Conference napalm::commusic_v1

    There are indeed simple "drum boxes" on the market. I think Korg
    makes one and I recently read where one of the 2 big boys (either
    Yamaha or that R-word company) is doing the same.
    
    It's a good idea...
    
    Edd

	I have two of those kinds of animals.

	One is from Roland - although it's not STRICTLY a drum box - it's
called the Super quartet.  It has the equivalent of the sounds of the TR707
(minus a couple of sounds) in it and can only be played from an external
controller (although there is a way to make the multi-function bottons on the 
front play them - not recommended in real-time as the buttons are not easy to
push in rapid succession).  It has other sounds, too, based on the Juno 106
architecture.  

	The other box is from Korg, the MR-16.  It's basic kit's sound quality 
is not up to current technological standards, but the Latin percussion section
is good.  It has 16 (I think) PCM digital drum sounds, and can only be played, 
again, by an external controller (keyboard, sequencer, ...).  It only resonds
to two levels of velocity, though, but it DOES resond to MIDI volume (i.e., it
can be programmed, in a limited way, to be expressive).

	Both of these are rack-mountable, and both are older technology.  But
they have become the heart of my studio for the last three or four months, and
you'all should hear a piece (or two) in the next COMMUSIC that displays their
usefulness.

	BTW, both of these are out of production now, but can still be found on 
some store's shelves.

	Dan

    The MT32 has builtin drums sounds, plus piles of other sounds. It's
    an expansion box and has some nifty features built in, although
    you can't get at most of them unless you hook it to a computer.
    The MT32 isn't really designed for performance, it really is meant
    to hook to a computer/sequencer.
    
    							John.

    
    Of course, you could buy a relatively cheap rack-mount sampler,
    too, like a Mirage rackmount, or the new Roland S-330 when it comes
    out. Then you take the drums, and you get a sampler too.
    
    /pjh
    

    I have an MMT-8 & an MT-32 (with the built in drum functions), maybe
    we could exchange CASSETTE dumps of drum tracks (I've been working
    on building a library of patterns - many of which are good building
    blocks for songs). You might find some of the drums on different
    notes (all on MIDI channel 10), so, we might have to exchange some
    note/drum layout info also.
    
    							Jens

    Korg offers the DRM-1 rack mount drum synth, and Roland still offers
    the DDR-30 rack mount unit, though this a fairly old unit now. 
    The DDR-30 has only 6 sounds (snare, bass, 4 toms), the DRM-1 has
    more and is memory-card extendable.  The DDR-30 really isn't
    competitive anymore, though it was the only thing like it when it
    came out.  The DRM-1 has some nice features, but the only review
    of it that I've seen said the sounds left a great deal to be desired.
    The DDR-30 sounds great, but has only the bare bones featurewise.
    
    There's a rumor that Yamaha is going to bring out a sequencer-less
    RX-5 in a rack.  I wish Alesis would make a sequencer-less HR-16
    in a rack mount unit, with some way (3.5" disk would be ideal) of
    adding new sounds.
    
    General purpose samplers make good drum synths, but they often include
    features not needed in a drum synth and leave out others (mostly
    having to do with voice assignment strategy) that are necessary.
    Buying a cheap general purpose sampler is likely to result in cheap
    sounding drums (remember, good sounding drums have a lot of bass
    and highs and need a lot of bandwidth, especially cymbals), as a
    lot of the money you pay for it is for features that don't help
    when it comes to sampling drums.
    
    The millenium is yet to come.                                    
    
    len.
    

    Oh yes, I forgot to mention the Forat and the Wendell, both of which
    are priced at about $4K.  Mostly for pros, they are specially designed
    sample playback units tailored specifically for use as drum synths.
    There's a Wendell Jr., at about $1K (I think), but it only holds
    2 (count'em, *two*) sounds.
    
    len.
    

RE: .0

    Unless I change my mind within the next few days, I intend to do just
    that - buy the HR (which sounds nice, but has a lousy "sequencer") and
    drive it with my ST sequencer. 

RE: .6 (HR or facsimile w/loadable sounds)

    Right.  You're not alone in your wish, len.  The current and soon-to-be
    boxes (DRM and RX5-in-a-rack) are quite pricey (circa $900).  Better
    off getting the HR.  Less investment and better sounds, IMO.

-b

    
    
    re: .-1 Brad
    
>    Unless I change my mind within the next few days, I intend to do just
>    that - buy the HR (which sounds nice, but has a lousy "sequencer") and
>    drive it with my ST sequencer. 
    
    
    you're gonna love it. Now that I understand how to program tracks
    from the Octapad/HR-16 to the ST I'll probably never use the HR-16
    sequencer again.
    
    /pjh

    I seem to remember a disgusting tidbit about the forthcoming Yamaha
    drum module (for do-it-all studio types, anyway)--it has no
    cymbal sounds! 
    
    It accepts RX5 sound cards, but the reviewer (I think it was an
    MT review) said s/he couldn't find any cymbal sounds in the cards,
    either.
    
    It is intended to perform the same function as Simmons and Pearl
    boxes, for the electronic drummer.
    
    Steph

    > no cymbals.
    
      Not surprised. Does anyone else get the impression that Yamaha
      couldn't develop a new product if they tried?
    
      I like their FM synthesis, but they just seem to be doing LOTS
      and LOTS of silly things. (I really need a sampler with *65*
      LFOs....)
    
      Edd

    It seems that this kind of drumbox w/o a sequencer could be made
    real *cheap*, and should be popular (most MIDIots already have a
    separate sequencer). The ability to change/add sounds (3.5 discs
    would be nice) would be a big bonus, but would also add to the price.
    Personally, I don't think any of the synth companies are interested
    in producing inexpensive modules anymore. They'd much rather sell
    you a $500 box with a lot of features or a sequencer you don't need, 
    than a $200 box. It looks like even Casio is abandoning the low end 
    semi-pro/amateur market.
    
    BTW, has anyone seen any of the cheapo Korg (MR-16?) boxes around. Sure
    would like to have a boxful of Latin sounds for $40-50.

    Rob

    I'd take a careful listen to the Korg MR-16 before buying.  A friend
    has one, and the sounds sound like they're recorded on a cheapo
    cassette recorder.
    
    If you find the sounds satisfactory, go ahead and buy it.  It *does*
    have independent outputs on each of the sounds, as well as mixed
    outputs.  Also has independent pan and gain pots on each sound.
    Lotsa knobs.  However, can ONLY be played over MIDI.  No front-panel
    controller buttons whatsoever.
    
    And it has a nice metal (not plastic) case.

< Note 1363.13 by CTHULU::YERAZUNIS "A wizard is someone who's been doing something for a week longer" >

	I agree, listen to it first.  The kit sounds are poor.  I find the latin
percussion sounds incredibly better than the kit.  Why Koprg didn't put the same
care into the kit that they did into the latin stuff, I can't imagine.  The kit
sounds like it's a few generations of tape away from the original sample (kind
of like a few bounces on a multi-track).  But the Latin sounds, at least in my
opinion, sound as good as most anything out there these days (with the exception
of the HR16).

	All other comments on controls are absolutely correct.  It has more 
control than many other of the devices I have and at a fraction of the cost.  I
have used it to add variety to my other kit.

	Dan

    
    re: .-1, .-2
    
      Yes, by all means listen to it first. 8-bit sampling is what the
    Casio SK-1 uses. If you have heard the 'quality' of that sound,
    then you're pretty close. 
    
    /pjh