Conference napalm::commusic_v1

    There are lots of notes in this conference discussing keyboard
    controllers.  I'll throw in my 2� ...

    Depending on what kind of piano you've become used to (read: how
    arthritic your Rhodes is), the KX88 may be a bit stiff for you. I've
    played a KX88 and a Kurzweil MIDIboard (which isn't anywhere close to
    $10K).  I've diddled on a Korg, but wasn't impressed enough to remember
    much about it - my favorite feel (which is *very* subjective) is the
    Kurzweil. 

    As for a module, that depends on what you want to do with it.  Are you
    a programmer?  Do you want to program you own sounds?  Are you content
    with very good presets? How many simultaneous notes are you going to be
    playing at a time? 

    There are a couple choices I would look at based on your intro note.
    THe Kurzweil PX1000 (could be wrong here - help me out, Karl) is a 24
    voice polytimbral (meaning more than 1 patch at a time) module. Runs
    around $2k.  Roland has also come out with a sample *player* that is
    based on their S-50 technology - plays up to 31 simultaneous notes and
    is polytimbral.  Both these modules are rack mountable. 

    No matter how you look at it, you'll probably end up spending at least
    $2k - and maybe even $4k.

-b

    I'd say for the rack mounted sound unit, your best bet is probably
    a new or used MKS-20 (which has been superceded by the P-330).
    
    I've seen used MKS-20's for as little as $695.  I don't think you can
    possibly do better than that.
    
    	db

    This note reminded me hwow much I would have liked for Rhodes to
    have made Keyboard controllers.  I'm so used to the damned Rhodes
    action that I now actually *prefer* it over a piano.  You figure
    that since Rhodes had a whole target audience like me, they could
    have pulled it off and made some bucks doing it.  Oh Well.
    
    Gotta go to the Amnesty show....later.  :^)
    
    Ashley in LA LA Land

	I've got myself a KX88 and I absolutely *love* the feel of it.
	I compared it to a Roland RD1000 and the found Y-word keyboard to 
	have a much nicer feel.  As a *controller*, I can't say very much; 
	my only experience is with having my KX88 drive my TX802 along with
	an Atari ST (Master Tracks Pro) and an MT-32.


re. Brad and db

	Agreement.
	If I had the money, my next investment would either be a Kurzweil
	PX1000 or an S-550.
	However, a used MKS-20 at $695 is hard to pass up.

Dan

    I believe that if you look hard enough, you can probably find a kit
    to MIDIfy a Rhodes, although it may not have a bending wheel or a
    mod wheel.
    
    The S-550 would make a rather expensive dedicated piano SGU, however
    I think that Roland's new two-disk piano sample (free to all S-550
    owners) is the best piano sound I've heard short of the real thing.
    
    Now, I just have to get hold of a damned copy of it.
    
    	db

               
    
    I have had my KX88 for a couple of years now, and can add a positive
    vote for it. I use mine with an FB01 and a TX7. If you are used
    to a mechanical piano (I was taught classical piano when I was younger)
    then the KX88 is probably the nearest thing you'll get to a real
    piano feel for a sensible price.
    
    Yamaha have now discontinued the KX88 (at least in the UK) and they
    are starting to become collectors' items.
    
    They also have all the usual Midi controllers, but the aftertouch
    is not on individual notes (I heard that some keyboards do individual
    note aftertouch).                 
    
    I was also very tempted by the MKS20 when it came out, and now that
    they are available secondhand or new for $695, then I may see if
    I can get hold of one. �1200 in the UK when they came out was just
    too much!
    
    	Richard
    
    

    
    You can get a MKS20 from Soundhouse in London for 600(approx) UK Notes.
    
    However I would also recommend that you look at the new little Yam
    expander which has 6 inbuilt samples 2 pianos , VOices Strings Brass
    and something else. They cost 195 but are only 8 note poly but have
    a  special connector for adding 2 together which joins them
    electrically from a supply and signal (stereo) point of view and
    also digitally. 2 would fill up one rack space and would only cost
    390 pounds. Sorry I Can't remember the name or number.
    
    					Paul.

    I've had a Kurzweil midiboard for a few months, and *really* like
    the feel of it.  It costs a bit more than the KX-88, though.  Its
    action is a bit "clickier".  It does have individual-note aftertouch.
    
    The real drawback is that it weighs a ton.  I probably wouldn't
    have bought it if I'd realized how much it weighed.  It's heavy
    enough that I shouldn't (because of a slight back problem) carry
    it by myself.
    
    Dean Wallraff
    

    Yamaha KX88 Controller...should I...
    
    ...open it up?
    
    Here's the deal.
    
    My KX88 just arrived at my house (finally) the other night.  Naturally,
    I had to hook it up to "test" it out (for a number of hours ;-).
    
    Everything is fine except for the panel on the back where you plug the
    power cord in.  When you push the power cord into the socket in the
    rear, the panel that the socket sits in moves.  I don't think that's
    normal.  A friend had been letting me borrow his KX88 until mine came
    in, and the socket/panel were very tight...no give at all.
    
    So I figure it's *got* to be something simple...a loose screw or
    something.  The question is...rather, the questions are...
    
    	1.  Is it a relatively safe assumption that this is no big deal
    	2.  Assuming it's something simple, what's the best way to get
    	    at this part of the unit?
    
    It seems the entire top is on a hinge, but after removing the top 4
    screws, I couldn't get the top opened.
    
    Any tips/thoughts/suggestions are muchly appreciated.
    
    Thanks,
    
    Steve
    

    I'd open it up in a heartbeat, mostly cuz I just love seeing the
    'guts'. All my gear has been subjected to amateur surgery...
    
    ...plus, are you comfortable with knowing your AC connections are
    "non-spec" at best??? One short and "***BBBBZZZZZZTT!!", it's the
    end of your controller...
    
    Just *how* one would open it up is beyond me...
    
    Edd

    Gosh,
    
    Thanks for that vote of...whatever that was ;-)
    
    Having the gift of technical no-how...
    
    How would I know if my AC connections were "non-spec"?
    
    Steve

    > How would I know if my AC connections were "non-spec"?
    
    They'd wiggle...
    
    Edd

    Thank MIDI I've never had to open mine up.  But when you do get yours
    open, let me know how hard it is to pry the lead weights off the inside
    of the case ;-)
    
    karl

    Is it still on warranty? I'd be careful opening up a unit, especially
    if you feel you aren't experienced. You need to be careful about static
    discharge. Also, you may find that the design of the unit has been
    changed, and the old "stiff" design was improved by making it looser
    (more tolerant of having its power cord yanked?). So after risking
    opening it, you might decide there's really nothing wrong. On the other
    hand, maybe there's a loose nut which after a while will fall off and
    short everything out!
    
    well, I guess this hasn't helped much...
    
    
    

    I dunno how your synth is built.  But, should you begin pulling it
    apart, take care.  The standard procedure is to first make sure you're
    not hooked up to power.  Then, remove all of the screws that look like 
    they could be holding it together.  Often such screws will be located under 
    panels and doors.  Sometimes they are under decals, a way to help in the 
    detection of warranty voiding.  
    
    Still tight and won't come loose?  Carefully pry up the sides with a
    flat blade screwdriver or knife and look for holding tabs.  These snap
    tight when the case is closed.  You usually have to push them in,
    sometimes all at the same to get it loose.  Sometimes these tabs are
    located not along the outside rims but toward the middle and are
    accessible with a flat-blade screwdriver, usually in a little
    rectangular hole.
    
    Now that it's loose, put back in all the screws that weren't used to
    hold it together (as a precaution).  Don't touch anything until you
    know what you are doing.  If there's a cardboard, foil or rubber piece
    that comes loose, be sure it gets put back.  It could be insulation,
    grounding or shielding.  If you see screws with paint, glue or epoxy on
    them, don't touch.  Mess with them and you'll leave a warranty-voiding
    trail.  All bets are off if you take a soldering iron to it.  Be
    careful about "adjusting" any springs.  You probably won't get it
    right.  Unless you know what you are doing, don't mess with any
    internal adjustments.  If you replace any parts, be sure you are
    substituting in the correct parts.
    
    To put it back together, reverse the procedure.  Remember, a
    knolwedgeable tech can spot when it's not been put together correctly.
    
    Steve

    
    
    
       If all else fails, a jackhammer works wonders......
    
    
    
    
    
    RichC
    

    ...or else we could blast! nyuk nyuk nyuk
    
    

    �   Now that it's loose, put back in all the screws that weren't 
    �   used to hold it together...
    
    Yeah.  And now that you know what that "thump" sound was, use these
    screws to re-mount the transformer that just fell off the side of the
    unit.
    
    								Marc  

    Well,
    
    Using the jack-hammer method, I succesfully ripped open the KX88.  Just
    for kicks, I loosened every screw with thread-locker on it and I'm now
    going to send it back to the factory and tell them it was defective.
    
    Actually....
    
    I found out the 2 screws I needed to get at in addition to the 4 on top
    were underneath.  I tightened the bracket that holds the power cord and
    I'm all set.
    
    There was this grey-ribbon like thing that was getting in the way so I
    cut it in half.  I hope I didn't mess anything up.
    
    Thanks for all your comments.  You're truly a sick bunch of individuals
    and perhaps that's what makes COMMUSIC such a blast! ;-)
    
    Intrepidly yours (huh?)
    
    Steve

    If that grey-ribbon thing had a bunch of wires in it, don't worry.
    You can still play your KX88 from another keyboard ...
    
    Steve

    
    I just found out something interesting... I was in Daddy's Junky Music
    inquiring into used controllers, such as the KX76.  The salesman
    mentioned that all that generation of yamaha keyboard gear (DX7,
    KX76, KX88, etc) would only transmit a max key velocity of 111 and
    not 127?
    
    Although this doesn't seem like a very big gap to me, he claims that
    several people have found the dynamics too limiting and have since
    bought an external MIDI processing unit, such as a MX-8 to scale up the
    velocities.
    
    Is this true and is it really all that +noticeable+?  Any other gear
    have a quirk in it such as this?  (The saleman says that since Y-word
    was sort of top of the heap at that time they could get away with but
    has since then smartened up.  Why would they do it that way to begin
    with?)
    
    -TR
    

    This is a well-known bug-a-boo for the DX-7, but it's the first I've
    heard of it with respect to the controllers...
    
    From what I've heard, it's noticeable.
    
    Edd

    I think if Brad pipes in here that he'll tell you his KX76 transmits
    the full velocity range.  I think they got hip to the flaw by the time
    they started making dedicated controllers.
    
    	Dan
    

    Actually, the DX7 was the *only* Y-word product that had this problem.
    The KX series controller do indeed transmit the full velocity range.
    
    The velocity curve on KX controllers is not (to my knowledge)
    adjustable, and it does take a good bit of effort to get the higher
    numbers out of it.  I thought I was having trouble with my KX76 several
    months ago because I wasn't able to get velocities over 117 out of it.
    Turns out that it was because I was mounted on a USS 3-tier stand, and
    it had enough give to it that I couldn't hit the thing hard enough to
    get the higher velocities. I moved the keyboard from the stand to the
    edge of a stage, and had no trouble at all getting consistent 120+
    velocities, all the way up to 127.  (Incidentally, I used an Atari ST
    MIDI monitor to monitor controller values.)
    
    I also used my KX to play a friend's DX7 - the DX disted very badly at
    velocities over 117.  Interestingly enough, the TX7 modules I had at
    the time did no such thing.
    
+b

    
    That's it!  I got a used original DX-7 a while ago and knew something
    seemed funny on it.  I've tried a KX76 and know several people who
    enjoy them and that problem never came up.  I'm glad, I've been looking 
    for a used KX??.  (See, if it wasn't for you guys I would have gone by
    what that guy said...) I wonder how much misleading information one gets
    from music stores- there's been several cases of conflicting stories.
    
    Thanks.
    
    -Tom
    

    I have a KX88.. I echo what Brad said - unless it's on a solid surface
    it's impossible to get the big numbers.  But once it was I can get 125
    to 127 consistently.  As a pianist I find the action
    just fine, but someone with synth chops might be happier with something
    else.
    
    karl

  > <<< Note 1682.24 by DYPSS1::SCHAFER "I used to wear a big man's hat..." >>>
  >                    -< no KX problems that I know of >-
  >
  >  Actually, the DX7 was the *only* Y-word product that had this problem.
  >  The KX series controller do indeed transmit the full velocity range.
    
    	The DX11, I've heard, came out with this same limited velocity.
    
    	Dan
    

    DX11?  Not having played one, I can't comment - but it is kind of
    unbelievable...
    
+b

The DX11 does produce full scale velocity.

The problem with the DX7 is only evident when using it as a controller
or when it is being controlled by external devices.

That is, MIDI 109 (I think that's the max it transmits, but I can't
remember for sure) corresponds to full scale internal velocity.

When you control the DX7 from an external controller, velocities over
109 overdrive the algorithms (software distortion!).

The TX7 is the same synth as the DX7, but they rescaled MIDI velocity
so things would work right.

E! for the DX7 provides zillions of tweaks to the DX7 velocity response
(different curves for internal and external velocity generation,
reception, etc).   It's a good thing to have if you want to use the DX7
as a controller.

Steph

    After some sort of weird power glitch, my KX88 lost its mind.  It
    forgot my setup completely, which isn't very complex.
    
    8-bank operation.  FC1 (pedal 1) assigned to "17", Y-ese for MIDI CC7,
    volume, only for channel 1.  Bank A=MIDI ch 1, Bank B=MIDI ch 2.
    Everything else, factory settings.
    
    That's it.  While re-programming it, I decided to save my work into
    Code Memory 1.  I found that the Code Memory won't remember things like 
    split point.  It also forgot that I'd only assigned FC1/MIDI vol to 
    MIDI ch 1/bank A.  Remembered the 8bank setting.
    
    Comments ?  -karl

    	My KX88 seems to be loosing its mind too...  I wonder if there is
    one of those dreaded 5 yr batteries that all my other manuals warn
    about, but I never worry about since I never seem to own anything that
    long.  I don't see any mention of a battery in the KX88 manual.  Does
    anyone know if there is one?
    
    	Also on the KX88 topic, does anyone have a full description of the
    SYSEX bulk dump format??  It supports the function, but my manual
    doesn't really describe the data format.  It might be kinda nice to be
    able to automaticaly blast a new split point down the wire when a
    sequence is started up.
    
    Brian
    

	Yamaha sent me all the poop and nothing but the poop on the SPX90
	sysex, but first they had to send me something useless and I had to
	point it out, then they were very helpful.  The service department
	in California was my starting place.  The number's at home I thik.
Tom

re .30 & .31

	I think there is a battery.....   I think mine is probably
about due to pop off.....I think there is a battery.....   I think
mine is probably about due to pop off.....I think there is a
battery.....   I think mine is probably about due to pop off.....I
think there is a battery.....   I think mine is probably about due to
pop off.....I think there is a battery.....   I think mine is probably
about due to pop off.....I think there is a battery.....   I think
mine is probably about due to pop off..... I think there is a
battery.....   I think mine is probably about due to pop off.....I
think there is a battery.....   I think mine is probably about due to
pop off..... 

	errr, ain't you guyze got manuals ?

	Maybe there isn't a battery, maybe mine is fine - if I have 
one, I'll check the manual - I think there is a manual {somebody stop 
me}

	R

    re .33 - I don't have a great deal of experience with Yamaha manuals,
    but there's probably little more than a sentence about the battery,
    which probably consists mostly of "...take your unit to a qualified
    service technician".
    
    len (who's already been through an exciting adventure with an obscure
    A-sized pigtail leaded lithium battery soldered to the underside of a
    daughter board).
    

  <<< Note 1682.34 by DRUMS::FEHSKENS "len, EMA, LKG2-2/W10, DTN 226-7556" >>>
    
    >"...take your unit to a qualified service technician".
    
    You got it !  Also, if the battery *IS* running low, the readout will
    say 
    
    "lo ba"
    
    bbaahh..