Conference napalm::commusic_v1

    Well, Jim, take a good listen at a Midiverb II.  Besides being an
    affordable effects box with good specs (15kHz bandwidth, 16-bits,
    all stereo, not too noisy, Midi) it can let you hear what many of
    the effects you've listed sound like.  The box includes 29 flavors
    of reverb (more like room emulation), 10 flavors of gated reverb,
    6 sort of emulated reverse reverbs, 10 flavors of flange, 10 flavors
    of chorus, 20 flavors of delay (from 35 msec to 460 msec), and assorted
    multitapping, stereo generation, echos, blooming and such.  No aurel
    exciter, but from what I hear that's more like a noise generator
    and is thought by some to be overrated and not useful for anything
    but guitars.  It basically works by adding higher frequencies than
    what are originally present.  As to the 'art' of using the effects,
    I've always felt you're the best judge - you know what sounds good.
    There has been some discussion about when and how to use these effects.
    Probably the best rule is to add effects last if you're doing mixing
    or recording - again, your ear is probably the best judge.  Also,
    if you are considering a setup, you might want to look at getting
    something like a Midiverb II for special effects and a Microverb
    on the side to add general ambience (same specs as the MVII, but
    limited to the reverb-type effects).  I figure down the road I'll
    probably add a Microverb or maybe an SPX-90 to my system so I can
    free up the Midiverb for effects.  One last thought, some synths
    include effects (like my TX81Z can do chorus, delay and reverb),
    but you'll find that in general the onboard effects are not 'as
    good' as outboard effects.  This is because for many (not all) synths
    the manufacturer generates the effects by layering voices or diddling
    with voice envelopes.  The outboard effects are done via algorithms
    or whatever.  I'd stay away from spring or Radio Shack types of
    reverbs.  That's just my preference.  I've got a Radio Shack reverb
    (you know, supposed to make it sound like a large room) which is
    an analog box and rather noisy.  It *doesn't* sound like a big room.
    But, it is an effect in addition to the MVII which I can use should
    I care to (maybe instead of an aurel exciter ;-^ - lots of noise).
    
    Steve

    
    
    RE .-1
    
    I think I have to defend the role of the aural exciter (or those
    generic "instruments"). I have used both the aphex and the alessis
    versions and have not found them to add significant amounts of noise
    unless misused. I have other effects especialliy an SPX90II which
    are noisier. Also I tend not to use them on guitar or any specific
    instrument but more in conjunction with a gate and or compressor
    for adding a bit of treble boost and clarity to the final mix. 
    Again this can be overdone generating an uncomfortable sound balance 
    and invalidating the effect. Like all effects, as you quite rightly
    say, it is a matter of your judgement and what you find pleasing.
    I would certainly concur with your recomendation to TRY the MVII
    as an excellent multi-effects unit.
    
    					Paul.

    My ideal effects box would be one that talks during the duff bits
    of my tapes, and turns it up and shouts 'listen to this' during
    the less duff bits. This is what I do every time I play 'em, so
    a box like this would save considerable labour.
    
    Richard.

    
    
    re. -1
    
    You mean like:-- Hang on folks theres a tempo change
    coming....3..4...Now!
    			
    		  ;-)		Paul. (see you Thursday)

    A specific question, for example, of the types of things I'm trying
    to learn about using effects:
    
    I'd mentioned in .0 that my band uses digital delay.  I don't know
    the ms setting (think it's around 200 or so?) ... we add some to
    all vocals, keyboards, and less so to drums.  I'm using a ProVERB
    at home (i.e. not with the band), and have heard some nice reverb
    effects that add considerable 'ambiance'.  Then again, using digital
    delay at home certainly adds to a 'dry' mix.  So a typical, basic
    question for me is ... to 'liven up' a dead/dry patch on my keyboards,
    is digital delay the usual approach?  Or reverb?  Or (more $$$)
    both?  I have this same question w/ respect to drums.  I guess since
    I got the ProVERB, my 'ears have opened up', I realize there's more
    than just digital delay available, and I find it hard to judge which
    effect is appropriate, which is 'most commonly' used to 'make a
    dry sound not so dry', etc.  
    
    	-Jim

    re:aurel exciter
    
    Hey, don't misunderstand me about the box.  I was just mentioning
    what I've heard about it.  My attitude is that anything that sounds
    right *is* right as far as music goes.  I'd certainly be the last
    to break the unwritten commandment about basement-level music
    geekmanship:
    
    Thou shalt not point out to thy fellow technogeeks that they hath
    rendered unto Caeser more than is just for their instruments lest
    they smite thee and inflict thee with cursings and bad reviews on
    thy COMMUSIC IV submission(s).  Yea, verily, thou shalt not do this
    thing or anything like unto it, lest thou be thought pious, unworthy
    and no better than the infidels (those who have not yet rendered
    homage to Roland, Yamaha, Casio, Kurzweil, Oberheim, Kawai or Ensoniq).
    
    
    And thus it is so,
    
    Steve

>        
>    	Flangers
>    	Chorus
>    	Delay
>    	Reverb
>    	Phase
>    	Echo
>    	'Aural exciters'>

    Don't forget 
    vocoding, 
    filtering, 
    pitch change, 
    balanced modulation,
    vibrato
    looping

    The SPX 90 can do vibrato and some filtering and pitch change.
    I think some new effects box (perhaps the DEP 5) can do
    vocoding and modulation.  I get the latter two from PAiA kits.
    I wouldn't dedicate the SPX to reverb.  Use the SPX for effects
    and the MV for ambience.  

    Digitech has a new edition of a 7.6 second delay called the 7.6.
    Some composers, including Paul Dresher, have been very interested
    in delays up to 20 seconds (using two tape machine 12 feet apart).
    The SPX90II has 2 seconds delay.  THe SPX90 I has .5 seconds.
    
    Using flanging and chorusing thickly enough on piano cannot 
    (CANNOT) be distinguished from the piano being out of tune.  
    Being out of tune or chorusing can create almost the same exact waveform.
    The PAiA vocoder can be adjusted for 90% understandability on a
    pulse carrier with a professional readio announcer modulating,
    but is hard to adjust for chords (use mostly open fifths) and 
    less trained voices.  My synth is too peaky.  Probably a synth
    should be limited before going into a vocoder, and the voice
    compressed.  The SPX can compress.  Don't expect vocoding to
    be understandible without feeding through the original voice,
    or by cueing the audience.  For example, in ZBS Foundation's
    production, Ruby (a radio mystery), in the introduction, the
    announcer said "Ruby" clearly, then the vocodist repeated it
    without feedthrough, so it was recognizable.  The repetition
    after clear dialogue technique was used throughout the scripts
    when Ruby spoke.  The vocoder represented a self-levitating
    ball-shaped companion robot.  Laurie Anderson used vocoding
    with feedthrough to good effect in O,Superman.
    
    Using feedback on some effects can make interesting effects.
    E.g., pitch change an octave lower with feedback sounds a little
    like a big gamelan.  Pitch change on the SPX is never in tune. 
    I used it a lot on the Beethoven thing on COMMUSIC III.
    Pitch change on octave up with feedback is like chimes or something.
    Pitch change has an inherent flutter that is more or less supressed
    depending on the machine you get.  Eventide suppresses it best.
    The flutter is most apparent on sustained sounds such as whistling,
    violin, singing, and so on.  Laurie Anderson has used pitch change
    on violin, but most prominently on her voice, to lower it roughly
    a perfect 4th, for her "clone" which can be seen in the 3rd season
    of Alive From Off Center on PBS. (the first season is re-running
    on Channel Two Boston Fridays at 11.
    
	Effects boxes are coming out that can do multiple effects at
    once.  The SPX is MOSTLY a one-effect-at-a-time box, but not totally
    so.  People have written here that most pro set ups use 3 spx90s.
    
Tom

    
    Re.6 Sorry my reply on excitement was not intended to sound fractious
    just informative. Actually I'me quite excited myself.
    
    					Paul.

    re: Alive From Off Center
    
    For y'all that haven't seen this show, last Friday they started
    with a rebroadcast of the original show.  The best thing on it was
    a thing Laurie Andersen did (Mr. Sharkey or some such thing).  This
    is great stuff as far as experimentation goes - the kind of thing
    that makes you want to try out new stuff.  I'm glad this show was
    mentioned.
    
    Steve

Jim -

Here is what I use the effects for:

    	Flangers - nice for guitar
    	Chorus   - good for fattening thin sounds, nice on sax, guitar, voice
    	Delay    - mainly for vocals
    	Reverb   - excellent for snare drum, strings, vocals, piano, synth
    	Phase    - guitar, electric piano
    	Echo     - same as delay
    	'Aural exciters' - not worth it, get good speakers instead

Of course you will want to try these effects on other instruments.
Read the manual, then experiment. That is the best way to learn about these
effects. You can't learn about what sounds good out of a book. You can find
technical information at the library or music store.

vocals - reverb, delay
piano - reverb only, delay gives an echo which muddles the sound
synth - reverb for spaciousness, especially on strings
drums - reverb, especially on snare
guitar - there are zillions of effects pedals, try them all
horns - reverb, chorus, sometimes delay echo effects

For your first effect, I would highly recommend the Roland SRV-2000 stereo
digital reverb. This effect has the most general purpose use for live and
studio. It is fully MIDI programmable, and has noticeably better clarity than
the MIDIverb. There is no "metallic" distortion on the decay portion of the
sound. The Roland SDE-2500 digital delay would be my next purchase, mainly for
enhancing vocals. Most of the other effects are used on guitar, such as
stereo chorus, flanger, noise gate, overdrive, distortion, wah, etc. Reverb
and chorus add a lot to horns, especially sax. 

 These are just my opinions, but should give you a start. As I am always
looking for some new toy to "improve" the sound, I did a very critical
analysis of aural exciters in several studios. My final opinion was...
spend the money on an excellent pair of speakers. Fidelity is the name of
the game. You can't compensate for poor equipment with cheap noise generators.

I hope this helps. I tried to stay on the topic of this note. This conference
seems prone to getting off track.

Dave

Jim -

Also check out the following notes in this conference:

1060 delay
1028 MIDIverb
1027 SPX-90
892 SPX-90 vx MIDIverb
859 speakers
850 reverb
770 reverb and compressors

good luck,

Dave