Conference napalm::commusic_v1

    I did a Mozart Sonata (K.303).
    
    ...zat count?
    
    Edd

    Once upon a time I sequenced the first 53 bars of the first movement
    of the 6th Brandenburg.  Then I ran out of memory.  Now I can't
    read the data tape that I saved the data on.
    
    No big deal, right?  Only 53 bars.  Of 6 parts.  4 of which are
    almost continuous 16th notes.  The other 2 of which are continuous
    8th notes.  About 3800 notes.  All step time sequenced.
    
    Can't wait to do it again...
    
    len.
    

Hmm.  Here on my desk I have the scores to Brandenburg No.5, plus the Mozart
concerto for piano and orchestra in C, K467.  It took me about an hour
to enter the first 8 measures of the Brandenburg.  Five parts.  (I left
out the violone as it mostly doubled the cello, and haven't dived into the
figured bass harpsichord continuo part yet.)  The first movement is 237
measures, of which 65 measures is the harpsichord cadenza, which is almost
entirely 32nd notes.  So it should only take me another 24 hours solid to
enter the first movement.  Well, maybe it will go faster once I learn how
to read viola clef.  Oh boy, does this look like fun.

Oh yeah, and I have to simplify parts so the whole thing can be played by
my 8-voice FB01.

(Actually I have these scores to learn more about orchestration, and as
a source for "quotations".)

If I want to listen to Bach, I'll put on my Christopher Hogwood records.

>    < Note 1695.4 by DFLAT::DICKSON "Koyaanisqatsi" >
>                              -< Too many notes >-
>
>Hmm.  Here on my desk I have the scores to Brandenburg No.5, plus the Mozart
>concerto for piano and orchestra in C, K467.  It took me about an hour
>to enter the first 8 measures of the Brandenburg.  Five parts.  (I left
>out the violone as it mostly doubled the cello, and haven't dived into the
>figured bass harpsichord continuo part yet.)  The first movement is 237
>to read viola clef.  Oh boy, does this look like fun.

Moeller will crucify for typing, because you're just entering a piece
    from the score.  I guess he crucifies Hogwood for just "playing",
    instead of composiing something of his on paper, which, come to
    think of it, Moeller doesn't do either.  
    You wouldn't have to become perfect at reading alto clef if you
    had an Amiga with Deluxe Music, because it displays a score on screen
    and has alto and tenor clef and clef changes per bar per line.
    You drop the notes from the pallette onto the score, and as you
    do, you hear it play, see the keyboard key light up on the screen,
    and see it position itself in the score.  
    Tom

    Do we have to start this horsecrap again?  >8-(

-b

>                         -< set moderator.  {grumble} >-

>    Do we have to start this horsecrap again?  >8-(

What does this refer to? Why the profanity? Why the fierce face? Why the
grumble? why, why, why????????????????????????????????

    No profanity.  Grumpy face simply because I'm tired of seeing these two
    guys egg each other on.  If they wanna continue, I can always next
    unseen, I guess. 

    Sorry if I offended anyone.

-b

    You don't offend me, Shafer, but then I don't offend me either 8-).
    I was making an allusion to Moeller's review of me on commusic vi,
    in which he called me a typist for putting in a printed score into
    a computer.  Never mind I had to expand the ornaments in an urtext
    and select on instrument and dynamics.  
    Tom

 
    re last few:  but this is clearly the wave of the future.  Until
    scores are published in MIDI format, or somebody bulds a machine
    that reads music and outputs MIDI, the easiest way to disemploy
    "classical" musicians is to sequence (i.e., "type in") scores.
    I suppose this must seem less valid to some people than recording
    a performance, but I'm not sure I understand why.  Must be organic
    machines and analog instuments that make validity?
    
    Be that as it may, I second Brad's desire to avoid the opportunity
    to witness yet another Tom vs. Karl verbal duel.
    
    Hmm, maybe Tom's onto something.  I can forego having to tweak up
    my funny clef reading "skills" by just mousing the 6th Brandenburg
    into my Amiga's DMCS, then dump the data to my MC-500 for "performance"
    purposes.  Very clever.  I wonder if the Amiga has enough memory
    for the whole first movement. 
                                                      
    len.
    

    memory on amiga: i have entered a piece 40 minutes ca. 
    8 notes/second.
    I think it was 200000 bytes.
    It could have been somewhat longer.
    I forgetthe limit.
    Tomp

    I wish to apologize publicly to Karl Moeller.  I implied that he
    called entering Bach into a sequencer "typing."  That is incorrect.
    Dickson called it typing exercises.  Moeller called it
    paint-by-numbers.
    Everything I said about Moeller now goes over Dickson and Moeller
    together.
    Tom

  I kind of find the bashing amusing as long as it is clever and not 
  really degrading to the point of mental abuse, whatever that is.
  
  I just smile when I read it, hoping these guys don't really hate each other
  and that it is all taken with a few dozen :-)s

CHad

    >< Note 1695.13 by NORGE::CHAD >

<  I just smile when I read it, hoping these guys don't really hate each other
<  and that it is all taken with a few dozen :-)s

<C<Had
Moeller told me he doesn't like me, but I like him.
    Tom

    RE: .6
    
    I'm with you, Brad -- I hate both of 'em.
    
    Richard. ���

    
    re: .10 I think...
    
    Tom, this is a nit, but you got ripped apart in V, not VI, which
    hasn't been released yet.... I think people will probably like your
    submissions to VI better anyway...
    
    /pjh

Indeed there is a lot of work involved in going from a printed score to
a polished performance, even if MIDI hardware ends up producing the final
sounds.  A straightforward transcription of what is written, without putting
in all the "technique" that ISN'T written, I would call "typing exercises".
For example, printed music usually does not show an accent on the first
beat of every measure, yet when you play it you put one in.

	I can see it now; people pay their admission, take their seats, the
	house lights dim, the curtain parts to reveal ... a guy sitting at a
	table covered with scraps of paper.  He is the composer.  He is
	writing music right before our eyes.  The talent!  The emotion!  The
	intricate orchestration!  It is all right there.  ---  But it isn't
	entertaining to watch.  Even when he plinks out parts on his CZ-101;
	Ashkenazy he ain't. 

	Act II.  The copyist.  Neatly writing out the music from the
	composer's scribblings, transposing the "Horn in F" part.  Lots of
	craftsmanship. But it isn't entertaining to watch. 

Not that these steps are not important.  Or even interesting.  They ARE. But if
you come in expecting to be entertained, you expect finished pieces, including
all that stuff the performer puts in at the last second.

Putting Bach into computers quickly becomes a LOT of work.  If you don't do all
the work (putting in the stuff that isn't written down) you get a very
mechanical result.  "Computers playing music."  Not very satisfying by itself. 
But it sure is a good way to learn about Bach's music.

    Just putting the composition is indeed no fun and will sound static,
    it is the interpretation that will do the finishing touch!
    For those who have a memmory problem, use a Yamaha CX5M. I even
    did put the whole Italian Concerto in to it, WITH INTERPRETATIONS.
    Remember that only BACH is sutable for the computer, THERE ARE NO
    NON WRITTEN NOTES IN THE COMPOSITIONS, Bach's music doesn't need
    it, the melody structure does the job!
    

    re .0
    
    	John:
    		I get a real kick out of sequencing (that's really what
    we're doing, right?) classical music.  Although Bach is one of my
    favorite composers, I have done more with Handel's music.  These
    include parts of a Concerto Grosso (Op6 N7), the Water Music, and
    chorales from oratorios.  I find that as the noter in .17 said,
    it really helps me to understand what is going on INSIDE the music.
    (The same is true for when I put in the snippets of Fusion, Rock,etc.
    which appear in KEYBOARD magazine from time to time).  As for the
    feel (interpretation), it is fun to see if I can even come close
    to what I hear when the piece is done be good performers.  For me,
    the point is not to put any starving artists out of a job.  I just
    get a kick out of coming up with something which sounds halfway
    close to the "original".
    
    	My dad's birthday is coming up the end of November, and as we
    are both organists, I am thinking of sequencing the first of the
    Eighteen Leipzig Chorales (BWV 651?).  I need to get started on
    it right away; it will probably take about a month of an hour here
    and an hour there.  Have you or others out there done any large
    scale organ works?  Also:
    
    	1)  I have a helluva time figuring out the Viola parts because
            of the Alto clef.  Are there some good tips for keeping
            this straight?
    	
    	2)  How do you work with Strings?  For pop and rock, its easy
            to use factory settings, but they sound terrible in a string
            quartet work.  How do you get them to sound more realistic?
            
    Good note topic,
    Bill Allen @MPO

    
    re: .-1 Bill
    
>    	1)  I have a helluva time figuring out the Viola parts because
>            of the Alto clef.  Are there some good tips for keeping
>            this straight?

      how about practice? No, seriously. Alto clef always
    messed me up until I had to take a course in college that required
    me to do a bunch of arranging with it. Straightened my act out,
    if only temporarily.
    
    
>    	2)  How do you work with Strings?  For pop and rock, its easy
>            to use factory settings, but they sound terrible in a string
>            quartet work.  How do you get them to sound more realistic?
    
    
    Use the solo string voices, those mongo ensembles sound lousy for
    solos. Use a sampler. If you don't have access to a sampler, try
    making the envelopes softer (slightly!!!!!) to give a softer attack,
    and put a delay vibrato in.  You *do* have a solo string patch lying
    around? Also, play with the Fc on your filter (if you have one)
    to make cellos and basses darker, otherwise they'll have too much
    harmonic content and sound buzzy.
    
    /pjh

    Pardon the digression, but what's so tricky about alto cleff?
    
    I'm not being sarcastic, as I know nothing about it, but isn't it
    just another line/space to note map?
    
    Someone please fill me in???
    
    Edd

|____/________________________________G
|   /                                 F
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| /                                   D
|/____________________________________middle c
|\                                    B
|_\___________________________________A
|  \                                  G
|___\_________________________________F

    Tom
    use it all the time
    ask for regis

    re.22
    	Thanks Tom
    
    		Bill Allen (Who will ask or regis, next time)

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