Conference napalm::commusic_v1

    The Mirage will support LOCAL OFF with > V3.2 OS.
    
    From your description, you'll also need the ability to have seperate
    TX and RX channel arguments IN ADDITION TO local off.
    
    The DX-21 does NOT support LOCAL OFF.
    
    Neither of these 2 units support BOTH features.
    
    Edd

    ESQ-1; 8 voice poly-timbral, receive up to 9 channels (8 plus base)
    Appx. $800-900 used; $1395 list new.

RE < Note 1455.1 by JAWS::COTE "Look!! Eeet eees BASSOON!" >

>    The DX-21 does NOT support LOCAL OFF.

	BUT, you can specify DIFFERENT channels for xmit/recieve.    
    

    The JX-10 supports local off, but you *cannot* specify different
    channels for send and receive.  This latter restriction is really
    bizarre, as it lists the send and receive channels separately.
    Note that having local off but not being able to send and receive
    on different channels seriously compromises the JX-10's utility
    as a master keyboard (which it is otherwise quite nice for, being
    76 keys and velocity and aftertouch sensitive).
    
    I'll never understand Roland's little blindnesses.
    
    len.
    

    The Roland D50 does support local off, and you can assign different
    receive/transmit channels.  The way this can be used is that one
    global receive channel can be defined, and each patch has a
    programmable transmit channel.  Very flexible.  Let's see, what
    else:  it has a light action (too light for my preference), about
    5 octaves, channel (monophonic) aftertouch, and the synth that comes
    with the controller sounds great!
    	Actually, the one thing I didn't like about the synth was its
    action, but you may prefer it.  Another thing I notice (again, could
    just be my style of playing) is that when played very percussivey,
    the keys bounce, so the note may sometimes retrigger (very lightly).
    Oh, and of course, it is velocity sensitive.  Price = $1595?  Paid
    list for mine when it first came out (don't care to say how much
    that was).
    
    	Good luck
    
    			Ron

Thanks to Brian.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
From:	AQUA::ROST         "BRIAN ROST___MRO1-2/E47___DTN:297-6289" 13-JUN-1988 21:18
To:	ANTARE::NORCROSS
Subj:	MIDI Controller



     It's not a controller, but you might want to track down a Casio CZ-1.

     It has both velocity and mono aftertouch, and is a multi-timbral
     eight voice synth to boot.

     They can be had mailorder from NYC or used in Want Ads in the $600
     range.

     You can indeed separate the keyboard (send) function from the 
     synth (receive) function as you asked about the Roland D10.

     If you want to mailorder, go to the public library and look at the ads
     in the back of the camera mags.  Call up the stores advertising Casio
     stuff and check if they still have CZ-1s.



     						Brian

    I have a Yamaha DX-11, which is essentially a TX81Z with a
    velocity/pressure sensitive keyboard.
    
    Supports LOCAL ON/OFF and different channels for transmission and
    reception.  $895 list.
    
    Check it out.
    
    Rodney M.

    re .5 - is the D50 patch transmit channel actually the channel the
    *keyboard* sends on, or the channel over which the auxiliary MIDI
    information is transmitted when the patch is selected?  The JX-10
    has the latter feature (i.e., when I select a patch, I can
    automatically transmit over a specified (by the patch) MIDI channel
    a bunch of MIDI messages, including a different patch change). 
    However, the patch selection itself, and any MIDI messages from
    the keyboard, are sent out over the global transmit channel, which
    is forced to be the same as the global receive channel.  I *can*,
    in split mode, set up one half of the JX-10 (i.e., a JX-8P) to receive
    on a different channel, I think.
    
    len.
    

    re: .2
    
    Although I'm a big fan of the ESQ-1 I think it has some limitations as
    a keyboard controller:
    
    	o It can only send out on one channel
    
    	o You can't split the keyboard into different MIDI channels
    
    At the back of the manual they do tell you how to use it as a system
    controller and it does system configuration type things pretty well,
    but as far as using the actual KEYBOARD as a controller, it's sorta
    limited for the reasons given above.
    
    I also consider the inability to merge combined with the lack of THRU
    to present a considerable hindrance.
    
    However, none of these are problems for me because where the ESQ-1
    fails as a keyboard controller, the RD-300 does fine; and where the
    RD-300 fails as a system controller, the ESQ-1 does fine.
    
    That's why I bought them both at the same time.
    
    	db

    The Roland D10 supports 'Local-On/off' it even has 2 channels for
    the keyboard to send each channel can be individually programmed.
    This is very useful in split mode. The keyboard is velocity sensitive
    and is 5 octaves wide. The keyboard is 8 channel multi timbral and
    has an extra channel for the drum machine and or drum sounds (PCM).
    
    Don't know the price in the states but can be found elsewhere in
    this notesfile.
    
    Doesn't AKAI have an master keyboard controller??
                                
    Pete.

    1) An old DX7 with E! supports local off (per patch, even).  Cost
      is about $1100, used
    
    2) The Kawai K5 ($1350) and K1 ($900) support local off.
    
    3) New DX7 types (DX7IIF* ($1500) and DX7s ($1100)) provide local off,
       I think.
    
    Steph
    

	RE: -.2

		The AKAI keyboard controller is the MX73; I bought one last 
year. It has velocity sensitivity but no aftertouch; the keyboard (six full 
octaves) can be split into four areas, all separately programmable regarding
velocity sensitivity, MIDI channel, MIDI mode, etc.

	It costs about �399 in the U.K.

	I don't like the velocity action on it (I prefer the DX11's action) as 
you don't have to hit the keys very hard to get full velocity transmitted. 
This makes it very hard when using piano patches to put any feel into the 
piece that you are playing.

					Andy    

Thank you all, for all your input.

I'm still thinking about what I want to do to get the controller/synth
capabilities that I need. I suspect, though, that I should keep the two
functions separate. I think modularity will keep the complications to
a minimum, and that a real keyboard controller will offer me unexpected
useful features.

Thanks again,
/Mitch

    I'm coming to the same conclusion, but I'm still hoping for that
    controller/synth combo. I'm seeking:
    
        - At least 76 keys... no particular feel needed (but not K1000)
        - Ability to split keyboard and send on two midi channels
        - Great sound!
    
    I'll be driving a PX1000, initially.
    
    As for pure controllers, if you're thinking that way now, I've just
    gotten the following prices from Sam Ash:
    
       - Yamaha KX-88         $1292 plus 50-60 shipping
       - Yamaha KX-76           802         20
       - Kawai M-8000         $1257         ?
    
    Incidentally, Mr. Ash wants $2035 for the PX1000, which I don't
    believe is competitive; American Music Center in Smyrna, GA is asking
    $1895.
    
    I very much appreciate all input on this topic... this marks my
    initial big-ticket plunge and I don't want to make some naive mistake.
    
    Has anybody encountered the Kawai controller? Are their any 76-key
    synth/sampler keyboards out there (beside aforementioned)? Help!
    
    Thanks!!! - Hoyt

FYI, I ended up with the decision not to mix controller and synth
      functionality. I found Roland's MKB-200 to be just what I needed.
       Available new from Manny's Music in NYC for $350. They ship UPS.
        5 octaves, velocity and aftertouch sensitive, transposable, etc.
         In fact, as I suspected, I have found the assignable controller
          sliders to be a useful surprise. I didn't realize that the
         FB-01 responds to volume on a per instrument basis. This means
        I can do MIDI automated mixing (two tracks at a time) without a MIDI
       automated mixer! I can't wait to use the sliders for panning things
      left and right (when I get a pannable sound source). Also, this
     controller has lot's of functions right under my fingertips (controlled
    by keyboard keys) which is fast. The keyboard feels good to me too.

DIR/TITLE=CONTROL will give a listing of related topics.

/Mitch

    
    There are so many keyboard controller notes. I'll just use this
    one because it is the most recent. My question is this:
    
    Does Korg make a legitimate 88-note keyboard controller? I don't call their
    sampled grand a legitimate controller for many reasons. 
    
    If they do, what's the model number and how much is it?
    
    Thanks 
             Mike D

    The only 88 key controllers I could find (when looking a year or so
    ago) were: 

	Yamaha KX88
	Elka (something)88
	Kurzweil MIDIboard
	Roland MKB-1000 (?)

    Of course, there are a few MIDI mod'd pianos, as well as kits out that
    allow you to MIDI your favorite keyboard for BIG $$$$. 

    Far as I know, Korg does not make a standalone controller. 

-b

    KAWAI makes a nice one but I don't remember the number (something
    like MD88000?).
    
    Bill Allen

Yeah, I've heard good things about the Kawai one. 

There is also  the one from some company I forget the name
of that is being given away this time by Keyboard in
the mega giveaway.  Some Gxxx with "adjustable hammer action"
and a disk for sysex storage.  LIst is $3xxx

CHad

    
    Just say I wanted to buy a Korg Sampled Grand (SG1 or whatever it
    is) to use as a controller. Can anyone tell me me if it has a 
    pitch/modulation joystick on it? Does the Korg Sampled Grand have
    an 88-note keyboard?
    
    Mike D 
    
    
    

RE < Note 1455.20 by MAY26::DIORIO >

	It does have pitch bend and modulation, but they are wheels, not Korg's
usual joystick arrangement.

	I believe they have both 76 and 88 key versions.

	Dan

    
    Thanks Dan. Now I can rule that out the Korg as a controller then, because I
    was really looking for it to have a joystick. (Not to mention that
    the Korg probably doesn't allow mapping of keyboard zones or 
    transmit/receive on more than 1 MIDI channel at a time.) 
    
    Do you know if the Roland controllers (MKB-whatevers) have their
    usual spring-loaded pitch bender/modulator, or do they have wheels? 
    Again, I am looking for the spring-loaded kind vs. the (boring) wheels.
    
    I don't know why manufacturers insist on using wheels in the vertical
    orientation. It makes more sense (to me) to have a pitch bender move toward
    the right (towards the higher pitched notes) when bending up, and
    towards the left (towards the lower pitched notes) when bending
    down. This would mean that the pitch "wheel" would have to be oriented
    horizontally. (Which is exactly why I prefer the Korg and Roland
    ptich bender/modulator mechanisms)
    
    Mike D

    The MKB-200 uses the spring-loaded joy stick.
    
    Edd

    re .21
    
    I think the wheels are largely historical -- i.e. Moog-based. Even the
    spring-loading on the pitch wheel was a more recent innovation. 
    
    I think it's just a matter of technique; no one method for adding
    'performance' is better than any other. The full-length ribbon on
    the CS-80 was great, for example (wherever you placed your finger
    became the 'straight' note, then you could slide up or down a full
    keyboard's worth). I once saw a brilliant semi-pro payer use the Moog
    ribbon, which others have claimed is unusable (he did 'trills' with it
    too -- impossible on a wheel). 
    
    I've also seen a mini on a sort of mic-stand arrangement that allowed
    it to rotate. The more you pushed the whole instrument clockwise, the
    more the pitch bent. 
    
    Weird.
    
    Richard.

    
    I always loved the ribbon controllers, too! Ever since I tried one
    on a Poly Moog (the fact that I even remember this dinosaur dates
    me for sure).
    
    Mike D

    The Moog "ribbon" is not like the CS-80 "ribbon" is not like the
    SynClavier "ribbon" (I've played all three)
    
    	1) The Moog ribbon is just an resistive strip.  Pressing down
    	 	at any point makes contact.  Letting go "unbends" the
    		note.  Trills are easy because you can just rock your
    		finger on/off the ribbon sideways.
    
    	2) The CS-80 ribbon bends up one octave and down to DC.  WEIRD!
    		Note that this works for almost the entire length of
    		the keyboard.  The bad news: the weenies made the top
    		of the ribbon out of this velvet-like stuff and it doesn't
    		slide under my fingers worth beans.  You can't trill
    		the CS-80 ribbon because releasing pressure reselects
    		the zero-bend point.
    
    	3) The Sink ribbon is "just another controller" and can be
    		programmed to do whatever you are smart enough to have
    		it do.
    
    My personal favorite controller is the Oberheim paddles.  I find
    them much easier to use than either ribbons, wheels or breath
    controllers. 

    Incidentally, the ribbon on my multimmog got a little knackered, so I
    rang Argent's in London (who fix up old synths). They said they'd be
    willing to exchange me a new ribbvon for about 6 million pounds.
    
    So I took it to bits, peeled the 'ribbon' off the resistive rubber
    strip, and glued a new piece of nylon ribbon in place. The new ribbon is
    now almost identical to the old, except it works like new.
    
    Now I'm off to spend the 5 million 9 hundred and 99 thousand 9 hundred
    and 99 pounds 42 pence I saved!
    
    Any suggestions?
    
    Richard.

>    Now I'm off to spend the 5 million 9 hundred and 99 thousand 9 hundred
>    and 99 pounds 42 pence I saved!

	Buy the shop that charges 6 million for repairs.

	Dan

                                                                 
    >     Buy the shop that charges 6 million for repairs.        
    >                                                             
    >     Dan                                                     
    
    
    -- but I'm 48p short.
    
    And anyway, they have two Moog ribbons in stock, so I'm 6 million
    pounds ans 48 p short.
    
    Such is life.
    
    Richard.