Conference napalm::commusic_v1

    Ha! You'll certainly split the noters with this one. There are
    the 'If it's Roland, buy it' brigade, and the 'I've got an HR and
    it's temperamental but brilliant' brigade! What's more, many noters
    belong to both brigades! Ha ha!
    
    But seriously, I heard both, I own neither, and I preferred the
    HR16's sounds. Interface is a matter of taste.
    
    Richard.

    I'll be honest, I just bought an HR-16 and I think the 626 sounds
    better (i.e., sounds more like what I expect my real drums to sound
    like).  But the HR-16's a lot more flexible.   The Roland is probably
    a lot more reliable in the long run (I have three Roland drum machines
    and they have never failed in any way over the many years I have
    had them).  My HR-16 hasn't failed yet, but I've only had it 4 days.
    It's a tossup.  For a lot of the sounds the HR-16 and the 626 are
    indistinguishable.  I think the Roland snare and crash are
    significantly better.  I don't know if the 626 fixes the 707/727
    problem of setting velocity based on the last message received for
    *any* voice (instead of *per* voice).  I haven't yet confirmed that
    the HR-16 does the right thing in this regard either, but I'd be
    awefully surprised (and pi**ed) if it doesn't.  The 626 has separate
    outs and is for the most part easier to program.
    
    All the above are *opinions*, not facts.
    
    The bottom line is *you're* gonna have to make the choice; listen
    carefully to both, try programming both.  Pick the one *you* prefer.
    
    The "best" drum machine is probably an S-550 with extended RAM and
    packed full of carefully made samples.  Or the nonexistent lenDrum.
    
    len.
    

    I used to own a 626 and traded it for an HR.  Depends on how you
    use the thing.  
    
    I explained a bunch of 'why i traded' in either the 626 or the HR-16
    note.  Just thumb through those 375 replies  :^)
    
    
    Ashley

    Just for kicks (hee, hee) also take a look at the TR-505 (ouch!
    don't pull my hair!  I still like mine ...) and take a look at the
    Kawai R-50 and the Yamaha RX-series.  It all depends on your needs and 
    taste ...  If I were to do get a new machine, I'd probably go with
    the 626.  Mostly, I'd be afraid of QC and would also like to be
    able to expand the sounds.
    
    Steve

    If you're going to buy "off the floor", then I recommend the HR.

    I listened to lots of boxes before I took the plunge.  I used to have a
    Roland 707 which I liked a lot from a u/i point of view, but once used
    to the HR's interface (a bit different, not necessarily better or
    worse, from Roland's ), progamming becomes a matter of taste.  I now
    actually prefer the HR interface to the TR. 

    For opinion's sake, I disagree with Len about the 626 drums sounding
    better than the HR.  They are *different*, but not what I would call
    *better*.  Again, a judgement call.  Listen to both without effects in
    a semi-quiet place ... then listen to them with effects (same effect
    box/setting per unit). 

    Biggest thing to look for is quality.  Like Len/Steve said, the Roland
    gear is really durable.  Alesis has had some QC problems of late, and
    some of the units are either put together very poorly or DOA.  My
    experience has been that if the unit is NOT DOA and works for more than
    a week after you get it, chances are that it will not have any
    problems.  I got my HR via mailorder, and it had a few screws loose
    (literally - the mother board almost fell out); but I tightened
    everything up and have had no trouble since then. 

    Whether you get the HR or the TR626, make sure that you *don't* get a
    demo unit.  Make them take it out of the box and let you play it for at
    least � hour before plunking down your cash.  And get the store to
    guarantee a trade for a good one in case the unit you buy dies. 

    Good luck.

-b

    re .5 - just to be sure people understand what I mean by "better"
    (see the parenthetic remark in my reply); by better, I mean they
    sound more like what I want my real drums to sound like.  After
    all, I *am* a drummer, and I have a pretty nice Ludwig acoustic
    kit to serve as a reference.  The Roland crashes sound *a lot* more
    like my Zildjian crashes, except for their duration.  I would not
    buy a crash cymbal that sounded like the (unprocessed via EQ etc.)
    crash sample in the HR-16.  And the Roland snares sound *a lot*
    more like my snare when it is set up properly, than any of the snare
    samples in the HR-16.  The HR-16 snare samples sound like my snare
    when the heads are mistuned, or the snares are too loose, etc..
    
    len.
     

    Yup - I understood.  No flames, no prods.  Just opinions.  And yours
    are probably better than mine, even though I *used* to be a drummer (I
    did this when I was ... uhmm, [aw, shaddup!] 8-) 

-b

 I hate to "throw in a monkey wrench", but...

There is talk in the wind that Roland plans to come out with the "ultimate
drum machine" in the near future, so if you can just hold out a little longer...

We've heard this before, but I tend to expect more from Roland, so we'll see...

The trends are becoming clearer:

1. All-in-one MIDI workstations, sync-to-tape, disk drives, card slots
2. samplers with lots of features and bigger memories (delayed by RAM shortage)
3. Multi-timbral, multi-output rackmount sound modules with loads of built-in
   sounds and programmed by an external computer
4. 16 voice poly is becoming the minimum, although cheaper units still have 8
   and the D50 seems to be holding its price point
5. Low priced multi-f/x DSPs, everything in stereo
6. Korg and Casio are making a bid for a bigger market share with higher end
   products e.g. their VZ, FZ, M1, etc.
7. Yamaha desparately needs to develop an entirely new product line.
   They've DXed and TXed us to death.

dave

I agree with Len, the best drum machine I've had is the S550 samples, tweeked
in the TVF. I sampled my Korg DDD-5 and was able to make the samples sound
much cleaner with a better resonance than the original sounds. I would like
to sample some real crash cymbals though. This seems to be a common weak spot
in all of the drum machines, mostly due to the length (at least 2 seconds).

    I've heard the "new Roland drum machine" rumors too, and my guess
    is it's at least 6 months away.  It will be shown at a NAMM three
    or four months before it's available in stores, and then it will
    probably go for $1K - $2K.  I.e., until there're more than "rumors",
    like pictures and a blurb in RUG, it's at least three months away.
    
    Now, Roland, go ahead and announce it tomorrow.
    
    len.
    

    I'll second the suggestion that you should look at the Kawai R-50.
    The R-50 owners in this file aren't running to buy an HR-16, even
    after listening.  Not that the HR-16 is bad, but the R-50's design
    involves different trade-offs (imo:  better interface and reliability
    as opposed to sound quality (whatever that is).
    
    Steph

    Jim:
    	Thats a big "10-4" on the last note.  I looked at the Roland
    626, Alesis HR-16 and the Kawai R-50 very closely.  After studying
    what they were supposed to do, I spent a lot of time listening and
    re-listening to the patterns that come with them and most important-
    ly the sounds.  The comments about the HR-16 being the "best sounding"
    are probably true; to my ear it does sound marginally better.  But
    I was interested in a machine that would be easy to learn, and pretty
    intuitive (because I tend to drift in and out of hobbies and didn't
    want to have to re-read the manual each time).  On that basis, I
    found the Kawai clearly the best for my purposes (ie an amatuer
    who wants the best I can afford...just in case!).  However, any
    of these would be a good choice.
    
    BTW	Kawai also is a great company to deal with, perhaps because
    they know that other names like Yamaha and Roland have more market
    share.  They would like to get some of our business and tend to
    treat owners well.  In the final analysis you really need to spend
    as much time as you can banging on the machines just getting the
    feel and sound. It will pay off, regardless of which machine you
    choose.  
    
    Clusters,
    Bill Allen @MPO
       

    On the "or what..." side of things ..

    At the recent British Music Fair, Akai were demoing a drum voice
    module designed for use with either MIDI pads or a sequencer. This
    (rack-mount) box holds a number (eight ??) of drum samples, which 
    can be loaded from ROM cards. 

    Note that this is *not* a drum machine, nor is it a sampler. The idea
    is to give cheap access to quality drum samples (same concept as the
    Oberheim sample player). Now I wonder if you can send it MIDI sample
    dumps from any sampler ??


    Derek (who_would_have_started_a_new_note_but_doesn't_have_enough_
           data_about_this_new_toy_yet)

    re .12
    
    	Derek:
    	
    This sounds very interesting.  Do you have any other info?  Did
    you hear the thing? 
    
    Does anybody stateside know anything about this (eg availability,
    pricing, etc.)?
    
    Clusters,
    Bill Allen @MPO
    

    re .13

    Bill,

    I'm afraid I have no more info at the moment. I'll have a rummage
    through my Music Fair brochure heap and see if I can find anything
    over the weekend. By the way, I did hear it and it sounded impressive
    - but then again *everything* sounds impressive at proper demos :-)

    One further tidbit...

    Roland were also demoing a sample player at the BMF. It's called the
    T-110 (I think), and that's about all I know about it !!

    Further details to follow (if I can find any !!).

    Cheers,

    Derek.

       

    Well, I'm now the owner of a TR-626.
    But, as I eagerly opened the box I was startled to see a bunch of
    six AA batteries, and no AC adapter.
    A little peaved, I called Union Music in Worcester to see how much
    the AC adapter would run me.  Thinking it would be 5 or 6 bucks,
    not thinking it would be any more than $20, I was quite disheartened
    to learn that this simple adapter costs $43!!!
    
    It works fine on batteries, but I don't how long it will run.
    So... if someone could fill me in on the battery situation, I would
    greatly appreciate it; if this thing will run for two months, I
    might not even worry about getting the adapter, but on the other
    hand I really don't want to keep running out for batteries if they
    only last a week or so.

    You might check out your neighborhood Rat Shack for an adaptor.
    If you can, hear it first to make sure it doesn't generate lotsa
    hum.  Otherwise, go for a higher-end wall-bug.  Seems to me I got
    an AC adaptor with my 505 and wound up using it on the CZ-101 and
    using the Rat Shack adaptor for the 505.  The wall bug that came
    with the 505 was really noisey.  This is from memory ...
    
    Steve

    Oooops, soory.  I went back to check on this (see note 382.81) and
    I didn't get a power supply with the 505.  Instead, I got a bug
    from Rat Shack.  At first, it generatd unacceptable hum, so I swapped
    it with the bug I was using for the CZ.  There was no hum on either
    unit as a result.  My guess is that the CZ can handle a noisier
    power supply.  I would not trust the fact that you pay more for
    the 'official' power supply as meaning that it will be better. Also,
    if you really have concerns, use the power supply most of the time
    and batteries when you are recording or performing.  It's not a
    battery hog.  But, remember to have the switch off if you are using
    internal patterns as they can be wiped if the unit is on and the
    plug is stuck in or out.  Also, the advice about trying out the
    power supply is still valid.
    
    Steve

    I used the Rat Shack adaptor, but kept the thing full of batteries.
    
    Battery life isn't great, but isn't as bad as you might think. 
    And you're gonna love the headphone jack.  This way you can put
    on the headphones, run off of the batteries, and program patterns
    in traffic.
    
    Yes, the freeway was rough today.
    
    
    Ashley in Smogland