Conference napalm::commusic_v1

    Hmm, I am going to  presume that weighted keys (not plastic) are 
    important as are having 88 keys.
    
    There's two I can think of.  One is the new Korg sampled grand (don't
    remember the model # thought).  The other is the Roland RD-300S.
    
    These will both be significantly better than the Mirage and certainly
    the DX7.
    
    Sampled grands that I don't care for: Ensoniq and Yamaha PF series.
    
    	db
    
    

    
    I vote for the Korg. If for no other reason,  Keith Emerson does his
    Hanons on one.
    
    _sjz

    Whats wrong with the Jupiter?

    
    It doesnt sound or feel like a piano!
    
    

    
    re: non-working Jupiter 6
    
      Isn't that a 5-year-old keyboard? Might the lithium battery have
    died? I've been waiting for my Polysix to do the same thing. Should
    manifest itself by losing all patch data and acting flakey on startups
    and initialization....

    I didn't say it did. :-)  I was wondering for a friend.  

    Re:3
    
    The JP-6 when it powers up it should go and tune all the occillators
    and then into play mode.  Mine decided to go in tune mode and won't
    come out of that mode.
    
    The battery was replace like two months ago when I send it directly
    to Roland because one of the occillators when dead.  
    
    Between work (???) and gigs I haven't been able to open it up nad
    troubleshoot it, But I will because I still love that analog sound
    which I haven't been able to reproduce with my other keyboards.
    
    By the way Does anybody have the schematics for the JP-6.
    
    Re: the Piano sound.
    
    What about the Kurzweil (whatever)1000.
    
    Sorry for the late response, We had our link to the States down
    for a few days.
    
                                           

    < Note 1297.7 by TAINO::NUNEZ "Edgar Nunez" >
>    Re: the Piano sound.
    
>    What about the Kurzweil (whatever)1000.

    I hear the keyboard action is not to many folk's liking on the K1000,
    but I have the 1000PX rack unit, played  with a KX88, and I'm as
    happy as a javelina in a beavertail patch.
    
    karl_in_the_desert    

    The K1000 has non-weighted plastic keys.
    
    The rest of this review is limited to subjective impressions:
    
    They keyboard felt really cheesey to me.  Totally out of character with
    overall mark of quality impression I had.  Imagine using plastic keys
    on a Steinway.
    
    	db

RE: K1000

    I played one a few weeks ago, and agree with db.  Cheezy feel. My ESQ
    plays better, and my KX76 (which I had just purchased) played a LOT
    better.  [insert smug grin] 

    Then I noticed a Kurzweil MIDIboard on the other side of the room, and
    went over and played it.  [delete smug grin; insert whine]  In no
    uncertain terms, unequivocally the best playing controller I've ever
    touched.  Rivals the Steinway I learned on.  Great big $$$, though. 

RE: KXmumble

    I heard a nasty rumor on the USENET that KX controllers cannot put out
    a MIDI velocity of over 110.  Is this true?  Hoping that it's not ...

-b

    Re:  KX controllers
    
    I heard this many years ago.
    
    I will upload an Atari ST program on monday which will display the
    maximum values of some of the numeric MIDI params.  You can try it out
    for yourself. 
    
    Steph        

    re KXnn velocity :
    
    I regularly get velocities 120-127 on a KX88, looking later at the
    MIDI stream with Performer's edit window. [your mileage may vary]
    
    I bleeve it was the original DX that had velocity limitations.
    
    karl

    The program is in may14::public:midimax.prg
    
    It finds the maxima and minima of attack velocity, release velocity
    and channel pressure.
    
    Run it and pound/press the keys until the reading stop changing.
    
       Steph

    I bought what I felt was the least-expensive-but-no-compromise digital
    grand piano, namely the KX88 keyboard controller and the MKS20 digital
    piano module.  It cost me $2395 (before tax).  One of the items
    was bought used however.
    
    By the way, if you were to run your DX7 midi out to the KX88 midi in,
    the KX88 will echo the DX7 data along with its own data to the KX88
    midi out.  You can then daisy chain any midi slaves you have (via
    midi thru) and be able to control any slave from either keyboard
    without having to purchase a midi patcher.  It's more useful if
    you have the E! upgrade installed in the DX7 since then you have
    local off, programmable transmit channel per patch etc.
    
    With the E! upgrade installed, you could map any sound (DX7, Mirage,
    Jupiter, or piano module) to either keyboard simply by setting the
    midi transmit channels of the keyboards.
    
    Guido

>    By the way, if you were to run your DX7 midi out to the KX88 midi in,
>    the KX88 will echo the DX7 data along with its own data to the KX88
>    midi out. 
    
    Are you sure that it can echo it to MIDI *OUT*, or does it just go
    to MIDI *THRU*.  I've always held that *ALL* MIDI devices should be
    able to merge IN to OUT (like the HR-16).
    
    Actually, what I'd like is two MIDI INs: one that gets merged into
    OUT, and another that doesn't.  What I want to do is create two
    independent MIDI networks, one that's an input to my sequencer
    (comes from outs of my keyboard and drum machine), another that's
    the output of my sequencer.
    
    Right now, I can't do that without creating a loop.  I have to pull
    MIDI cords when I switch from programming keyboards to drums.
    
    	db
    

Dave,

I use the following topology. Everything is programmable from 1 keyboard
and there are no loops. The HR can be programmed from either the Mirage
or it's front panel...
                                                    Typical ch. assign.
       -->     Mirage MIDI IN
       |          MIDI OUT          (local off)           Ch. 1 (RX))
       |             |                                    Ch. n (TX)
       |             V
       |        HR-16 MIDI IN            (master clock)
       |          MIDI OUT               (merged)           Ch.16
       |             |
       |             V
       |         QX-7 MIDI IN            (slave) (echo on)
       |           MIDI OUT              (merged)
       |             |  
       |             V
       |        TX81Z MIDI IN                              ch 4-11
       |         MIDI THRU   
       |             |
       |             V
       |         MKS MIDI IN                                ch 3
       |          MIDI THRU             
       |             |
       |             V
       |         DX MIDI IN                                 ch 2
       |         MIDI THRU
       |             |
       |-------------|

If I wanted 2 master keyboards, I'd merge Mirage OUT and DX OUT *before*
the HR-16 MIDI IN.

Edd                                                       

    Edd,
    
    I don't think this will work if you were storing the drum notes
    in the sequencer as I do would it?
    
    Also, am I right in assuming that you can only start the clock
    from the HR?  Thus, if you couldn't use any LOCATE type commands
    your sequencer had right?
    
    	db

    Yep, you're right. However, if I wanted to store my drum patterms
    in the sequencer I could swap the HR-16's and the QX's positions
    and master/slave relationship, allowing me to input drum patterns
    to the sequencer and use any LOCATE type commands I might have.
    
    The only reason I've adopted the HR as master is due to the step
    time weirdisms I detailed earlier. Using the sequencer as the input
    to the drums makes this a moot point. 
    
    Edd

    I believe that if you swapped the QX and the HR you'd end up with a
    configuration where the HR's OUT would not reach the QX's IN (just
    as in the current configuration the QX's out does not reach the HR's 
    IN), or have a loop.
    
    If the HR's OUT does not reach the QX's in, you have to swap cables
    to program the HR drums into the QX.
    
    It's a damned if you do/damned if you don't type of thing.  One
    configuration does not allow you to record HR notes, the other
    doesn't allow you to play them back.
    
    Daddy's in Nashua had a MIDI switching box on sale for about $79
    recently.  You get two inputs and something like 4 outputs.  The
    small number of outputs is no problem because you can hook most
    things in series using MIDI THRU. 
    
    The number of inputs is a slight problem.  It's fine for solving
    this problem when I'm sequencing stuff, but actually I would like
    to have 3 different configurations
    
    	1) Sequence record - OUT of keyboard and HR goes to sequencer IN
    
    	2) Seuqence playback - OUT of keyboard and HR goes to null to
    	   avoid loop
    
    	3) Performance - OUT of keyboard goes to all other devices
    
    So far, I haven't found an inexpensive box to do this.  I was very
    tempted to get that two output box, but I'm somewhat reluctant
    to spend money on partial solutions.  I can live with the problem
    for now.
    
    Ultimately, I'm gonna get my rack to the point where it functions
    as ONE integrated unit.  The only plugs it will have are:
    
    	1) MIDI going in
    
    	2) Audio going out
    
    	3) Power 
    
    Just like a single unit.
    
    	db
    
    p.s. As you probably have noticed, I *HATE* cords and go to extreme
    	 lengths not to have to deal with them.
    	db

    I see no need for the HR out to go to the QX in, as I could easily
    program the HR using the master keyboard and using the HR for
    nothing but an SGU, ignoring it's sequencer and it's input
    pads.
    
    But, different strokes...ya know?
    
    Edd

    RE .15
        
>>    By the way, if you were to run your DX7 midi out to the KX88 midi in,
>>    the KX88 will echo the DX7 data along with its own data to the KX88
>>    midi out. 
    
>    Are you sure that it can echo it to MIDI *OUT*, or does it just go
>    to MIDI *THRU*.  I've always held that *ALL* MIDI devices should be
>    able to merge IN to OUT (like the HR-16).

    The KX88 only has Midi IN and OUT.  There is no THRU.  Midi OUT
    is always the sum of MIDI IN plus the KX88's own MIDI OUT data.
    Believe me, I was completely surprised that Yamaha would add such
    a handy feature to one of their products.
    
    Guido

    re KX88 'out'=='thru'..
    
    As I'm out of inputs on my Sonus MIDIswitcher (KX88/Mac), I needed
    one more 'in' to take the MIDI clock data from the Yword YMC10 FSK
    sync box.. its out is plugged into the KX88's 'in', 'out' patched
    to Mac in external sync mode.. works GREAT. verrry handy.
    
    karl

    
    
    I have also been looking at tidying up my Midi-net recently the
    main reason being the use of the Atari as an input for patch
    modifcation and also the sequencer to drive the system at the same
    time. ( the Devices I wanted to program being mainly the TX802/FB01
    and the Akai sampler). I just plugged the atari out into the KX88
    in and took the output from which ever device I was programming
    at the time. A bit of hassle but mo mean issue. 
    
    Worked fine with the Yamaha devices but as soon as the Akai sent
    a sample dump down the line the whole thing fellover. Flashing lights
    and then midi-err message on the KX88. I assumed this was just
    manafacturer incompatibility and went of to discuss this with my
    supplier who said, surprise, surprise, have I got the machine for
    you. The akai me30pII midipatch bay which include a free packet
    of soap powder and everything the man could want. including 4ins
    8outs plus midi-merge. So I borrowed one to try. 
                                                    
    Sounded like just the thing, took at least 3 hours to set up. No
    scribble pad. Worked fine with the TX802. Tried the sample dump
    and whammo. No access via midi flashing lights. And a fairly embarrased
    shopowner who is in touch with akai. He lent me a Yamaha YMM2
    midi-merge box which has the same problem. Except that is doesn't
    fall over when the atari sends the patch dump it just stops evyrthing
    else from happening. I have established that the thing works if
    I turn of the midi-clock on the sequencer, not much good if you
    want to program during the sequence.
    
    Perhaps I am just expecting too much from midi.
    
    						Paul.                            
                               

    what does this sound like to me? Sounds like the queue that makes
    the midi merge work is overflowing. Of course, when you're multiplexing
    data streams, you need a queue to hold the data you're not sending.
    Now, if the midi merger recieves data faster than it can spit it
    out, after some time the queue will overflow, the length of time
    being determined by the size of the queue. Now, I don't know how
    the midi merge does arbitration ( deciding who gets to send a byte,
    when ), but my guess is that it's probably pretty simple, like toggling
    between the two, whether there's data or not. In any case, it probably
    consumes some time just figuring out when it is appropriate to switch,
    seeing as multiple byte packets can't be spliced without causing
    serious brain damage.
    
    What to do? Well, I think that you can also do a direct switch with
    most of these midi merge gizmos. Quite a few a reconfigurable via
    midi. Before you do a huge patch dump, set the unit to switch directly
    to the atari input, with no midi merge. This is more than likely
    just a switch, with no queue intervention, therefore, no queue to
    overflow.
    
    If yours does not let you do this, get a different unit that does.
    My guess is that the queue depth on most units is certainly no bigger
    than 1K, and most simple arbitration schemes will introduce delays,
    meaning that this will be a common ailment with generic midi merges,
    that the best way to avoid this dilemma is to do a hard switch on
    the midi merge just prior to large patch dumping.
    
    						John.

    
    Re-1
    
    Which really defeats the object in the first place.
    I guess.
    
    					paul.

RE: KX scrambling

    This is a common problem with KX76/88 boards.  I tried doing an ESQ
    SYSEX dump thru my KX76 to an ESQ-M, and it went berserk. 

    Any SYSEX type info that is not Yamaha specific seems to confuse the
    pants off the thing.  I wonder if the boys in the Far East are aware
    of this? 

-b

    re:.7
    
    I got my JP-6 back in the road.  
    
    The problems was apparently ??? that the microprocesor chip was
    not making good contact, I reseated the IC and WHAM it started 
    working.  
    
    Re: G Piano
    
    I test drive the the PK-1000 and the KORG sampling piano.
    
    To my taste the KORG was far superior for that particular sound
    and keybord feel.  The interesting thing about the PK-1000 was the
    rest of the patches which some of them were very good.
    
    I might be going to Mass. next month so what ever my choice be I
    be buying it them.
    
    Hope to see you all then.......
    
    Thank for all your comments.....
    
    
    Edgar,

    Edgar,
    
    There is a good article in the June '88 Electronic Musician magazine
    that compares the Korg Roland and Yamaha sampled grands. If you
    can get that magazine down there, it may help you.
    
    Mike D