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Conference napalm::commusic_v1

Title:* * Computer Music, MIDI, and Related Topics * *
Notice:Conference has been write-locked. Use new version.
Moderator:DYPSS1::SCHAFER
Created:Thu Feb 20 1986
Last Modified:Mon Aug 29 1994
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:2852
Total number of notes:33157

1388.0. "Silent MIDI reverb 'patch' changes? " by SALSA::MOELLER (I LIKE 'point-n-grunt' interfaces!) Mon May 16 1988 21:03

    One of the ways to make a sampled piano realer sounding is to map
    the damper pedal events to patch changes on a MIDI-controlled
    digital reverb.. pedal up, 'small' reverb setting, pedal down, 
    'large' reverb setting.
    
    Well, I figured out a semi-automated method of inserting the
    appropriate patch changes in a track right where #64 on or off
    hits. Performer worked pretty well here.
    
    HOWEVER ! .. I found my Alesis MIDIverb would indeed respond to
    the changes, but when I ran the piano signal thru it, there was
    an audible SNAP when the algorithm changed from large room to small
    room. 
    
    Are there any MIDI-controlled reverbs out there that move smoothly
    from one reverb setting to another, with no audible glitching ?
    
    karl
T.RTitleUserPersonal
Name		DateLines
1388.1Not with a program changeDFLAT::DICKSONNetwork Design toolsMon May 16 1988 21:587
At least the DSP128 lets you modify *some* parameters on the fly, without
glitches.  I expect that a complete program change would cause a glitch,
though.  On a major change these things have to flush their delay lines,
reset sample points, and so on, and some of these things can't be done
smoothly.  The DSP128's adjustments are restricted to those aspects of the
effect that are adjustable without noise.
1388.2MTBLUE::BOTTOM_DAVIDStratocaster masterTue May 17 1988 07:473
    Not the midiverb II that's for sure...
    
    dave
1388.3MIZZOU::SHERMANBaron of GraymatterTue May 17 1988 09:547
    Well, I can sometimes hear a glitch with the MV2 between changes,
    but it's usually very slight, hardly noticeable.  The only wish
    I would have would be that old sounds would preserve the old patch
    and new start with the new patch.  Then again, I could get around
    this by using two MV2's and do some signal routing ...
    
    Steve
1388.4Not My MIDIVERB II.SUBSYS::GLORIOSOTue May 17 1988 10:082
    I've never heard a glitch on my MIDIVERB II during MIDI patch
    controlled mixdown....     If it's there it's not noticable.
1388.5{yaaaawn}JAWS::COTEBohm & Jacopini never led Cub Scouts...Tue May 17 1988 10:169
    I don't have any clix or pops when changing patches on MV2 but...
    
    The patch is always 'cleared' for a short time during the change
    sequence.... that is there is a short time where there is no effect
    at all...
    
    'zat make sense??
    
    Edd the exhausted...
1388.6RANGLY::BOTTOM_DAVIDStratocaster masterTue May 17 1988 10:395
    Well not actually a click but a loss of effect for some time, it's
    still noticable...and therefore unusable as a real time switching
    effect...still a great device though...
    
    db2
1388.7Not so good for pedal actions, but...HPSRAD::NORCROSSTue May 17 1988 10:5911
My MIDIVerb II glitches if a patch change command arrives while the effect is
still sounding from the previous note, or if it arrives too late to change in
time for the following note. 

I have succeeded in placing the command at exactly the right time between the
notes where I want the change to take place so as to avoid glitching. 

Master Tracks Pro makes this relatively easy with a pencil and eraser approach
to placing patch change commands. 

/Mitch
1388.8CANYON::MOELLERHe points. He grunts. He's hi-tech.Tue May 17 1988 13:2914
    I did a few more experiments last night. There is no way to make
    the MIDIverb switch from a long program to a short while notes are
    sustaining, without a snap.. even between settings that are fairly
    close in duration.
    
    An approach that has some promise is to use two units! My MIDIfex
    has several perfectly usable reverb settings.. my initial experiment
    shows that I can switch the MIDIverb off (patch 00) and the MIDIfex
    on (patch 49) and vice versa.. keep you posted.
    
    Thanks for the feedback on the MVII, I was ready to go shopping!
    That was close!
    
    MIDIholic in AZ
1388.9Switching...CTHULU::YERAZUNISWe don't need that part.Tue May 17 1988 18:383
    True- you could also vary between two effects by using positive
    gain on one and negative gain on the other...
1388.10spx quietPLDVAX::JANZENTom LMO2/O23 296-5421Tue May 17 1988 19:106
    The spx90 mutes during a patch change, that is, moving from one
    memory slot to another. I don't know about modifying a current
    slot over MIDI; it makes no noise changing a patch from the panel.
    Except if you are zooming through some numbers on some parameters
    such as delay or pitch it may flutter.
    Tom
1388.11Perhaps you can duck one reverb under the otherDREGS::BLICKSTEINThe height of MIDIocrityWed May 18 1988 09:4021
    Karl,
    
    Perhaps you can use two reverbs and duck one under the other
    
    If you can find a reverb that doesn't glitch if the algorithm changes,
    what I might suggest is that you use two reverbs in the following way:
    
    Reverb #1 is constantly on "small" reverb
    
    Reverb #2 alternates between a "large" reverb with high output, and
    THE SAME setting with low (as close to 0 as possible) output.  (Or
    perhaps you can even set BYPASS via MIDI on some models).
    
    Then you use a compressor to duck the small reverb under the large
    reverb.  Most compressors allow you to do this.
    
    Note that you don't even need two reverb units to do this on tape.
    You just record one reverb track, then use it to both mix with and duck
    the other track.
    
    	db