Conference napalm::commusic_v1

RE Brian Rost...

	After reading your review, I was wondering if you could elaborate on
some terms that I didn't understand...

> ... Dan "Mr. Consignment" Eaton ...

	I don't understand...

> ... the arrangement is really very spartan ...

	The meaning here eludes me...

	Dan Eaton

RE < Note 1556.1 by AKOV68::EATOND "Moving to NRO!" >

	Wait a minute, I figured the first one out... having to do with my
buying/selling activities?

	Now what does spartan mean?

	Dan 

    
    "Mr. Consignment" was intended to be a humorous reference to your
    equipment turnover record.
    
    Here's the smiley faces, see?   8^)  8^)  8^)  8^)
    
    I'll go crawl back under my rock, now....
    
    The "spartan" arrangement referred to the fact that your piece
    basically was just piano, bass and drums, with very little else going
    on.  I *like* to hear very simple arrangements that work as opposed to
    the common "It sounds weak, let's turn on the Fairlight" approach to
    modern pop. 
    
       

    Hmm, I wonder what an athenian arrangement would sound like...
    
    len.
    

    Even better, how about a
    Babylonian arrangement?
    Tom

    Go berserk -- Dionysian!
    
    Richard.
    

    How about Carthaginian or Phoenician arrangements?
    Tom

	How about Trojan?
	Dan

    Stoic?

    
    Just be SURE to use those initial caps!

    Athens i'sparta Greece, right?
    
    len (who's sorry he started this).
     

    Zorbanian
    

    Was PIUS X the patron saint of medium speed monochromatic photography?
    
    Edd

    And TRIUS X was the patron saint of high speed monochromatic
    photography.
    
    You ever shoot any KOTO CHROME?  It's from Japan, and it's great
    for color still shots of multistringed musical instruments...
    
    len.
    

    
    
    I use ta know this old rabbi that shot that koto chrome stuff.
    His name was Si Berkrome.
    
    Arrrg....
    
    ralph
    
    

    Don't forget to use resin-coated papers when printing pictures of
    violin bows.  And poly-contrast rapid for pictures of people playing
    Petroushka .  Or is that poly-tonal rapid?
    

    umm, ... any comments on Commusic V?

    But this is so much more fun...
    
    (I'm listening and listening and listening and a review is in the
    works.  It's competing with my COMMUSIC VI submissions, though...)
    
    len.
    

    a simple note to those who have made it this far.  You are as much
    of an idiot as myself.  I can't believe I read them all!
    
    But there was a little entertainment involved.

    It has come to my attention that some regular noters, and some read-only
    types, are actually in possession of a copy of Commusic V..  and are 
    hesitant to post a review because their response to each and every 
    submission is not uniformly positive.
    
    If the number of reviews so far were overwhelming, there would be 
    little reason to comment.  However, since there's been a lot of
    apparent listening and very little writing, I have an observation to 
    make.
    
    The Easynet has a wide geographic dispersal.  That means that Brad
    Schafer in Dayton, Ohio, for example, could write an absolutely
    SCATHING review of someone's material, and, unless the injured 
    contributor were fortunate enough to travel to Ohio on Digital
    business, it is entirely likely that Brad's nose would survive
    unscathed.  For those of you working and noting in the relative
    density of the New England states, your nose's Possible Damage Index 
    (PDI) is accordingly increased.  For me, down in incredibly dusty, remote 
    Tucson, Arizona, hell, I can say virtually anything and get away with 
    it.. kind of like Tom Janzen, only in the desert.
    
    So, with this in mind, I say, write the reviews.. if something leaves
    you cold, like, say, sine-wave Bach or Stravinsky 'recreations',
    just say so.  Or say, "This next piece was so distorted on my copy that
    I can't possibly review it."  Another 'review-avoidance' ploy is to
    pretend that the piece, usually at the end of a side, was missing
    off the tape... sure... One reviewer has already used this method, so 
    you can make up your own.  I do.
    
    In fact, due to my own sloth, I still don't have  a copy.. I was,
    however, considering just making up reviews, based on the liner notes,
    previous exposure to the composers' material, and previously posted
    reviews.  I might do it, except that I have a business trip to
    Massachussets scheduled for August.  Also, I'm a bleeder.
    
karl, who's obviously been into HYDRA::DAVE_BARRY again    

    Nag nag nag.
    
    Nag nag nag.
    
    Nag nag nag.
    
    (There, now it's constructivistly symmetric and I can get on to my
    next theme.)
    
    Well, Karl, some of us haven't written our reviews yet not because
    we're afraid of calling it like we see it, but because we're just
    plain lazy.  This was the least interesting COMMUSIC tape for me
    of all, so you can expect some well chosen words from me.  But
    I'm still choosing them.  So many different ways to say "I don't
    like this".
                                         
    You just wanna know what we think of *your* stuff!  Well, you shoulda
    added the squeaks.  And your minefield *was* pretty.  See, my sense
    of esthetics has been reduced to mush by listening to too much "modern"
    music.  Anything goes, except the stuff I don't like.
    
    len.
    

RE: .20

    Ok.  The tape stunk.  All the contributors play like I did when I was
    7.  The tape production stunk.  Er, "production values" as a whole were
    completely out of touch.  And this Moeller (Miller?  Moaler?  Mauler?)
    fellow - well, he couldn't play his way out of a wet paper bag.  And I
    haven't even heard the tape yet.  Just wait till I do. 

    Of course, I didn't submit anything, because I quit caring about music
    last week.

%*( who just got punched by a big dude on a Harley from Tuscon
 ^
 +---  see?

    My review:
    
    I enjoyed all the pieces (including the "stinking" rock tunes) except
    the ones that really sucked.  I'm sure you all know which ones I'm
    talking about.  ;-)
    
    	db

    One of the things I've always enjoyed is the abuse that one can
    get when submmitting....but screw it fellows I'm gonna put a data
    dump on CM VI, an experimental one of course... 
    
    dbII and his stinking rock tunes... 
    
    :-)

    Just for kicks, I've been thinking about doing a pseudo sample tape.
    You know, have the same sample played at different pitches, only
    really do it *badly*.  Like the following (all at intervals, of
    course - you guys have already suggested much of this):
    
    	o sample *me* singing badly 
    	o toilet flush
    	o CZ-101 presets
    	o 60 Hz
	o my boy saying 'hello'
    	o TV noise
    	o VL-tone presets
    	o tape hiss

    Steve_who'd_better_get_back_to_work    

>    < Note 1556.22 by DYO780::SCHAFER "Brad ... DTN 433-2408" >
>    %*( who just got punched by a big dude on a Harley from Tuscon

    Actually, it was a 1969/79 Norton 750 Commando 'S'.. that got sold,
    and, with the money from my former MKS20 piahno, turned magically
    into a Kurzweil.  The Kurzweil always starts, and I don't have to
    adjust its points every week.  Also it doesn't drip oil on my studio
    floor.
    
    BTW Brad, you realize I was just using you as an example of another
    'remote' noter.. I would never imply that you'd egregiously give
    bad reviews to others' music.  That can be dangerous to the structural
    integrity of one's proboscis and/or philtrum.
    
    karl
        

    No implication taken, sir.  And sorry about the Norton - hard to tell
    when eyes are watering from flattened schnoz. 

-b who_nose_is_quite_large_apart_from_being_punched

    Boy, all these animalistic colloquialisms are causing cephalic
    convulsions in this commusicers cerebral cortex!
    
    Steve 

    That's OK, we're all adults...
                    
    Edd
    

    
    
    Thanks to the unbounded generosity of Dave Blick we now have the
    European copy of Comm V. Any europeans who would like a copy please
    mail me or phone (851 2007). So that we can arrange a delivery
    methodology.                         
            
    					Paul.                             
    					

	I feel obliged to post my reactions to Len's review by stated the
very thing I had to say upon my first 'religious' submission to a commusic
tape (number 3, I believe).  That is:  'Please feel free to review the piece at
whatever level you feel comfortable with'.  I'm disappointed, Len, that you
couldn't at least comment on the music, in the very least the drum sequencing.

	Also, out of obligation to my beliefs, I need to state that militant
Christianity is the furthest thing from my intentions.  The song puts things
in terms of God setting someone on their feet when all seemed darkest.  There is
no allusion to the vanquishing of a person or persons as the foe.  The lyrics
speak repeatedly of a divine being acting as 'Savior from the grave' (i.e. 
saving the writer from death').  I realize you claim the words are hard to hear.
I would like to clear up the misconceptions.

	True Christianity knows no human enemies.

	I am puzzled, Len, that the common thread in your initial reactions to 
my commusic submissions is that you feel evangelized.

	Dan

    As I said, Dan, it probably says more about me than about you or
    your music.  My problem, which I'm happy to admit to.  I guess it
    has something to do with the general discomfort I have with Christian
    pop music.  I realize it's quite commonplace nowadays, but all the
    religious music I know (and much of it that I love) is "solemn",
    and there's a sense of the oxymoron to "religious rock" for me.
    Again, that's my hangup, and I recognize its irrationality.  Also,
    the "evangelized" feeling is also my problem, as I recognize that
    a lot of this stuff gets written solely as an expression of joy,
    not to proselytize.
    
    Having been brought up as devout Lutheran, I understand that true
    Christianity knows no human enemies, and regardless of my current
    beliefs, I retain a large chunk of Christian "philosophy" in my
    perspective.  My remarks were based on superficial impressions.
    
    You know how reformed smokers often complain the loudest about other
    smokers?  It's a misleading analogy in some respects (e.g., I certainly
    don't intend to imply that Christianity is like smoking), but there's
    some applicability.
    
    Anyway, the consistent reaction I have to this sort of thing is
    "I don't want to hear this".  Sorry, I have the same reaction to
    a lot of other musical genres.  It says nothing about their merit.
    As the old saw goes, "there's no accounting for taste".  I wish
    I could respond more positively, but it's not in me.           
    
    len.
    

RE: 1524.10
DRUMS::FEHSKENS                                      47 lines   3-AUG-1988 12:13
                      -< Errata, Addenda and Otherstuffa >-

>    I want to single out the nice drum machine programming in Steve
>    Sherman's piece, and in the third Dreher tune.

    Thanks!  This has extra impact, coming from you, len!  I've read your
    notes on drum programming as well as paid heed to comments posted
    here on programming drum machines and have attempted to incorporate 
    many of the concepts in my stuff.  (Sure is a lot of work, tho'...)
    ;-)

    
    Steve

    re 1524.8. len's review..
    
    >.. the "New Karl": gee, I feel the same as always, but thanks for
    noticing.. perhaps it's my uh, range you're noticing.. wait until
    you get your tape with 'Weekend Raga' on it, complete with Tabla
    solo.
    
    >... "Easter Morning's" 'explicit sequencing' :  huh?  I loaded
    the Nylon String guitar sample and started Performer on the Mac,
    with NO audible click.. and just played.  There were two glitches
    I later corrected in the piece, but other than that it's just like
    I played it.
    
    >... "writing a concerto" :  funny, I've been working on ideas for
    an extended piece for almost 2 years now.  It'll be very different
    sections, both in key and orchestration, linked with a recurring
    theme (the main theme from 'Toccata').  Yeah, you can hardly wait.
    
    karl
    a repeated

    Dan,
    
    I confess to having the same reaction as Len.  I mention this ONLY
    to support Len's statement that the reaction is more a statement of
    the review than of the music.
    
    I'm jewish (I'll bet you knew that).  I turn on my TV Sunday morning
    and I find myself bombarded with people singing these kinds of songs.
    Their intentions are quite different from yours (as evidenced by the
    numbers that seem to never leave the bottom of my screen), and yet
    I (unfairly) associate your submissions with that proselyzing
    (when I'm kind, "huckstering" when I'm not).
    
    I felt I had to say something here because it is my genuine hope 
    that you CONTINUE submitting the music that you feel inspired to
    write, despite how some of us may react to it.  I'm sure Len feels
    the same way.
    
    You are very talented.  The instrumental on Commusic III is one of my
    favorites.  Very impressionistic.  You may remember that before having
    seen the liner notes, I described for you an image that it conjured
    up in me, and you had said that was exactly what you had intended.
    That's very rare.
    
    	db

    re .35 - I recall (but my memory is notoriously defective) reading
    in your notes that one of the pieces was explicitly sequenced.  I
    assumed it was Easter Morning.  Hey, I'm a results oriented guy,
    I don't much care how you get someplace if it's a nice place (this
    does *not* mean the ends justify the means), so more power to you.
                                     
    Now, I plan to hold my breath until the concerto is finished, and
    you have to promise that you'll stop improvising "that way" too.
                                                                     
    len.
    

RE < Note 1556.36 by DREGS::BLICKSTEIN "Yo!" >

	You know, thinking about it, I'm kind of surprized that you would have
an adverse reaction to the lyrics of 'He is a Rock' seeing that the scriptures
I used were those that are common to our two faiths (i.e., the writings of the
prophet Samuel).  I made no mention, whatsoever, of Jesus in the piece.  It was 
a song attributed to King David (to which I set to music).

	Sorry if I am carrying this digression on too long, but I would truly 
like to see people be open-minded enough to at least evaluate my 
performance/sequencing/recording techniques, even if they have to swallow hard
when certain phrases pass by their ears.  I recall having to do just that on
one of Dave Dreher's pieces.

	Dan

>	Sorry if I am carrying this digression on too long, but I would truly 
>like to see people be open-minded enough to at least evaluate my 
>performance/sequencing/recording techniques, even if they have to swallow hard
>when certain phrases pass by their ears.  I recall having to do just that on
>one of Dave Dreher's pieces.

    Hey, *I* was! :-)   An' I didn't say anything about the lyrics...  I
    thought you did a good job on it and that it's good having it on
    CM IV, and I think that's how most of us feel.  Also, I think that len 
    and db are really trying to avoid hurting any feelings.
    
    Steve
    

    re .39 - it's not a matter of trying to avoid hurting any feelings.
    I calls'em as I sees'em (cf. Event Horizon).  I think Dan's tune
    is competently written, I'm just not interested in the subject matter.
    If he really values my opinion on its musical merits, then I'll
    relisten to it and provide an opinion (although I think it's legitimate
    for me to reserve the right to say "I have no opinion"; I don't
    want to become a "music evaluation service" that anybody can presume
    upon).
    
    All I've said is that this is tough tune for me to evaluate, and
    I've been pretty open about why; had Dan said he chose not to
    evaluate that Dreher tune he mentions (for whatever reason), I would
    have respected his desires and not said, "C'mon, you *have*
    to review it, you reviewed everything else".  Note that I didn't
    have a whole lot to say about Dave Dreher's submissions this time.
    
    I consider a review a responsibility, and if I can't say something
    meaningful (not necessarily positive), I'd rather not say anything
    than just pontificate.
    
    Now I've got myself a homework assignment; my first impressions
    weren't good enough.
    
    The easy ones are the ones that blow you away one way or the other,
    the ones that, to your own ears, are obviously incredibly good or
    incredibly bad.
    
    The hard ones are the ones that are less clear cut.  I'm caught
    in a conflict between my disinterest in (not rejection of) the subject
    matter, and my respect for Dan and his work and the tune's obvious
    competence (and that's *not* just a euphemism).
                                      
    len.
    
    

    Okay, so Event Horizon is _not_ what you like.  That's OK, art doesn't
    succeed unless it makes someone think.  Next tape I'll really offend
    somebody with a soundsculpture that _really_ doesn't go anywhere.
    
    (BtEH _does_ have a very deep pattern; listen to the chord 
    progression alone if you can and try to follow it.  It may be
    a little hard to conciously follow, but then again, you're not
    really supposed to be able to follow it easily.  There are some
    very subtle things happening between the obvious chord/inversion
    changes.                                    
    
    Maybe _too_ subtle?  :-)
    
    How to "get into" BtEH:  put it on, turn it up to about 85 dB, and
    lie on the floor between your speakers with your eyes closed.
    Then think about interstellar space.   Don't do this while driving
    a car.)

RE < Note 1556.40 by DRUMS::FEHSKENS >

	I'm making no demands on you SPECIFICALLY, Len.  The fact that db came
in and echoed your remarks caused me to plead for an overall willingness in
future reviews to bypass certain, shall we say, irritations, and review at some 
level.  Sure I like to be able to show off my musical work, but my intentions in
submitting my music is not just that - it's to get some feedback for future 
work.

	I would have to admit that I would have LIKED it if you, Len, had
given some consideration to the drum programming I labored on, since I
consider you a contributor to some of the ideas I used, both through things
learned from your writings, and through the discussion I initiated in the
DRUMS conference regarding this piece.  But don't do it just because you feel
backed into the corner - I'd feel like a heel if you did.

	Dan

    OK, BtEH is too subtle for my philistine's ears.  I still think
    the patch, no matter how many layers or oscillators, sounds awful.
    It is thin and whiney.  I have no intention of lying on the floor
    with my head between the speakers and thinking of the cosmos just
    so I can hear some subtlety.  This still sounds like crap to me.
    If you can find somebody else to buy it, more power to you, but
    I wouldn't part with a cent of my hard earned cash for this sort
    of thing.  So far, though, I don't seem to be the only COMMUSIC
    noter with this opinion.
    
    Dan, don't be so defensive.  I'm flattered that you value my opinion,
    and I will give it another listen.  I don't feel "backed into the
    corner".
    
    len.
    

    Len;
    
    	I'm not implying that you should like it; I'm glad to hear such
    things as "patch too thin and whiney".  It means you listened and
    thought.  My personal opinion of the mix was "too crowded", but
    this particular mix sort of grew on us (the band, that is).
    
    	The instructions on "how to get into" this music were for a
    previous noter who asked "how does one get into this music".  I'm
    not advocating anyone should be forcibly made to lie on the floor 
    with their head between their speakers. :-)
                                   
    You don't need to write out the chords.  Just be aware that there is at
    least an _attempt_ at a very fine (almost microscopic) structure of
    arpeggiations (phasing against each other) inside of the obvious (and
    slow) chord progression.  Whether or not it's audible to any given
    person is another question.
    
    Whether or not it's _pleasing_ is yet another question... 
             
    (and if I did offend you, either in the music or the note, I apologize)
    
    -----
    
    Please trust me; that piece is not an attempt to annoy you, nor
    an attempt to waste magnetic tape.  Some people do like it; some
    people react to E.H. like some people react to Christian music.
    
    That is; like beer and sodium.
    
    -----
    
    It seems that pieces based more on conventional instruments (vocal,
    guitar, piano) _tend_ to get better reviews than those based purely
    on electronic performance.  Does this mean that the COMMusicers
    don't make as good music as CONVmusicers, or that COMMinstruments
    aren't as good as CONVinstruments, or what?
    
    Or is COMMUSIC still too young to play with the Big Boys?
                                                             
    
    	-Bill
    

    Fellow Noters:
    	
    	At the risk of making a bad situation worse, I would like to
    urge all respondents to this note to take a step back and consider
    the point.  This is supposed to be a discussion of COMMUSIC V, (if
    I read the title correctly).  After a very inauspicious begining,
    we are fast degenerating into the same "Christians vs Lions" debate
    which took place over Dan's COMMUSIC III submission.
    	Now, don't get me wrong.  If the point of these notes is to
    provide a forum for this type of philosophical free-for-all, fine, 
    we are on the right track.  But I have learned a great deal from 
    all of you (Dan, Len, db, etc.) about music, in particular computer 
    music. When I tuned into this one, I was hoping to learn enough about 
    CM-V to decide to purchase it.  Maybe it's just me but there seems to
    be precious little about the tape in this note.
    	I support the right of all of us to write what ever we want
    in these notes.  But with the benefit of a little distance (read
    objectivity) I just thought I'd let people know what this note is
    begining to read like from out here.  
         
    Clusters,
    Bill Allen

    Well I've learnt a fat amount and it all sounds crap.
    
    (sorry -- just getting into the spirit of the debate).
    
    Richard.

	Guys, guys, listen, I haven't heard anything on COMMUSIC V or IV or
anyone's compostition for that matter, and yet I think I can safely say that
ALL entries had a lot of time put into them, and reflect on the performers
themselves.  It is a big thing to put together a song; I think some of us
may be forgetting that.  Perhaps if everyone, yes even len, entered a track
on the tape, then EVERYONE could hold heated conversations about music which
is completely personal anyway.  I don't think some of us are being quite fair.

�

RE the last few...

	It's interesting the way the electronic medium is unable to pass on 
the true spirit of the discussion.  I know that Len, db, and I are not all
hot and bothered about what we're writing concerning my CM V submission, but
because there are those that can't see our faces, know us personally, or feel
the weight at which our fingers are pressing our keyboards, it appears that
we are generating a lot of heat.  Nothing could be further from the truth.

	We're doing fine, folks.  Keep this in mind and re-read the replies, if 
you need to.

	Dan

    Re .45:
    
    Thanks, Bill.  That's what I was looking for.  I'll give it another
    try, at home this time, but I reserve the right to lie on my couch with
    headphones on instead.
    
    Re the notes about Dan's piece:
    
    I share Len's and Dave's reaction.  But I have heard Christian-oriented
    rock music that does let me get beyond the fact that I don't "like" the
    subject matter, and lets me really enjoy the song as music.  I'm
    thinking of many (though not all) of Bruce Cockburn's 70's-era
    Christian songs.
    
    Take a song like "All the Diamonds," which is available on Cockburn's
    "Waiting for a Miracle" compilation album - highly recommended!  It has
    definite Christian imagery which I do not "agree" with.  But it takes
    the religious beliefs as a starting point for personal expression.  The
    song conveys Cockburn's experience of his religious beliefs, rather
    than just stating his religious beliefs.  To me, that's an essential
    difference between religious music that I can listen to and accept on
    the composer's terms, and religious music that I cannot penetrate at
    all.
    
    This distinction is hardly limited to music with religious themes. 
    It's a part of what makes the difference between just-OK lyrics and
    fine lyrics in many forms.  Nobody said it's easy, and I sure don't
    claim to be able to do this myself.

RE < Note 1556.50 by BAVIKI::GOOD "Michael Good" >

                       -< More on religious rock lyrics >-
			     ^
			     |
			Or should this read "Moron religious rock lyrics"?

    Re: .50
    
    Good point Michael.  Bruce Cockburn has often been described as a
    Christian rocker who doesn't "sound" like a Christian rocker. I'm also
    a big fan of Cockburn's and you're right, he has a way of writing
    "Christian" songs that makes it more acceptable to a wider audience. 
    
    Maybe it's because you never get the impression he's overdoing it
    or pushing it on anyone--and, of course, the fact that he's a good
    songwriter might have *something* to do with it, too, I guess...
    
    And, while I'm here, I can't help but mention that I like hearing
    Dan's submissions.  I'd like to think the COMMUSIC tapes offer a
    wide variety of musical tastes--Dan's stuff emphasizes that variety
    and without it, the tapes would be that much less interesting.
    
    My review is in the works...
    
    Peter

    re dbII:  Your wife has the right idea(s) !
    
    Tell her "the check is in the mail" ...er, I mean "thank you".  
     
    		:-)
             
    
    Re: Cockburn: Quite.  Listen to "Rocket Launcher"; a beautiful example
    of righteous violence.  Very appealing; it's another one of those
    under-the-intellectual-radar pieces that I flamed about in the "Rough
    Mix" note.
    
    Don't mispercieve; I *like* "Rocket Launcher".  But it scares me.
    
    	-Bill
    

    I thought Dan's lyrics were mild.  Perhaps it's a good thing I can't
    sing, or perhaps I would have *really* been flamed. 

-b

	Concerning the Bottom's review of Dave Dreher's "covers"...

>	... these covers are as good as the originals.
>
>	her: I've heard these before eh? (me yup covers) Is good.

	from liner notes...

	1) One Good Dream
		Written by Dave Dreher, Ellen Dreher, Ron Ross

	2) Seasons
		Written by Dave Dreher, Ellen Dreher, Ron Ross

	3) Need You Tonight
		Written by Dave Dreher, Ellen Dreher, Ron Ross, Angel Clymes

	Dan

    whew, lose connectivity and there's so much to catch up on -
    
    re .45 - I realize the piece wasn't written to annoy me, and it's
    just my opinion anyway.  I gave BtEH a big relisten last night,
    so there's an addendum to my review going into the review note
    as soon as I can get there.  To defuse the suspense, I still don't
    like it.  But I'm not an important musical critic, just another
    COMMUSIC noter, so what difference does it make?
    
    re .46 and .49 - Dan, thanks for pointing out what we take for granted.
    This is not a hot and bothered discussion, this is just talking
    over the net using colorful language.  I also gave Dan's submission
    a relisten, and there's an addendum to that review too.  And to
    defuse *this* suspense, I though the drums were very good.   
    
    re .48 - I *have* submitted to COMMUSIC in the past, see my
    "GetSiriusNoah" on COMMUSIC III (or was it IV?).  I got my share
    of critical lumps.  Some people liked the piece, some couldn't make
    heads or tails out of it.
                                                              
    len.
    

	Thanks for the mostly positive responses so far.  I take production
	seriously as my goal is to produce a "hit" song in my basement.
	Right now I feel that best thing I've done so far might make a
	good 'B' side on a 45.  But things keep getting better and better.
	Boy, I could use an automated mixdown system now.  "Need you tonight"
	consisted of 7 8-trk tape channels, 6 Linndrum channels, 10 synth
	channels, and 6 effects returns.  Something was wrong on every
	mixdown.  Levels aren't too bad to control but bringing in different
	effects on different channels at the right time and level is tough 
    	to do.

	Respones to the "Review Note":

	As far as "Kind of abrupt ending", I haven't heard the final
	Commusic V product yet.  It sounds like an engineering glitch
	on the Commusic V tape.

	Dan Eatond - You are correct, it was a TX7 doing the piano in 
	"One good Dream" (In the right channel only, the left was an
	FB01 Piano.  This is much better for stereo sound and I do it
	alot with other instruments as well.).
	
	Bill Yerazunis - "Gentleman, We've arrived", Not quite.  We've
	still got a ways before our engineering and production approaches
	the "Big Boys".  There's a lot of hardware out there and we're still
	learning how to use it.

	Len Fehskens - My stuff was not mastered from 8-trk to the Commusic V
	master.  Everything was mixed down to a TASCAM 22-2.  That was then
	dubed to the Commusic V master.  "Frosted flakes and cream"?  I'll take
	that as the compliment, "Ear Candy".  The copies must be pretty clean
	if you can hear "Mic Noises".

	Dave Bottom - No, these are not covers, but it is a compliment 
	if you *thought* they were.

	Dave_who_needs_a_tape_to_do_a_review
                 

    Got back from Wash DC on Amtrak tonite, so I've read notes for hours.
    Anyway, Len is basically on the money as far as his remarks about
    my submissions.  He said I submitted throwaways.  He's right; I've
    never submitted important things to any network tape because I didn't
    want to lose the copyright.  Since I quit music and don't care anymore,
    I may submit a recording of something worthwhile next time.
    Len was also correct in observing that the timbre changes were
    gratuitous and on the bar; I did it to demo the amiga sounds and
    deluxe music changes instruments on the bar; I could have changed
    on the phrase by opening a new staff, but I was LAZY!! HEar that
    len, I DON'T CARE ABOUT MUSIC ANYMORE SO I WAS LAZY!!
    I also sent Len a tape of serious things done on the amiga a month
    ago and havn't received so much as an acknowledgement that he received
    it.
    To someone's wife who said Caterpillar Blews is like stuff taught
    to kiddies, Karl malik had trouble getting the rhythm of its sister
    piece caterpillar boogie straight on the mac sequencing program.
    or rather the repeat structure.  It is non subtle; none of you could
    play the piece from the score, most of you couldn't sequence it.
    It is also non-important.
    Tom

	Thanks, Len for part II.  Since I spent more time on the drums than on
any other portion of the piece, I really appreciate the comments.  And yes, I
think you may be right, my spice-rack may be empty.

	Dan

    C'mon guys,
    
    I think we're are approaching (or waving back to) a sitituation where
    people will no longer feel able to post honest reviews, and people
    will feel reluctant to submit anything for fear of having it torn
    apart for content (musical, philosophical, religious or whatever).
    
    Let's tone it all down huh?
    
    	db
    
    p.s. I echo Dan's comments that what Len, Dan and I were having was
    	 NOT a debate.

    Yep, my default position from now on is going to have to be,
    "Everything on the tape is wonderful, without even hearing it,
    because people deserve credit just for submitting", and "No, I
    can't submit anything, because of the copyright laws".
           
    It was fun while it lasted.
    
    len.
    

    If we are really going to hit ego problems with reviewers/submitters,
    then we need a proxy account on someone's machine called
    'COMMREVIEWER'.You log in, get into COMMUSIC, slag off the tape
    and log out again. That way, people like me get to hear the tape
    (I like to hear as many people's stuff as possible) and possibly
    comment on the bits I liked best. Submitters get to air their work,
    and possibly hear constructive/destructive commants. And reviewers
    can say what they like without fear of a rathole.
    
    Richard.

RE: len

    Does that mean we're not gonna ever hear your cover of "tutti frutti"? 

    Sigh.  And I've been waiting for it for soooooo long . . .  &*}

    re .57 - Dave Dreher: yep, frosted flakes and cream was meant as
    a compliment.  The day after the metaphor occurred to me, I went
    out and bought a box of Frosted Flakes and a pint of cream and pigged
    out.  As Tony the Tiger says, "Theyyyyyyyyrrrrrrr'e GREAT!".
    
    If you didn't mix down directly to the master compilation cassette,
    you did the next best thing; mix down to something other than a
    cassette, and dub from that to the master compilation cassette.  The
    point is that you avoided one generation of cassette; generations
    on cassette (1/8", 1.75 ips) cost a *lot* more (quality wise) than
    generations on 1/4" or 1/2" reel to reel (at 7.5 ips or 15 ips),
    and it shows.
    
    If the tune with the abrupt ending is the one with the "it's not
    natural, it's not chemical, it's not physical" or whatever, then
    there's no dubbing glitch.  The song really ends that way.
                      
    len.
    

    Acchhhtttt!  
    
    The "unsophisticated bass patch" in BtEH _is not_ a bass patch. It's a
    real live Rickenbacker 4001 blonde-body electric bass guitar, with a
    real live bass guitarist with real bass guitarist blisters! 
    
    (I guess Len just don' like the Rickie sound)
                                                 
    	:-)
    
                                                              
    Set (sarcasm=3, safety=0)
    
    	First they say my Bagpipe patch doesn't sound like bagpipes,
    	then they say that the electric guitar doesn't sound like an
    	electric guitar.  
    	
    	When will this end?     
    
    	(an idea begins to dawn...) 
    
    	
    		-Bill

    We must be talking about different sounds.  What's the *VERY first
    sound* to be heard in BtEH (before the first appearance of the big
    chords)?  You can't convince me that's a Rickenbacker 4001.  But
    I'd definitely call it a bass patch.  Maybe it's a tenor patch?
    
    I happen to own a Rickenbacker, even though it's a 12 string.
    
    If there's a "real live" Rickenbacker 4001 (a sound I know quite
    well, and like when used appropriately) in BtEH, I can't hear it. 
                                                                   
    len.
    

>Note 1524.11  RANGLY::BOTTOM_DAVID 
    
>Karl Moeller: other two: (compositions)

>.... go get a job playing for a real good band like Yes
>or someone with class and stop fooling around, has no direction. 

    Dave, I did the band thing to death back in the late 60's/early
    70's.  Just doesn't work for me.
    
>her: Liked Still Life better.     
    Of COURSE you liked 'Still Life' (piano solos) better.  I've had
    many years to make friends with the piano and clarify my approach.

>Are these experiments just to learn something?
    Absolutely !  I never had the audio resources to do string arrangements
    etc. before.  This is a whole new thing, and I've only been playin
    the MIDI studio (a whole new instrument that just happens to have
    a KX88 keyboard attached) for two years or so.  Weigh that against
    my solo piano background.
    
>Karl you're too good to continue to play with yourself like this. 
    Gosh.. given that I'd rather not play with others, it seems the
    only choice, other than 'giving up music' (sure.)..
    
>The high strings in Suite pt. 1 (The Procession) drove me crazy, sounds 
>like someone is torturing small animals in the back room ...
     The only small animal around was my black cat Sushi.. I'd occasionally
    torment her by ruffling the fur on her belly.  Uh, does this mean
    I
     (thanks EVE, you bitch!) need to come up with a real melody line
    for it ??
    
    karl
    
                          

    
    Re- Dave Drehers comments on my second piece.
    
    As an indication of the subjectivity of all this. I worked for 2
    hours to perfect the buzzy sound on the bass patch. Inbuilt
    imperfections have always been my drawback *-).
    
    				Peekay.

    Dave -- the North of England is so damp that yer pickups rust the
    moment you take yer new bass out of its case. Hence Paul's efforts
    to reproduce the sound of a rusty, warped Jazz bass with dry-rot.
    
    Richard.

>Note 1524.15                  Commusic V Reviews                        15 of 17
>DFLAT::DICKSON "Koyaanisqatsi"                      140 lines  30-AUG-1988 14:06>>
>
>    All I can say is that your typewriter has good penmanship, but you aren't
>saying anything with it.  In the meantime, please spare us your typing
>exercises. 

    I don't really take exception to your review, but you are technically
    incorrect.  POint of fact : I don't type in the score.  I mouse
    in the score in musical notation on an Amiga.
    Tom

    Response to DFLAT::DICKSON "Koyaanisqatsi"  Note 1524.15 

    >One good dream (Dreher) --------------------------------------------
    >I thought disco was dead.

    When is the last time you went to a dance club?  Funny, I never considered
    this 'disco'...Do you still have your "Disco Sucks" T-shirt?  ;^)


    >Seasons (Dreher) ----------------------------------------------------------
    >Like being hit in the forehead with a two-by-four every other beat.  

    Yea, that snare drum is too loud.


    >Need you tonight (Dreher) -----------------------------------------------
    >I just prefer dance music that doesn't have any drums at all. 

    Say WHAT?  Dance music without drums?  Hmmmmm, like waltzes and fiddle jigs?


    Dave

>    When is the last time you went to a dance club?
I never did, but I saw it on TV back when it was still "in".  To me, this stuff
sounded like that stuff did.  Maybe there is some distinguishing subtlety
of which I am not aware.

>    Hmmmmm, like waltzes and fiddle jigs?
You got it.