Conference napalm::commusic_v1

RE < Note 1836.0 by AQUA::ROST "Marshall rules but Fender controls" >

	I had both of these at one time.  I found I had specific uses for each 
one.  The MSQ would hold its data in memory for an incredibly long time (semi-
non-volatile - it says it would lose its memory after a time, I think), so I 
used it at gigs (always carried a data tape, though!).  It had some nice 
features like re-channelization and channel delete that made it a good easy
tool to work with.  It did, however, require explicit bar lines if you wanted
to do any of its limited editing.

	The QX-7 was the one I did the most detailed work on.  Since it had a 
main track and a sub-track, you could try a section out and if it didn't work
you could do it over without hurting anything.  It also has a buffer track
that can be used as a third location to store things.  In the hands of an
experienced programmer, the QX-7 could be quite versatile.  The QX, by the way,
had more memory than the MSQ (8100 events vs. 6100, if memory serves [yuk] -
that's without recording velocity).

	Both units are definately good sequencers and have their own qualities
that makew them admirable for their time.  If you use a good deal of patience
and ingenuity, you can do a lot with them.

	I wouldn't pay more than $100 for either of them, though.

	Dan

    
    Some questions:
    
    1.  Do I understand correctly that the MSQ only allows bar level
    edits (i.e. you have to replace the entire bar?)
    
    2.  Can you get around the single track probklem of the MSQ by saving
    memory every time you have a part you like (i.e. once you have the
    bass line, save to tape, then add a second part, if you don't like
    the second part, reload the saved bass line, etc. ?)
    
    3.  The MSQ will do FSK tape sync and the QX will not?
    
    4.  Channel delete on the MSQ means that if I put a scratch track of
    some sort on a MIDI channel that I can delete that scratch track
    without affecting anything else in the MIDI stream?  I understand
    the QX cannot do this?
    
    5.  Now that you do your work on a C64, Dan, what sequencer do you
    use in live performance?
    
    I am currently leaning towards the MSQ as I can get one in a package deal
    with a TR505 for about $50.   I will probably have to spend closer
    to $90 for the QX.  Boy am I a cheap skate.
    
    						Brian
    
    				

    The QX-7 also only allows you to edit at the bar level. I've generally
    not found this to be a problem, WITH ONE EXCEPTION. Any events started
    and not completed (PBs, tied notes, etc.) are truncated when you
    delete the measure. Note offs appear where the tie was, pitch bends
    'hang', etc.
    
    The QX will hold its' memory for about 2 days before it goes brain
    dead.
    
    I was using mine live. It's workable, but really isn't all that
    easy. There's no readout for tempo, so I was constantly tweaking
    the speed and saying "Howzat?"
    
    I agree with Dan. $100 is top dollar. (I shudder to think what I
    paid 3 years ago... But then, I've got ALOT of work outta mine.)
    
    Edd

RE < Note 1836.2 by AQUA::ROST "Marshall rules but Fender controls" >

>    1.  Do I understand correctly that the MSQ only allows bar level
>    edits (i.e. you have to replace the entire bar?)

	Yes.
    
>    2.  Can you get around the single track probklem of the MSQ by saving
>    memory every time you have a part you like ...

	Yes.  That's what I was alluding to when I mentioned patience and 
ingenuity.  It works just fine to do it that way.  It just takes time.
    
>    3.  The MSQ will do FSK tape sync and the QX will not?

	I believe you are correct.
    
>    4.  Channel delete on the MSQ means that if I put a scratch track of
>    some sort on a MIDI channel that I can delete that scratch track
>    without affecting anything else in the MIDI stream?  

	You got it.

>	I understand the QX cannot do this?

	Edd can probably tell you better, as he's worked a lot longer with the
QX than I have.  From what I understand, there's no explicit way to do this on
the QX, but it may be possible to do using some of the lesser documented 
features.  Edd?
    
>    5.  Now that you do your work on a C64, Dan, what sequencer do you
>    use in live performance?

	On those few occasions when I get out these days, I use the MIDI DJ
hardware sequencer.
    
	$50 for an MSQ would be good.  I'm sure it would be worth it to you.

	Dan

	Some corrections...

	I looked in my files and found that the MSQ only sends synch on a 
five-pin DIN cable to other devices that recieve that kind of thing.  I
don't know if you could adapt the signal sent out on this to play to tape or
not...

	Also, it appears that the QX DOES have a channel delete function.

	Another nice feature of the QX is that it has a mode that monitors
whatever comes over the midi network.  It can be nice if you need to debug a
network problem.

	Dan  

    > Edd?
    
    Nope, you can't do that. Once data has been 'merged' on the QX,
    it can't be separated. I've got plenty of sequences around  with
    {ahem} 'alternate' tracks buried in the MIDI stream. (I decided
    I didn't like the bass line which was on channel 2, so I re-
    recorded it on channel 3 and just ignored 2.)
    
    Edd

    LaSalle's (Boston) was selling some QX-?'s for aprox. $150.  Anyone
    recall what model?  If it is more sequencer than the -7, it might be
    a good deal.
    
    	Eirikur
    

    The MSQ-100 DIN sync is useful only with other old Roland devices.
    It cannot be used as a tape sync.
    
    I still have my MSQ-100; it's useful as additional "outboard" MIDI
    storage, i.e., as a buffer for complex edits, when connected to
    another sequencer.  If you want a copy of the manual before you
    buy, send me mail and I'll xox you one.
    
    len.
    

    FWIW, I have a QX7 as my main sequencer. (paid $175 4 years ago).
    It has useful editing functions for single tracks, although once
    you merge things onto the aux track, its indelible. I believe the
    qx-? you are refering to is the QX-21, which is a clone of the QX7
    with more note memory, and a memory which holds longer.
    I use my QX7 with the YMC-10 FSK sync box, and have had no problems
    with tape sync.
    
    	When I get a computer based sequencer, I think I will use the
    QX7 as a carry-along when I play outside. (Ill play the computer
    into the QX7, and then use casettes to load each song)
    Its a small powerful unit, but dwarfed by the computer based
    packages.
    
    My friend has a QX5, and a PC-based setup, and he swears by the
    QX5 FWIW. (I may buy his unused MPU401 soon!)
    
    Pete
    

    
    Another QX5 maniac here.  Rave reviews from me too.
    As a compositional tool it's great. 
    Holds 'nuff for performing....(varying mileage)
    
    Price right.
    
    And now theres a version with a disk too (???)
    
    ron
    

    Ditto on the QX5.  I *love* mine.  Great compositional tool.  I'd
    rather have an MC-500, but for the bucks I'm pretty happy.  The
    new version with the disk is like more than twice as expensive.
    I think I'd go for the MC-500.  Tape dumps from the QX5 have been
    pretty reliable, even with cheapie tapes.  Gobs of nice editing
    functions.
    
    Steve

RE < Note 1836.10 by LEDDEV::ROSS "shiver me timbres...." >

>    And now theres a version with a disk too (???)

	Tha's right.  I have a brochure on it right here.

	The only troubling thing in my mind about most hardware sequencers
on the market (including the new QX-5) is that they are still not optimal for
performance.  It may not take as much time to load a song from disk as it does
from tape, but it still takes time and fumbling.  That's why I stick with the
MIDI DJ.  It has problems, to be sure, but it has a performance mode that
automatically brings up the next song on the disk in 5 seconds and awaits
start command.  Even the stingiest of audiences should give you five seconds of
applause, no?

	The only other hardware sequencer I know of that has anything close to 
this is the MC-500, and that's only with special aftermarket software.  Is that
right, Len?

	Dan

    
    List price on the QX5 with disk is over $1K.
    
    MSQ-100 is about $50.
    
    I'm cheap.
    
    

    re .12 - I don't know about "aftermarket", as there's at least 5
    different software systems for the MC-500, but yes, one of them
    is a "performance" package.  The new S-MRC software allows you to
    create a disk that holds only songs, but you still have to boot
    the system from a system disk (presumably once a night before you
    start performing).  You can load a whole set's worth of songs
    (up to 8 songs, 100000 *notes*) nto an MC-500 Mark II automatically
    from disk during set breaks.  8 songs isn't really quite enough
    for a set (you'd really like at least 12, and 16 would be best),
    but if you can afford a minute or so between songs someplace in the
    set you could probably survive.
    
    A 12500 note song is a hairy song; that's twice as much as an MSQ-100
    or MSQ-700 would hold in total!
    
    len.
    

RE < Note 1836.14 by DRUMS::FEHSKENS >

	Maybe 'aftermarket'  is the wrong term.  But yes, that is what I was
talking about.

	Dan

    It takes abouty 15 seconds to load (to 85% capacity - that's all that
    the disk will hold) an MMT-8 sequencer from the Yamaha Quick Disk (2.8
    inch drive - 60KB per side on the disk - and only $3.50 to $6.00 each -
    ouch!!!). I can get up to 6 complete songs into the MMT-8 at any one
    time (all drum parts are in the MMT-8 also). I find that there seems
    to be no possible way to organize the songs on a disk such that you get
    them in the right order for actual live performance, altho, I seem to
    be able to get 2 on occasion. 15 seconds seems like an eternity to me.
    5 seconds would be better.

    I see lots of people using QX-21's out in clubs. I've never even seen
    a MIDI DJ (but tried to locate one before buying the MMT-8). I tried
    a QX-7 & all it did was make me mad (I like to edit things).

    Wholesale on an MMT-8 is around $200.00. A friend of mine recently
    bought one for $211.00.

    Remember, what ever sequencer that you will probably pi$$ you off
    eventually, If you want the headaches, buy a cheap one, if you want
    flexability, go check out the competition.

							    Jens

    My fondest memory of a QX-7 is the wonderfulfully satisfying "crunch"
    it makes when you hammer-fist it through a table.
    
    It deserved it!  It was during a gig and the %^&%*QX-7 kept starting
    itself. (suspect thermal problem).  The lead KB hit "stop" three
    times, only to have it restart itself a few seconds later.
    
    He calmly started playing on _another_ kb rack, and said over the
    PA "Kill that F*CKER!".  The audience saw this arm swing out
    from behind the on-stage board and hammer-fist the QX-7 a few times, then
    yank a handful of cables out of the back of it.
    
    THAT got a round of applause...
                                                           
    	-Bill