Conference napalm::commusic_v1

RE < Note 1476.0 by NCVAX1::STEINHARDT "Send lawyers, guns, and money" >

	To start with, you can give me your CS20M!

	Dan

    
    
    Keep the amps. The Leslie can be adapted too, especially if you're
    still gonna play organ.
    
    Take Dan up on the cs20m offer ;^)
    
    You could either keep the Rhodes at home, or sell it. I stopped
    hauling heavy pianos around five years ago, it was worth it to my
    back to get a 'piano-like' light keyboard (At this point I have
    a sampler to make piano-sound). The YC25D is probably still fine,
    if you're going to play rock and you're not worried about changing
    your entire rig's patches with one keystroke... Besides, you need
    something to play through your Leslie.
    
    good luck.
    
    
    /pjh

    

    If you sell the Rhodes, you'll probably get $350 at best.  Go ahead
    and keep it at home and just plug all your klunky guitar effects
    into the loop.
    
    Ashley

    I have a Rhodes Stage 73 that is in mint condition.  It's been out of
    the house twice (once to move from one house to another).  I can't get
    anyone to even call about it, and I'm only asking $200. 

    If you don't have a piano, keep the Rhodes for the sake of your chops.
    If you already have a piano, and happen to own a boat ... 

    Oh - a MIDIot friend of mine has a whole rack full of gear - AND a
    Y-word CS synth like you have.  He gets some killer lead sounds out of
    it.  I'd hang on to it if I were you.  It's not that much trouble to
    haul one around (sorry, Dan). 

-b

    re: .1
          
    Dan, it not only has a case, after it was purchased new at EU
    Wurlitzer's Framingham in 1980, I took it straight over to ATS in
    Natick where they custom built a top-quality flight case, that I
    suspect maybe worth almost as much as the CS today.  As such,
    it is still in showroom condition, despite several years of gigs
    and getting hauled up the elevator at MCM.  A major problem in your
    effort to check it out may lie in the fact that it currently sits
    with me here in Apple Valley, Minnesota.
    
    Cheers,
    Ken
                
          

    I'd keep that gear.  You won't be able to get what it's worth to
    you (maybe $500 for the entire setup), and you certainly won't be
    able to replace it when you want it back.  Put it in the cases and
    toss them behind the shoes in your closet.
    
    I'd suggest adding either a _GOOD_ synth/sampler or a cheap (but still
    velocity-sensitive) synth _and_ a rackmount sampler, as well as an
    effect (reverb?) or two.  You don't have to carry everything to
    every gig.  Possibly the Rhodes + MIDI synth + reverb, or the CS plus a
    MIDI sampler + reverb would be enough. 
    
    If you really like (i.e. get along well with, get most of the sounds
    you want out of) the CS20M, then get just an inexpensive sampler
    (recommend used Mirage, avoid the S-10, it's junk) and go gig. 
    
    You can sample your Rhodes into the Mirage and also a few of your
    favorite CS sounds, so you can have a decent choice of sounds onstage
    (and two independent keyboards, so if one goes ZOTTT the other can
    fill in). 
    
    Buying a velocity-sensitive MIDI keyboard will not only get you
    that second KB (and backup sound generator chain); it will also
    let you add rackmount sound generator modules as you want them (both
    synth and sampler modules).  Keyboardless modules are CHEAP compared
    to keyboards ($500 versus $1500). 
                      
    If things go really well, you can then add a second high-performance
    keyboard (S-50, D-50, EPS, SQ-80, etc) and control all of your MIDI
    rackmount modules from the two keyboards.  If things don't go well
    (you don't end up gigging a lot, band breaks up, etc) you haven't
    invested much that you can't recoup on resale fairly easily.  And
    you'll have gained additional redundancy.
    
    Opinion 1:  Unless you're trying to do perfect covers, you don't need
    to get an exact duplicate of any sound.  Close enough is close enough,
    especially with most of the sound reinforcement systems I've seen.
    (How did you make the Moog crackle like that??? :-) )
    
    Opinion 2:  Used equipment is usually a bargain.  Especially look
    for the "used-mint condition" stuff.  A lot of that stuff is bought
    by someone who quickly loses interest and puts their new toy aside.
    Usually the factory patches are still intact.  Spend a few hours
    in the music store (or the seller's garage) checking out all of
    the features.  If everything works and the price is right, it's 
    checkbook time.  Even a heavily-gigged machine _can_ be a bargain,
    but check everything (and leave it running for at least an hour,
    to see if the machine has any thermal problems).                   
    
    Opinion 3:  Used gear that doesn't have a manual usually has been
    beat up _much_ worse than gear that does have the manual.  It just
    seems to work out that way.
                                                                       
    Opinion 4: Redundancy is important!  I'd rather have two ESQ-1's
    than a single D-50 (if I was out gigging professionally).  You don't
    need two of the _same_ machine, just try to avoid single devices
    that, when they fail/dropped/wet/stolen kill all of your sound.
                                                              
    Opinion 5: _EVERYTHING_ that goes on a gig goes there in a case.  This
    not only preserves your investment, it makes it a lot more likely that
    you actually will go on, on time.  Even if the roadies look like they
    mostly eat bananas and swing on tree branches. 
    
             -Bill (who sometimes even follows his own advice.)

    
    	It's good to see another new COMMUSICer from these parts mucking
    about in these notes.  I have found them INVALUABLE in helping me
    get started and answering questions.  Most of what you have seen
    in my "studio" (please) is the direct result of suggestions from
    these pages.  (I think that someone should DECpage this stuff and
    make some REAL money!).
    
    	As we've discussed a little bit, your needs are a bit different
    from mine in that the emphasis is LIVE vs STUDIO.  Still, I agree
    with Bill Y. (-.1), you need to build some MIDI capability to create
    a more user friendly performing environment (access to unlimited
    sounds and effects, not to mention sequencing) and to gain some
    price protection.  The market for used gear here in the Twin Cities
    is pretty decent, given the hordes of teenagers trying to be the
    next Prince or Replacements.  If you keep an eye in CITY PAGES or
    sometimes even the TWIN CITIES READER, you will find recent vintage
    MIDI gear at realistic prices.  (Let's face it, if you had a choice
    between the down payment on a boat on Lake Minnetonka and synthesizer,
    which would you choose?  Oh... you would?  Well, anyway...).
    
    	I don't know much about samplers, although a good case for one
    has been made, above. If you are going for a MIDI synth be sure it is:
    1)  Multi-Timbral, capable of playing more than one voice at a time.
        Any good synth has to do this to be competitive, now.
    2)  Has at least 8 voices because you'd be surprised at how quickly
        you can use up voices once you get going.  They should also
        be able to be dynamically allocated by the synth, so that chords
    	don't get cut off as you play.
    3)  Velocity sensitive
    4)  Has a "touch" you can live with.  Some of the units I played
        turned me off right away because of their "toy piano" feel.
    5)  Is set up to be played live (from an ergonomic standpoint).
        Although this is not an issue for me, I can't imagine how some
        of the synths I looked at could be comfortably handled in a
        live performance (too complicated).
    
    One more source of information is back issues of KEYBOARD, ELECTRONIC
    MUSICIAN, and other mags at the St. Paul Public Library.  I often
    check on a product there first, and then come here to find out the
    "real deal".  
    
    Clusters,
    Bill (Who was intelligent, but now is turning into a MIDIot) Allen
    

    re .7:
    
    	The only thing I'd hassle you on is "Is 8 voices a minimum"?
    
    	I've seen cases where six voices was more than enough, and cases
    where 16 wasn't (but that was studio work).
    
    	Just because a synth makes only six voices, you shouldn't 
    automatically rule it out.  A good MIDI implementation will
    get you a lot further than two extra voices.  
    
    -----
    
    	Care to tell us what your band will be playing?  
    
    	And- what it is that you want to play, deep down in your heart?
    
    

    to .7, Bill, you and I should head out of here and check out some
    of these new toys sometime, I believe that you are significantly
    more informed on the technology side of this today than I am, I'll
    stick to trying to play killer licks as best as I can.
    
    to .8, Ah, a true musician who recognizes the difference between
    what one makes spare change with and what one would rather be doing!
    The current band (known as "Fat Chance", a phrase coined by the
    drummer after his first practice with the guitar and bass) is three
    other musician-at-heart professionals and myself.  We are selective
    about random gigs, as their professions include a dentist, a manager
    for the IRS (!), and a communications manager at the Mayo Clinic.
    The philosophy of this band is to play very simple music very, very
    well, with four strong lead vocals and as much practice on the
    harmonies as the music.  The material is very 60ish, with lots of
    motown (Temps, Tops), lots of traditional early rock, some done ala Grateful
    Dead (Rascals, Buddy Holly, Chuck Berry), and smatterings of almost
    everything.
    
    Prior to moving to MN four years ago, I was playing all originals
    with a band out of Worcester.  The style ranged from Kansas-like
    and Yes-like complexity for the sake of complexity to reggae to
    straight hard rock.  We used to open a lot of club gigs for people
    like the Stompers, Fools, John Butcher Axis, American Standard Band,
    August, and such.  Playing progressive originals is fun, although
    few outside of other musicians and "a small circle of friends" seem
    interested.  Frank Zappa once summed up the situation possibly best
    by referring to the perception that America would not know good
    music if it came up and bit it on the posterior.
    
    Soooo, today in public I play things like Johnny B. Goode, while
    in practice I compose original material.
    
    Not-Really-Trying-To-Be-The-Next-Prince,
    Ken
                          
                                 

    re .8
    
    	A big TEN-FOUR !!!  Like any other "feature", it would be a
    mistake to base a buying decision on this one alone.  My comments
    certainly betray my bias toward the studio.  That is where all of
    my work is done.  I never thought about the possibility that one
    might not need as many on-stage, with certain material.
    (And certainly you can find one more thing to hassle me on!)
    
    -----------------------------------------------------------------
     
    By all means, Ken, let's wade into the local music establishments!
    A completely different experience awaits you.
    
    Clusters,
    Bill