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Conference napalm::commusic_v1

Title:* * Computer Music, MIDI, and Related Topics * *
Notice:Conference has been write-locked. Use new version.
Moderator:DYPSS1::SCHAFER
Created:Thu Feb 20 1986
Last Modified:Mon Aug 29 1994
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:2852
Total number of notes:33157

1253.0. "Problem with MIDI Setup (or Signed, Frustrated MIDIot)" by AKOV68::EATOND () Tue Mar 15 1988 12:01

	Ever since I got a hold of a C64, I've had hassles.

	I'd like to list some of the problems to see if some of you wizards out
there can offer some advise (or at least some comforting words).  

	I had bought (used) a Sonus interface (plain vanilla version, no 
options) and a sequencing software package from Syntech called Studio 1.  It
appears to be a proto-type for the Sonus Super Sequencer.  When I had hooked it
all up and began working on various parts on my current project, I began to 
notice stuck notes here and there, and also some notes missing as well.  By 
about the fifth track it was no longer a suspicion, it was obvious.  It would
even add a note once in a while (how nice).  I got together with the seller and
we set up the same system, replacing only my RD200 (controller) for a JX8P.  The
problem appeared to disappear (cute phrase, eh?).  Was it the RD?  You'd think 
so, except for the fact that such things had never happened before using my
dedicated hardware sequencers (QX7 and MSQ100).

	Well, I was able to return the software, but I kept the interface.
Shortly thereafter I began to wonder whether it was the interface that was the 
culprit.  I had written a patch editor for my Roland MKS7 and noticed that it
would, at times, ignore the patch change data - or, perhaps, the data never got 
there.  I was fooling with it last night when I decided to take a look at what 
was coming out of the interface.  The QX has a MIDI 'monitor' mode that displays
the hex code coming into the midi in port.  When I fired out a patch change
message from the C64, the QX only registered an 'F0' (which is the initial code 
for a sys-ex message).  Qx users (that's you Edd) or MIDI wizards in general:  
Does the QX only display the initial message?  Does it ignore the rest since
I was sending the Roland ID?  Would it display it anyway?

	The next step, it seems, is to start substituting parts.  But I thought
I'd ask... Has anyone else experienced these weirdities?

	Dan

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1253.1from another MIDIot ...MIZZOU::SHERMANput down the ducky!Tue Mar 15 1988 12:3210
    The only wierdness I've experienced along these lines is the QX's
    inability to take a Casio dump.  Can't make the QX wait the right
    amount of time.  My guess is that the FIFO on your interface (assuming
    it has one) is too slow (not likely) or too small to handle any
    reasonable amount of data, maybe?  More likely, the controller is
    sending out a weak or noisey signal (which would explain the JXP 
    working okay).  Just guesses from the hip ...
    
    
    Steve
1253.2... and play the saxophone!AKOV68::EATONDTue Mar 15 1988 12:4510
RE < Note 1253.1 by MIZZOU::SHERMAN "put down the ducky!" >

>    More likely, the controller is
>    sending out a weak or noisey signal (which would explain the JXP 
>    working okay).  

	Why would this explain the JX8P working?
    
	Dan

1253.3you saw the Sesame St. special, too?MIZZOU::SHERMANput down the ducky!Tue Mar 15 1988 14:417
    I was thinking that maybe the output of the RD200 had a little noise
    on it (maybe from a bad power supply) and that the QX7 and MSQ didn't
    see the noise.  As the Sonus is (I'm guessing) powered by the C64,
    if the power there is not up to snuff, the Sonus might be sensitive
    to the noise.
    
    Steve
1253.4STACK Problem??SIGANA::JWILLIAMSTue Mar 15 1988 18:0228
    Midi interfaces can cause all sorts of wierd behavior. For example,
    when running a CZ230S off of an ST, it was dropping bass notes here
    and there. Very annoying. I tried MIDI slow, that didn't appear
    to work. I finally tried transposing the duration of the note to
    shorten it by one clock tick. SPROING! It worked flawlessly. I have
    since purchased an MT-32 and have had no problems of this nature.
    
    I guess the moral of the story is, FULL MIDI compliance is more
    than byte patterns, it is how well the synthesizer responds to
    sequences. If you have notes on and notes off within a clock tick
    of each other, some synthesizers might get confused. My own personal
    theory is that many synthesizers store byte data in a stack while
    they're working. The note on goes on top of the stack and is executed
    before the note off ( which should have been the previous clock
    tick ). The OFFICIAL way of doing it is to use a fifo, but cost
    cutters find it economical to use the stack instructions found in
    a normal micro processor.
    
    I don't know about you, but I quantize almost everything ( I am
    a good guitar player, but can't hit keys worth a drat ). This makes
    the " STACK " problem surface, especially if you have alot of things
    going on at once. I'd really have to dig into to the hardware to
    speak any of this with authority, but it's my personal guess.
    
    If you can edit individual events, try shortening some of the
    durations.
    						Good Luck,
    							John.
1253.5What's in the black box?ROLLIN::BAILEYSteph (stef&#039;) BaileyWed Mar 16 1988 09:4820
    Dan,
    
      Do you know, roughly, what is inside the Sonus interface?  A
    description, to the precision of:  hundreds of ICs of all sizes,
    or one 40 pin IC and a bunch of discretes (transistors, resistors,
    capacitors) would be useful.
    
     It's hard to debug the problem if you (I) don't know who's doing
    what in the process.
    
     .4 seemed like a likely candidate for the sequencer problem--I
    would call it ``differences in voice assignment algorithm'', rather
    than ``MIDI noncompliance''.   That would explain why the JX works
    and the RD200 does't, but it still doesn't explain why your patch
    editor doesn't work.
    
     Noise seems unlikely to me.
    
     Steph