Conference napalm::commusic_v1

    
    Hi, Dan!
    
    I have a Casio MIDI box I bought at the MacWorld Expo that's never
    been used.  Takes batteries (also AC, I think) and has eight or
    so inputs, two outputs.  Any or all of the inputs can be assigned
    to either output.
    
    Yours for $20, with little manual.
    
    If you want me to bring it to work tomorrow, catch me by 5:00 today
    or call me at home and leave a message tonight: (617) 887-9896.
    
    ROSS WARNER

    the KX88 merges 'in' with its own generated events, everything goes
    out the 'thru' port.. of course, there's a keyboard attached...
    
    (wink)

    I've seen them for around $120.00 locally. The MMT-8 has one built
    into it. I'm told (by some amegos that have them for thier rigs)
    that they are often available mail order for 80.00 to $100.00.
    
    								Jens

	Thanks to all so far for the suggestions ('cept Karl 8^).  The thru box
mentioned (if I am thinking of the same one) doesn't merge (though I plan on
picking it up, anyway).  I'm still looking for specific suggestions on merge
boxes, specific brands, specific excperiences...

	Dan

    Dan,

    I went through a similar loop recently (albeit in the U.K.), and
ended up buying an XRI (Micon) MIDI merger. I don't know if these are
available in the States, but over here they cost about 70 pounds. The
unit is very small (smaller than Boss Micro-rack size) and has two MIDI
ins, a Thru and two merged Outs.

    I use it to play along with my sequencer (so that I can play my MT-32
at the same time as the Atari ST plays the MT-32 drums), and haven't had
any problems other than those caused by my own incompetance :^)

    The other units I've heard of which do a similar thing are the Yamaha
(am I allowed to say that ?) YMC-10 and an Akai box (afraid I don't know 
the number). The Yamaha retails at about 90 pounds, the Akai is a bit
more.

    Hope this is of use.

Regards,

    Derek.

	Thanks, Derek, I'll look around for it.

    re. .5
    
    	I am also looking for an inexpensive way to MIDI-merge a synth
    and drum machine with my PC-based sequencer.  I have a Yamaha MTX2
    (4-track mixer/recorder) and had heard of the YMC-10(?), but didn't
    realize it would allow me to MIDI-merge.
    
    	For the sake of clarity, here's what I am trying to do:
    
    K-5 synth	out   --->   
                in    <---    Y a m a h a     out  --->  in     PC
                                YMC-10        in   <---  out  Sequencer
    R-50 drum   out   --->    
    	        in    <---	                                  
                                                                
    Right now, I have the R-50 slaved through the K5 which goes to 
    the PC, because the Voyetra OP-4001 only has one IN and OUT.  
    If I remember correctly, the YMC-10 bolts on the back of the MTX2.
    
    Is this the kind of thing you are talking about, Dan et al.?
    
    Clusters,
    Bill                                                             

RE < Note 1482.7 by NCVAX1::ALLEN >

	The YMC-10, I believe, only takes care of converting a sync signal to
MIDI clock message.  Anyone lese know for sure?

	From a coupla calls, I have found out that the YMM-2 is Yamaha's
version of merge box.  It has two ins, one merge out and two thru's.
                                                                
	Dan

    I don't think the KX88 doesn't function as a true merger - at least not
    if the electronics are the same as the KX76.  It gets real upset about
    high data rates or (ulp!) SYSEX dumps being sent thru it.  At least
    mine does. 

    Oh.  Karl - FYI - we had 104�F and 72% humidity yesterday.  We don't
    thud, we squish.

-b

    
    Check the MX-8.
    
    Does LOTS more than merging.
    
    ~$350 or so.....havent checked lately....
    

    ron
        

    I need a midi merge to merge the midi output of my newest "toy" (Yword
    DD-5 digital drums, so 'toy' is also quite literal) with my HR-16's
    midi out, both feeding my sequencer.
    
    All I need is two in, one out.  Gotta be cheap, i.e. <$100, preferably
    much <.
    
    I've checked notes 701 (don't wanna build my own), and 1600 (Yword
    box, but no one seemed sure of the model #/price).
    
    Thanks,
    Rodney M.

    Dunno if this will help, but can you use the merge facility of
    your HR to fix this???
    
    Edd

    Oops!
    
    You're right, Edd.  If I wanted to merge the DD5's and HR's outputs,
    all I'd have to do is DD5 out to HR in, and HR out to sequencer in, with
    the HR's merge-midi-in-with-midi-out enabled.  
    
    But I misspoke.
    
    What I *really* want to do is merge the sequencer's output with
    the DD5's output to drive the HR's midi in.  In other words, I want
    to play drums/record along with the sequence.  I hate trying to draw on
    a terminal, but:
    
   +-------+
   |DD5 out --->---+                 The DD5 has midi out only.
   +-------+       |
                   +---> HR-16 in
   +---------+     |     |
   | Seq. out-->---+     |    HR-16 in merge-midi-in-with-midi-out mode
   +---------+           v
   | Seq. in <---------< HR-16 out
   +---------+
    
   I have a couple of thru boxes. Can I do what I wanna do without a
    merge box?
    
    Rodney M.
    

    What kinda sequencer?  Most have a merge capability (Y-word calls it
    "echo back" or some such rot). 

-b

    Can you do this???
    
    
           SEQ-out ----> DD IN   DD OUT ---> HR-IN  HR OUT ---> SEQ-in
    
    Set HR to RX & TX MIDI notes and to merge IN to out...
    
    I'm assuming you want the drum patterns on the sequencer...
    
    Edd

    No IN, huh...
    
    Rodney, you need a MERGE BOX. Or an IN port...
    
    Edd

    That's right, no IN.  Like I said, it's little more than a toy,
    but it's a cheap (80 bucks at Service Merchandise) 4-pads to midi
    converter.  The onboard sounds are useless (IMO), but it does have
    a midi out, and that's all I need. What would *really* be neat is if
    the canned rhythms generated midi output. Alas...
    
    Anyway, now that we've (re)established that I need a merge box, 
    I'm still open to recommendations.
    
    Rodney

    WHAT KIND OF SEQUENCER ARE YOU USING??? 

-b

    I'm using Cakewalk on an IBM clone. Can merge midi in w/midi out.
    
    Why?
    
    

    Then why not cable them like this?

	DD --> IBM --> HR

    Or is there something else going into the IBM?

-b

    There's a DX11 going into the IBM, but that's not the problem; I
    could always pull the plug when doing drum sequencing, and simply
    use the DX as an SGU.
    
    The problem is that to record say, fills or an additional drum part
    while playing back the prerecorded drum sequence (from either the HR
    or IBM's sequencer), it seems to me I need:
    
    DD --> IBM --> HR->
            ^         | 
            |_________v
    
    Still requiring merging two outputs (DD & HR) to a single input
    (IBM). I'm relatively new at this.  Am I missing something? 

    Appreciatively yours,
    
    Rodney M.

    If you're recording drum sequences on the PC, then cable as follows:

	DD --> HR (echo out MIDI notes) --> PC

    If you're recording drum sequences on the HR, then just:

	DD --> HR

    You don't *NEED* a merger - but one would certainly make life easier. 

-b

    re. .23
    
    Thanks, Brad. I hit upon it myself over the weekend "by accident"
    while trying to figure out what note numbers the DD-5 transmitted.
    I recorded it into the PC, which happened to be 'echoed' to the
    HR, and voila!
    
    This midi topology stuff is 'interesting' isn't it?
    
    Rodney M.
    
    

    
    
    Hey I actually saved some money by finding a workaround to my merging
    problems this weekend.
    
    Consider the following.
    
    I have a KX88 driving a Qx5 sequencer which in turn drives my "sgu's". 
    
    I also have an atari which I use for voicing and general housekeeping
    etc....
    
    With me so far ?
    
    I can combine the signal of the Kx88 and the atari using the midi-merge
    of the KX88.
    
    However I have 5 different SGU's which all need to get access to
    the in port of the atari. But only when I am working on that particular
    object and only one at a time. 
    
    Now we all know that you can't just connect midi wires together
    to create a parrallel or serial? connection because they would confuse
    the recipient of the signal as to where the particular bits of bytes
    were coming from. 
    
    But what if you knew as i do that only one SGU whould be outputing
    at a time. Now I remeber when wiring up terminal configurations
    to a current loop standard that we used to get allsorst of wierd
    things happening on terminals if we got shorts in the system. I.E.
    machine initiated messages intended for one terminal being broadcast
    on other screens due to poor electrical connection of the terminal
    cables.
    
    So what I did was connect as follows.
    
        |------------------------------------------------------------------
        |                                                                  |
        |--------SGU<-----|                                                |
        |                 |                                                |
        |--------SGU<-----1-5 thrubox<-----QX5<------ KX88 <---- Atari<----|
        |                 |
        |--------SGU<-----|                                               
    
    
    The point being that the connections out of the SGUs are Just midi
    cables twisted together no merging or patching involved.
    
    And it works.
    
    Any Comments ??
    
                                                           
    
    				Paul.

    ...and it should work.  Until and unless any of two of the SGU's
    try and transmit at the same time... this includes any "active sensing"
    capability.
    
    You might want to install protective diodes in your system so that
    the MIDI outs of your SGU's don't see each other's current pulses.
    (they might eventually blow the output drivers).
    
    Other than that, it's OK.
    
    	-Bill

When you say 'twisted together' do you mean in parallel or series?

I have a similar problem on a smaller scale.  My keyboard is a Yamaha SHS-10,
which only has a MIDI OUT, no IN or THRU.  (Cost $120 at Sears.)  My sgu
is an FB01, which has IN, OUT, and THRU.  My Mac has an IN and an OUT.

Now, when I am working with *music*, the sgu has nothing interesting to
say to me, so I can hook thinks in series  KBD->MAC->SGU.  No problem
there.

But when working with voice-editing software, the Mac and SGU need to
exchange stuff both ways.  *But* it is convenient to have the keyboard
present for trying out the new patches, etc.

Once START is pressed on the SHS-10, it emits MIDI-CLOCK, but I think it
is quiet if I stay away from its built-in sequencer.  So perhaps a
passive connection like this would work.  Or else I need a switch.  I
don't want to damage any drivers though, and they always say "turn power
off before changing cables".

I would do it like this:

	KBD-->#
	      #--->Mac--->SGU---+
	   +-># 		|
	   |			|
	   +--------------------+

Where the ### is either a switch or a passive merge.  (The Mac will pass
THRU anything it gets during "test patch" mode.)

    
                                     
    By twisting I just meant bearing the wires and twisting the relevant
    pairs to together. In fact I have 4 SGU-s inputing thru a connector
    block straight into the atari. 
    
    
    I reckon that providing you can guarantee that you are not going
    to output from bith midi-devices at the same time then a merge of
    this sort will be O.K. I am however unsure of the potential for
    breaking something electrically.
    
    No Merging and No patching.
    
    				Paul.
                               

    Its been a while since anyone entered a note here. Does anyone know
    what merge devices are available nowdays and for what $$ amount??
    
    I'm in the market in case anyone is looking to get rid of theirs.
    
    Jim
    

re  <<< Note 1482.30 by ROYALT::ORSHAW "Associate FTSG membership pending....." >>>
>                              -< Updated info?? >-

>    Its been a while since anyone entered a note here. Does anyone know
>    what merge devices are available nowdays and for what $$ amount??
    
>    I'm in the market in case anyone is looking to get rid of theirs.


	There's a design in this month's EM  - -  looks OK, if don't 
mind a bit of soldering work and time so you can save a few $s.

	R

    re -.1
    
    
    Second on the EM article. It not only explains the design of the box,
    it also explains in excellent detail, the problems and solutions when
    merging two MIDI data streams. Good reading even if you aren't going to
    build the project.
    
    dp

	Take a look at the Anatek POCKET series.  They have a MIDI
        merger for $99.00 (but I paid $82.00 locally). 
							Jens

    Well, I've now had two MIDI merge boxes and BOTH of them gave me
    problems.
    
    I had a Yamaha Y?M?C?  which would freeze up periodically (although I
    understand that Yamaha now has a fix for that).
    
    And I have one of those Anatek MIDI merges but the problem is that when
    I plug it in, I get an incredible amount of noise through the audio
    lines. 
    
    I'm told that MIDI gear has the ground isolated so it shouldn't be
    a ground loop, but I get a pretty bad hum.
    
    I really liked the IDEA of a the Anatek because unlike my first box,
    it was small and didn't require any connection to a power source.  This
    means it's one less thing to have to connect when setting up.
    
    In fact, it's so small, I was just going to keep it permanently
    attached to the snake of MIDI cables I have for my gigging rig.
    
    Sigh...
    
    	db

re .31 & .32
    
	Having re-read the EM article I now realize that its not just 
a design and some back-ground stuff.   Its also  a plug for Jameco, 
who make the PC (NOT Personal Comp____, never mind) board for $28, can 
supply the pre-blasted EPROMs for $10 and a suitable enclosure #H2851, 
no price quoted.  In short you can just call 'em up and ask for 
everything you'll need to put it together - doesn't seem to require 
much skill at all.... hardly a challenge (-:

	Reg

    I can't seem to find anyone who sells this Magazine. Can you post their
    address and phone number??  I'll probably give them a call.
    
    Jim

re << Note 1482.36 by ROYALT::ORSHAW "Associate FTSG membership pending....." >>>
>                                -< phone #??? >-

>    I can't seem to find anyone who sells this Magazine. Can you post their
>    address and phone number??  I'll probably give them a call.

	Sure, 

		Electronic Musician Offices
		Subscription Services Office
		PO Box 41094  Nashville TN  37204
		(800) 808 5139

	...and JAMECO Electronics

		(415) 529-8097	{don't call from dec's phone (-:}

	...and Kent Clark, author of the Midi Merge article and source 
	for the PC board and EPROMS

		Kent Clark
		MIDI PCB,
		PO Box 322
		Madison  AL  35758


	If you start a subscription to the magazine you'll probably 
miss the Nov issue - I dunno if its legal for me to copy the article 
for you, probably not.  I could probably lend it to you though  ???

	Reg

    THe recent discussion on MIDI merge boxes (sorry - I get to these 
    about a week late) has prompted me to mention the 2M Midi Merge 
    unit from Philip Rees in the UK.  Philip Rees make a range of Midi 
    switches, mergers and expanders, including a dinky little 
    1-in-3-thru which cost me all of 12.95 pounds.
    
    I've no experience of the 2M, but the spec looks good.  It has 1 
    thru output for each of its 2 inputs, and the merge output is 
    duplicated (2 identical merge outputs).  It "recognises all MIDI 
    data including MTC & sysex and has many automatic features to 
    optimise performance and convenience".  Their flyer then goes on 
    to describe how they handle system real time messages, time 
    sensitive system common messages, MTC, sysex and pitch bend 
    summing.
    
    UK RRP is about 80 pounds, including integral mains supply.
    
    Alex
    

    I have the 2M box. It works pretty well, EXCEPT for SYSEX handshaking.
    When I run an Editor (MT32/CZ/FB) which squirts out SYSEX stuff (&
    expects replies), the 2M generates random Pitch-Wheel data.
    
    I fiddled with this for some time, and it definitely points to the 2M.
    They may have fixed this (I bought one in early '90), but BEWARE !!
    
    Jim Burke