Conference napalm::commusic_v1

    I have an AMIGA that I got partly to use with synthesizers.  I have
    bought quite a bit of the existing MIDI software, including Mimetics'
    sequencer, etc. and a Sound Questor CZ patch editor/librarian. 
    I have never been totally happy with any of this software.     
    It's been unreliable and in the case of Mimetics' sequencer, confusing
    to use.  
    
    Recently, Dr. T released an AMIGA sequencer that sounds promising.
    However, just before Dr. T did that, I obtained a MAC+ and quite
    a bit of MIDI software.   I've been totally happy with the MAC+
    for MIDI applications.  I still like the AMIGA for many reasons
    and spend a lot of time with it -- however, not for MIDI applications.
                                      

    re: .1
    	What software are you using for the mac+?
    	can that software be used on a mac512 (older model)
    	(the reason I ask is because I have seen many original
    	mac 512 units for sale for under 600$ around here.)
    

    PERFORMER is a stunner for the Mac 512K.. just make certain they
    know you have the original 512K.. the very latest version won't
    run on it, but they'll happily sell you the version that will
    
    karl

I wondered what kind of response I would get to this note, and thanks for
your replies. They answered my basic question very nicely. No good MIDI
software available for the AMIGA. Just as I had hoped. Now let us proceed
on to the next stage in our MIDI madness quest for the ultimate computer
music video hypermedia workstation. 

How about designing our ultimate MIDI workstation, based upon an AMIGA 500,
also compatible with the AMIGA 2000. You travel to New Hampshire, and buy
a complete AMIGA 500 with the following equipment...

A500, includes A2000 keyboard (attached) and internal 3�" floppy drive 2DD
1084 color monitor
1 meg memory expansion
external 3�" floppy drive 2DD

total price: $1149  no sales tax!

This gives you all of the power of the AMIGA family, with high-res color
graphics, great sound, open bus architecture, excellent documentation
available. Lots of addons to allow the A500 to use the A2000 boards to make
it IBM PC compatible, gen-lock interface, SMPTE, MIDI, accelerator to add
faster 68020 CPUs and 68881 FPP, 20mb hard disk for $799, 40mb hard disk for
$999.

You take all of this wonderful hardware home and set it up. Now what? For
much less than the price of a Roland MC500 Mark II, you have a complete home
computer capable of doing almost anything within reason. Ah ha! No decent
software available for MIDI applications.

Now is your chance to help design the ultimate MIDI workstation. All those
gripes about the HR16 sequencer, the weak spots and inconsistencies in the
MC500; the great but expensive features of the MAC sequencers, the pros and
cons of the ATARI ST stuff, can now be sorted out and corrected on an
emerging piece of wonderful hardware that needs some great software for a
great low price.

As we all know, the human interface is crucial. Do you prefer soft keys,
mouse, recorder front panel, menus? What about on-line help, command line
assistance, well written manuals, free upgrades, modular feature addons,
microscope MIDI message editing, music scoring, sync-to-tape, pattern
edit mode for drums, SMPTE, gen-lock, etc. etc.? What kind of MIDI interface
hardware is desirable? How many ports of each type? Price range?

Please share your thoughts and ideas on what this ultimate MIDI workstation
would consist of.

thanks,

dave

    Ii think to say that there is "no good MIDI software available for the
    Amiga" is a misrepresentation.
    
    I have been following the MIDI PC area for awhile and my impression is
    as follows:
    
    Unquestionably, the Mac and the Atari ST are the clear "established and
    accepted" workhorses for music applications.  You can get whatever
    software you need for either of those machines.
    
    The Amiga got off to a very slow start in the MIDI area.  
    Probably because of the Atari ST's builtin MIDI port, the Atari quickly
    eclipsed the Amiga.   However, in recent months many of the major
    music software suppliers have announced their intention to support the
    Amiga.  Many of these products have already hit the street.
    
    	(It's interesting to note, that where I live, the Atari seems
        to be loosing ground (distributors) whereas the Amiga seems
    	to be gaining quite rapidly.  I can not tell you if this is
     	the national picture.  Interpret this only as there is at least
        one unreliable indication that while Atari won the MIDI
    	battle, it is losing the general PC war.)
    
    Let's talk about TODAY.  Today, there's a modest smattering of music
    software available for the Amiga, but I would say that it has yet to
    hit that point where you declared that is has become "established and
    accepted" as a music workhorse.  If the software houses make good on
    their stated intentions, by the end of the year, there really shouldn't
    be much to differentiate the Amiga from MAC and the ST other than
    perhaps "more than adequate selection of software" vs. "much more than 
    adequate selection of muisic software".
    
    	db

    A very important feature that I have yet to see is negative time
    values in sequences. That is, you have a sequence where the first
    note is -24, and you queue it at 96, the first note sounds at 72.
    In track loop mode, for example, you could record five measures
    and play back four, with one and five superimposed on each other.
    
    This feature would be extremely valuable, because rhythm and measures
    very rarely line up.
    
    						John.

    Does time shifting count?
    
    Steve

    re .2:
    
    I have the Passport Master Tracks Pro sequencer, patch editors from
    Opcode, and Jam Factory and Upbeat from Intelligent Music.  I think
    all this would run in a Mac512K, but a well-informed dealer, such
    as Leigh's Computers, in New York, could tell you for sure. 
    
    re .5:
    
    For the two years that I've had the Amiga, I've heard promises of MIDI
    software soon.   I hope some decent Amiga MIDI software appears;
    so far, I don't think it has.
   
    -- Joe Meyers  

    As was mentioned, Dr. T's Keyboard Controlled Sequencer has been
    ported to the Amiga.  This is more sequencer than most of us will
    ever need.  It does just about everything.  Check it out before you 
    give up on the Amiga.
    
    Rodney M.

    What I meant was, and perhaps this is a better way of phrasing it,
    was this:
    
    You string sequences into songs, right? One sequence ends and another
    begins. What I wanted, more or less, was the ability to define a
    beginning and an end point in the sequence for the purposes of
    stringing them together into songs, and during loop recording 
    ( which in effect is the sequence stringed to itself ). KCS lets
    you do something like that, but it involves lots of complicated
    numbers and editing operations.
    
    I'll tell ya what, I'll find the easiest way of doing it with KCS
    and post it here. One way just popped into my head, but it involves
    recursion, which KCS may or may not like. I'm starting to think
    track mode on KCS is a throw away.
    
    						John.

    I tried this out with KCS. KCS has an internal type of event called
    " Start Sequence " in the open mode. You can layer sequences on
    top of each other by specifying them with "ST" events. Unfortunately,
    you can't layer a sequence with itself. A sequence can only have
    one copy of itself playing at any given time. This sort of defeats
    what I was suggesting, that the sequencer be capable of layering
    the first and last measure of a sequence on top of itself. The
    previous note describes the kind of feature I'd like to see. The
    way I have to do this with KCS is to create a copy of the sequence
    in question, and add the appropriate delays to each one, then add
    a start event in open mode to start the premeasure from within the
    previous sequence. If you want to stay in track mode, you'll need
    to cut and paste the last measure to the beginning of the delayed
    sequence.
    
    Then, when you go to string the sequences into songs, you'll need
    to count the number of measures into the song each one begins 
    ( times 96 clocks/measure ), subtract the premeasure, and create
    a start event, instead of just using song mode. The other alternative
    is to have a seperate sequence that includes the premeasure for
    each type of sequence it preceeds.
    
    Now, I'm not saying this would be the easiest feature to impliment,
    and at some level, the sequencer would have to translate it to
    something similar to what KCS does. I think sequence start and end
    points anywhere within the sequence may be one of the quantum leaps
    in sequencer user friendliness.
    
    							John.

    
    	I have an Amiga with Soundscape.  While I have to agree that
    the documentation *stinks*, it appears to be a very powerful
    sequencer/editor.  I admit that it rerquires many, many hours of
    experimenting to understand it but it seems to fit my needs (minor
    as they are!)  Mostly I use it edit out clunkers in tracks I lay
    down for my Techics PR80.  A much higher quality machine than my
    fingers deserve.  At any rate, I can set down a track on the
    PR80 and fine tune it on the Amiga, using Soundscape, then transfer
    it back to the disk on the PR80.
    
    	I have a friend who's just finished putting our his third album
    and is working on his fourth.  He is the one who turned me onto
    Soundscape.  He uses it exclusively for his synths (7 at last count)
    and swears by it.  He spent many hours in the beginning talking
    to the programmers and is now a beta test site for their newer
    developments.  I'd encourage you to listen to a copy of any of his
    albums.  His name is Jim Seeley (ex-DEC employee).  New Age jazz
    
    re: .6
    	I have set-up negative time sequences (by mistake so far)
    using Soundscape, so I know it is possible.  I couldn't think
    of anything to do with it so I corrected it, however, I will mess
    around with it and see if I can do what you're talking about.
    Bear in mind that I am a novice at all of this so I may not get
    the effect you are looking for.

    
    For those interested the June issue of AMIGA WORLD lists available
    MIDI  HW. and software for the Amiga. Brief summaries of the
    available software are included. ( Dr. T's , Texture, Soundscape,
    etc.)
    
     Re. .12 - the article also raved about soundscape if you can figure
    out how to use it (poor Documentation)
    
    
     There is also a an article
    on setting up and using an Amiga/MPU-401/soundscape sampler/and
    CZ101 with Texture.                   
    
     Brien  (who is seriously considering the Amiga )
    

For about a month, I have been using Deluxe Music Construction Set (DMCS) 
and Synthia on a Commodore Amiga 500 with one drive.

This is the first time I have used computer music software tools. (The cheap
synthesis programs I've written in assembler for the TRS80 and PDP11 weren't 
tools.)

DMCS works fairly well.  It writes a musical score on the screen
and also can display a keyboard on the bottom of the screen and a musical
font window on the left.  The 3 windows are movable and sizable, per
Amiga Intuition.  The score's note heads and the piano keys can turn
red following the music as it plays, but this can be disabled.
It then can play a maximum of 4 voices out the Amiga sound device
(two channels; however, DMCS unpredictably assigns the channels note to note,
so the two channels should be mixed to stereo.)

I studied engraving standard music style in college (on my own from the
book by Ross from Hansen publications).  The DMCS score is not engraving 
standard, but I
don't mind.  It has sizable measures and can have a variety of a number
of staffs.  I can't be certain it's 1 to 16, but I think so.
It can paginate or move from left to right.  

I have no printer and can't judge DMCSs printing capability.

Time signature, tempo, instrument, key and perhaps other things
can change per bar.  More than 4 instruments can be in memory for
when you change instruments, but without MIDI (it reads and writes
a MIDI port option) it plays only 4 voices at once.  If you score
more than 4 voices at one instant, it picks four to play.
It can play a section you mark, rather than the whole score.

I have trouble getting the exact tempo I want.  I use the mouse to
slide a little sliding icon along a gas gauge for tempo, and get all
kinds of non-standard (OK fine) M.M. markings, usually just 1/minute
off from what I want.  Maybe I'll master this, but I think that's it.
Gee, for film/TV applications, precise tempi are needed.  Oh well.

It can't do trills.  I had to enter each note one at a time, and
use copy/paste to build a trill.  It can't do totally arbitrary
durations, just standard values, dotteds, and triplets.
It can't use proportional notation; it must have a time signature
(at least I think so, maybe a MIDI input device would allow such a mode).
It must have a tempo; the default is 92.  The default time signature
is 4/4 (!).  The default key is C (!!).  Key signature is per staff.
Time signature is for all staffs.

Words can be entered anywhere.  I think the font is changeable but I'm
not into that font stuff.

Sometimes it's inconvenient.  It always uses sharps if you
enter notes by clicking the mouse on the keyboard.  The shortest
way to get flats on a single note is to click the flat icon, click
the notehead (duration) icon, and click the place on the staff
you want the note at.  Or, you can play in naturals, and later
click the flat icon over the note.  If the music is crowded,
the sharp for a note may end up on top of the previous note, but you
can resize the measure to correct this.

It can beam any contiguous notes on a staff.  It doesn't beam across
a rest as some of my scores do.  Maybe it beams on two staffs, I'm not sure.
It makes slurs across anything you select, even rests, but sometimes the
slurs are bent a little far out.  The ties are OK, but I don't know how to
have ties oppose each other on a chord, as they should.
The stems are always 3.5 spaces long for single-voice staffs, even if the
note is way off the staff on a leger line.  You can have 2 voices on a staff.
I'm pretty fast at it, until I get a flat.

The colors, beige, black, white? and red for emphasis work ok for me.
The unprotected version (for $20 more) has different colors.
You can move windows in front and in back easily on the Amiga, but I usually
close windows that I don't need.  Whenever you select an optional
or special operation (like setting tempo) you get a window.
It can't do fractional tempos, like 4.5/4, but it do 1-99 (I think)
beats and any standard beat size (1,2,4,8,16...)

I am in the phase in which I am making lots of mistakes selecting
the wrong things because I am trying to go faster than I think, and
havn't learned.  For example, to select a group of notes you should
put the cursor out away from the staff to begin the selecting rectangle;
if you hit the mouse button to close to a note head, it will select a note
head.  If you select a note head with a depressed moise button, you can
move it up and down the staff (in a scale the program guesses you are
using currently, not necessarily the key signature), or horizontally
in the measure to reposition it.  You can hear the sound if you move
a note head up and down.  You can hear a sound if you select notes on the
keyboard.  You can play the piece any time during the process.

It has easy delete, copy, and paste commands.  You can also "select all"
if you want to change the whole piece in some way.

I have no midi instruments.  I am playing out the standard Amiga
sound port, a couple or so DACs.  It sounds OK, but is sometimes
hummy.  Flute duets, which I've been entering, are very exposed,
and the flute pitch so high, that intermittent humminess isn't hidden.
The humminess isn't flakey intermittent; I think it depends on the
pitch and/or wavetable.

DMCS can store a score or a SMUS (IFF?) file of the piece, or both
of course.  It can get scores and instruments from other dedicated
data disks, as I use it.  I verified that DMCS can use instruments 
created with Synthia.

DMCS is copy-protected.  You can make a copy, but when you use the
backup, upon entering DMCS, it prompts you to put the master in a drive
to check a registration number, so you must keep the master around.
This prevents implementing the physical security measure of
keeping the distribution kit in a separate place.  I sent $20 to
the company (the original was ca. $70 at Software Shop) to get an
unprotected backup.

SYNTHIA:
The DMCS instruments subdirectory (AmigaDos has subdirectories similar
to VMS) has only a few essentials.  So I bought Synthia to suplement it.
Synthia can built instruments for DMCS (and other programs) a number
of ways, not including FM or Phase Distortion.  Software Shop had
Synthia for ca. $70.  Synthia is also copy-protected, but offers no
go-around.  It makes a heck of a bottle-popping sound.
Synthia has a few different ways of building sounds: additive, subtractive,
percussion, string model, interpolation.  All the techniques offer
"effects" such as reverb, amplitude modulation, pitch modulation,
and others.
Subtractive is a subset of additive; it lacks Additive's envelopes for 
individual harmonics.
The model for Synthia is a little subtle and interlocked, and I can't
remember the right names for things, so I don't want to confuse you.
But here goes.  
Under additive synthesis, you may specify 16 harmonics either by
envelope.  The envelopes can be mouse-drawn or calculated from 8
sliders that represent harmonics of the envelope shape, or polynomial
factors(powers?) or the sliders represent the shape of the envelope to
be interpolated with spline or in a linear way.  whew!  Don't expect to
build long gentle envelopes that fade in and fade out slowly.  If you
can do it, I don't know how.  References to envelopes here are to things
that come and go pretty fast in the mid range, about .5 second.  
Envelope lengths seem inversely proportional to pitch.  However, notes
can repeat indefinetly if you want.  IFF sound definition permits repeating
any part, such as the tail of the sound until the score stops the sound.
Under additive synthesis you may define sounds with sliders that define
the waveform, i.e., are harmonics or polynomials or linear trace for
8 harmonics of the waveform.  
The string model permits building a sound based on a plucked (not
bowed) string.  It distinguishes between nylon and steel.  It's good
for guitars and basses.  Maybe I'll try to make a harpsichord on it.
I think a book example made a strung waterglass with it.
The percussion model is pretty thorough, modelling the initial
excitation wave, feedback, resonance.  It also has alternate synthesis
techniques within the percussion window for non-harmonic sounds.
It can use a noise source with this model to make a muted cymbal, for
example.  I need more experience with it.  A non-linear vibrator model
is included.
The Synthia Extras disk includes an SMUS file player and some dumb
pieces to play with it.

I need more experience with both programs, but especially Synthia, which
is very deep.  There is some disk-swapping with only one disk, but not
during just working on a score or a sound.
Tom

    the current Amiga World magazine reviews tons of Amiga music software
    of all types.  and has a MIDI article abot the amiga.
    Tom

    Last night I made Amiga BASIC play about 80 notes/second in a scale
    and arpeggio sequence.  Higher rates on one channel started getting
    cruddy in a way I didn't analyze, noisy/clicky/cruddy.
    Deluxe Music Construction set can go to 48 notes/second (triplet
    32nd notes at quarter=240).
    Tom

    Those measurements were not MIDI, but out the sound port of the
    Amiga, on one of the 4 channels.  I don't know what happens
    if you try to send out the data on all 4 channels at once,
    if the I/O system can keep up.
    Tom

    I found a piece that's easier to play with Amiga BASIC than on any
    MIDI instrument without overdubbing.
    Steve Reich's work "Piano Phase" has two lines.  It's for two
    pianos.Both pianists play the same 12-note phrase (12 sixteenth
    notes at about dotted quarter = MM60.)
    One pianist plays the phrase over and over and over for usually
    at least 12 minutes.  So does the other pianist.
    One pianist plays at say MM60.  The other plays the phrase at MM59.7
    
    Simultaneously.
    
    Scoring programs tied to measures can't do it unless they have very
    fine divisions available and you change the 16th note to a quarter
    to get the divisions and write it all out (about 200 measures?
     
    In Amiga BASIC out the sound device, the score is about 30 lines.
    (I have other lines, about 80, to build waves out of weighted harmonics
    and calculate the frequencies of the tempered scale.  I could easily
    do just intonation , harry partch's scale, you name it).
    
    Tom

    RE: .18
    
    Now that you've heard it, does it sound like a potential chart topper?
    
    Steph

    >< Note 1387.19 by PANGLS::BAILEY >
>                                -< How silly. >-
>
>    RE: .18
>    
>    Now that you've heard it, does it sound like a potential chart topper?
>    
>    Steph

    I thought that I had 
    long ago quit trying to educate people interested only in music
    for
    the sake of making money ("chart stopper"s), but I will answer your
    reply, Stephanie.  I will only say that
    I have heard Piano Phase many times, each of the times I managed
    to
    record it each time I upgraded my equipment, because I like the
    piece and because it helps me learn new equipment to play an old
    piece with which I'm familiar. 
    Steve Reich  (ch="sh") is one of the most important composers in
    America today.  His exploration of time dilation and repetition
    are FAR more abstract and varied and surprising that those of
    prettier and more euphonious persuasion (e.g., a guy with the initials
    Philip Glass, not to mention names).  Piano Phase is an important  
    and pleasing
    representative of Reich's output
                Piano phase (is it too late to stop the EVE project
    team? ;-) ) is a pleasant and surprising work.  It is subtle, and
    I guarantee that you have no idea how it sounds until you hear it,
    unless you fail to give it full attention, which it deserves.
    If you trained your ears on pop and rock, you are incapable of listening
    to Piano Phase, so don't bother.    
    Other works by Reich are Tehillim, clapping music, (did he write
    Vermont Counterpoint for flute & taped flutes?), the magnum opus
    Drumming, what I consider his best: "Six Pianos", a speech sound
    work called something"-Out"(can't remember, I don't have the record,
    the last time I heard it was on my college radio show) ,
    and many others, in short, a variety of means, a variety of forms,
    a variety of ideas not heard from the pretty minimalists.
    But this is not music for commerce ("the charts.")  This is
    music for the love of it.
    Tom
    Oh, heck , why do I bother. 

>    did he write
>    Vermont Counterpoint for flute & taped flutes?

Yes, I believe he did. New York Counterpoint as well.

>    something"-Out", can't remember 

Come-Out.

My favorite is Desert Music.

/Mitch

RE: .20

    Tom - try doing

	Notes> SET PROFILE/EDITOR=(EDT)		or
	Notes> SET PROFILE/EDITOR=(EDT,CALL)

    The former will use EVE in EDT lookalike mode.  The latter will
    actually use callable EDT, complete with your own EDTINI file. 

    Or you could always type HELP SET PROFILE.

-b

    re: .20
    
    The come out thing was for a black youth (male) who was accused
    of murdering whites.  There was a big public outcry that he was
    framed, and to raise money for his defense, Reich was commissioned
    to record something.  He used "...come out n show em..." from a
    taped interview with the accused, and looped the wazoo out of it.
    Kinda what you could do now with a sampler really easy.
    
    ...and Stephen probably doesn't enjoy being called Stephanie..;^)
    
    Ashley (thank God for androgynous names)

   I just recieved a flyer on something called HMSL. It may be
something that can be used to..

	. write your own midi software
	. use instead of basic for things that standard packages won't do
	. generating "tunes" based on star patterns etc.

   To be perfectly honest I read the flyer and I don't have the slightest
idea what they're talking about. However if you do and are interested
i'll forward a copy of the flyer to anyone who wants it.


Brief summary...


	HMSL - Hierarchal music specification language

	A music composistion and performance programming language
which offers  the user an environment for advanced experimentation in
composistion,cognition, perception, performance and electronic music.

 HMSL is an object oriented set of extensions to the Forth language
 (requires J-FORTH for the AMIGA or MAC). fully extensible and customizable
  - source code provided.

 Includes tool/utilities for  algorithmic composition and musical A/I,
 designing real-time intelligent instruments, generating heirarchies of
 programmable music objects, controlling and responding to midi instruments,
 treating musical parameters as abstract numeric data, object oriented
 programming environment (ODE), Midi toolbox and midi parser. On the amiga
 it can control internal voices as well.

 they go on to describe other features ... 1/F noise generator,
 psuedo random noise generator,a polymorphous executive ... etc etc.

 Like I said, they lost me after the first couple of sentences but if
 you think it might be of value to you I'll send you what I have.
 Alternatively you can call them (delta research/frog peak music)
 at (415) 485-6867. 

 HMSL was written at Mills college by the developers of JFORTH.

 brien                                                         

    What in hell is a "polymorphous executive"???
    
    Some sorta marketeer???
    
    Edd
    

>polymorpous executive

    A former amphibian who rapidly and progressively evolved into:

	a) a humanoid being, 
	b) a computer geek,    
	c) your boss

    So much for the theory of evolution.  Entropy rules.

Sarcastically yours,

8-}

    
    
    the vest doesn't match the suit... 
    
    
     you should see the stuff I left out..
    

    Probably you can make the monitor commands anything you want,
    like assigning synonyms to vms commands.
    otm

    I got the last 4 fred fish disks.  One of them has a DX7 
    library thing reshuffler or something to run on the amiga.
    I could help you get it from me, or you can order it.
    The disks were roughly 147-150.
    It's public domain software.
    Tom

    Tom - if there are any DX patches on the disks, could you please put
    them online somewhere so I can get at them?  I'd like to add them to
    the library I have going down here. 

    Thanks.

-b

    there are no patches on the disk.
    It is called dx sorter and is to be used witha previously written
    librarian.
    Tom

    Ok - just thought I'd ask.  8-)

-b

    I made an Amiga BASIC example for MIDI work; it's 3 lines long.
    Let me know if you're interested.
    I've already made a longer version with symbol definitions.
    The short example just plays a note.
    Tom

I'm interested, Tom.  I have APL 68K and I'd like to use the BASIC
code as an example of what values to poke where in order to write
an APL function to do the same thing.  This is all so I can code
output routines for the stuff in "Cybernetic Music", all of which
is in APL.  "Cybernetic Music" is a pretty good book as far as it
goes for any CAC devotees.  I seem to remember it being mentioned
in a previous note somewhere in the dim past.

regards,
-jim

    Well OK but there zillions of C examples on public domain C midi
    disk from Fred Fish.
    Tom

'Thomas E. Janzen 4-16-89 MIDI access program
'Commodore Amiga 500 ECE MIDI interface 
NOTEOFF%=&H80 'add channel, followed by key 15-113 and volume 0-127
NOTEON% =&H90 'add channel, followed by key 15-113 and volume 0-127
MIDC%=60
MF=64
MKS20=1
OPEN "com1:300,n,8,1" AS #1
POKEW 14676018&,114&
PRINT #1,CHR$(NOTEON%+MKS20);CHR$(MIDC%);CHR$(MF);
PRINT #1,CHR$(NOTEOFF%+MKS20);CHR$(MIDC%);CHR$(MF);
CLOSE #1

	Ok, where'd this go?

	What are, will someone please post, the MIDI sequencers available for
the Amiga and how do they compare to MasterTracks Pro (please no emotional
outbreaks, i.e. "There's NO other sequencer, etc.").  Will Pro come out for
the Amiga?  Please, I need info.

thx,

--mikie--

 Although this is an old note it seems like the best place for a review
 of the Amiga Bars and Pipes Sequencer by The Blue Ribbon Bakery. 
 B & P is $299 list and $170 mail order.

 First off I'll state my background. I have had an Amiga for 2.5 years
 and a VFX synth and Bars and Pipes for 2 months. I have not used other 
 full-fledged sequencers except a demo version of Music-X which I used 
 with the Amiga's four internal voices. I have a lot of interest and a 
 fair amount of training in music although I definitely lean toward 
 improvisation and playing by ear rather than reading sheet music. I have
 read this conference for a year or so but might not have all my terminology
 down.


 I have read four or five reviews of Bars & Pipes in computer and musician
 mags and found a review that probably sums it up pretty well. If you
 want to read a review that says more of what I'll say here, read the
 latest Computer Shopper, that fat phone-book like magazine that people
 buy to look for mail order chips etc. If you are a fast reader, you might
 be able to scan it at the newstand...

 According to the reviews, B & P has similar graphic editing features
 as the other graphic-based sequencers so I'll just move on.

 What I like about the sequencer:  It lets me try out lots of crazy things
 easily. I can record a simple track and fool around with it
 while it plays back in real time. B & P uses a modular pipeline approach
 that allows modification before and after the recorded track. For example,
 I can add a quantize object module (tool) to the pipeline such that 
 it alters the output from the playing track. I can adjust the quantization 
 parameters while the track plays without changing the recorded sequence. After 
 I make the adjustment, I can then re-route the quantized output to a new track
 without destroying the original. 

 The quantize example is a simple one. I can also add a counterpoint tool,
 an accompaniment tool (scales, keys, chords, and rhythms defined), a triad tool 
 (add 3rd and 5th for example), delay, etc. If I like the sound, I can just set
 up the new route to record it; if I don't like it, I just take away the tool.

 I can also use most of these tools on small sections of the sequence in the
 graphic editor. 

 Although I haven't used it yet, I think I'll like the ABA song structure 
 feature. This lets me set up sections that are repeated. If I then decide
 to change one section, B & P will propagate the change to the like sections.

 I also like the loop mode punch in feature. I can set up a section of a track
 to play in a loop eight times allowing eight different punch ins. I can then
 choose the version I like best to insert into the sequence. 

 It is very easy to change midi channels, so I can try different patches while
 the sequence plays. 

 The program multitasks fine, so I can format a disk or clean up a directory
 while it is running. Most of the operations can be controlled by mouse or
 keyboard.

 The disk is not copy protected and the Manual is excellent so far. It has
 a full index and glossary.

 What I don't like about B & P:

 I happen to like everything about it, but I haven't compared it to others,
 so I'll tell you what the other reviewers say.  

 There is limited event list editing. If you are used to that kind of editing,
 you may miss it with B & P. I've never really used that kind of sequencer 
 (DR T's is the reputed favorite I hear) and don't feel the need. I do 
 understand how that might make a switch to B & P difficult. B & P does offer
 a magnifying glass option where you place the glass over the graphic 
 representation of a note to see and edit event information. 

 FWIW, the reviewer in the Computer Shopper says DR Ts and this together 
 make the perfect set up if you like that event list control. You can 
 exchange standard MIDI files between them. Others have also recommended 
 Music-X which combines graphic editing and event list editing very nicely. 

 From all of the reviews I think this is the main point. Reading between 
 the lines, I think those who have done heavy event list editing loved
 the creative side of B & P, but couldn't give up the event list focus.
 Those who were already used to graphic based sequencers could offer much
 fuller support for the package.

 B & P is suppposed to be a RAM hog. I haven't had much problem with a
 one meg Amiga (the minimum configuration by my standards) but I do
 boot with a minimal Workbench to use the sequencer. I have not yet created
 any long and complex sequences though.  I suspect a 3 meg system, not at 
 all unusual for someone using Amiga applications, will be fine for most
 everyone. B & P has warned me about low memory. One solution is to turn off 
 the undo feature. You can also switch to the Amiga Workbench and close up 
 other windows/processes at that point. For what this sequencer does, I don't
 think it is a hog at all. Compared to non-graphics editors - sure.

 To some degree this sequencer makes you think in terms of tracks. I 
 understand that some sequencers allow easier manipulation of small sections. 
 The ABA song structure feature is designed to allow this, but I guess it is
 less well resolved than the methods of other sequencers.

 Most of the reviewers comment on the colorful, even playful, appearence of
 the B & P screens because it may seem less "professional" than other
 sequencers. I understand the point but see the interface as easy to look
 at and use. Performance and ease of use is more important than first 
 impressions. People thought the MAC was too toy-like at first too.

 The graphic editor offers, as an option, a hybrid staff/piano-roll display 
 which most reviewers wish would go all the way to real notation. I am not 
 bothered by it, but hope it stays on the wish list for a future update.


 Summary:
 
 Bars and Pipes is a full features graphics-based sequencer that 
 allows lots of what-if-I-try-this creative manipulation of sequences.
 It provides only limited event-editing, but imports/exports standard MIDI
 files. Nice manual, no copy protection, reviewers all commend The Blue Ribbon
 Bakery ( what a name ;-}) for bug fixing and support. Object orientation 
 allows easy expansion. Is it state of the art?  Could be...

 Tidbits:
 There is a demo version (no save and limited docs a few bugs) available in 
 the Amiga archives. See the BOMBE::AMIGA conference for details.

 If you are in Mass, The Memory Location in Wellsley, Mass had a used
 copy for $100 last week. An excellent deal if it has a registration
 card and pretty good otherwise. 

 So there you have it. 
 
 Dave

I have written Amiga patch loader software for the Yamaha TX81Z,
the Yamaha SPX90-II and the Roland SRV2000.
Unfortunately, I do not have all the equipment for testing the software.
I have been testing it by inspecting the output in hexadecimal.
If you are interested in testing some of this software a little for gross
bugs, let me know and we arrange to get it to you, either over modem
or disk.  (I can xfer binary again).

The programs run from the Command line interface with parameters.
The programs read a text file of parameters values and send it out as a sysex
to the MIDI equipment.  The spx and srv programs can also save the sysex
in binary in a file.  A test is needed to see if this binary file can be
loaded by patch librarians.  Are patch librarians always specific to
an instrument?  If there were, it wouldn't matter. Do sequencers ever load
sysex info for you?  You could check if these binary files can be handled
that way.

The srv and spx programs load right into a memory slot.  The tx program
loads into the voice edit buffer.  The txp program loads into the edit buffer
for performance.

CLI>SPX CarnegieHall.SPX 90 2 CarnegieHall.dmp
CLI>TX SineTone.TX 3
CLI>TXP rockband.TXP 3
CLI>SRV shower.srv 31 4 shower.dmp
etc.
Tom
well actually the srv program won't be complete until 2nite.

Hi Tom,

I can't help with the TX81Z, SPX90-II, or the SRV2000, but I'd like to talk 
you into writing patch loader software for the Ensoniq VFX. :^) 
I could provide the sysex documentation and test your work for that...

Dave 

I have moved some of the programs I've written into MIDILIB.
I have loaded the Amiga automatic music program AlgoRhythms 1.01 into
MIDILIB deposit, as well as text-to-sysex patch loaders for the TX (voice and
performance), the SPX90-II, and the SRV2000.  These program read a text file
that can be prepared in a text editor, and load them into the instrument
at any midi channel.  The TX81Z loader loads the sysex into the edit buffer.
The other programs load into the program number directly.  Let me know if
the srv program works, it has never been run on an srv2000.  They are in
lharc .lzh format archives.
Tom

    Many thanks to Tom Janzen for sharing his MIDI programs with the rest
    of us.  I've placed his contributions in:
    
    MIDI::A$:[MIDILIB.TOOLS.AMIGA...]*.*
    
    Any contributions by others would be greatly appreciated as well.
    
    -Dan (MIDIlibrarian)

 Lotsa questions today:

 Has anyone played with the MIDISTUFF package that went to COMP.SOURCES.AMIGA
 and the AMIGA_SOURCES conference the middle of October `90? It has
 a simple sysex dump program that has a 50000 byte buffer limit. I got it to
 work fine with single VFX programs, but a full VFX bank dump is 64000 bytes
 and doesn't work. If anyone out there with a C compiler has used this,
 I'd sure like a version compiled with a larger default buffer limit. 
 Actually I am assuming the buffer limit is the problem; the program
 may have more problems that I can't C ;-)

 Thanks for any info.
 ------------------------


 And while I'm here, I'll mention a new PD program called Midi Playground
 that converts between MIDI, binary, & text formats. It has no interface
 to speak of, but could be real useful for people trying to figure
 out or use sysex capabilities without good docs (I know that synths always
 come with good docs ;-) ). Just press a button, or turn
 a wheel on the synth and watch the data come across in text format 
 (cryptic but ascii), save the file, and send it back converting the other 
 way. Used with a nice database & librarian, this should allow saving
 all kinds of bizarre manipulations as files. I haven't put it through the 
 paces, but this seems like macro capability in a text editor. If you can 
 do it with buttons, the program will remember it and do it for you again 
 later. Or you can send the text file electronically to a friend who can 
 convert it back again. All midi data is recorded, but there is no timing 
 like with a sequencer.  The docs say you can enter text in an
 "easy to learn programming language" and have it converted to MIDI.
 I doubt it is easy to everyone. 

 Anyway, since this program also comes with C source code, you hackers 
 may be able to get it to run on other computers too.

 Dave

Re .43:

Y'know, I'm glad you jogged my memory. I have some MIDI utilities, including
some source and a library, which came with my CMI (now Digi-Fex) MIDI interface.
It's the "Pregnant Badger" set, if anyone has heard of that. I keep meaning to
upload it, and I keep forgetting. I'll try to get to it sometime soon, but it
won't be this week (lotsa commitments!).

BTW, I just tried some uploading and wasn't successful; anyone know if I do or
don't have to use "rz" to get my VAX to receive ZMODEM when using VLT with
autoactivate turned on? I thought that was only for the VAX->Amiga direction,
but I tried it both with and without and got nowhere. I did nothing special to
my TERM settings; do I need PASSALL or somesuch? (Yeah, I know, wrong note and
all, but it is relevant, sorta...)

Cheers,
	Bob

The pregant Badger stuff is a very nice multitasking MIDI library
package by Bill Barton. He wrote it in 87 and 88. If only Commodore
would endorse it and all of the application writers use it (or something
else). Some may use it - I'm sure the non-multitasking MAC ports don't,
and I guess the DR Ts stuff uses its own MPE or whatever.

The MIDISTUF package I mentioned does use it.
The MIDI Library stuff is on a Fish disk. We should probably consolidate
the Amiga MIDI stuff and put it on MIDI::MIDI:[MIDI]MIDI.MIDI.MIDI.MIDI...
or whatever ;-) ;-) ;-)

Can't help you on the upload without being at the Amiga.

Dave