Conference napalm::commusic_v1

    If the Mirage went dead, I'll bet it's not the cable.
          
    The Mirage wasn't dependent on the cable and should have continued
    to play.
    
    Edd
    
    
    

    Oh yeah, almost forgot...
                                                           ---
    My amp has a three way ground switch set up this way  | + |
                                                          | o |
                                                          | - |
                                                           ---  
    The "+" and "-" are obvious, but the people at Daddy's
    said that the "o" position is a "no ground" position. 
    The problems stated in .0 occurred when the ground switch was set
    to the "-" position. When I switched the ground switch to the "o"
    position, the problems never re-occurred.
    
    By the way, the amp sounds great; power- and projection-wise this
    thing kicks serious butt. Also I thought the guy did a good job
    installing the new components; no obvious hacks--it looks pretty
    clean even though he had to cut a bigger hole for the new horn--you
    can't even tell (except that the horn is bigger).
    
    I would hate for the problem to be the amp, but if it is, I'd like
    to be able to establish that soon, and take advantage of the warranty
    period that Daddy's offers on their used stuff.
    
    Mike D

	I can't tell you much about the amp, but concerning MIDI cords...

	The MIDI spec states that pins 4 and 5 are in use and pin 2 is used for
ground.  That's all.  There's no mention of any other use of any other part of
the DIN plug.  I have used MIDI and 5-pin din cords (i.e., those not sold 
specifically AS MIDI cords) interchangably and have never had a problem.  The 
only time I can imagine this to be a problem is if the manufacturer of a 
particular synth did something OUTSIDE the limitations of the MIDI spec.

	It IS curious, though, why they use a FIVE pin Din plug.  Is this, 
perhaps for future enhancements to the MIDI spec?

	Dan
	                            

    Evedently the sheilding can be wrong the the 5 pin DIN connector.
    I have a freind who was having all sorts of random occurrances
    of notes getting stuck on, that cleared up after he switched to
    MIDI specific cables. I've been making my own (I need a bunch that
    are 2 feet long or shorter) & I use the 2 conductor sheilded wire
    from Radio Shack, and a set of thier 5 pin DIN connectors (I've
    even made up some cords with female 5 pin DIN connectors, that allow
    me to make quick switches of layouts without having to undo too
    much stuff). These have not caused me any problems & are a few bucks
    a pop (what good are 10 foot cables when most of my stuff is a 
    foot away from each other). Also, you can build a MIDI switch (as
    described in another note), letting to swap parts in and out (I
    use on on my Yamaha MIDI Filer to decide whether the CZ-101 is
    sending to the sequencer, or the MIDI Filer is - Nice & quick!).
    
    The sheilding, and the wires being twisted pairs seem to be essential
    for proper MIDI use. I think that the problem starts getting more
    promenent when you start adding more MIDI devices.
    
    								Jens

    Hi again Mike,
    	I know practically nothing about midi, but if you're looking
    for something to do with your Ohmmeter, try checking the continuity
    between pin 2 (see previous reply), and the casing.  If they are
    connected, try disconnecting them, and otherwise, if they are not
    connected, try connecting them.  Although this is obviously a hack
    approach, when dealing with semi-standards, it is often the only
    way to go.
    						jpb

    
    re: Dan
    
      Huh. My Atari manual has the pinouts for the MIDI ports on it.
    It has all five pins used. Believe it or not, I got both thru and
    out on the same connector... Those two "unused" pins... I gotta
    check this out.
    
    re: Mike D
    
      I doubt your MIDI network is having the problem, but every doubt
    has an indicator also. I have hung my MIDI network by feeding In
    to Out all around and trying to play the player when echoing MIDI
    in to MIDI out on all the boards. Just did it last night. Cleared
    it by breaking the loop. Wreaks havoc on the sequencer (it just
    *hung* there)... I'm finding out all sorts of things this way....
    
    /pjh

    
    Yes, they are leaving room for enhancements to the MIDI spec, but
    I am not sure whether 5-pins is ever going to be enough.
    
    I already run into problems when playing along with sequenced mat-
    erial.  Things get lost.  Notes don't come on,  some don't go off.
    I need more bandwidth.
    
    I would like to see some sort of coax  solution.   Mega-bandwidth,
    no delays on long thru configurations.  MIDI serves  its  purpose,
    but it has become somewhat outdated and can no longer be improved
    through mere expansion and enhancements to the  spec.  It's  time
    for a revolution.
    
    _sjz

    
    re: .-1
    
      Sure, if all the manufacturers can agree again on the standard,
    and they give us upward compatibility for all our existing MIDI
    hardware.
    
    I checked my Atari again last night. Yup, there is a MIDI thru
    superimposed on the MIDI out connector. Whatever did they do that
    for? Now I'll need to build a box to take advantage of it. 
    
    For you Atari owners:
    
    MIDI OUT				MIDI IN
    
    1 - Thru TD                       1 - NC
    2 - Shield Gnd                    2 - NC
    3 - Thru Loop Ret                 3 - NC
    4 - Out TD                        4 - In RD
    5 - Out Loop Ret                  5 - In Loop Ret
    
    /pjh

    Well, since the general consensus seems to be that the amp is at
    fault, I decided to open it up last night and take a peek. When
    I got it opened right away I noticed that the guy at Daddy's was
    telling the truth about the horn-- it IS an Electro-Voice! I couldn't
    get at the 15" speaker to see if it is in fact a JBL, but I'm assuming
    if he told me the truth about the horn, then there's a good chance
    that there is a JBL in there--besides when I compared it to another
    stock KB-300 in the showroom the bottom end on my amp blew the stock
    amp away.  OK, so I looked at the connector going from the amp section
    to the speakers. Looked OK. So I compared it with another connector
    near the bridge rectifier and noticed that the other one was a lot
    tighter fit because it was closed up more. I got a pair of needle
    nose pliers in there to squeeze the speaker connector toogether
    more. I'll bet that will fix the problem. Time will tell.
    Thanks to you all for your help/opinions/suggestions.
    
    Mike D
            
    

    While we're at it ...

    What would the pin config for the extra MIDI box for the ST look like?
    I could probably figure it out, but I don't want to think right now.

    A simple line diagram would be fine.

-b

    This reminds me of a converstion we had a while back. Someone, I
    can't remember who, was complaining about the orientation of the
    MIDI jacks on his synth. Oh, if my problems were only that small.
    Anyway, the problem was that half the synths in the world have pins
    down, and the other half have pins up. (This is an approxomation,
    as I have heard of a radical fringe which has pins sideways)
    This sparked the creative muse at LERDS-BIM, and the concept of
    a MIDI jack orientation switcher was proposed. It would consist
    of a 1 foot cord with a male jack on one end, which you would plug
    into your offending synth, and a female jack on the other end, which
    you could rotate to your favorite position, and not have to worry
    about whether your jack was pins up or pins down.
    
    In this month's Electronic Musician (May '88) Craig Anderton, who
    this reporter hitherto thought was a reasonable person, came up
    with the same gripe. Honest, read his editorial on pg 6. His concept
    of the MIDI patch bay, proposed later in the editorial, is a good
    idea though, and makes up for the pointless complaining in the second
    paragraph. 
    
    Truly, you cannot please them all.
    
    dp
               

    
    re: .-1
    
       Truly. Should have been in the April issue instead.
    
    re: .-2
    
       Sure:
    
    
      +-----------+
      |      ____ |		
      | +---/3  1\+
      | | +-|5  4|	"ATARI OUT"
      | | | \__2_/
      | | |    |
      | | |    +-------+
      | | |  ____      |
      | | | /3  1\     |
      | | +-|5  4|     |	"OUT"
      | |   \__2_/     |
      | |      +-------+
      | +----------+   |
      |     /3  1\ |   |
      +-----|5  4|-+   |	"THRU"
	    \__2_/     |
               |       |
               +-------+
    			
    
    I believe this is the correct schematic. At least that assumes that
    pin 5 is always the loop return for whatever you are trying to send
    or receive.
    
    /pjh

    re -.1:
    
    Also connected is pin 4, atari out to midi out.
    
    Small oversight, great diagram.
    						John.

    Regarding the orientation of the MIDI plug, sure it would be nice if
    the standard included that.
    
    But this is another benefit of labelling.
    
    In a recent note I revealed my shocking anal rententive behavior
    regarding labelling (all my cords are labelled).
    
    I have also done this with my synths and modules.  On my keyboards
    I have a strip of tape on the back edge telling me the functions of the
    plugs just beneath the strip.  This is so I don't have to have to 
    strain my neck to read the back panel which is where all units put
    the plug labels.
    
    Yet another endearing feature of the ESQ-1 is that the plugs are 
    labelled BOTH on the back panel, and on the top panel near the back.
    
    Anyway, one of the things I put on the label is the orientation of the
    MIDI plug.
    
    Oddly enough, this has demonstrated itself to be the most valuable
    label because even though I've damn near memorized the layout of the
    MIDI plugs (as the result from the "switching" problem that we're
    discussing elsewhere), I *STILL* can never remember the orientation
    of the MIDI plugs.
    
    	db

    
    re: .-2 (re: .-3)
    
    oops. Thanks for the feedback. 
    
    /pjh

    
    Please refer to my note on midi 
    ground-loops. I think the title
    had some verbage as:
    "get a buzz on" or something.
    
    let me check....
    
    ron
    

    
    Note 776.*
    
    (now, to read the replies to this note and see if
     i'm on track....)
    
    rrrrrrokn,rrrrrrrrrrrokn...