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Conference napalm::commusic_v1

Title:* * Computer Music, MIDI, and Related Topics * *
Notice:Conference has been write-locked. Use new version.
Moderator:DYPSS1::SCHAFER
Created:Thu Feb 20 1986
Last Modified:Mon Aug 29 1994
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:2852
Total number of notes:33157

1335.0. "TC2290 and H3000 info wanted" by MISFED::SFAFRAK (In the midst of this confusion) Thu Apr 28 1988 02:16

Hello,

First off, I would like to introduce myself to all of you "Noters" out there:

My name is Scott Fafrak and I hail from Albuquerque, New Mexico.  I have been
a very quiet participant of COMMUSIC for the past couple of months and I thought
that now was as good a time as any to start actively participating.  I have 
noticed in previous notes that everyone has given a profile of themselves; 
I will do the same very soon.

Has anyone had the chance to demo the TC2290 Dynamic Digital Delay by 
TC Electronic or the H3000 Ultra-Harmonizer by Eventide?  Are they as good as
their ads claim?  What is their list and street pricing?  And finally, is it
worth the plane ticket to LA to give them a test-drive.

Living in Albuquerque has one major drawback:  upper-end equipment is very hard
to test before you buy. 

Scott
T.RTitleUserPersonal
Name
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1335.1welcomSUBSYS::ORINTax Return = Money to BurnThu Apr 28 1988 13:1711
Hi Scott -

Welcome to COMMUSIC! It's slow, but alive again. My local system manager
moved up to ZKO and is now in charge of QUILL. I'll ask him about system
performance improvements. It may be the network. As to the equipment
you mentioned, how about giving us a description. That type of gear is
not sold in local music stores in the Boston area, as far as I know. You
probably have to go to a pro-audio store here. What are you planning on
doing with the gear? What kind of musical stuff are you into?

dave
1335.2Musically SpeakingMISPRT::SFAFRAKnot multi-timbral enoughFri Apr 29 1988 00:5451
    
TC2290 -- It is basically an "everything-they-could-think-of" box.
    
    o	100khz sampling -- (4 second, 11 second, and 32 second expandable
    			   options)
    o	Chorusing, flanging, multi-tap delay, panning, etc.
    o	Can control five other effect units
    o	Midi
    o	I'll bring in my literature on Monday and give you a better
    	description.
    
H-3000	
    o	Diatonic pitch-shift
    o	glitch-free operation
    o	digital effects (reverb, delay, etc.)
    o	Midi
    o	again I'll bring in my literature on Monday.
    
    
What will I use them for?  Well, as you have probably figured out...
I am another MIDIot.  Actually, I am a guitarist who became facinated
with keyboard equipment about a year ago, and I have not stopped for
air yet.  My current list of gear is as follows:
    
    o	5 guitars (two Hamer Explorers -- custom built; one Gretsch
    		   anniversary model hollow-body; one Jackson Soloist
    		   Custom, and one Ovation 1986 Collector's Series 12-
    		   string)
    o	Mesa/Boogie Quad-preamp
    o	Mesa/Boogie Stereo Simul-Class 295
    o	2 Mesa/Boogie 4x12 EVM enclosures
    o	Fender Princeton
    o	Randall RG80 and 4x12 Celestion enclosure
    o	Fender Lead 140 and 4x12 Fender enclosure
    
    o	Ensonic ESQ-1
    o	Roland D50
    o	Kawai K5m
    o	Roland S550
    
    o	Fostex 450-16 mixer
    o	Fostex E-16 recorder
    
    o	And an Anvil rack with a Roland SDE3000, Roland DEP5, Aphex
    	Aural Exciter Type C, a Rocktron HUSH IIc, and an Alesis MicroVerb
    
I'll be back on Monday and I will give you more information on these
two wonders of electronic technology.
    
Scott_who_needs_a_better_paying_position_to_be_able_to_continue_buying_all
     _these_toys...
1335.3If you *do* fly, I want your frequent flyer milesSRFSUP::MORRISThe best laid plans never get laidFri Apr 29 1988 03:238
    
    I usually hit the Guitar Center here in LA once a month to check
    out all this new stuff.  I could give you a review if you wait a
    week, and then tell you if it's worth the trip.
    
    Ashley in Smogland
    
    P.S.  I thought ***I*** had a lot of junk, er music equipment....jeez!
1335.4Sounds like a 'better' SPX-90DREGS::BLICKSTEINThe height of MIDIocrityFri Apr 29 1988 09:498
    I'd love to hear (lots) more about H-3000.  Sounds like just the thing I've
    been waiting for.  I had heard that it was under development but I
    hadn't heard that it's now available.
    
    I haven't seen the "ads" you referred to.  Perhaps I overlooked them.
    Could you provide me with a reference?
    
    	db
1335.5Here's the descriptionsMISPRT::SFAFRAKCOMMUSIX for kids, silly rabbitMon May 02 1988 23:26187
Hello,

Here is the information I promised on .2.  My original note still stands,
any on-hands information would be greatly appreciated.

re: .3  Ashley, a week will be fine; however, I will be waiting on pins
	and needles.

re: .4	db, I believe I first heard about the H3000 in either the April or
	May issue of "MIX", but it also might have been "EM."  

The information	below comes from the brochures I received from both companies.
I have enclosed their addresses as well in case you have further queries.

The following is a rather long discription of both units:






 

Eventide H3000 Ultra-Harmonizer

"The Ultra-Harmonizer puts all the power of TWO top-of-the-line Eventide
 Harmonizers, PLUS a complete high-end digital reverb and effects processor,
 into a single 3�"-high package, at an incredible price." -- Eventide.

I recently found out that the list price is $2395.00.

Some features include:

	o  Dual Shift 		-- Two independent, fully deglitched 
				   pitch-changers.
	o  Layered Shift 	-- Two different pitch shifts one one input.
	o  Stereo Shift		-- Stereo pitch-change tracks both channels.
	o  Diatonic Shift	-- This one needs more room for explanation.

Diatonic Pitch Shift:	

"If you're a musician, you're going to LOVE this one... Diatonic Pitch Shift 
is the biggest breakthrough in pitch-change technology since Eventide first 
invented the Harmonizer!  Versatile as they are, conventional pitch-changers are
almost useless when it comes to doing harmony lines.  Any interval other than 
an octave will yield out-of-key pitches." -- Eventide

"The H3000's Diatonic Pitch Shift program solves this monumental problem, in 
real time, by analyzing the note being played and generating musically correct
harmony, based on your specification of the key signature or scale in which you
are playing.  One input can be harmonically pitch shifted to two separate 
musical intervals.  The two outputs, when combined with the input, yield a 
musically correct triad chord." -- Eventide

Other Diatonic Pitch Shift features:
	o  Quantize		--  "Quantize mode digitally 'quantizes' the 
	   output pitches to the nearest even-tempered interval.  So, even if
	   you go off-pitch, the H3000 can keep the output 'in tune' for
	   harmonies, pitch correction, and special effects.  Would you believe
	   you can even use the Quantize mode to 'fix' off-key singing?  Wait
	   'til you try it."-- Eventide
	o  User-Defined Scales	--  "User-Defined Scales let you custom-map new
	   scales for bizarre harmonies, astounding random pitch shift effects,
	   and do 'just' and other non-even-tempered harmonies.  It can even be
	   set to pitch shift only one note out of the scale."-- Eventide

Other features:

"The H3000's Reverb Factory programs sound rich, smooth and natural...except 
when you want them to sound funky or nasty.  Because the H3000 gives you an 
unprecedented amount of control over critical parameters which change the 
characteristics of the reverb itself.  Here's just one example:  The built in
Gate lets you not only specify Threshold and Response Time, but also gives
you separate Parametric-like EQ parameters on both the open and closed gate,
plus two different decay parameters, above and below the gate threshold.  For
operational simplicity, specialized parameters such as these are usually not
displayed unless the user selects the Expert mode."--Eventide

There is a "Width" parameter which is include in the stereo programs that
will give full Left-Right control of the stereo image.

And STILL others:  Swept reverb algorithm, Swept Combs algorithm, Ultra-Tap
		   algorithm, and the Long Digiplex/Dual Digiplex algorithms.

The H3000 also has full MIDI implementation, and it is designed for internal
expansion.

Key Performance Specs:

Digital Spec:	 Full 16 Bit resolution @ 44.1 Khz sampling rate
Freq. Response:	 5hz-20khz +/- 1db,(.5db typical)
Dynamic Range:	 >92db "A" weighted
Distortion:	 .01% (.007% typical)@ 1khz, 1db below clip in Dual Shift program
		 levels all @ 0db
Delay:		 Up to 1.5 seconds
Pitch Variation: 1 octave up, 2 octaves down
Inputs:		 Stereo, true differential balanced, 100K ohms impedance, +20dbm
Outputs:	 Stereo, true differential balanced, <100 ohms impedance
Power Required:	 75 watts, 120 volts +/- 10%, or 230 volts +/- 5%, AC 50/60Hz
RFI Protection:	 AC power connector and audio inputs are RFI protected.
Dimensions:	 3.5"H x 19"W x 13.5"D
Weight:		 Shipping weight 18lbs	Net weight 13lbs

Eventide     One Alsan Way, Little Ferry, New Jersey  07643

What more could you want for signal processing?  Well, if you are like me, this:

				*****

TC Electronic TC2290 Dynamic Digital Delay

Key Points:

 1.	1 MegaHz sampling rate
 2.	18 bit resolution
 3.	20-20KHz frequency response for 32 second sampling, +/- 0.5db
 4.	100 programs
 5.	100 samples possible to record and loop
 6.	Editing via audible scroll up/down, or numerical punch in
 7.	5 outboard effects loops for outboard effects, programmable turn on/off
 8.	Tap in rhythm instant "learn" button
 9.	100db signal to noise ratio (dead silent operation)
10.	Four waveforms for modulation
11.	Doubling, chorus, flanging, tremolo, vibrato, compression, effects
12.	Inverse of all of the above including expansion and gating
13.	Panning-Auto, and variable, with or without source signal and reverse
14.	Long delay and chorus simultaneously
15.	Dynamic delay ... "ducking" standard
16.	Silent, instantaneous program change
17.	Silent bypass
18.	Programmable output level
19.	Remote foot controller for live stage performance, all parameters
	possible
20.	Non-volatile program memory
21.	Twenty factory presets; can be bypassed, own presets can be encoded
22.	Internal clock can synch-delay, flanging, and pan sweeps
23.	99 different panning programs are possible to construct
24.	Midi -- can receive and send midi commands, and change parameters thru
	midi
25.	Option to connect to computer for hard disk storage and patch librarian
26.	Sampling -- source and sampled signal indistinguishable -- even CD data
27.	Entire sampling time can be transfered to delay
28.	Can sample via foot controller in live performance
29.	5 way sampling trigger -- manual, audio, midi, internal clock, foot
	controller
30.	Looping -- via internal clock -- 1-255 time per miunte
31.	Can play back random samples, repeated endlessly in programmed order 
32.	Can play back all samples as one continuous piece of music
33.	.1 millisecond manual sampling trigger
34.	.5 millisecond audio sampling trigger
35.	Can manually pitch shift samples 1 octave up and down via program or
	trigger
36.	Pre-records for 28 milliseconds before actual sampling begins
37.	Soft cross-fades on all sample retriggering
38.	Mono in, stereo out
39.	Two units can be locked in perfect stereo to run as master and slave
40.	Functions assignable to any and all 16 midi channels
41.	XLR balanced inputs and outputs, and �inch jacks
42.	Affordable
43.	Software updatable
44.	Hardware expandable

I was able to get a price list from November 1, 1986 that listed the TC2290 as
follows:

2290	Digital Delay		$1999.00
:04	Sampler Add-on		$ 499.00
	  (factory installed)
:11	Sampler Add-on		$ 999.00
	  (factory installed)
:32	Sampler kit Add-on	$ 299.00
	  (Install additional
	   Chips Only)
:32	Sampler Complete	$5599.00
	  (No Installation
	   required)
0144	Foot Controller		$ 399.00

t.c. electronic   PO Box 5039, Bergenfield, NJ  07621


I have a little more detail on some of the TC2290 bullets but I have 
typing cramps (this is a good exercise when you cannot be practicing).  So,
if you have questions let me know; I will try to provide some sort of
factual answer (and if not, I'll make somethin' up.  Hee Hee).

Scott
1335.6ANGORA::JANZENTom LMO2/O23 296-5421Mon May 02 1988 23:594
    Well, that's certainly a high performance device, although it has
    less delay time that the spx.
    a mega-sample/second?
    Tom
1335.7not kiddingANGORA::JANZENTom LMO2/O23 296-5421Tue May 03 1988 00:016
    another thing, In 1976 for a theatre sound course, I proposed an
    opera-singer correction systemfor opera houses.  It would improve
    their diction and correct their pitch.
    So eventides finaly caught up...
;^)
    Tom    8
1335.8Yet another application of this technological marvel ;-)DREGS::BLICKSTEINThe height of MIDIocrityTue May 03 1988 16:3312
    re: .7
    
    Given the description given earlier, one would think that the H-3000
    would actually REMOVE vibrato.  If so, I personally would find this
    very useful in opera cause although there's lots of opera music
    I like, I can't STAND the wide vibrato that's sometimes used.
    
    There are rock singers who have actually worked hard to REMOVE
    the vibrato in their voice.  Guess that's why I became a R&R'er
    instead of an opera accompanist.  ;-)
    
    	db
1335.9Late replySRFSUP::MORRISExcitable BoyMon Jun 06 1988 13:2110
    O.K.
    
    *None* of the stores here in LA have the H3000 (or so they say),
    and *none* of the ones I know even carry TC.
    
    I don't know what to tell anybody about getting a demo.
    
    Such is life in smogland.
    
    Ashley
1335.10Vaporware, but there are working prototypesDREGS::BLICKSTEINThe height of MIDIocrityMon Jun 06 1988 13:4721
    Turns out that the Eventide H-3000 has not been released yet, although
    certain performers such as Steve Vai have been given, I guess,
    prototypes.
    
    No one seems to be very confident about when they will be available. 
    It would seem that dealers are getting the same kind of thing about
    delivery dates that Alesis was giving during the long labor of
    releasing the HR-16.
    
    Everyone seems to think, (as I do), that this is gonna be a real
    killer of a device.  I'm not convinced however, that many people
    are gonna see its potential.  I'm sure to most it will seem like a more
    costly version of the SPX-90.
    
    Maybe one of these days I'll be able to afford one at firesale prices.
    
    Tell you though, if they ever come out with one that can do several
    effects at once for under $800 or so, I'm going to attempt a hostile
    takeover of Eventide. ;-)
    
    	db
1335.11A possible demoMISING::SFAFRAKAlbuquerque...once a vast wastelandTue Jun 07 1988 00:4412
Thanks for the attempt at locating the units; even though you drew a blank, I
appreciate it.

I have been talking to a dealer here in town who may be able to get the units
shipped to him for me to demo at a small fee.  If this materializes I will
let you and Dave know how they sound.  Providing the H3000 lives up to its
ads and it is released, I think August is when I will again enter the
"Land of the living Debt."
    
Ah, what better way to spend your life savings than on high-tech toys...
    
Scott
1335.12Not Vaporware says EventideMISING::SFAFRAKAlbuquerque...once a vast wastelandThu Aug 11 1988 20:1414
    I talked to Eventide in an attempt to get some information regarding
    the H3000's availability.  It is not promising.  The man I talked
    to said that they were taking orders today that will not be shipped
    until December.  The good news is that the Ultra-Harmonizer is not
    Vaporware; in fact they have been shipping units to distributors
    since March and they have tripled production on the unit in the
    past couple of months.  He also gave me the numbers of a couple of
    stores in California and Arizona that were shipped a few units this
    week.  He said that they may be willing to sell one (probably at
    list).
    
    I will let you know.
    
    Scott
1335.13TC2290 and H3000 are here!ISLETA::SFAFRAKScottFri Nov 18 1988 17:2021
    I just received the TC2290 with 4 seconds of sampling time and the
    Ultra-Harmonizer.  In a word, "Unbelievable".  Both are amazing!
    
    The diatonic-shift on the H3000 is flawless and 3-part harmonies
    are a snap.  I have only used the H3000 on my guitar so far and
    the results were GREAT but I still think that using it on vocals
    will sound similar to something in the "Chipmunks" genre; similar
    to what a sampler does.   
    
    More later, I am in the process of moving, so when I get settled
    and have some more time to play, I will give a detailed analysis
    of both pieces, until then, just a couple of comments:
    
    TC2290 is dead-silent -- the effects are crystal clear; beautiful
    chorus, panning effects, and the ducking delays are great!
    
    H3000's reverb is better-than-average, and the diatonic shifts are
    the best I have heard (including the IPS by Digitech).
    
    Scott