Conference napalm::commusic_v1

    
    	EVERYONE want to be able to express themselves - with music,
    there is no "right" or "wrong" - only as many ways as there are
    people who play.  
    
    	I may not like everything I hear, but can I (or anyone) really
    say it's "not right"?
    
    
    							Rich

    Uhm, this is another topic which has been discussed to death in
    MUSIC.  Is there any specific resoan why we need to rehash this
    in the COMMUSIC context?
    
    len (who likes music because it sounds nice).
    

>    Uhm, this is another topic which has been discussed to death in
>   MUSIC.  Is there any specific resoan why we need to rehash this
>   in the COMMUSIC context?
    
Sorry, Len. I don't get a chance to read both conferences, so did not
realize that they had been covered in MUSIC. Is there any way for the
moderator of COMMUSIC to move these topics and replys to MUSIC? What
happens to the replies if I delete the base notes?

Dave

ps. Thanks for the MIX catalogue. I looks very interesting.

    
    
    remember, next time you are at a party...
    and someone brings up any topic at all...
    
    you just say "listen, this has been discussed to death at
    other parties and we need not discuss it again!"
    
    after all, you couldn't possibly have a variation on opinions
    that might cause people to realize they missed something...
    could you?
    
    so from now on, only new topics that have never been discussed
    before may be discussed anywhere anytime.....
    

    Sorry, Rik, but that's not apropos.  That's certainly not my intention,
    either.
    
    How about we talk about my recipe for Danish pastry here.  I know
    there's a conference on cooking somewhere, but I like Scandinavian
    music too, so it's not that unrelated.
    
    You're right, you don't listen, you argue.
    
    len, who's now sorry he was dumb enough to mention it.
    

    I like music because it's musical and I like musical stuff.
    Tom

    Yeah, Tom, I couldn't have said it better myself.  I knew we agreed
    about something!
    
    I like music too, I guess because it sounds nice.
    
    I'll talk to AG about it tonight and see if he's got anything
    insightful to add.
    
    Anyone wanna hear about my danish pastry recipe?
    
    len.
    

    no thanks len.
    
    I hate music because it never comes out the way I 
    "hear" it, and its too much of a challenge for the
    same reason, that I fall short and get really disgruntled
    and pissed and keep trying to improve,
    
    for some reason....
    
    
    er, ya know?
    
    ron
    

    Oh, so true Ron, so true.
    
    I don't know why I put up with this crap.  It's a form of self torture.
    
    I think only once in my life have I done something perfectly in
    music.  There's this little thing in "Heartbreaker" (Benatar, not
    LZ) where the guitar does a one note bend and hammer-on, (at the
    end of the intro) and, well, not that I wanna be immodest or anything, 
    well.. I nailed that sucker at Falljam 87.
    
    The whole rest of the tape makes me cringe like nails on a chalkboard.

    	db - who is lucky enough to have that brief moment of musical
     	     exaltation on videotape.

< Note 1082.0 by  >
                         -< Why musicians love music >-

Well, there were a lot of replies, considering this isn't considered a
COMMUSIC topic. My original question, "Why do musicians love music?",
was intended to stimulate your imaginations. It didn't work. That
question implies all kinds of interesting (to me at least) questions
about living creatures and how music affects them, i.e.

Why are there so many "types" of music i.e. rock, jazz, pop, classical etc.?
What effect does the music have on emotions, mood, etc.
Why do musicians like to make music? What's the purpose? Why is it entertaining?
Why do musicians prefer certain sounds to others? What makes a great patch?
How does the brain "create" ideas for new songs, new sounds, etc.?

Perhaps this topic does belong in MUSIC. I don't know, and don't have time
to read both conferences. As you can see, I am interested in much more than
the latest hardware review and how to rack mega-midi-devices for under $100.
Perhaps I should switch to MUSIC conference and see if I can find someone
interested in the "whys" and "hows" of making "better" sounds. I thought
that COMMUSIC was about making sounds, be they "music" or "effects", and how
/why certain types of equipment make more pleasureable sounds than others.

bye

    < Note 1082.11 by LEDS::ORIN "Raucous Roland Renegades" >
                   -< no imagination, see hardware catalog >-
>Perhaps I should switch to MUSIC conference and see if I can find someone
>interested in the "whys" and "hows" of making "better" sounds. I thought
no, they only talk about ROCK.
    Tom

    I thought all we ever talked about was Madonna...
    
    Steph

    Well, you might get a slightly different perspective on this issue
    over in MUSIC, as it wouldn't be limited only to us
    techno-weenie-dweebs who get our jollies making wierd sounds.
    The enjoyment of music is clearly not limited to its making,
    especially the technology thereof.  And despite Tom's assertions,
    the discussions over there do occasionally address topics other
    than rock.
    
    Also, reading whatever replies you might receive there will not
    take any longer than reading them here - you don't *have* to read
    all that other stuff that gets posted there.  Just keep track of
    the note number of this one note that you're interested in.
    
    I find it ironic that I'm accused of shutting off the discussion
    when in fact what I was trying to do was make it possible for more
    people to contribute to it... 
    
    len.
    

    Robert Schumann used to write aphorisms for his students.
    Once he speculated on the reasons musicians go into music.
    I read it once 15 years ago, here's what I remember:
    To become famous.
    To become rich (!)
    To please one's friends (I figure, to do what you think your friends
    	expect you to do, one dead end lots of people follow)
    etc. etc.
    
    I think musicians like music because it was drummed into them during
    childhood by cruel parents who couldn't appreciate beer and football.
    I think musicians like music because their early friends (8-18 years
    old) raised them to like it.
    I think musicians like music because the part of their brain that
    heats up when they listen to music (I'm not making this up, there
    are published scientific photos) is bigger than in non-musicians.
    I think musicians like music because they have friends that tell
    them they like their music (witness my change into a performance
    artist, having realized that my music is worthless crap and that
    I have no talent (I learned this from Moeller, he wouldn't lie,
    would he?)).
    I think musicians like music until they get famous and the producer
    and manager start telling them what to play where for whom when.
    Then it's work and not playing music, it's working music, and it's
    not fun anymore so they quit as soon as they can afford it(see, whatever
    happened to... note in MUSIC).
    Not depending on music for a living, not being BIG successful, makes
    you free.  Money enslaves.
    Tom

>   No, they only talk about ROCK (in the MUSIC conference).
    
    Let me avoid any  potential confusion and say that the MUSIC conference
    is for ALL kinds of MUSIC, not just rock.
    
    The reason why there aren't more notes about non-rock topics is
    largely because people make complaints like "there aren't enough
    non-rock topics" instead of WRITING non-rock topics.
    
    MUSIC is a forum, not a magazine.  You can't expect to see articles
    on your favorite topics the way you would in a magazine.  You have
    to WRITE THEM.
    
       Dave Blickstein
       MUSIC Moderator

>(witness my change into a performance artist, having realized that 
>my music is worthless crap and that I have no talent (I learned this 
>from Moeller, he wouldn't lie, would he?)).
    
    .. and you would never deliberately misquote anyone, would you?
    
    Actually, Tom, I do have a high regard for your keyboard skills,
    especially hand independence.. it shines through the atrocious
    'throwaways' (not a misquote) you let us all hear. I do think you
    are talented, (more than you would ever grant ME) but off in a 
    direction 180 degrees from anything I'd care to spend time with.
    
    karl

    >< Note 1082.17 by SALSA::MOELLER "IBM Farts,Industry Genuflects.Film@11" >
>                 -< what's 180 degrees from everything else? >-
>
>>(witness my change into a performance artist, having realized that 
>>my music is worthless crap and that I have no talent (I learned this 
>>from Moeller, he wouldn't lie, would he?)).
>    
>    .. and you would never deliberately misquote anyone, would you?
>    
>    Actually, Tom, I do have a high regard for your keyboard skills,
>    especially hand independence.. it shines through the atrocious
>    'throwaways' (not a misquote) you let us all hear. I do think you
>    are talented, (more than you would ever grant ME) but off in a 
>    direction 180 degrees from anything I'd care to spend time with.
>    
>>    karl

Well, actually, I admit an envy of your success in distributing tapes
    to local record shops, and enjoying appropation in music, something
    that has eluded me.  I crave applause, but was always playing
    for heterogenous audiences rather than one primed for modern stuff.
    I really did used to improvise similarly to you, but apprehension
    of being heard by the neighbours and complained about (almost no neighbour
    has ever said they heard me (in apartments)) has kept me from
    just doodling for 7 years.  I wish I had at least a kx88 and mks20
    so I could do what I wanted.  I'm contemplating pf85, but the price
    has got to follow the yen/dollar soon, so I'd better not hesitate.
    Anyway, one has to admire the loyalty of a wife willing to not tolerate
    but work for your musical career.
	    
	your music isn't really so awfully distant from something I
    can appreciate on a pianist-doodling level, therefore, and the fun
    I had doodling.  
    that involvement with choreography is interesting; a dance teacher
    once used a piece of mine in class, but I couldn't find the little
    hall they performed in, so missed it.  But she didn't use my other
    music professionally 
    because the attractions of tap dance took her away from her
    work in modern dance.  I improvised for some of her students once,
    too.  But beware; dancers don't like music that distracts audiences
    from  the dancing.  I don't like dancing that distracts audiences
    from my music.  Read Ivonne Rainer (library maybe) on Moosick and
    why she hates it.
    Have you tried to cut a deal with local cable access for a show
    of you playing?  At least YOU could take your setup minus big amp
    into the studio. 8-)
	Well of course I have regard for talent that transcends shortages
    in theoretical knowledge to acomplish what you have, but study form,
    and soon.
            I'm warning you , if you say anything else nice about me, I'm afraid
    I'll have to respond in kind.

    Could you guys take this discussion to mail?  We innocent bystanders
    have seen enough of this sort of exchange before that we really
    don't need a replay.
    
    Tom, shame on you for bating Karl.  Karl, shame on you for letting
    him succeed at it.
    
    Besides, I did that when I was 11.
    
    ;^)
    
    len (who wishes he could play keyboards half as well as either of
    you).
    

    re -.1
    len, why do you think I was baiting Karl.  I wrote the nicest
    reply I could muster.  Heck I'll admit something right now I've
    never told anybody, to show what respect I have for karl.
    He sent me one of his tapes.  After listening to it, I
    broke it up with a hammer.  A few weeks later, I went to
    Radio Shack, bought a cassette repair kit and put it back
    together, because I knew that in 50 years I would want to
    remember the people I met, the only other heavy performing
    keyboardist I met on the network.
    I'm an artist, I don't make this stuff up, I really do stuff like
    that.
    Tom 

    I'd like to say that I see no 'baiting' going on. Also, no battling.
    Rather I sense 'Detente' .. as in 'uneasy truce'.
    
    I've been giving more thought to why musicians love music. As we
    'mature', there are fewer and fewer socially acceptable ways for 
    (nonathletic) adults to play.
    
    Music allows me an environment where I can indulge in role-play,
    fantasy, and adventure.. today I'm gonna be.. a Salsa band.. or
    a classical composer.. or an 80's funkster.. or do a Sitar raga..
    or be a Windham Hill/ECM artist.. or be Albert Ammons/Meade'Lux'
    Lewis and play '30s boogie-woogie..
    
    No WONDER I love music !
    
    karl
    boogie
    

    I like music because it is a beautiful reflection of an ugly world.
    	                      
    
    
    
    
    Example:  Imagine this scene:  The time is sometime in the 1800's,
    the place somewhere in Germany, a large concert hall, full of patrons.
    
    The old composer/conductor mounts the podium, surveys the orchestra,
    and opens the score.  His graying hair is wild and uncombed.  He taps
    the baton, and begins. 
    	
    Sixty-eight minutes later, the crowd rises in a tremendous standing
    ovation, but the conductor stands motionless, does not even turn to
    bow, to acknowledge the applause.  A first violin realizes the      
    situation, runs to the podium, and forcibly turns the aging composer to
    the cheers. 
    	
    The composer can see the cheers now, but he does not hear them. He has
    been losing his hearing for years.  He has been totally deaf for over a
    year.  The work is the work of pure intellect, a triumph of the mind
    over a failing body. 
    
    Over a hundred years later, Beethoven's Ninth Symphony _still_ brings
    the crowds to packed theatres, and to their feet in applause.