Dave's questions (.100, .101) >separate outputs Proteus has 6 outputs, configured as 3 stereo pairs labelled MAIN, SUB1 and SUB2. The signal routings are VERY flexible ... you can use the subs as stereo FX sends/returns (using tip-ring-sleeve split to 2 �" pin connections). The MAIN LEFT channel can be used for stereo output to a board or to headphones (again using TRS). It's somewhat complex to describe; suffice it to say that you can definitely do what you want and need to do. As far as assigning outs, that is also flexible. You can route a signal to a stereo pair, or to one channel. For your "click", you could tell it to send patch X to SUB2 LEFT only. Is that what you wanted? >sequencer supports only 128 patches As does my KX76 (I thought the MIDI spec limited patches to 0-127). Anyway, it's moot, since the Proteus has a patch mapping table. In other words, you can assign Proteus presets to MIDI patch change commands - e.g., patch 1 = preset 200, patch 2 = preset 1, etc. Proteus has 192 presets (64 RAM), XR has 383 (255 RAM). >drums I haven't explored the drums fully, although I did a closer listening test last night. The crash cymbal is much more realistic than the HR16's (I still don't care for the sustain characteristics), and the snares are excellent - I much prefer the tone and character of the Proteus to the HR. I'm certain that there are ways to "tune" the drums, but I don't know how yet. The ride is not my favorite, but it's a heckuva lot better than the L/A cymbals that I've heard. There is also a plethora of Latin percussion, percussive FX, and hammered "metal" sounds. I tried to be fairly complete in my listing, but there are so many variations that you probably don't appreciate the diversity. Best bet is to play it. >any builtin effects Depends on what you mean. If you mean a separate signal processor (like the D50, M1 or VFX), then no. It does have chorusing (which works very well, BTW) - but it's Emu's brand of chorus. When chorus is turned on for an oscillator, another osc is automatically "linked" and detuned slightly. In short, chorusing works, but uses twice as many oscillators as without. >stereo, mono, etc Many samples are stereo. Some are mono, some only go to one output! In any case, a mono plug with a stereo sample generates a combined mono signal. IMO, you will want to run stereo. The characteristics of stereo samples are subtle, but they sound great. >32 voices Yes, it has 32 "channels" (read: simultaneous tones generated, or 32 oscillators). Whether or not you have 32 "notes of polyphony" (NOP) depends on what presets you play - or more accurately, how those presets are programmed. A preset can use 1 or 2 oscs - many use 2. Chorusing eats another osc (chorusing can be en/disabled on a per osc basis). Example: there is a preset called "Phantasia" (L/A type) which uses 2 oscs and choruses both of them. You'll only get 8 NOP in this case. Note, however, that Proteus has a pretty smart dynamic voice allocation (DVA) scheme. When a new osc is needed and none are available, the oldest is stolen. Big deal. But a preset can have 2 or more oscs going in it ... usually, one is a percussive type and completes its envelope cycle before the 2nd. In short, NOP is not directly dependent on notes played, but rather on how many oscs are in use. Of course, using links and layering, it's possible to stack all 32 oscs on one note. Not highly useful, IMO. Bottom line - it's not nearly as fraudulent as Roland's "partials", but the best patches use 2 oscs. Of course, it has an overflow mode so you can chain two or more together. Yes, I find myself wishing it had 64 oscillators. As far as I can tell (and this is very application dependent), we're talking somewhere between 16-26 NOP available at any one time if you're using it in MULTI mode. >xfade, etc Yes, it can cross-fade, switch, or do whatever you might want it to do. It supports MIDI modes OMNI, MONO, POLY and has a MULTI mode which is analagous to one of the same name on the ESQ series. >"pad" sounds The thing is certainly capable of making "pad" sounds, but there are not a boatload of them on board initially. Since I use my MKS70 or OBXa for pads, it's pretty irrelevant to me. There are some nice string and horns presets that would function well as pads. Did I miss anything? -b
1886.103	Emu = Roland on sschemes	NORGE::CHAD	Ich glaube Ich t�te Ich h�tte	`Thu Jan 11 1990 13:20`	8
	The Roland scheme is no more "fraudulent" than the proteus scheme. They sound the same to me -- ie, you don't really get 32 notes out of the machine using "normal" patches. Chad PS: Why do you call the Roland scheme "fraudulent"? They explain what it means.
1886.104	degree of lie is less (which doesn't excuse it)	DYO780::SCHAFER	Brad - boycott hell.	`Thu Jan 11 1990 14:29`	12
	RE: why is Roland's claim any worse than Emu's? Simple. Play any MT32/D110 patch that uses only 1 partial. Now play any Proteus patch that uses one oscillator. Proteus will almost always be usable (unless you program it to be thus). Roland will rarely (if ever) be. Sounds like both companies have taken cues from the big computer makers. "Lessee ... 1000 simultaneous ALL-IN-1 users? On a 750? With 4 Mbytes? Naw - no problem......" -b (who supports ALL-IN-1)
1886.105	Even the law recognizes degrees of fraudulency	DREGS::BLICKSTEIN	Conliberative	`Thu Jan 11 1990 14:43`	38
	re: Brad Thanks Brad. You got them all. I'm gonna get a demo from Ron before I buy, but I'm pretty much sold and justified the price. You should get a commission. (Demonstrates that information sells better than "hype" and "copy"). re: Chad. > The Roland scheme is no more "fraudulent" than the proteus scheme. > They sound the same to me -- ie, you don't really get 32 notes out of > the machine using "normal" patches. I stand by Brad's statement. The MT-32 really has something more like 12 voice polyphony (that may even be an overly kind estimate), the Proteus, according to Brad, has 16 to 26. 16-26 is greater than 12, hence Roland is "more fraudulent". Unless you believe that no lie can be worse than another and that telling my date I have 6 Porsche's and two Jags is no worse than telling her I have a great car, if all I really have is a beat-up Honda Civic that usually works. > PS: Why do you call the Roland scheme "fraudulent"? They explain what > it means. I didn't call the "scheme" fraudulent. What's fraudulent is how Roland markets it. Describing it as having "32 voice polyphony" strikes me as being similar to describing a machine that theoretically can achieve 32 MIPS as a 32 MIP machine when in fact, real programs can only attain 12. I haven't seen how Emu markets Proteus - they don't seem to need much marketing. db
1886.106	software delay for XR	DYO780::SCHAFER	Brad - boycott hell.	`Thu Jan 11 1990 15:21`	12
	Something that I should have posted earlier that I didn't ... The currently available Proteus editors do NOT work with the Proteus XR. The machines do not talk the same SYSEX. Editors and librarians are expected to be available for the XR beginning in February. Also, OpCode's editor is available for both the AtariST and the MAC. Finally. 8-) List is $199. For what it's worth. -b
1886.107	Not fraudulent -- usability of patches is user-dependent	NORGE::CHAD	Ich glaube Ich t�te Ich h�tte	`Thu Jan 11 1990 16:32`	4
	I got usually 12-20 notes from my MT32 when I had it. There were several patches that used only 1 or 2 partials that I used. Chad
1886.108		SALSA::MOELLER	Never trust a Prankster.	`Thu Jan 11 1990 16:42`	16
	thanks for the side by side comparisons. My only comment is that you didn't use my fave 1000PX piano - #16, Stereo Grand. the 'extended' stereo grand (#17) has a velocity switch that kicks in the 'bright' piano (#15) in stereo... a very thin and unconvincing sound, at least for solo work. The stereo grand (heard at length on Commusic 7, should the rest of you submit anything in this decade so that it gets released), along with a good reverb program with plenty of returned highs, is, to me, PREFERABLE to recording a regular grand with mikes. I met a fellow with a studio recently... he's got a Yamaha 6' grand in good tune. Using two condenser mics, I didn't like the results as well as recording the Kpiano. We're gonna get together again and experiment with mic placement... karl
1886.109	I suppose if you find those 1-partial sounds useful - I don't	DREGS::BLICKSTEIN	Conliberative	`Thu Jan 11 1990 17:04`	11
	C'mon Chad, I have the patch sheet for the MT-32. The vast majority of MT-32 sounds require at LEAST two voices. The number that only take one can just about be counted on one hand! According to my reading, MOST Proteus patches require at MOST two. I think it's pretty clear that the Proteus has significantly more true polyphony. db
1886.110	apples	HPSRAD::NORCROSS	Tyngsboro smells.	`Thu Jan 11 1990 17:20`	4
	Let's not compare Proteus against MT-32. It doesn't make sense. Proteus to U-220 maybe. /Mitch
1886.111	Not a lie at all	TALLIS::SEIGEL	SYNTH when?	`Fri Jan 12 1990 00:43`	35
	RE: .104, .last Agree with Mitch. Gotta compare to U-20. Apples to apples. So, on that note: > be usable (unless you program it to be thus). Roland will rarely (if > ever) be. Survey says...... Buuuuuuuuzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz! News is that U-20's Acoustic Piano patch (which is made up of an Acoustic piano Timbre (which is made of an acoustic piano Tone)) uses 1 part. Sounds prettttttty good. Bright. Not quite as anatomically correct as the PX, but very nice indeed. In fact, I've gone thru all 128 "tones" (the basic building block of the U-20) and it's rather difficult to find a tone that cannot stand alone, with the expection of the waves. And most of the preset patches are single-part. Now, how this all translates to phonypoly, I'm not absolutely sure. But I can play lots of notes and they don't drop out. The manual claims that the unit is 30 note polyphonic. You can even "reserve" a certain number of voices per part if you want to allocate more to the piano, and less to the bass, etc. Nifty. This is a great machine. Not to take anything away from the Proteus, which is also a great machine. Best to compare them side-by-side; best not to rely on past Roland products to form the basis for the comparison. 8^) Andy
1886.112	Uh, not really	DREGS::BLICKSTEIN	Conliberative	`Fri Jan 12 1990 09:37`	6
	Guys, We aren't comparing the MT-32 to the Proteus. We are comparing the fraudulency in each's claims to polyphony. That is most definitely an apples-to-apples comparison.
1886.113	errata, and stay tuned	DYO780::SCHAFER	Brad - boycott hell.	`Fri Jan 12 1990 10:20`	23
	RE: Karl Brain damage on my part - we also used 16; I just forgot to put it down. The 1st thing to go is the memory, and I had too much that I had to try to remember ... RE: polyphony I think the comparison is fair. I, too, have played with the MT32 (and extensively with the D110 - I almost bought one) and can say without a doubt that there were NO single partial patches loaded into the machine I played. I would estimate that 50% were 2p, 30% were 3p, and 20% (the best ones) were 4p. As for comparing the Proteus to the U20/220, I think that we might be comparing the machines unfairly. The Proteus does not come delivered as a "sample player" per-se. Sure, there are the standard piano, strings, sax, et al ... but these aren't the patches that use all the oscs. More to come in a minute ... -b
1886.114	Does Proteus have 64 oscillators?	LEDDEV::ROSS	shiver me timbres....	`Fri Jan 12 1990 10:44`	19
	Hmmm. Polyphony. Each 'voice' (without the bazillion modulation routings) looks like this: [sample player]----[vca]----\ \| \ Crossfade----+ [pan and output assign] \| / [sample player]----[vca]----/ Im 99.9% surethere are 32 of THESE configurations. This implies 64 sample players (in my mind). Otherwise, you'd only get 16 voice polyphony with each voice using dual samples. I dont think this is the case. Both 'players' (oscillators) share the same note-on's. Brad, have you verified that it's only 16 part polyphonic with dual samples used? We'll have to scheme up a good test, since it's a bit hard to hear a "17th note" with 16 others on, and KNOW that another has not been stolen. Any ideas?
1886.115	?	LEDDEV::ROSS	shiver me timbres....	`Fri Jan 12 1990 10:56`	8
	use of 'Chorus' is clearly described in the manual as REDUCING the polyphony, since it uses another sample player. No mention of loss relating to using/not using the 2nd player in the voice configuration....
1886.116	I love working at home. 8-)	DYO780::SCHAFER	Brad - boycott hell.	`Fri Jan 12 1990 11:09`	69
	Okay - since I'm working at home today, I went up to the studio and turned on the Proteus and started snooping thru presets. MANY (not all) of the factory presets use 2 oscs per preset. Some of the exceptional presets use 2 oscs and chorusing on both oscs (meaning 4 oscs per patch). But almost ALL of the factory presets are excellent, usable sounds - there are very few bozos. I suspect that the presets were intended to show off the machine's abilities, not to preserve polyphony. On the XR, RAM presets above 192 are called "default", and have no oscs turned on, and no chorusing enabled. I just went thru every sample on the machine in single osc no chorus mode to see what they really sounded like, and to see if doubling/chorusing was necessary. Basically, the answers are simple: all the samples sound good to great, and doubling and chorusing are NOT necessary. There are 125 "sample locations" resident in the machine. Each location contains either a single instrument (may be multi-sampled), a single type of harmonic, single or multi-cycle waveform, or a "sample set" (eg, drum kit). The piano waves are tonally very unresponsive to velocity and barely change tone color regardless of what you do to them. Humph. At least there are 4 or 5 different waveforms. I liken the straight "piano" sample to a very clean version of the Korg P3 piano (which I've heard and played). All the strings and brass could stand on their own, period. All the guitar samples could stand on their own (in fact, the acoustic guitar preset uses only one OSC and no chorusing - very nice). There are two or three samples of different kinds of plucks or mutes, which would make very nice attack transients. All the choir samples could stand on their own. No need for chorus or doubling on any of these unless you really want a big, fat sound. The bass samples range from normal electric bass to finger pops to slaps to 2 synth basses. You'd probably want to use a cross fade and 2 oscs per voice, but since only one would be used at a point in time, the contribution of this to voice depletion is negligible. There are several "synth pad" samples that are great. Never knew they were in there. Also some synth string samples, which are very nice. None need doubling or chorus, but if you do, you're talking very fat. Winds and saxes are very nice, too ... except I wish they had a "growl sax" or something of that ilk. Would be nice to x-fade to one of them. Still, no doubling required. I said that I wouldn't get rid of my HR16 - I might reconsider. There are 5 full kit sample sets, all of which are excellent. There are also separate samples for kicks (very nice), snares (excellent), toms (killer), cymbals (very good), latin drums (wow), latin percussion (let's do the rhumba!), agogo, wood block, conga, timable, ride cymbal (lame, IMO), and 3 FX sample sets. Now, here's where the machine shines: there are LOTS of variant waveform types for synth-type programming. Combine and detune these waves and you'll be able to program just about anything. Of course, you'll be down to at least 16 note polyphony if you do this kind of programming. In short, there are no samples that can't stand on their own, giving 32 voice true polyphony. -b
1886.117	weply to wokin won	DYO780::SCHAFER	Brad - boycott hell.	`Fri Jan 12 1990 11:20`	29
	RE: Ron (polyphony again) Yeah, it is truly 32 OSCS/CHANNELs, not necessarily notes of polyphony. If two oscs are usedin a preset, the number of available notes is reduced to 16. I just tried it as follows: hold sustain pedal played a very loud low note (2 osc string preset) played 15 very soft high notes (all different) The low note ceased to sound when I pressed the 16th high note. Don't know what would have happened had I tried pressing the same key over and over - it may cycle notes or it may reuse the ones previously triggered at that note value. I would like to think that the thing steals oscs that have a short envelope and increases "perceived polyphony". Eg: preset X has 2 oscs - a) short pluck b) long pad a) dies out rapidly, but b) sustains forever during note sustain (by pedal or holding the key). I would like to think that Proteus sees oscs used by a) as available after their envelope completes, but I haven't tried programming a patch in this fashion, and I know of no presets that employ this type of patch. This would be real important in multi-timbral operation ... -b
1886.118	...	NORGE::CHAD	Ich glaube Ich t�te Ich h�tte	`Fri Jan 12 1990 11:56`	6
	Brad, there are 1-partial MT32 patches. I had an Mt32 for many months and often used the 1-partial sounds as they often were the sound I'd need. Chd
1886.119	Correction	TALLIS::SEIGEL	SYNTH when?	`Fri Jan 12 1990 12:00`	20
	RE: U-20, Brad I'm working at home as well, and decided to check out a few things... And, it turns out, I stand partially corrected [Partially - get it? Partially? Hahahahaha... anyway.... 8^)] U-20 tones come in 5 flavors: single, velocity switch, dual, detune, and velocity mix. The first two require 1 voice per note; the latter 3 require 2 voices per note. I revisited the tone list. More than � are single or velocity switch. For patches, the basic acoustic piano uses a dual tone, BUT, there is a single tone version that sounds just as good (to me). As far as pads and strings etc., again, more than � of these are single tones. So, clearly, a part that calls up a single tone will be 30 voice polyphonic; a dual tone, 15 voice. Stacking parts cuts polyphony. a
1886.120	Dead Proteus	TALLIS::PALMER	Colonel Mode	`Fri Jan 12 1990 12:05`	4
	Damn! My Proteus is dead as a doornail. I hope it's a simple power supply problem. Now we'll see how good the warranty service is... Chris
1886.121	Separate outs for experiment	DREGS::BLICKSTEIN	Conliberative	`Fri Jan 12 1990 13:47`	11
	> Brad, have you verified that it's only 16 part polyphonic with > dual samples used? We'll have to scheme up a good test, since > it's a bit hard to hear a "17th note" with 16 others on, and > KNOW that another has not been stolen. Any ideas? Yeah, I've done stuff like this by using separate outputs. That is, play like 4 or 5 notes on each output and then listen to the individual channels to see if any notes are "missing". db
1886.122	oops. well, the stealing algorithm is GOOD, tho	LEDDEV::ROSS	shiver me timbres....	`Tue Jan 16 1990 10:14`	17
	Well, yeah, Im slightly disappointed. Setup dual-sound voice on one channel. Turn overflow on. Turn master volume off. Press sustain pedal. Play 16 notes....no sound. Play 17-th, and sure enuf, it overflows (to another SGU). So we have the Proteus weighing in at anywhere between 16 voice polyphonic, and 32 voice polyphonic depending on the voice. 2 Demarits to Alesis for 'creative manual-writing and advertising'. 2 Demarits to me for 'wishful thinking'. ron
1886.123	nit, nit (but I agree)	DYO780::SCHAFER	Brad - boycott hell.	`Tue Jan 16 1990 10:33`	3
	Er, howcum U berate Alesis for an Emu problem? -b
1886.124	Whats in a name?	LEDDEV::ROSS	shiver me timbres....	`Thu Jan 18 1990 09:44`	8
	re -1: Doesnt everyone�? (oops, of course.) rr
1886.125	not living in the U.S.A.	KADOR::HANNA	Mmmmm Yes	`Tue Feb 27 1990 06:17`	10
	Read in Sound-on-Sound's review of Proteus that it can be used with both 110/220 volts as it detects the votage and switches accordingly. Is this mentioned in the owner manual at all .? I was in Houston a few weeks ago and almost picked one up when I remembered the usual thing about 220V in Europe and decided against it (I know I could get a transformer but they're big, bulky and probably add noise too). Zayed
1886.126	Proteus Upgrades And Assorted Blather	AQUA::ROST	Bikini Girls With Machine Guns	`Wed Feb 28 1990 10:25`	94
	From USENET, some poop on upcoming Proteus enhancements. Sounds like E-Mu should have thought about ROM cards. Brian From: [email protected] (Jon W. Backstrom) Subject: Proteus/1 and Proteus/2 Date: 28 Feb 90 03:38:10 GMT Since there has been a lot of discussion here about the Proteus and orchestral samples, I thought I would post E-mu's announcement about the upcoming new products and options. The Proteus/1 is the original model and the newer Proteus/1 XR has been available for a few months now. The XR version includes 192 additional user presets (beyond the normal 64). Interestingly, I was just shipped a new Proteus/1 from the factory, serial #7251. (Less than 7300 Proteus units in existance so far?!) From E-mu's product announcement: ----------------- Proteus/2 ----------------- A new orchestral model, the Proteus/2 has been announced and will be available this summer. At the heart of the Proteus/2 is a full 8 megabytes of new 16-bit samples from the Emulator III library. Solo violin, viola, cello. Ensemble violin, viola, cello and bass, both arco and pizzacato. Tremolande strings. The full range of orchestral woodwinds and brass. Harp, celeste, timpani, tubular bells and a wide selection of orchestral percussion...Additionally, Proteus/2 also contains a new selection of digital waveforms which, when combined with Proteus' powerful synthesis capabilities, allows te creation of a virtually limitless variety of striking new sounds. (Advertising hype, obviously.) Like Proteus/1, Proteus/2 provides 32 voice polyphony, 16 channel multi-timbral capability, 6 polyphonic outputs with integral effects send and returns, user-programmable alternate tuning, powerful MIDI-patch realtime modulation system... Proteus/2 will be available in standard and XR versions...$1495 for 192 presets...$1795 for 384 presets. (That's 64 and 256 user presets, respectively.) ----------------- Proteus/1 Upgrade ----------------- For Proteus/1 owners, wishing to expand their instruments, E-mu will offer a four megabyte ROM expansion set containing samples selected from the Proteus/2 and designed to compliment the instruments already in Proteus/1. (Jim Rosenberg, product manager, told me that great care was taken to include the best mix of sounds from the Proteus/2.) The four megabyte expansion bank for Proteus/1 lists for $495 plus the cost of installation. (The original Proteus/1 lists for $995 and $1295 for the XR version.) ----------------- The Sound Banks ----------------- A new MIDI command has been added to identify the sound sets in a given Proteus (supported in ROM version 2.10 and above). The standard sounds are Sound Set 0...the Proteus/2 contains sound sets 1 and 2. The current configurations are as follows: Product Sound Set(s) ------------------ ------------ Proteus/1 0 Proteus/2 1,2 Proteus/1A 0,2 That's the scoop on the new products... E-mu says: ...for the ultimate in MIDI compositions systems, team a Proteus/1 and Proteus/2 to create a 12 megabyte, 64 voice polyphonic, 32 channel multi-timbral, digital musical instrument with a suggested list price in the US of under $2500. (Disclaimer - I'm an E-mu developer, but I have no direct connection with E-mu itself.) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jon W. Backstrom "Yah sure...we gonna have fun, you bet!" Institute for Digital Arts P.O. Box 176 Internet: [email protected] Bloomington, IN 47402-0176 UUCP: {ames,rutgers,att}!iuvax!silver!viking -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1886.127	Wha happened?	NRPUR::DEATON		`Mon Mar 12 1990 14:32`	10
	RE < Note 1886.120 by TALLIS::PALMER "Colonel Mode" > > -< Dead Proteus >- > > Damn! My Proteus is dead as a doornail. I hope it's a simple power > supply problem. Now we'll see how good the warranty service is... > > Chris Status?
1886.128	The Proteus Lives	TALLIS::PALMER	Colonel Mode	`Tue Mar 13 1990 11:50`	10
	I got it back two weeks later. It was the power supply, as I suspected. Unfortunately, the tech that worked on it blew out the entire RAM so I had to take it back to Wurlie's to reload it from theirs. Furthermore, they didn't have an XR on display so I didn't get quite all the patches back that I lost, but they promised me that they'll have an XR on display after they move. By the way, Wurlie's charges $20 handling to repair stuff not purchased there. Hmpf. At least they were quick and polite. Chris
1886.129	Mine came yesterday	VOLKS::RYEN	Rick Ryen 240-6501 AET1-1/A6	`Fri Mar 23 1990 13:58`	15
	UPS delivered my XR yesterday. I spent some time last night playing with it. Quite a difference between this and my trusty old MT32! I have my work cut out for me, converting all 70 of my sequences (for MT32) to run on the Proteus. But, I'm sure that the end result will be killer. Since there are a few of us in this conference with the units, maybe we should set up a Proteus PATCH note? I haven't done any myself yet, but I'm sure that I'll get there before too long. Rick
1886.130	let's do SYSEX	DYO780::SCHAFER	Brad - boycott hell.	`Fri Mar 23 1990 17:29`	7
	Possibly a good idea - I hope to pick up a Proteus editor before too awful long (assuming that I don't run out of bux 1st). Given the number of parameters, I'd rather see the exchange take place via MIDIlib. But I'm willing to be flexible. -b
1886.131	Latest PROTEUS pricing?	ITASCA::ALLEN		`Tue Mar 27 1990 16:21`	21
	...er...a friend of mine has asked me to find out where one can buy a PROTEUS 1 for the best price. I have heard you can pick one up for as little as $795.00; is this true? anonymous (No, this is really not for me...HONEST...) :-) :-) ;^)
1886.132	;^) indeed	DYO780::SCHAFER	Brad - boycott hell.	`Tue Mar 27 1990 17:46`	7
	The best price I've found on a Proteus 1 is $795 at ProFound Sound, or $797 at Music City (in LaFayette, LA). Best on the Proteus 1/XR is $1075 or $1077. Don't know about availability, though. -b
1886.133	MIDIlib, Can't get there from here	VOLKS::RYEN	Rick Ryen 240-6501 AET1-1/A6	`Tue Mar 27 1990 18:10`	19
	>>> Given the number of parameters, I'd rather see the exchange take place >>> via MIDIlib. But I'm willing to be flexible. Brad, I'd like to use MIDILIb, but I have no idea how to use the files located there! I have a MC300 sequencer, not a computer, so I don't really know how I would put files on the Enet from it. Is there a note someplace that describes get from something like a MC300 to the enet?. I didn;t think that DEC sold any 3.5" floppies. I have looked in the MIDIlib subdirectories, but it's still all a mystery to me on how one goes about getting info" from a 3.5" disk to the Enet, and my MC300 doesn't have an ethernet port? Rick
1886.134	requires computer	DYO780::SCHAFER	Brad - boycott hell.	`Tue Mar 27 1990 18:33`	6
	MC300 won't cut it - U need a computer to do file xfer, and some software like Uniterm, Kermit, Flash, X/YModem, etc. I suppose ASCII will have to do, in that case. +b
1886.135	I saw one -- not bad	NORGE::CHAD	Ich glaube Ich t�te Ich h�tte	`Wed Mar 28 1990 10:59`	7
	Well I saw a proteus last night and heard the ROM demos as well as a few sounds at the Acton NaVAUS Atari meeting last night (courtesy of the Dr Ts guys). Sounded great -- very pop/commercial oriented. Maybe someday I'll have to look into the machine. Chad
1886.136	more prices ...	NIMBUS::DAVIS		`Wed Mar 28 1990 11:37`	10
	re: 131 In the Boston area, you might check Wurlitzers. Friend of mine said they had the Proteus on sale for $795 as part of the grand opening sale at their new Comm Ave store. His take on it was that the Roland U220 (which he bought instead of a Proteus) had forced the price down. Rob
1886.137	$899 for an /XR is possible	VOLKS::RYEN	Rick Ryen 240-6501 AET1-1/A6	`Wed Mar 28 1990 13:11`	13
	re.-1 > In the Boston area, you might check Wurlitzers. Friend of mine said > they had the Proteus on sale for $795 as part of the grand opening sale > at their new Comm Ave store. His take on it was that the Roland U220 > (which he bought instead of a Proteus) had forced the price down. I bought /XR there during the sale, for $899. I don't believe that sale price is valid any more, since the sale only lasted 3 days. The same day, the Worcester store quoted me $1295. Guess I lucked out. Rick
1886.138	Sale Shmale	DREGS::BLICKSTEIN	Conliberative	`Wed Mar 28 1990 17:24`	12
	Just go in and tell them "I know someone who bought it here for $899 and that's what I'm willing to pay". If they say "no", say "oh well" and walk out. I doubt they'll let you get very far. If it's in stock, they'll probably give it to you for that price. I've never had any problem trying to get the major (Daddy's, EU's, etc.) to match a sale price (their sale or someone else's) unless it's a really hot item that they can sell as many units as they can get their hands on. db
1886.140	PAN=P, LINK Volumes, Preset Numbering?	VOLKS::RYEN	Rick Ryen 240-6501 AET1-1/A6	`Fri Mar 30 1990 13:29`	40
	Couple of quick questions/comments fro any of you guys that have a Proteus.,, Is there a quick way to establish PAN=P? I think I've tried most of the CC 10 nn possibilities. I've noticed that many of the presets sound best when PAN=P, but I think that I'll have to modify some parameter to set PAN=P. Too bad they didn't use CC 10 0, or something like that to set PAN=P. Here's another one. When you LINK presets, is there a "simple" way to balance the volumes between the various LINKED presets? There are volume controls on the two sampled sources, but I haven't been able to find any for LINK. I fear that it might be a bit complex. What I define as "complex" is something like..."having to copy the presets to RAM, modify their volume, and then LINK them". That seems like a bit much to me. I suspect that there is a slightly simpler method, but I haven't figured it out yet. Anybody out there solved this yet? And a comment... I understand the need for the PROGRAM CHANGE MAP, but I'm finding it to be a bit of a pain to set-up each time I want to call a preset above 127. Maybe I'll be less frustrated with this when I work out some "standard" way of doing this consistently for myself. Anybody have a guess why they spread out the Program numbers of LIKE sounds so widely? It seems like odd grouping to me, and I don't quite know why it is organized that way. I would have expected, for example, All Piano sounds to be sequential, such as PC1, PC2, PC3...etc,,,; instead of Piano=PC2, Grand=PC120, Stereo Piano=PC138. curious, Rick
1886.141	Marketing	NORGE::CHAD	Ich glaube Ich t�te Ich h�tte	`Fri Mar 30 1990 15:19`	17
	> Anybody have a guess why they spread out the Program > numbers of LIKE sounds so widely? It seems like > odd grouping to me, and I don't quite know why it > is organized that way. I would have expected, for example, > All Piano sounds to be sequential, such as PC1, PC2, PC3...etc,,,; > instead of Piano=PC2, Grand=PC120, Stereo Piano=PC138. "Elementary my dear Watson" It is called marketing -- people in the store thumbing through the presets want to hear the various sounds the thing can make without having to slog through 10 pianos, 6 trumpets, etc. Chad
1886.142	Eeee Gad, Not Science!	VOLKS::RYEN	Rick Ryen 240-6501 AET1-1/A6	`Fri Mar 30 1990 15:45`	12
	>"Elementary my dear Watson" >It is called marketing -- people in the store thumbing through the presets >want to hear the various sounds the thing can make without having to slog >through 10 pianos, 6 trumpets, etc. Eee...Gad, I belive you may have it Mister Holmes!. Surley it can not be for reasons of science! It is indeed a shallow world in which we live, is it not Mister Holmes? The DR.
1886.143	Hey...is there anybody out there?	ITASCA::ALLEN		`Tue May 08 1990 17:07`	10
	Not much action in this note (last entry - March 30, 1990! ). Are we to assume that all you PROTEUS users are having so much fun you don't have time to tell us how much you love your machines? I would appreciate hearing from owners what these SGU's are like to live with after the newness has worn off. Bill Allen (who is starting to gather crumpled dollar bills together, now that the price is down to $757.00 8^) ).
1886.144	one of my faves	LEDDEV::ROSS	shiver me timbres....	`Wed May 16 1990 14:33`	24
	Excellent unit imo still. Samples great. no noise. lotsa polyphony...AND percussion..... Down side: NO real time control of filters. Just velocity, init value, and/or keyboard 'place'. No resonance. Given that there are 32 filters....that seems to be reasonable. No tambourine. No hand claps(!?) Up side: THick polyphony, sound quality, sound architecture where almost anything modulates anything, layers, splits, LINKS of one sound to <= 4 other sounds for 1 key-down= 8 different voices sounding (and 4 keys of that max!)... Cross fade/cross change via velocity/CCx/pedal/anything... 6 outs..... good price. Need some midrange EQ boost in live situations. On tape it's killer. saving pennies to get another. rr
1886.145	Still waiting	TROA01::HITCHMOUGH		`Wed May 16 1990 17:41`	5
	Believe it opr not, still waiting for mine. Canada must have had an allocation of 1. Ken
1886.146	still like mine - wish I had time to use it	DYO780::SCHAFER	Brad - boycott hell.	`Tue May 29 1990 14:29`	13
	RE: .144 (belated!) Actually, the Proteus has no filters at all. Everything else about the machine is top notch. Easy to program, very wide range of waveforms, lots of polyphony. In fact, my only major complaint about the unit was its inability to effectively respond to velocity ... that went away several weeks ago when I had time to reprogram the piano patch. Turns out that the 4 built-in velcurve mappings are not entirely suitable for the KX76's output. +b (in the office for the first day this year)
1886.147	More samples in the Proteus?	STKAI2::HALL		`Wed May 30 1990 05:47`	9
	Here's another happy NEW owner of a Proteus 1 XR. So far, I think it's great (4 days of usage). Anyone having a status of the 4 MB addon-rom to the Proteus 1. Is it available in the US, what samples are in there, are they worth the (what I have understood) high price. Torbjorn
1886.148		DYPSS1::SCHAFER	Brad - boycott hell.	`Wed May 30 1990 14:10`	8
	What I know about the extra ROM ... Proteus/2 has 8Mb ROM of orchestral samples (whatever that means). The upgrade for the /1 is a 4Mb set of these (assumably designed to complement the /1 samples), and lists at $495. I would suspect that installation and discount would end up being around $425. +b
1886.149	What editors/librarians??	STKAI2::HALL		`Wed Jun 06 1990 12:09`	9
	Now, it's time to think about an editor/lib for the /1 XR. What editors/lib's are you using out there? Are they all supporting the XR, with its additional sysex capabilities?? I'm most interested in ATARI ST based editors. Torbjorn
1886.150	but I haven't seen it	NORGE::CHAD	Ich glaube Ich t�te Ich h�tte	`Wed Jun 06 1990 14:20`	3
	Opcode has an Atari ST editor for the proteus. Chad
1886.151	MacProteus	NORGE::CHAD	Ich glaube Ich t�te Ich h�tte	`Wed Jun 06 1990 14:23`	15
	Anyway, while I am at the Proteus note I thought I'd mention something I read in a flyer I got a few days ago. Digidesign is having together with Opcode some clinics in Boston and in Toronto and Montreal for their sound tools card and Opcodes Vision and new Studio Vision (works with MIDI and the sound tools board). Anyway, they said in the flyer: "You will also see: ...MacProteus (a Proteus on a Macintosh NuBus card)..." So there you have it, you too can have your Mac make CD quality beeps :-) Chad
1886.152	More info please.	TROA01::HITCHMOUGH		`Thu Jun 07 1990 08:56`	8
	re:-1 Any dates? Venues? Macproteus sounds interesting. Ken
1886.153	where to see a MacProteus	NORGE::CHAD	Ich glaube Ich t�te Ich h�tte	`Thu Jun 07 1990 10:52`	35
	This probably belongs somewhere else but here goes: If you want to see a MacProteus or any of the other digidesign or opcode stuff here are the clinics: EU Wurlitzer Boston 922 Commonwealth Ave Mon, Jun 11, 7:30 PM (617) 738-7000 (atari sound tools only) EU Wurlitzers Boston Tues June 12, noon - 6pm Saved By Technology Toronto Wednesday June 13 7:30pm George Gnatieff Theater U of Toronto Talk to robb Wright (416) 928-5995 Steve's Music Toronto 415 Queen St W. Thurs June 14, 1, 3, 5 pm Talk to Kevin Bond (416) 593-8888 Richard Audio Montreal 5703 Ferrier St Fri June 15, 1, 3, 5 pm Talk to George Klaus (514) 733-5131
1886.154		TROA01::HITCHMOUGH		`Thu Jun 07 1990 11:10`	8
	Thanks Chad. I've booked my seat for June 14th and will enter my feedback when I've seen it. I hope that its cheaper than the Proteus (no metalwork/display etc) and that it stiil allows you to use your own sequencing s/w and the MIDI port at the same time. Ken
1886.155	According to EM...	MIDI::DAN	Dan Gosselin, CUP Engineering	`Thu Jun 07 1990 11:59`	11
	I the latest EM's "What's New" section, it says that MacProteus will list for $899. Also (in case anyone's interested) Digidesign has come out with 'Deck', a 4-track digital recording and mixing program that works with either Sound Tools or Audiomedia. Other features include "digital EQ, other DSP effects, and the ability to play back Standard MIDI Files while recording and overdubbing digital audio". 'Deck' works on the Mac. Finally, for Atari owners, Notator 3.0 (yay!) and Cubase 2.0 should be released soon.
1886.156	Lowest Prices on PROTEUS, yet?	MUSKIE::ALLEN		`Sun Jul 22 1990 19:33`	15
	Yes, I know I'm supposed to be outta here, but I just had to come back from oblivion to make sure that people know that GUITAR CENTER is having a sale on THE PROTEUS/1 for (get this)...$695.00 !!! I don't know how long the sale is going to last or if there is a special price on the XR, as well. And the answer to your next question is affirmative...well, even struggling grad student's need a treat now and then, right? A list of GUITAR CENTERs is available in note 6.25. And now, as I fade away a g a i ..n.................
1886.157	XR for sale in NE Want Advertizer	VOLKS::RYEN	Rick Ryen 240-6501 AET1-1/A6	`Mon Jul 23 1990 14:04`	5
	FYI - I saw an XR for sale in the (New England area) Want Advertizer for $895. Rick
1886.158	update?	LEDDEV::ROSS	shiver me timbres....	`Tue Aug 07 1990 15:06`	6
	Anyone know the latest 'best deal' on Proteus 1 (and/or XR) prices? ron
1886.159	coming down	NORGE::CHAD	Ich glaube Ich t�te Ich h�tte	`Tue Aug 07 1990 17:51`	6
	Somebody on Usenetmentioned a $699 for the non -XR /1 version at guitar center. It may have been mentioned here too. I paid $599.99 for a used on locally (daddy's nashua) Chad
1886.160	Proteus On A Card For The Mac	AQUA::ROST	Four strings can do it all	`Tue Aug 14 1990 09:21`	40
	From USENET, info on a card fro the Mac using Proteus innards: From: [email protected] (Bryan Sells) Subject: proteus on a card info Date: 13 Aug 90 00:00:43 GMT Since some of you all have asked about it, I thought I'd post what I found this weekend: Direct from digidesign's literature (used without permission) Features: -Macintosh II NuBus Card -4 megabytes of stunning, 16 bit digitally sampled sounds -32 voice polyphonic -192 presets -up to 16 sounds at once -front panel software (by Opcode Systems) included -supports Apple Midi Manager -2 line level (RCA) outputs -1/4" stereo headphone jack System requirements -macintosh II family CPU -MIDI keyboard (or controller) and MIDI interface, or MIDI Manager compatible sequencer -headphones with 1/4" connector or amplifier and speakers for more information on digidesign products, call 800.333.2137 ************************************************************** There's more hype, but there's the basics. The price listed on the literature was $895. Disclaimer: I have nothing whatsoever to do with Digidesign. BRYAN [email protected]
1886.161	Proteus1 4MB ROM Upgrade = Proteus3/XR?	NIBLIK::ROBSON		`Tue Oct 16 1990 07:08`	29
	Does anyone know anything about the 4MB ROM upgrade for the Proteus 1? I have been looking forward to adding the 4MB upgrade ROM to my Proteus for some time, so that I may take advantage of the orchestral samples therein, but on making enquiries as to the availability of this EMU upgrade, I find that there is little information as to the technical details available. There is a dealer here in the UK who is advertising it at 449 UK pounds, including free fitting, but I found that they do not actually have it in stock yet and are unable to provide any details. Phone calls to EMU have been so far unsuccessfull in that the person who apparently can deal with the call is either unavailable or on the phone. I plan to write to EMU, but in the meantime I was wondering if anyone had details on the device. My anticipation is that with the upgrade installed, I would have the samples of both the Proteus1 and the Proteus2, but I am not sure if any extra storage locations for user presets would also be present, resulting in a "Proteus3/XR" so to speak; and whether or not compatibility with my Steinberg Proteus Synthworks editor/librarian which in my opinion is excellent, would be maintained. I called Steinberg on the latter, who after checking with Germany called me back to say that they were still awaiting details from EMU regarding the Proteus upgrade in conjunction with any plans to accomodate it within Synthworks. Can anyone offer enlightenment? Thanks and Regards, Brian
1886.162	answers, hopefully	DYPSS1::SCHAFER	I used to wear a big man's hat...	`Wed Oct 17 1990 11:36`	27
	I thought I posted this back a few, but I can't seem to find it ... The Proteus 1 and 2 are not equal, in terms of samples. Proteus 1 is (according to Emu sources) "synth/pop oriented"; 2 is "oriented toward those who wish to reproduce acoustic instruments". Proteus 1 comes with 4 Mb sample ROM, and either 64 or 192 (XR) patch RAM locations. Proteus 2 comes with 8 Mb sample ROM (uncertain about RAM). There will be a new 4Mb sample ROM upgrade available for Proteus sometime around the end of this year (again, according to Emu). These samples are reported to be "a mixture of samples from the Proteus/2 and new synth-oriented timbres" - probably in keeping with the philosophy I stated above. The additional ROM is reportedly $495 list, and should probably run around $400 (US). I don't think installation is included. (I hope they include a better piano and more sax samples.) Perhaps the most interesting thing I've read lately was in a newsletter from Washington Music Center ... supposedly, Emu has entered into an agreement with a 3rd party to allow either loadable samples or some type of easy-way-to-load new samples (vis a vis Korg-like RAM card). If I can find it (the newsletter), I'll post more info. +b
1886.163	errata	DYPSS1::SCHAFER	I used to wear a big man's hat...	`Thu Oct 18 1990 14:42`	12
	Perhaps I've misspoken - the WMC newsletter that I thought addressed the 3rd party thing with external sample loading does no such thing. It turns out that Emu has entered a joint agreement with a 3rd party to produce the 4Mb ROM expansion upgrade for the Proteus 1 - it is supposed to include 256 more RAM locations (this thing is going to become unmanageable with that many patches, IMHO). I guess the external load capabilities are a figment of my imagination. I certainly can't find a reference to back me up. +b
1886.164	Protologic by Invision	NIBLIK::ROBSON		`Fri Oct 19 1990 12:10`	10
	I think the 3rd. Party device you may have in mind is the Protologic, by Invision of the USA, which I see advertised as being an alternative to the EMU ROM, and containing 128 "non-classical" oriented presets in ROM with room for another 256 in RAM. This is being advertised in the U.K. also for 449 U.K. Pounds. I have written to EMU regarding details of the EMU ROM upgrade, and will forward on here any reply they send. Best Regards, Brian
1886.165	arpeggiation woes again	DYPSS1::SCHAFER	I used to wear a big man's hat...	`Thu Nov 08 1990 09:55`	18
	While playing around last night, I ran into an "arpeggiation" problem on the Proteus similar to that discussed in topic 1066 (Kurzweil 1000PX). Using 2 different channels, set up the following: CHAN A: patch 1 (Stereo Piano - uses 2 oscs) CHAN B: patch 27 (Harmonic Synth - uses 4 oscs) Then play a thick (10-voice) chord stab. It's not as pronounced as the Kurzweil, but it is there. Obviously, I'm trying to make Proteus turn on 60 oscs at once (only 32 available), so some delay may be simply due to voice-stealing. (Same theory goes for the Kurzweil.) I'm beginning to believe that this could be a problem with all synths with .GT. 16 "notes of polyphony". +b (just call me picky)
1886.166	Then again, maybe not...	NIBLIK::ROBSON		`Fri Dec 14 1990 11:08`	47
	There has been no forthcoming information to date from EMU regarding the orchestral add-on module for the Proteus1 despite further phone calls and a letter, but in the intervening time I found out some more items of information which go a long way to answering some questions. Firstly, compatability with Steinberg Proteus Synthworks: I have received from Steinberg an update disk which caters for the Proteus2 in addition to the Proteus1, but the indications are that the internal architecture of the Proteus2 is different from the upgrade module, so it may not be possible to edit an upgraded Proteus1. Proteus1 Orchestral Upgrade Board: From what I can find out from magazines such as "Sound On Sound", the upgrade board itself appears still not to be on general release and contains only a selection of samples from the Proteus2. One of the main samples used in the construction of Proteus2 voices is apparently "Arco Strings", which is not included on the upgrade board. Arco Strings sounds very nice on the Proteus2, and also missing are some some Brass sounds, although these are catered for on the Proteus1 anyway. To cut a long story short, it appears that the upgrade board is not a direct substitute for the Proteus2, although I gather the price of the board is being reduced. Proteus2: I have had a demo of the Proteus2, and in my opinion it sounds very good; very good indeed. But it has no piano or choral samples, and I feel that at 1235 pounds it may be a little overpriced in comparison to the Proteus1 which in my opinion offers more in the way of what can be produced by editing the internal samples. The Proteus1 is currently retailing at a considerably cheaper price, and I would think that a Proteus1 together with a Proteus2 would be a highly desirable combination, as opposed to the installation of an upgrade board in a Proteus1. The latter is certainly the cheaper option, but in my opinion this may be false economy as it appears, at this stage, that the add-on board certainly does not convert the Proteus1 to a Proteus2. I am still looking out for opportunities to scource and hear an upgrade board, but untill then I think I shall save hard for a Proteus2 or look for a viable alternative, and in the meantime "keep at it" with my Proteus1/Steinberg Synthworks; both of which afford me tremendous fun. Very Best Regards Brian
1886.167	XR questions	LANDO::SAWIN	Jim Sawin, DTN 293-5503	`Sun Feb 03 1991 20:40`	11
	A few questions on the XR: I understand that the XR provides extra RAM for user storage - is that all you get for the extra $$? One of the replies here led me to believe that there are actually new patches provided with the XR. I would assume these patches are still based on the presets in ROM - is that true? What is the motivation for going to 256 from the 64 builtin user modifiable locations? Do alot of people use more than 64? Thanks, Jim
1886.168	Just more storage memory	NIBLIK::ROBSON		`Mon Feb 11 1991 11:59`	28
	Proteus XR uses the same 4MB sample ROM and only affords extra memory locations for storing more user presets than the basic Proteus1. My Proteus1 operation manual illustrates the differences in the chart below: "The fully programmable user presets and the unalterable ROM presets are organised as shown in the chart below. PROTEUS PROTEUS XR 0-63 ROM Presets 0-255 User Presets 64-127 User Presets 256-383 ROM Presets 128-193 ROM Presets On the Proteus XR, the ROM presets are duplicated in RAM. Presets 192-255 are left empty for your use" Perhaps some newer Proteus XRs are now shipping with additional presets deposited in RAM instead of simply duplicating the ROM presets, but all the indications are that the extra user storage is all you get for the extra $$ (approx. 200 pounds U.K.). A good editor/librarian could be obtained for the extra money, but perhaps the motivation in choosing to go for the extra storage may be with those who require a large number of instantly available sounds in, say, a live situation in which a computer may not be available for whatever reason. Perhaps some Proteus XR users could confirm this? Best Regards, Brian
1886.169	Data selector knob intermittancy?	ROBOT::RYEN	Rick Ryen 247-2552 TWO	`Mon Mar 11 1991 12:03`	13
	My data selection knob, you know, the one on the front panel that is used to select items in a sub-menu, select patches etc, has some strange behaviour in my machine. Sometimes when I turn it clockwise, it actually scrolls menu items in the counterclockwise direction! In general, it jumps about a bit more tha I would like it too. It seems like a switch problem, since it seems to work better if I apply a little downward pressure as I turn it. Has anybody else noticed this problem, or is it unique to my instanciation of the hardware? Rick
1886.170	Manly, yes, but Proteus does it, too.	TALLIS::PALMER	Colonel Mode	`Mon Mar 11 1991 13:00`	5
	Yes, my Proteus does it too. Perhaps squirting some electronic cleaning fluid (freon-like stuff) into the switch will help. I've just been ignoring it. Chris
1886.171	Another Glitched Proteus Owner	ELWOOD::TERRY::REILLY	Tonewheel Terror - Drawbar Dynamo	`Mon Mar 11 1991 17:11`	7
	Mine does it (jumps backwards 1-2 patches) all the time, and acts just as weirdly doing edit and set up functions. I haven't solved the problem, been real hesitant to open the unit up. But it probably is dirt on the switch contacts. Maybe it's time for some serious contact cleaner... Oh well! Wonder if Proteus has a fix for the problem... Terry
1886.172	Setting channel pan to P from a sequencer or computer	ROBOT::RYEN	Rick Ryen 247-2552 TWO	`Tue Mar 12 1991 11:16`	99
	Quite a few reply's ago, I asked if anybody knew how to programably (ie; using a sequencer or computer, not the front control panel) set a midi channel's pan parameter to P. Normally, I try and set up everything with my sequencer so that the sequence is entirely automatic. No knob twiddiling required. One of the parameters that I set in the sequence is channel PAN, to establish the overall mix. In the past, on my MT32, I used continous controller 10 (CC 10 pn) to set the pan. That works on Proteus for pan values (pn) between 0 and 127, and results in setting the channel pan to between -7 and 7 respectively, as displayed on the Proteus front panel. However, the Proteus can have a PAN setting of P, as displayed on the front panel. The P front panel setting means "use the pan settings in the preset for primary and secondary instruments". Now, for a lot of my favorite presets (and patches), the primary/secondary preset pan does some pretty neat things. For instance, the pan might be controlled by key number, establishing a note in the stereo field according to the note number. (eg; low notes pan left, higher notes pan more right). Basically, setting the channel pan to P allows the preset or patch to "play in stereo". As I'm sure you know, that characteristic truely defines some of the presets. The problem is how to get your sequencer to establish channel pan to P, without twiddling the knob! I tried every variation of CC 10 pn, from 0-127. None of these sets channel pan to P. I also tried recording, and replaying the MASTER SETTINGS system exclusive message. It doesn't go far enough to modify chanel pan. This morning, I discovered that what I really needed to modify was the GLOBAL/SETUP PARAMETERS listed on page 92 of the manual. After a little bit diddling, I figured out a system exclusive message to modify channel pan to P. This is it. Numbers on the left are in hex (as displayed by my MC300 sequencer). F0 Signifies start of system exclusive message 18 Manufacturer EMU 04 Product ID = Proteus 00 Device ID as indicated on MASTER MIDI MODE ID (default is 0) 03 Says that proteus is to accept the following message 00 LSB or parameter 1 address (global/setup parameter 256 = midi channel) 02 MSB of parameter 1 address (global/setup parameter 256 = midi channel) cc LSB of parameter 1 value = midi channel (cc= 00=mc1, 01=mc2 etc.) 00 MSB of parameter 1 value = midi channel (always 0, since 16 is max ch#) (set cc to the midi channel you want to change) 01 LSB of parameter 2 address (global/setup parameter 257 = Volume) 02 MSB of parameter 2 address (global/setup parameter 257 = Volume) vv LSB of parameter 2 value vv = volume VV MSB of parameter 2 value VV = volume (set vv to the volume you want on chanel cc) 02 LSB of parameter 3 address (global/setup parameter 258 = CHANNEL PAN) 02 MSB of parameter 3 address (global/setup parameter 258 = CHANNEL PAN) pp LSB of parameter 3 value pp = PAN (from 0 to 127) PP MSB of parameter 3 value PP = PAN (sign extension) (set pp to the pan value you want) (if you set pp=78 and PP=7F then PAN is set to P which is stereo ) F7 end of system exclusive message You will notice that this not only sets PAN, but also sets midi channel, and volume. I set all three, because of the way I'm used to doing it on the MT32. On the MT32 you can send a single address, followed by a string of contigous data values. The Proteus appears somewhat different, in that each parameter is individually addressed. (maybe there is another midi sysex command I don't know about) Anyway, this message actually sets three parameters, CURRENT CHANNEL, CHANNEL VOLUME, and CHANNEL PAN. You need to establish the current midi channel, otherwise, the PAN changes will go to whatever midi channel is selected on the front panel. The front panel might be random, so I'd avoid trying this without setting the current midi channel number. Since each parameter has its own address specified, it is probably possible to eliminate the VOLUME address and data bytes, so that only the current midi channel and channel pan are modified. I haven't tried that yet, but I'm sure it would work. Here's a table that helps me calculate parameter addresses 14 bit parameter data values. (hope I typed this in right) Byte# LSB MSB -------------------- ----------------------------------- Bit# in adrs 6 5 4 3 2 1 0 13 12 11 10 9 8 7 -- -- -- -- -- -- -- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- Bit# in byte 6 5 4 3 2 1 0 6 5 4 3 2 1 0 -- -- -- -- -- -- -- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- Value (base 10) 64 32 16 08 4 2 1 8192 4096 2048 1024 512 256 128 In the example above, we want to address parameter number 258, which is the decimal address of the channel pan parameter. So, we set bit#1 in the MSB byte, to get a a value of 256(10), and we set bit#1 in the LSB byte to get a value of 2(10) from the LSB byte. 256(10)+2(10)=258(10). Sending the the hex values of LSB=02 followed by MSB=01 addresses the pan parameter in decimal address 258. Regards, Rick
1886.173	RE: Data knob glitches	ROBOT::RYEN	Rick Ryen 247-2552 TWO	`Tue Mar 12 1991 11:55`	9
	Well, seeing that this happens to a couple of others, I suspect that it might be a design problem. I don;t think that I'll attempt to open mine up, even though it's beyond the warranty period. I'd probably just mess things up worse. I can probably live with it. It would however be interesting to ask the EMU folks. I don't recall having seen a service number. Anybody know it? Rick
1886.174	Shorter way to change channel pan to P (or whatever)	ROBOT::RYEN	Rick Ryen 247-2552 TWO	`Wed Mar 13 1991 12:39`	22
	I confirmed that you CAN shorten the sysex message to modify the current channel, and the channel pan parameter only. Saves 4 bytes, doesn't change your current volume, and looks like... F0 Signifies start of system exclusive message 18 Manufacturer EMU 04 Product ID = Proteus 00 Device ID as indicated on MASTER MIDI MODE ID (default is 0) 03 Says that proteus is to accept the following message 00 LSB or parameter 1 address (global/setup parameter 256 = midi channel) 02 MSB of parameter 1 address (global/setup parameter 256 = midi channel) cc LSB of parameter 1 value = midi channel (cc= 00=mc1, 01=mc2 etc.) 00 MSB of parameter 1 value = midi channel (always 0, since 16 is max ch#) (set cc to the midi channel you want to change) 02 LSB of parameter 3 address (global/setup parameter 258 = CHANNEL PAN) 02 MSB of parameter 3 address (global/setup parameter 258 = CHANNEL PAN) pp LSB of parameter 3 value pp = PAN (from 0 to 127) PP MSB of parameter 3 value PP = PAN (sign extension) (set pp to the pan value you want) (if you set pp=78 and PP=7F then PAN is set to P which is stereo ) F7 end of system exclusive message
1886.175	talk me out of it, quick	SALSA::MOELLER	Guy on a strange tractor	`Mon Sep 16 1991 15:04`	12
	Have auditioned and am STRONGLY considering purchase of a Proteus II. Not the XR.. 8MB, 64 user NVRAM slots. I was knocked out by the quality of the orchestral sounds. The uncredited demo sequence itself is a masterpiece. Some folks have faulted the PII for its lack of piano and choral sounds - true, but I plan to keep my 1000PX module as well.. Proteus II, 1000PX, and EMAX, driven by a KX88 and Performer.. killer !! Is $1175 before tax considered an okay price ? thanks, karl
1886.176	HaHaHaHaHaHaHa	DRUMS::FEHSKENS	len, EMA, LKG1-2/W10	`Mon Sep 16 1991 15:52`	4
	Talk you out of it? No way, it's on my list as "the next thing to buy". len.
1886.177	... or is it just MIDIlust?	MIZZOU::SHERMAN	ECADSR::SHERMAN 235-8176, 223-3326	`Mon Sep 16 1991 15:58`	13
	That's about what I was quoted a few months ago at Wurly's. I would like to have one, myself. But, I can live with what I've already got (D70 plus orchestral stuff on PCM cards). I did notice in the demo, however, that over some ranges the strings were obviously samples. That bothered me a bit. Otherwise, the beast is pretty convincing. IF I were to buy another piece of equipment, the II would be on the list right now. On the other hand, you may want to wait and see if the new Kurzweil machine is any better in price or performance. Hey, Karl! Does this mean that your Hot Cognitions album is selling like hotcakes? Steve
1886.178		SALSA::MOELLER	Guy on a strange tractor	`Mon Sep 16 1991 16:03`	3
	.. in for a dime, in for a dollar ! karl
1886.179	Keyboard Version On The Way!	RGB::ROST	Spike Lee stunt double	`Thu Sep 19 1991 10:37`	18
	From USENET. Looks like a keyboard version of Proteus is coming. From: [email protected] (Marc Sabatella) Subject: Proteus/1 keyboard Date: 17 Sep 91 16:16:49 GMT So the rumors were true - Emu has released a keyboard version of the Proteus/1, with "enhanced sounds". I'm happy with my U-20 for the kinds of things I do (scoring, and some live gigging as piano/bass), but a friend who is considering a similar set-up may be better off with this new keyboard, especially if the sounds are significantly better (the U-20 piano and bass sound better to me than the original Proteus). Has anyone played with one of these yet? List is $1595, I think, I wonder what the street price will be? -------------- Marc Sabatella - "So many drummers, so little time..." [email protected]
1886.180	oh no! another "workstation"?	DYPSS1::SCHAFER	What's on YOUR mind?	`Thu Sep 19 1991 13:06`	8
	Wish I would have read this sooner - just got off the phone with a Proteus dealer (thanx to Karl's posting) - woulda asked about it. Sweetwater Sound in Ft. Wayne is selling Proteus 1 for $650, Proteus 2 for $1050, and Proteus 1 upgrades (Emu or Protologic) for $395 installed. For what it's worth. +b
1886.181	I've "seen" it	NUTELA::CHAD	Chad, ZKO Computer Resources	`Thu Sep 19 1991 15:12`	7
	The latest Music Emporium catalog that showed up at my house has a picture of it (but says CALL for "low" price, I believe). Chad
1886.182		SALSA::MOELLER	think of it as sense,not surrender	`Thu Oct 10 1991 15:36`	12
	Question on the MIDI > PRESET remapping issue.. I understand the need for this, as there's lots more than 128 available patches/presets in this machine.. however, I hate to permanently lose use of the 'deselected' presets. The Kurzweil allows multiple RxMAPs to be created, but it looks like on the Proteus you only have one version of patch changes > preset mapping. Would it be possible to change it and save it as a SYSEX dump ? Thus giving multiple versions of the map... thanks, karl
1886.183	Yes, SYSEXE works	STKSMA::HALL	Take care of your MIDI	`Fri Oct 11 1991 11:35`	10
	The patchmap could be sent as a SYSEXE file. I don't remember if it's part of a complete memory dump, but I _think_ you can initiate a patchmap data transmit command from the MASTER menu. I'm using this to change the patchmap between a "gig_setup" and a "sequencer_setup" just loading different content from BUMP into the Proteus. Torbjorn
1886.184	That's what I do...	SKIVT::HEARN	Time will tell...	`Fri Oct 11 1991 12:40`	6
	I do exactly that - in Dr. T's as track 47 song map, track 48 is "standard" map. Mute them both (normally) and choose the one I want for 'normal' loading by un-muting it and saving the info to disk. Rich
1886.185	level and controller issues	SALSA::MOELLER	Karl has...left the building	`Fri Nov 01 1991 11:33`	19
	A comment on Proteus 2. I've been working with a Kurzweil 1000PX for a long time. That unit, like the Proteus, allows layered patches to be built from existing presets. The layers can be always there or triggered by velocity. The layered piano and strings on the 1000PX are only slightly louder than the piano alone, but the layered patches on the P2 are REALLY LOUD. I mean, LOUD. The Proteus 2 is a bit rough - many of the patches don't implement CC1, LFO wheel, as an LFO trigger, rather they get louder - as if CC1 was seen as CC7 (except that it gets louder even if CC7 = 127). Many of the patches do nice things with aftertouch, but there's no indication of that on the patch list, but I've built my own custom list anyway. karl
1886.186	bizarre	DYPSS1::SCHAFER	Will Rogers never met Metzenbaum.	`Mon Nov 04 1991 09:54`	13
	I've never noticed the additional volume nit on Proteus 1, even though I've written many multi-layer patches. Strange. I have, however, noticed the weird CC assignments, in that MOD WHEEL will cause something to fade in/out (when not at all expected to do so). I, too, found the lack of indication annoying, but what can you expect given the very small display window? Slight aside - it is entirely possible to overdrive Proteus' output stage by pointing multiple controllers to [whatever amplitude level is called]. My recollection is that it was quite unpleasant. +b
1886.187	program ? moi ?	SALSA::MOELLER	Karl has...left the building	`Mon Nov 11 1991 10:57`	8
	Another nit on the Proteus 2.. two really nice tremelo string presets (where it sounds like repeated back&forth bowing) are FLAT, as in OUT OF TUNE. Blatantly. Perhaps this is a not-so-subtle invitation by the E-Mu techs to dive in and create my own custom-tuned presets from these ? karl
1886.188	Keyboards Are Here	RGB::ROST	In search of Richard Sinclair	`Tue Dec 31 1991 15:57`	5
	The new Proteus keyboard has arrived (without much fanfare, is everybody sick of new SGUs?) here in MA, saw one today but didn't hear it or play it. Brian
1886.189		SALSA::MOELLER	Make money watching TV!..you ARE ?	`Tue Dec 31 1991 18:44`	4
	I'm not sick of new SGU's - bought a P2 recently. Got a nice keyboard controller already. karl
1886.190	InVision Protologic micro-preview	DYPSS1::SCHAFER	Will Rogers never met Metzenbaum.	`Mon Jan 06 1992 17:08`	32
	I got a chance to play with the InVision Protologic ROM expansion for the Proteus over the holidays. I haven't bought it yet, but I'm probably going to. The upgrade needs to be done by someone who knows what's going on (soldering/cutting involved), but the sounds are very decent. The new waveforms include: o organs (very good) o lots of synth-oriented samples/transients (very good) o sax and brass samples (sax is superior to P1, brass is similar) o drum kits (some great, some yawn) o shakuhachi (excellent sample, if you're not sick of it yet) o synth and plucked bass samples (killer) o distorted guitar (not as bad as Keyboard made it sound) There are also 64 (or 128 - don't remember now) additional ROM patches, most of which are very indicative of the new possibilities these new samples offer. The thing lists at $495. Sweetwater Sound (in Ft. Wayne, IN) will do it for $375 installed, so I'll probably bite in a few weeks. A slight aside - Sweetwater Sound is a real pro organization. They have very good deals on just about anything for MIDI nuts and home recording - no hype or pressure (and no guitars), since they're primarily a studio (you have to call for an appointment to visit the showroom!). The owner is named Chuck, and he's real reasonable and was very pleased that we might be interested doing business with him. Mention my name (or, after tomorrow, DECMS) and they'll "make sure we get a good deal". +b
1886.191		SALSA::MOELLER	Bj�rn to be Bj�d	`Mon Jan 06 1992 19:13`	7
	re the Protologic - that's for Proteus/1, right ? Re the distorted guitar - even thin-sounding samples can sound great with added beef from an EQ, then run thru a distortion device like a Rockman.. karl
1886.192	8 is enough	DYPSS1::SCHAFER	Will Rogers never met Metzenbaum.	`Tue Jan 07 1992 10:11`	21
	Basically, once you hit 8Mb, you're done. Since Proteus can only address 8Mb of ROM, it certainly follows that Proteus/2 (which already has 8Mb) can't use the InVision board. (P1 comes with 4Mb ROM.) Incidentally, the Emu P1 upgrade is also a 4Mb board, but consists of "selected" samples from P2 ROM. As for the "thin" guitar (as stated in Keyboard), I think they were a bit harsh. It's a squeaky-clean sample, so perhaps the thinness is due to sheer lack of grit. If I had a gripe about Proteus, it would be that the samples are almost too clean (e.g., sans Ensoniq grunge). Have you seen the ads for the P3? P1 is the "pop-synth" unit, P2 is the "orchestral" unit, and P3 is supposedly the "world" unit. They're really milking this, aren't they?? Slight aside - I picked up a Kurzweil 1000PX while waiting for the release of Proteus, thinking that I'd get rid of the Kurzweil. Now that I have them both, it's pretty amazing how well the two units play together. More complementary than competitive, IMO. +b
1886.193	good combination, KZ1000PX and Proteus/2	SALSA::MOELLER	Bj�rn to be Bj�d	`Tue Jan 07 1992 10:54`	14
	> Slight aside - I picked up a Kurzweil 1000PX while waiting for the >release of Proteus, thinking that I'd get rid of the Kurzweil. Now >that I have them both, it's pretty amazing how well the two units play >together. More complementary than competitive, IMO. I agree. I use the Kurzweil 1000PX with added -B block for foundation tracks and usually relegate the Proteus/2 to the role of additional orchestration. The different ambience of the samples really works well together. Plus I get to then play with the 1000+ sounds available on floppy for the old EMAX. 32+24+8 voices available.. perhaps I'll sell the 8track. karl
1886.194	Proteus Editor/Lib for Mac (demo online)	RGB::ROST	A distortion of the need to feed	`Thu Feb 06 1992 09:56`	39
	From USENET: From: [email protected] (Bernd Gill) Subject: PROTEUS Patch Editor/Librarian available Date: 3 Feb 92 22:16:05 GMT Organization: Dept. of Comp. Sci., Victoria Uni. of Wellington, New Zealand. Over the last few months I have developed a Patch Editor/Librarian for the E-mu Proteus. It currently supports the Proteus/1, Proteus/2 and XR's. The program runs on any Macintosh SE or higher with System 6.0 or later. The main features are: - Easy programming of all patch parameters - Step by step modification of patches and instant replay - Easy customisation of sound banks - Supports on-screen keyboard or external MIDI controller keyboard - Patches and banks can be saved to disk in several formats for subsequent loading into sequencers. Formats are: standard MIDI, hexadecimal, decimal and binary. - Bank mapping - Can be configured to recognise add-on boards like the InVision Protologic - Works with and without Apple's MidiManager (MidiManager is recommended, though) - System 7 compatible - Balloon help under System 7 For those interested, a demo version is available via anonymous ftp from ftphost.comp.vuw.ac.nz (130.195.5.12) in pub/mac/ProteusDemo0.9.hqx A full version is available for US$ 39.00. -- Bernd Gill Dept. of Computer Science Victoria University of Wellington Email: [email protected] Wellington, NEW ZEALAND Phone: +64-4-471-5328, Fax: +64-4-495-5232
1886.195		SALSA::MOELLER	Three-day Weekends. Pass it on.	`Thu Feb 06 1992 12:16`	24
	A comment on a reply from the U220 topic.. Roberto, In My Humble Opinion you should think twice about purchasing a Proteus ___-XR. They're much more expensive, have NO more sounds, just giving you more empty RAM slots in which to create your own sounds from those already loaded. So unless you plan to create a LOT of your own sounds, I don't think it's worth it. Also, if you're using a sequencer to drive the Proteus module multitimbrally, remember that you can only address 128 patches directly thru MIDI patch changes. A comment on the sounds in the Proteus/2. I've been working with this unit for a while and it's actually improving my orchestration skills. All the sounds are very crisp and cutting ... one COULD say 'thin sounding', but that's too harsh. But if I want a string pad, even though there's LOTS of string sounds, there isn't one that's appropriate for a smooth background string chordal section. So what this forces me to do (assuming I don't devolve to the Kurzweil strings) is to really ARRANGE the parts much more rigorously than I might if I had mushy, slow attack, reverbed strings available. And then there's the horns.. karl
1886.196	Yes?	DRUMS::FEHSKENS	len, EMA, LKG1-2/W10	`Thu Feb 06 1992 13:28`	7
	re .195 "And then there's the horns.." Please, say more. About the only new box I have any interest in is a Proteus 2, for "imitative" use. len.
1886.197	P2 horns	SALSA::MOELLER	Three-day Weekends. Pass it on.	`Thu Feb 06 1992 13:39`	26
	Okay, len.. for you. there's a wide assortment of horns in the P2, woodwinds and brass. The woodwinds are superb, with a couple of 'ensemble' layered presets that work very well with MY technique.. the English Horn is stunning, some nice, not-detuned soft French horns. Soft and 'chiffy' flutes that I don't use since the same sounds are available on the KZ sound block 'B'. The brass ensembles, both 'background' and 'bright' brass, are problematic for MY technique. The solo brass samples SOUND good, and include everything you might want except saxaphone (I know, it's not a 'real' symphony instrument). Tuba, trombones, which sound crappy without pitchbend. Good trumpet assortment, including a great Harmon mute trumpet.. I recently did a piece called "Spinning In His Grave" which sounds like a 'Bitches Brew' era Miles piece featuring the Harmon mute trumpet.. I even used MIDI cc10, pan control, to walk the trumpet back and forth across the 'stage'.. ;-) Never having worked in a horn band not studied arranging for brass, I have little sense for phrasing or voicing this stuff. Unlike strings, where a little imagination spreading out the voicings gives very convincing ensemble sounds, my best efforts at brass, despite the availiability of superb samples, sound like an accordion. The only variation is whether it sounds like an asthmatic accordion or one on steroids. karl
1886.198	Blowing your own horn	DREGS::BLICKSTEIN	Soaring on the wings of dawn	`Fri Feb 07 1992 10:09`	39
	re: .197 (Moeller) I had pretty much the same experience with my first attempt at doing a synthetic horn section. In fact, the way you described it (sounding like an accordion) really struck a familiar bell. I think I wrote on note on here on my (somewhat sophomoric) observations in trying to put together horn parts. A couple of things I learned: 1) Horn parts tend to be very conservative wtih regard to voicings. Full voicings rarely seemed to "work" for me. I had far more success with VERY sparse voicings and even octaves. 2) Flat samples produce flat parts. By "flat" I mean an absence of articulation. The most convincing results I had were by piecing parts together from different samples (stabs, spits, staccato, etc.). But I also found that if you create a patch that allows you to generate such articulation - via velocity, pressure, mod wheel and on my Ensoniq, "Patch select" - you can shorten/simplify the process quite a bit. 3) Play in distinct phrases. As a keyboard player, it's often easy to forget that horn players, unlike digital synths, must take a breath every so often. 4) Try also to do some of the things that horn players do that are somewhat harder on keyboards. Like sliding into and off of notes. 5) Listen to as many horn sections as you can. I think I learned quite a bit from listening to the Tower of Power horn section. I also think that the current "tour-de-force" of synthetic horns is without-a-doubt Madonna's "Hanky Panky". It cooks and is incredibly realistic.
1886.199	several questions	GLOWS::COCCOLI	watch that spin cycle..	`Sun Feb 09 1992 13:25`	12
	Anyone have a current price quote on the stock Proteus?. Also, how are the drums assigned on it?. Does, for example, a drum set take one of the 16 midi channels (not unlike the Roland D10/110)?. Thanks in advance... RichC