Conference napalm::commusic_v1

    If it t'were me, I'd go with the 38.
    
    You'll probably outgrow the mixer quickly (channels begat buss
    desires) and want an outboard mixer anyhow. For the $1000 delta
    you can buy a Roland M160 and have 4 busses. (bussi?)
    
    ...and I think few would dispute the aural advantages of 1/2"
    vs 1/4". Huge? No. Discernable? Yeah...
    
    Edd

    
    
    Edd hit the nail on the head.  Sooner or later, you'll outgrow
    the mixing capabilies of the 388.  With the 38 and an outboard
    mixer, you can always expand.  I started with an 8x4 board with
    my 38, then bought another 8x4 to give me 16 input channels, and
    now I'm looking at a 20 or 24 channel board in the not too distant
    future cuz I'm out of inputs for the synths and drum machine.
    
    If you're not concerned with the price of 1/2" tape, I'd say go
    with the 38, and you'll have the basis of a good system.  Of
    course, until you decide 8 tracks ain't enough and you want
    16!! :^)
    
    Ralph
    
    

    
    I'm not familiar with the 388, but tape 'speed' should also influence
    your decision along with compatibility.  Should you want to complete
    your recordings in a more professional studio, you'd probably find
    1/2" 8-track more of a convention.  I totally agree with the previous
    replies.
    
    My 38 is still a power-house/work-horse.  With all the sequencing
    and midi software out now, I can still expand being as I'm not locked
    into a mixer.
    
    dc

    
    Thanks for the replies, it's looks like it's going to 
    be an easier decision than I thought.  
    
    You guys have convinced me to go with the 38.  Now, if
    I was to look for a used Tascam 38.  What are some of things
    I should watch out for so that I don't get stuck with a lemon.
    
    And how much should I expect to pay for one?  Is $1700 to $2000
    in the ballpark.
    
    -John-
    

	well, speaking as the owner of a 388, I'd better clear up some 
	misconceptions.

	The 388 does use 1/4" tape, to be sure. But it also has dbx type I
	on each channel. The quality, to be sure, is discernable with the
	dbx disabled, but frankly, I demoed the two side by side and you
	really have to have a super amp and speakers to tell the difference.

	The mixer in the 388 is only eight channels. This is admittedly
	a limitation, but it is stackable directly, it has two eff sends,
	and it has parametric eq's on each channel. It also has a separate
	mixer for monitor. Yes, it is as quiet as any other TASCAM mixer in
	it's class (pro-class).

	The 388 is especially good for MIDI applications, since it has the
	synch track dbx defeat, and SMPTE expansion capability. 

	I suppose this is overkill, but the current configuration in the
	studio got around some of the limitations of the 388 by stacking
	mixer channels all over the place. The keyboards all mix into the
	m-160, and everything from the studio proper goes into a Soundtracs
	24-channel board, with the 4 outputs of the Soundtracs going to the
	388. The output from the M-160 can either patch to the Soundtracs
	or directly to the 388, or directly to the 32-2 if necessary. I'm
	not recommending either way, but when we decided on the 388 it was
	because it has all the pieces we want for a MIDI studio. By the way
	all of this stuff is pretty noiseless (except for a couple of
	signal sources like the midibass and vocoder) until we hit tape,
	and we still only pick up noise when we hit cassette.

	Whatever. If you expect to spend 6000 bucks, get a 38 and a nice
	mixer. If you're spending 3000 bucks and you don't need 16 channels
	of mixing yet, the 388 works fine. If you need 16 channels of mixing
	then you should consider getting a line mixer. All IMO, take it or 
	leave it.

    One of the other noters ran into the following problem with his
    38...
    
    When checking out a 38, have the owner mount a tape and play it.
    Listen to it for a while and ask them to stop the tape. You'll
    want to notice if the owner habitually 'relaxes' the tension on
    the tape. 
    
    Failure to do so can lead to premature bearing failure as the capstan
    motors turn whenever there is tension on the arms. Relaxing the
    tape allows the arms to fall and consequently stop the motors from
    turning needlessly.
    
    Not a definitive test by any means but you don't want to be replacing
    bearings in 2 months...
    
    Edd
    

    
    I've seen 38s advertised new for under 3k.  I bought mine for 3200
    about 3-4 years ago.  I wouldn't pay more than about 17-1800 for
    one used.
    
    If you buy used, look closely at the heads to see if they are worn.
    If they appear to have a slight flat area where the tape passes,
    avoid the machine.  Heads are over $1000. to replace.  You'd be
    better off putting that money into a better deck.  Also fast-forward
    and fast-rewind to check if the reels wobble or the hubs aren't
    aligned properly.  Although this can be service-adjusted, it could
    be an extra expense... unless its still under warrantee through
    the owner.  Last, I would record and play-back a tone to check VU
    metering.  You could use a a synthesizer to generate a clear
    "clarinet-type" voice if you don't happen to have an alignment tape.
    All VUs should sync the same tone at or close to 0... playback should
    be similar to what you recorded.
    
    dc

    
    
    Another suggestion when asking the seller to play a tape on
    the deck is to notice whether or not they cleaned it.  If not,
    ask them to clean it in front of you.  There should be very
    little if any oxide residue on the q-tip at all.  If they're
    wiping off lots of gunk, you know that the head haven't been
    well cared for.  Cleaning and degaussing is one of my pet peaves
    with my deck.  It should be done religously. 
    
    Edds suggestion is a very good one.  I know someone who leaves his
    deck on even if he's out of the studio for a couple of hours and
    he leaves the tension arms up.  Consequently, he's always wondering
    why he's replaced bearings twice in a year and I've never had to
    do it in 1� years of owning my deck.
    
    As far as prices, I've seen used 38's from $1500 on up.  When I
    was shopping for one 1� years ago, I got a new price of $2200.
    That may be a bit different now.  Don't pay more than 17-1800
    for a deck in brand new condition.  You should be able to find
    one for that or less.  I got mine for $1600 in great condition.
    
    Ralph
    
    

    I've had a 38 for 2 1/2 years.  I was the one Edd mentioned whose
    capstan burned out.  It cost $125 to fix so I don't leave the
    capstan spinning any more than necessary.
    
    I originally bought it for $2300 mail order.  The first mixer I
    had was a Tascam 312 (12 chan, 4 buss, 8 mon inputs, 2 effects sends)
    which cost around 2k.  I outgrew it after a year and after much
    pain and creative financing bought an Aries 24-8-16 (24 chan, 8
    buss, 16 mon inputs, 4 effects sends, many other features).  Also,
    I don't like the EQ on Tascam boards and I don't like to gang mixers
    up.  A patch panel is an absolute necessity with a larger rig.
    I'm really glad I got a large mixer, especially with all the inputs
    that tape returns, effects returns and MIDI modules suck up.  In the 
    Want Ad, I found 8 channels of dbx for $350.
    
    How much can you afford to spend?
    
    Dave
    
    

    Another vote for the 38.  I got mine new during a price war, and
    only paid $2100 for it, as part of a package deal.
    
    Part of the package was 2 DX-4Ds, Tascam's dbx unit designed for the
    38.  With the dbx NR, I get about 95 db S/N.  This is CD quality.
    You will get about 70 db S/N with the 388's NR.  Is 25 db significant?
    It's the difference between audible and inaudible noise.
    
    I also routinely untension the tape when I stop the transport. 
    Good advice.
    
    len.
     

    
    Are you sure Len?  How fast does the 38 run?  I can't see how a
    388 at 15 ips on 14" tape vs. a 38 at 15 ips on 1/2" tape could
    be 25 db different in S/N.  I would expect only 3-6 dB.  ?????

    Are the 38 electronics *that* much better to account for the other
    20 db?
    

    The 388 is not 15 ips, it's only 7.5 ips.  The 38 is 15 ips.  Take
    it up with Tascam; the spec'ed performance of the 38 without N/R
    is 65 db S/N.  The dbx gives it an additional 30 db.  My understanding
    of the 388's S/N was that it was about 65 db with dbx.
    
    Yes, theoretically twice the speed and twice the width should only
    mean 12 db of difference.
    
    Must be my recollection of the 388's S/N is faulty.
    
    len.
    

    CD quality?? Well, a 38 with N/R may be pretty quiet hiss-wise,
    but NOT CD quality. There's a pretty good noise floor to the
    electronics without any tape running! 
    
    Still, it's a good work-horse machine. I can't imagine using it
    without noise reduction, though, so factor that into the total cost
    (we are selling ours for $1900, but it has upgraded motors in it).
    Which brings up a point to look for in used 38's...some years had
    bad motors (this would be in the 1985 area, roughly). Ours needed
    new motors after 3 months! Tascam was nice to deal with, and they
    put in motors from a 48 (couldn't get 38 motors at the time).  I
    understand that some 38's rewind r-e-a-l-l-y  s-l-o-w, so check
    out it's rewind speed with a full reel of tape on it!
    
    If you buy new..do a thorough check out immediately. Maybe it's
    been bad luck, but our last 3 tascam purchases had manufacturing
    problems  (the above mentioned 38, a MSR-16 16 track that had a
    malfunctioning vari-speed circuit, and a MS-16 HS 16 track that
    had a tape speed problem and was also assembled incorrectly). ARe
    there other Tascam horror stories out there??  I don't want to knock
    their engineering, it's great value for the money (our new MS-16,
    which runs at 30 ips, sounds really wonderful without N/R).  But
    the Q/C seems to be lacking!
    
    One other product that I'm surprised no-one has mentioned is the
    Akai 12 track. Is sounds MUCH better than the 1/2" 8 tracks, had
    the internal sync track, autolocator, N/R, etc. It's about $4000,
    but as a step up from the 8 track world, it can't be beat. We would
    have bought one (with the option to buy another and sync them up
    to be 24 track), but since we run a commercial studio, the inability
    to 'handle' the tape was a detrement (plus tape cost).
    
    Pat
    

    The problem with the Akai is that it uses a non-standard and uncommon
    tape cartridge. Had they used any of Beta, VHS or 8mm tapes, I would
    consider it a reasonable choice. At the moment I'm pondering the 38
    versus the 338 issue also (money to spend this summer!!).

							Jens