Conference napalm::commusic_v1

RE < Note 1828.0 by SOS6::RAMA >

	I've gotten some of the best organ patches out of FM synthesis.  I have
a Yamaha TX81Z and a Yamaha DX100, both of which use 4 operator, 8 algorythm
FM synthesis.  I'd imagine a Yamaha DX7 or its brethren would do even better.

	Dan

There are a few hundred public domain organ sounds available for DX7's. Lots 
of pipe sounds and such. It could be worth a try.

Geoff

    I personally prefer the classical organs made by oscillator/filter
    type synths (i.e. Oberheim, Ensoniq).  Cranking up the resonance
    in the filter and cranking down the number of poles really pulls
    in that "Cathedral Rumble" that's missing from the FM synths.
    
    This isn't to say that DX organ sounds are bad- they are actually
    quite decent and usable.  They just aren't quite as hard-core 
    cathedral organy.
    
    -----
    
    All bets are off if you use any outboard signal processing... even
    a Casio SK-1 organ sounds pretty darn good if you run it through
    a MicroVerb set on Huge Room. :-)
    
    Yeah, that's the ticket.  Get ANY synth and a MicroVerb.  Epoxy
    the knob on the MicroVerb to "huge room" and then Velcro it to the
    back of the synth.  It'll sound great and no one will notice the
    little box.

    Organs are a really fun thing to synthesize.  With any decent
    synthesizer you can come up with entirely different types of pipe and
    reed sounds.  A DX or even a CZ (with a real keyboard) a chorus box
    (maybe internal to the synth) and the aforementioned Microverb will
    knock the socks off of any organ a single human being can afford.
    
    Even if you are a novice, you will find modifying and creating organ
    sounds to be among the easiest tasks on any synth.
    
    Buy more synthesizer than you know that you need though.  There's
    nothing worse than running out of resources: "Damn, if I could only
    clone this rank and detune it...."  Stay away from home-type keyboards
    where you pay for the beat-box and the built-in speakers.  Most of
    those units are inflexible and lack the basic sound quality
    (frequency response) that makes for a satisfying organ.
    
    	Eirikur, the closet organ freak.
    (Now if only I could find a MIDI retrofit for a Farfisa...)
    

    I've got about a dozen pipe organ sounds for my ESQ-1.
    
    They all sound really good, however I'd give some serious thought
    to buying a sampler if all you are interested in is realistic
    organ sounds.  I have some really great pipe organ samples for
    my Roland sampler that are MUCH MUCH better than any synthetic
    approximation I've heard.
    
    You can get a Roland sampler for as little as $800 these days which
    might well be less than any of the synths that have been mentioned.
    
    	db

    Re .5: I take it all back, db is right.  I always did lust after the
    Royal Festival Hall organ.  And I can afford a sampler.....
    
    	Eirikur
    

    I have all those DX7 patches, but the Kawai K5 has pipe organ patches
    which blow them away.  You should give it a listen.   Note however,
    that most of the good pipe patches are hidden in the depths of their
    sound library (that is, not on the two banks that are shipped with
    the instrument).
    
    What really puts the K5 over the top, for organ simulation, is the ease
    with which you may create different combinations of the sounds and
    switch between them in real time, using the ``multi'' feature.  This
    allows nice, arbitrary (well, almost) stop changes which can be managed
    by the player. 
    
    Steph        
    

When I was looking around, the thing that impressed me the most was the
Cathedral Organ patch opn the D50.  Also on card 3 or 4 by Roland is good
sound. 

Chad

Of all of the Mirage disks I've heard, the factory pipe organ disk is
one of the best.  And, of the pipe-organ sounds I've heard from other
machines, it's still one of the best.  For an 'n rank pipe-organ, that
is.  The DOUBLE mode pipe organ on the OB8 was always great, but alas,
only 4 notes.

So, I guess the pernt is that samplers are definitely very high in the
running...

My 2�...

andy

    Francis:
    	I too come from a classical organ background, having been a
    church organist and been a choirboy in a cathedral for four years.
    If that is the sound you are after, I hate to pop your bubble, but
    no synth is going to give you that.  As Steve mentioned in .7, the
    KAWAI K5 has some good organ sounds and it is fairly easy to get
    to them, but you will need reverb (and lots of it).  The ROLAND
    D110 also has a couple decent patches, but again they need help.
    I have never heard anything else that didn't sound "electric", which
    is OK if you are trying to get a HAMMOND organ sound.
    
    	db makes an excellent point in .5 about considering a sampler.
     If you really want a realistic pipe organ sound you will have to
    go this route.  I have heard the Mirage sounds mentioned in .9 and
    they are impressive.  I thought I was listening to a pipe organ
    and that was without any reverb!  Give a listen to all of the above
    and judge for yourself.  You are going to have to make some compri-
    mises, but given what else you get get from a good synth, its worth
    it.  Keep in mind that if your synth has a flexible enough architec-
    ture you will be able to "build" your own stops from scratch, and
    then combine these just as you would in a real organ.  To do this,
    you may want to find synths with realistic flute, reed, and brass
    sounds.  Again, the K5 and/or D110 might be good places to start.
    (I can vouch for these two because I own them :-) )
    
    Santa Clusters,
    Bill Allen @MPO

    Just a quick comment on why many of us all seem to think that our
    favorite (mumble) synth architecture does good organ sounds: Most
    sythesizer architectures are reasonably good at creating static spectra
    (timbres) but fall down in terms of dynamicly changing spectra.  On an
    organ there is no velocity (or are you going to hurt me and bring up
    trackers) and the only real event during a note is the chiff before the
    pipe settles down into its major mode.  Most synths can make almost any
    static timbre; add reverb and you've got a decent organ.  You have to
    get the chiff right, and some detuning for those of us who have heard
    the real thing, but that's about all.  
    
    This bit about the dynamic changes being the hard part is why more
    operators=better in the DX (Y-something?) world, and more modulation
    options (and more modulators) is better in the classic
    occilators/filters world.
    
    Pedantic tonight.  Hmmm.
    
    	Eirikur
    		(Gee, my static wavetable machine makes a pretty good
    organ...)
    

    Actually, I've used my lowly CZ-101 for organ parts.  I actually
    like it ...
    
    Steve

Re: .8

Yup.  #38 on the D50 is so far the best I have heard.  I could have played
that for hours without getting tired.   Of course you need a good dozen other
patches for other common organ stops. 

Alex