Conference napalm::commusic_v1

I strongly recommend this program for anyone who has a Mac and wants to do
MIDI sequencing.

The program is very graphical and easy to use. All of the afformentioned
features are executable using just a few mouse clicks. It's hard to
describe such a visual program with just words.

The standard Mac interface is well implemented. Scroll bars, pull down
menus with equivalent keystroke commands, sizable windows, etc. 
You can scope in from looking at a sreen full of measures to a single
notes data in just a few mouse clicks.

Multi-Track Sequencer

   o You can name the tracks up to 20 or so characters. Click to modify.
   o One MIDI channel per track. That's all I need. Wanna double something
     onto two tracks?...copy it to another track.
   o Independently select tracks for PLAY, SOLO (note, you can have multiple
     tracks "SOLOing" at the same time).
   o Can only record one track at a time. That's all I need.

Song Editor

   o My favorite window.
   o Set markers throughout the song, then just use the tab key to step
     to each marker, forwards or backwards. Name the markers, like "Chorus 1",
     "Verse 2", etc.. Very visual.
   o Cut and paste blocks of tracks/measures, just like in MacWrite.
     Uses Clipboard concept.
   o Multiple tempo changes are not entirely created graphically. I can't
     figure out why. I use tempo changes throughout my work, and this method
     is a bit clumsy, but still very useable.

Step Editor

   o Very useful when quantizing, or otherwise correcting notes/chords.
     Hey, all you Performer user out there,
     is that a *List* of MIDI events that you get to look at and edit?
     Well, this window blows that away (if what I say about Performer
     is true).

MIDI Data Editor

   o This has been my least used set of windows. I don't find the
     need to edit pitch bend, aftertouch, channel pressure, etc.
     information. Heck, I don't even have most of that information.
     I do edit velocity information using the step editor, above.

SysEx Data Librarian

   o My MIDI network consists entirely of 1 Korg Poly-800, 1 Yamaha
     FB-01, 1 Roland TR-505, 1 Opcode Studio Two MIDI interface,
     and 1 Mac SE w/ internal 20MB hard disk.
     Master Tracks Pro is the only software I run on the Mac, excepting
     a game of MacLanding here and there. The point is, it's all
     I need. I'm not a sound designer (no FB-01 sound edits), therefore
     all I need to do is dump an FB-01 configuration for each song I do
     and I'm all set to play. I have been thinking about trying out
     other FB-01 librarians/editors too see if I'm missing anything.

The most recent rev has
added even a few more features that make it even more pleasant to use,
like the ability to just point to where you want a song to play from,
and the MIDI THRU support.

There are plenty of other features that I'm probably leaving out.
Specific questions can be answered.

/Mitch :-)

    Most important question for me is, do they also provide a program
    that works with the sequencer to produce transcriptions?
    
    If not, it doesn't fill my needs.
    
    	db - who is considering buying a Mac

RE: Atari ST

   Don't they have a version of this available for the ST?  If so, does
   anyone know how it compares to the Mac version?

   I just might have to spend some dollars "real soon now". 

   And thanks for the decent review(s).

8-)

    
    And not only should it produce scores,  it should produce correct
    scores by linking eighths and sixteenths instead of adding  those
    silly flags to every note.
    
    Zach, who just bought a Mac

    re: .4
    
    I've been under the impression that most of these scoring programs
    allow you to manually tweak the inevitable anomalies they are subject 
    to.
    
    Have you (or anyone else) found one that doesn't?  If so, which one?
    
    	db

>    Most important question for me is, do they also provide a program
>    that works with the sequencer to produce transcriptions?

No. This is a great sequencer, but it does not produce transcriptions,
nor does Passport have a separate program for printing transcriptions
on the Mac.

However, MTP will do two things for you.

1. The active window can be printed out using a single keystroke.
   While this has nothing to do with transcriptions, it does allow
   you to print the step editor window, which looks like a "piano
   scroll".

2. You can save songs onto disk using MTP format, or you can 'import'
   and 'export' songs using MIDI file formats 0 or 1.
   The latter are "standard" MIDI file formats. I haven't done any research
   into this, but I would guess that other music notation printing
   programs should be able to transcribe from these file formats.

If you need to both sequence and transcribe, don't comprimise one for the
other. I don't think you will find the best of both in one program.

>    
>    	db - who is considering buying a Mac
>

I think it was Len's rule that went something like:

"Find the software you want to do your work with, then buy the hardware
 that it runs on."

  That rule worked well for me. Glad I used it.

    Which leads me to...

>   Don't they have a version of this available for the ST?  

    My Autumn '87 bulletin from Passport says that Master Tracks
    Pro is now available for the Atari ST. Retail Price List says $350.

>   If so, does
>   anyone know how it compares to the Mac version?

    Not me. Long live the Mac. ;-)

/Mitch

>
>Passport Designs, Inc.
>625 Miramontes Street
>Half Moon Bay, CA 94019 USA
>(415) 726-0280
>
>I paid $250 for it back in August. I think it goes for $300 now.

Price correction:

   The Autumn '87 Retail Price List from Passport says $350.

>>    	db - who is considering buying a Mac
>>

>I think it was Len's rule that went something like:

>"Find the software you want to do your work with, then buy the hardware
> that it runs on."
    
    I agree with the essence of Len's suggestion and have quoted "Fehsken's
    Rule" on several occasions.
    
    However, I'm sure even Len would agree that it doesn't take lots
    of important things into consideration.
    
    The first thing I did was to determine that the Mac DOES have the
    software I need.
    
    So does the Atari ST and it costs less money and is IMO a better
    machine.
    
    My first VCR was a Beta.  It ran the software I wanted,
    it was a better machine and it cost less (than the closest equivalent
    VHS units).  Now I have a VHS.  Beta was an underdog to VHS and
    it lost the race.
    
    I think the Atari is a fine machine, but I personally am not willing
    to invest more significant amounts of money in technological underdogs.
    
    I fully realize that this kind of attitude perpetuates the
    non-underdogs at the expense of innovative technologies like the ST, 
    but I can't risk any more of my money for such causes.

    I'm not committed to a Mac yet.  But this is my current thinking.

    	db - apologies to Beta and Atari ST owners

    I certainly agree with the rule attributed to me, but I think it
    was some other COMMUSIC noter long since vanished who actually
    first stated it.
    
    Anyway, Dave's right, it's only one of many considerations, and
    sometimes not the most important.  I bought my Amiga intending to
    use it for music applications, even though there was no software
    to speak of, because its technology dazzled me (it runs circles
    around the Ataris when it comes to graphics, and it does more than
    any Mac for a fraction of the price).  I have never for a moment
    regretted the decision.  Sometimes I'm envious of some the software
    that's available for the IBMs and the Macs, but you can't have
    everything, and I've got pretty much what I want (I use the Amiga
    almost entirely for graphics stuff).
    
    len.
    

    >> How does Mastertracks on the ST compare to the MAC?
    
    Some discussion on the usenet seemed to indicate the the two versions
    were virtually identical (except for the obvious control idiom
    differences between the MAC and the ST).
    
    Steph
    

    I have MasterTracks for the Atari ST.  The documentation shows the
    MAC pictures, but without studying them side-by-side, I haven't
    noticed any difference.  The text has been )mostly) updated for
    the ST.
    
    I bought it mail order from Thoroughbred Music in Florida for $260
    (it would only have been $255, but I used my American Express card
    and I guess it costs retailers more to use AMEX than MC/VISA).
    
    	Bill
    

RE: .12

    Have you tried using the thing for live work?  Can you give an idea of
    how long it takes to load, say, a 10K note sequence?  Does it have
    anything like a "live play" mode where you can queue up sequences and
    simply step thru them?  About how much memory does the thing consume?

    And finally, does the SYS-EX dumper do handshaking?  In other words,
    will it work with my ESQ? 

brad

    I just bought Master Tracks Pro for my Mac for $210 from MacZone (a Mac
    software mail order place). That was $50 less than anyplace else I
    looked. It is version 2.0, which I think has just been released.
    
    So far it looks great. The question I have right now is what other Mac
    products read and write MIDI files? In particular, are there any that
    will do transcription and printing? I own old versions of both Deluxe
    Music Construction Set and ConcertWare. Do either of these read or write
    MIDI files in their latest versions?
    
    -Mark

    
    I went down to HPSRAD::NORCROSS's several weeks ago to see what MTP
    was all about.  I must say that I was impressed, both with the soft-
    ware and the quality of Mitch's composition.  I am now at the point,
    after reviewing any number of sequencers for the MAC,  where I have
    to make a decision and put some money down.
    
    I have chosen MTP,  and am now looking for the best price. Like you
    $210 is at least $50 less than any other place. Do you have a phone
    number or address that you would care to share.
    
    Also for those of you who do own a MAC and are brave at heart there
    is note discussing some midi routines for lightspeed pascal in  the
    MAC notesfiles,  note 1396 I believe.
    
    Zach
    

RE: .14,.15

    I, too, will be purchasing MTP (for the ST, of course) shortly as part
    of a bulk purchase.  $210 is at least $60 better than what I've heard
    (even for the ST).  Let us (aka, me) know how you like it.

    Maybe if we can get this MIDI files stuff straight, we can start
    a COMMUSIC MIDI file in which various people do different things
    to a composition?  Nahhhh.

8-)

    Sorry, I don't have an address or phone number here for MacZone,
    formerly called The Savings Zone. I believe they are in Washington
    state. They advertise in MacUser and MacWorld. I'll look up the number
    and enter it here this weekend.
    
    By the way, I'm also the person with the MIDI routines for Lightspeed
    Pascal on the Mac. I haven't yet, but I'd like to do some MIDI
    programming for it. Does anyone have documentation on the format of MIDI
    files?
    
    On another note, I've got demo versions of both M and Jam Factory for
    the Mac. They are full-featured except they can't save and they exit
    after about 20 minutes of use.  Should I upload these to the network?
    
    -Mark

>On another note, I've got demo versions of both M and Jam Factory for
>the Mac. They are full-featured except they can't save and they exit
>after about 20 minutes of use.  Should I upload these to the network?

    I, too have this demo.. since there is no manual with it, and no
    online doc, it was tough to experiment with. Also M totally trashed
    my custom memory setup inside the KX88..
    
    Anyone can have my demo floppy.. only used once !
    
    karl

    The demo copies I have do have online documentation with them.
    
    -Mark

    Here's the info:
    
    The MacZone
    7102 180th Ave. N.E., Suite A107
    Redmond, WA  98052
    
    Orders only:	1-800-248-0800
    In WA state:	1-800-243-4200
    Info/order status:	1-206-883-1975
    
    -Mark

    I've been thru the info gathering phase on looking for an ST sequencer.
    I really like MTP, but I have one major problem, in that the thing will
    NOT record SYSEX data in real (or step) time. 

    Does this mean that I am unable to blast a patch from the SYSEX dump
    facility to a synth in the middle of a sequence?  I know that this
    limitation prevents me from doing per synth patch diddling on the fly.
    I seem to remember Mssrs. Fehskens and Dreher using their MC500s to do
    this very thing.  How useful is this, and will I regret not having
    it?

    How many of you use sequencers to do SYSEX realtime control or patch
    loads in the middle of sequences? 

-b

    
	NO. most soundgens (SG's?) respond to 'program change'
    commands, which are NOT sysex messages, to change voicing.
    
    The (only?)exception is changing a performance on an FB01.
    (The voice can be changed, but this dont always do it for ya)
    
    So the question is 'does it handle program change msgs'
    
    (BTW, it sounds like they left it out to sell you another
    piece of software (????) that does sysex. Which means that
    there is a filter in the routines somewhere to remove the
    sysex messages, which implies that one could replace the
    "offending" instructions with "NOP"s (image patch) and
    dump it out to another file...cute.
    

Re: < Note 1074.22 by JON::ROSS "shiver me timbres...." >

>    So the question is 'does it handle program change msgs'
    
Yes, it does - and it does it graphically. Onto a "graph" (window) of time vs.
program change value, with a "pencil" you point to the place and value you
want to insert a program change command and click.

>    (BTW, it sounds like they left it out to sell you another
>    piece of software (????) that does sysex.

Not really. The program does receive, store, retreive, and send sysex
information for you, but just not while you're playing or recording
a sequence.
    
------------------
Review of Version 2.0 improvements coming up soon... (upgrade = $free)

/Mitch

RE: .23

    So if I wanted to mung fictitious parameter X in the middle of a
    sequence, changing it from 30 to 40 every other bar for, say, 15
    measures, I'm outa luck? 

    I don't guess it's that big a deal ... I just hope that in the future
    (when I'm *really* good and able to think up magnanamous things such as
    these) they will provide the functionality. 

    Thanks, Mitch & Ron.

-b

    I would consider this a real flaw.
    
    One of the things I'd LIKE to do with my ESQ is to vary the frequency
    of the LFO's.  For example, I'd like to have the LESLIE patch change
    the speed of the modulation instead of just the intensity.
    
    Unfortunately, the only thing you can "modulate" on the LFO's is
    depth.  Ideally I'd like to modulate the speed with an envelope.
    
    The temporary solution I use is to "modulate" with the data entry
    slider by selecting the speed parameter (I can only do this for
    one LFO).
    
    However, as of V2.3, I believe I could do this via MIDI.  Basically
    they have a SYSEX command for every button.  The SYSEX command
    functions exactly as if you pushed that button, so I could do this
    trick by MIDI if I had a way of generating SYSEX messages.
    
    	db

    
    
    Re -3 ,2 ,1, etc
    
    I would also consider the lack of real time midi-recording to be
    a flaw. Although I have now aquired an atari for various around
    the studio Jobs  one of the main reasons I retained the Qx5 was
    exactly this. If youhave any multi-banked instruments e.g. Fb01
    TX802 (in my case) the only way to change banks in mid-sequence
    is through sysex). Also more and more instruments are allowinbg
    for timbre change through real time sysex.         
    
    I think that you  have to have it.
                
    
    			Paul (on a slow modem line)
    

    I finally bought MTP for the Atari, and have had it for around 3 weeks
    now.  It's been too hot to do a whole lot of playing with, but I'll
    pass my reviews on anyway.  (I'm using v2.1.) 

    The U/I is great.  This has to be one of the easiest windowed s/w
    packages that I've ever used.  The only gripe that I have is that
    keystrokes are not assignable to functions (eg, assign ALT C to make
    the conductor window active.

    I've been able to crash the program twice, but neither instance is
    reproducable, and both were attempts on my part to do very off the wall
    things.  I suspect that the problem was TOS and not MTP. 

    The manual is obviously written for the Mac (one section talks about
    the "Option" key on the ST keyboard - ain't no such thing), but is laid
    out pretty well.

    One strange thing (in my mind at least) - a rather simple bass line and
    drum sequence of 110 bars requires over 22K bytes of file storage. That
    seems a bit excessive to me.  I'm not sure what it's trying to store.

    The issue of not being able to record SYSEX in realtime is smoke. It
    would be nice, I suppose - but the program lets you diddle with every
    MIDI controller ever defined (and even with those that aren't!). I
    don't find this to be limiting at all.  I suspect that future upgrades
    will allow this anyway. 

    The copy protection scheme is bizarre.  The master disk is shipped as a
    SSSD floppy.  Yet the disk is formatted in such a way that track 76 is
    read from BOTH sides of the diskette!  The thing is almost impossible
    to copy (so far).
    
    You can't just copy the thing to a RAM disk and run it - the master
    floppy has to be in the drive (gripe).  It also ALWAYS uses the
    disk\folder from where the program was run.  This is a real hassle if
    you want to run from disk A but load sequences from another disk - you
    have to change the spec each time thru. 

    I would also like to see the program provide some means of copying
    files from disk to disk (eg from diskette to RAMdisk) without having to
    exit the program. 

    All in all, though, it's a *real* nice piece of code.  And at $250,
    it's worth every cent. 

-b

    
    <<<insert obligatory boycott_copy_protected_software flame here>>>
    
    	-Bill
    

RE: .28

    Yeah, that was kinda my feeling too - until I talked to the guys at
    Passport.  I guess there's been a "raging debate" within the company
    for the past 2 years about getting rid of copy protection altogether. I
    can see both sides, and while cp is a drag, I can live with it. At
    least they're not being jerks about it. 

    There was an ad in the local want ads last week where some guy was
    advertising used versions of "all major ST MIDI software".  Turns out
    he was selling bootleg copies of everything from the Steinberg
    sequencer to Bo Tomlyn patches to Mirage samples for $5-10 per disk. I
    suppose I'd copy protect, too. 

RUMORS!

    According to Jay at Passport, v3.0 fully incorporates MIDI time code,
    as well as allowing access to a new box they're building that will sync
    to FSK or SMPTE, and allow up to 64 MIDI channels at a time.  From the
    sounds of it, the program will chase anything now (even a late bus). 

-b

    re -1. Recently I bought Voyetra's Sequencer Plus Mark III. They
    have a novel way of handling copy protection. They give you the
    option of having a copy protected version of the software (and they
    will send you a backup if you mung the disk, etc.). But they also
    offer a hardware key option. If you choose this option, they send
    you a hardware key (either a plug-in board type, or a null modem
    type that attaches to your printer [parallel] port--your choice)
    that you install. When the program powers up, it looks for the hardware
    key. If it is there, the program will run, if not sorry pal. With
    this option you can make as many backups of the program as you wish.
    And if you choose the null modem type hardware key option (like
    I did), then you can just take it with you to use on someone else's
    PC. BTW this null modem thing installs on your parallel port, and
    is designed so that you can plug your printer into it, so that both
    can coexist out of the same port simultaneously. 
    
    Mike D

    
    I bought V2.0 sometime in the late winter timeframe.  I sent  in
    for my back up copy and it took about two months later I  called.
    
    "Where is my backup copy ?"
    "We ran out and fell behind.  The latest batch just went out."
    
    And sure enough it came in about three days.  But to my surprise
    I got a V2.1 backup WITHOUT copy protection.  I can copy  it  at
    will and every copy works like a charm.
    
    _sjz.

    I may be giving you a call the next time I come north.  Not having to
    fiddle with that would make my life much easier. 

-b

>DYO780::SCHAFER "Brad ... DTN 433-2408"               6 lines  21-JUL-1988 11:23
>    Now running MTP v2.1 on Atari 1040STf.
>
>    MTP is great for detailed work, but I prefer the ESQ sequencer to every
>    other sequencer I've ever used for speed and ease of use. 


Brad, might I ask which aspects of MTP you feel are 'slower' or 'less
     easy to use'?

/Mitch

< Note 1074.27 by DYO780::SCHAFER "Brad - DTN 433-2408" >
>    The only gripe that I have is that
>    keystrokes are not assignable to functions (eg, assign ALT C to make
>    the conductor window active.

The Macintosh version *does* have keystrokes for opening most of the
windows. I'm itching to get a Macintosh utility that will define functions
keys for doing various keystroke intensive tasks.

/Mitch

RE: .33,.34

    I like the ESQ sequencer better *generally* because I don't have to
    wait for it to boot, it almost never crashes, and it doesn't waste
    memory.  AND IT'S NOT COPY PROTECTED.  8-( 

    I recorded a song in the ESQ - it took around 10K bytes of memory. The
    same song recorded into MTP (using the same # of tracks) with all a/t &
    controller data stripped STILL consumed over 25K.  This is due
    (probably) to the way that the program implements linked lists as
    tracks.  I'm just guessing here.

    I can also consistently crash the program by pausing the thing in
    mid-stream, then fiddling around in the xport window, clicking quickly
    on things. 

    As for defining keys, I would like to see a facility that would allow
    me to use the keypad much like I would in LSE or EDT.  For example: 

	KEYPAD 0 = Play
	KEYPAD . = Pause
	KEYPAD 6 = Cut,

    and so forth.  Right now, I'm forced to use THEIR key assignments,
    which don't map well into the way I'm used to working with a computer
    keyboard.  I would also like to see a CREATOR-like ability to copy
    sequences from disk to (RAM)disk while the sequencer is playing). 

    Don't get me wrong, Mitch.  For serious editing, I think the thing is
    probably the best sequencer on the market.  The U/I is consistent and
    the functionality is great.  But it's not as easy to write things
    quickly with MTP as it is with an ESQ sequencer - at least not the way
    *I* write music. 

-b

< Note 1074.35 by DYO780::SCHAFER "Brad ... DTN 433-2408" >
            -< No flames - just opinions.  I really *do* like it. >-
       No Flames.

Perhaps my set-up, and 'the way I do quick recording' is different from
your set-up and the way you do things.

>    I like the ESQ sequencer better *generally* because I don't have to
>    wait for it to boot

Perhaps my hard disk gives me faster boot time. Booting MTP for me is quite
fast (about 15 seconds or so), as is file manipulation (5 seconds to open
most files).

>   it almost never crashes

Neither does MTP on the Macintosh, though I don't go out of my way to try to.

>   and it doesn't waste memory.

Again, the hard disk makes this a 'don't care'.

>   AND IT'S NOT COPY PROTECTED.  8-( 

Once again, the hard disk makes the day.


>    I can also consistently crash the program by pausing the thing in
>    mid-stream, then fiddling around in the xport window, clicking quickly
>    on things. 

hmmm, I never use pause. I'll give it a try. I do quick things quickly alot
with no crashes. Maybe it's the ST (Which makes the Mac better in tha respect,
doesn't it?  ;-)

>    As for defining keys, I would like to see a facility that would allow
>    me to use the keypad much like I would in LSE or EDT.
>    Right now, I'm forced to use THEIR key assignments,
>    which don't map well into the way I'm used to working with a computer
>    keyboard. 

Maybe I'm just used to it by now, but I find the key definitions to
be just fine. Cut, copy, paste, and undo are right under my fingertips,
as is a bunch of other things.


>   I would also like to see a CREATOR-like ability to copy
>   sequences from disk to (RAM)disk while the sequencer is playing). 

I guess a hard disk and 1 Meg of memory would eliminate the need for this.

>    But it's not as easy to write things
>    quickly with MTP as it is with an ESQ sequencer - at least not the way
>    *I* write music. 

So I guess it's just a few little things that bother you that I don't see
because of the Mac with hard disk and 1 meg of memory.

(I don't suspect that the way *you* write music is drastically different
from the way *I* write music. I think that what's fast for one person is
probably fast for another person too, once they both get used to it.)

/Mitch

>    I like the ESQ sequencer better *generally* because I don't have to
>    wait for it to boot, it almost never crashes, and it doesn't waste
>    memory.  AND IT'S NOT COPY PROTECTED.  8-( 
    
    I don't have much experience with PC-based sequencers but what little
    I've had has convinced me that I prefer the ESQ-1 sequencer to PC-based
    sequencers.
    
    With PC based sequencers you're forever going between pages, moving
    your hands to-and-from the keyboard and the mouse, moving your eyes to
    and from the keyboard to the screen, flipping thru menus (or sometimes
    MANUALS), getting yourself in and out of modes, figuring out why it
    didn't work, or how to do it, etc.
    
    I can *FLY* on the ESQ-1, which doesn't have 99% of all that cybercrud.
    It never takes me more than about 10 seconds to setup a track and start
    recording it. And what's more is that it let's me do retries (while
    keeping the best take "so far") very easily and VERY quickly.  It never
    seems to introduce any impediments to "getting it right".
    
    Only thing I've ever wished I had a PC-based sequencer for was floppy
    disk storage (which I now have on my SQ-80) and visual step-editing.
    
    Basically, I don't use step editing.  If I can't play the part right,
    I slow the recording tempo down to the point where I can.  If I make
    a mistake, it's usually much easier for me to try another take, than
    try to edit the mistake out (using a PC).
    
    Now, if I wasn't a keyboard player, things would be different and step
    mode would be much more important.
    
    Basically, the value in the ESQ-1 is that it makes it very easy to do
    experiments.  Easy enough so that I don't get discouraged (by having
    to flip thru menus, pull down screens, set modes, etc) from trying.
    
    And it accompanies me to gigs without any extra weight or bulk.
    
    	db

RE: .36

    The ST has 1 Meg of memory.  No, I do NOT have a hard disk, but I would
    certainly like one.  Right now, I don't have the bux.  I'm sure that a
    hard disk would probably solve a great deal of my problems, especially
    in the load boot arena.  But memory and performance once the program is
    up are no big deal - other than I hate to see memory wasted.

    I know, I know - blasted purists ... ;-}

-b

< Note 1074.37 by DREGS::BLICKSTEIN "Yo!" >
    
>    I don't have much experience with PC-based sequencers but what little
>    I've had has convinced me that I prefer the ESQ-1 sequencer to PC-based
>    sequencers.

Master Tracks Pro is no ordinary PC based sequencer. I don't want to
generalize about other PC-based sequencers here. (DIR/TITLE=SEQUENCER
will list topics for discussing general computer vs. sequencer tradeoffs).
    
>    With PC based sequencers you're forever going between pages, moving
>    your hands to-and-from the keyboard and the mouse, moving your eyes to
>    and from the keyboard to the screen, flipping thru menus (or sometimes
>    MANUALS), getting yourself in and out of modes, figuring out why it
>    didn't work, or how to do it, etc.

This is not so with MTP. That's the best part about it. This program is
more like a tape deck with windows more than anything else. If you keep
the monitor next to your keyboard and your computer keyboard and mouse 
under your controller keyboard then there is no distraction in this respect.
I have hardly EVER even opened the manual (even when it was brand new
to me I didn't have to use the manual). EVERYthing is straight forward
and intuitive.
    
>    It never takes me more than about 10 seconds to setup a track and start
>    recording it. And what's more is that it let's me do retries (while
>    keeping the best take "so far") very easily and VERY quickly.  It never
>    seems to introduce any impediments to "getting it right".

hmmm...    If you think that there is some impediment introduced by this
program then you are misinformed. It really is fast and easy. There is no
'track set-up' involved. Simply click on a track and record.
Retries (with 'keeping the best take so far') are, of course, supported
in the form of UNDO (ctrl-z).

Which brings me back to the original question: Is there anything that is
'slower' or 'less easy to do' on MTP than there is on the ESQ-1?

I think not.

(no flames, really. I'm just trying to tell people what this program is like.)

/Mitch

    Let's put it this way.  If I have to move my hands and eyes from the ESQ-1
    to either the mouse, the keyboard or the screen, it's slower.
    
    For re-takes, the elapsed time from the moment I decide "this" take is
    no good to  the moment my hands are poised over the keyboard, ears
    listening  to the click intro is less than a second, and no, there
    aren't any special features designed to make re-takes faster.
    
    I want to emphasize that I view my methods and requirements as somewhat
    peculiar.  I'm not saying that other people would come to the same
    conclusions.
    
    To me, though, it has to be ultra-fast and ultra-easy to encourage 
    experimentation.  I'm lazy, and if I have to be moving constantly
    from the keyboard to the PC I get discouraged.
    
    The key thing is the ease with which I can lay a track down.  I'm sure
    for all other purposes (editing, stringing sequences into songs, etc.), 
    MTP and other PC-based sequencers win handily over the ESQ-1 sequencer,
    but that's not where I spend the majority of my time.
    
    	db
    

    MTP is very easy to record /rerecord /play on.  Just as easy as the
    ESQ.  Hit the space bar to start playing, hit the ENTER key to start
    recording. 

    Where it falls short of the ESQ is in track setup/selection.  I can
    select a track, a patch and a channel by hitting no more than 4
    buttons.  On MTP, I have to change windows, click on a new track, click
    on the channel box, enter a channel (using the ST kybd), hit return,
    click on the patch number, figure out what blasted number I want to
    use, type it in, then hit return.  Takes me almost a minute to get a
    new track properly setup on the ST (and I type around 70 wpm). Took
    about 5-10 seconds on my ESQ.

    MTP would be every bit as fast to use as the ESQ *IF* it allowed you to
    bind keys to functions - for example, instead of clicking your head off
    to mute track 3, why not use ALT-M 3 to mute/unmute a track?  It would
    be easy to make the proper window current.  I honestly think that
    Passport (and most other point & grunt s/w houses) are using the mouse
    TOO much, and not allowing a well-educated user the luxury of
    shortcuts. 

    Sounds all too familiar to me, since I support ALL-IN-1 (not exactly
    point & grunt, but you get the idea).

    Again, I think the utility of MTP makes up for the slower U/I. But you
    will never get a better U/I than the ESQ offers, in my opinion.  And
    until there are touch screens or bindable function keys, I doubt that
    there will be a better computer based U/I than MTP offers.

-b who_sees_both_sides

Well, I don't mean to drag this out (I enjoy talking about this
subject), but...

>    On MTP, I have to change windows, click on a new track, click
>    on the channel box, enter a channel (using the ST kybd), hit return,
>    click on the patch number, figure out what blasted number I want to
>    use, type it in, then hit return.  Takes me almost a minute to get a
>    new track properly setup on the ST (and I type around 70 wpm).

Boy, you sure know how to make it sound like a lifetime. :-)

In my case, I don't do most of what you said on screen.  I use my controller
to pick patches and channels. MTP is nothing more than a recorder. I click
on a track and record. Retries are about a second away: hit space bar (stop)
and return key (start).

Brad, you don't really select patches from the screen, do you?
Why not just use MIDI THRU 0 and select them with your controller?
Same with MIDI xmit channel.

/Mitch

RE: .-1 (I enjoy this, too!)

    Actually, I've tended to use the thing as a kind of a sequencer and
    score sheet and queue card and mumble system.  The one thing I didn't
    like about hardware sequencers was that you could never get enough
    information stored with the sequence about the sequence. 

    For example, it's nice to know that you were playing patch number 5 on
    channel 7 ... but what SGU was on channel 7 at the time?  And what bank
    of patches did you have loaded into the SGU that was on channel 7 at
    the time?  And on it goes ..... 

    So you're really right.  *I* am the reason the thing is slow, because
    of what I demand of it.  If I recorded like you said, then the point is
    definitely moot.

    Interesting aside - try this:  record 4 different tracks.  Make them
    long enough to be "measurable" (hee hee) - like 10 measures or so. Make
    sure that they are on 4 seperate MIDI channels, and that they all
    contain different data.  Check to see how much memory you've used, then
    save the data to a file. 

    Now merge all the tracks into the first.  Check your memory again. Then
    save to another file.  What kind of size difference do you see? I was
    amazed. 

-b

   This has all been very interesting.  As a not so (musical) keyboard
   playing type, who only half the time enters data in real time, half through
   the keyboard in step time, I enjoy MTP and myself would become frustrated
   with a hardware sequencer.  I agree with brad that it is nice to have so
   much data associated with a sequence or a track tht identifies it, etc.

   What I really get frustrated at on the ST version is the slowness of the
   windows and the whole interface.  I change a window and the thing flashes
   (kind of) and it takes too long.  I also wish that all parameters could
   be changed like the "measure" counter on the transport, ie, no dialog
   boxes, just a changeable counter.  The speed of the program is what needs
   to be improved overall, but the layout and intuitiveness of the thing is
   great, much better than that which I saw with Sonus and Steinburg.
   Maybe they could just write the thing in 68000 assembly instead of (most
   likely) C.
   

	CHad


	

    A 68000, like a VAX, is almost a native C engine to start with (OK,
    not quite as much like a VAX, but close.)  I wouldn't expect to
    see much over a factor of 1.5 going from C to MACRO.
    
    Why is the ESQ-1 sequencer so much faster?  Probably because it
    doesn't do anything it doesn't _have_ to do.  It doesn't draw a
    score, it doesn't do windows, it doesn't deal with arbitrary file
    formats, it doesn't have scorecarding, etc.  Not being able to 
    record what SGU was online on what channel doesn't bother me; I
    have a paper notebook (the kind that looks like sheet music but
    no notes there yet) and it works just fine to write the SGU/patch/
    track information right down there.  Sometimes (gasp) I even write
    down the musical notes!  
    
    I just wish it could steptime backwards... and maybe even use the
    SEQ footswitch to step time forwards... and even display the note(s)
    being played on the fluorescent panel.  Other than that, I'm completely
    satisfied with the V3.5 sequencer, and I don't anticipate buying
    anything to replace it for quite a while. 

>< Note 1074.40 by DREGS::BLICKSTEIN "Yo!" >
>                           -< One man's obstacle... >-
>    Let's put it this way.  If I have to move my hands and eyes from the ESQ-1
>    to either the mouse, the keyboard or the screen, it's slower.

Dave, just fyi:  With MTP, if you really wanted to (seeing that your
requirements are sort of unusually strict:-), you can define two or three
unused keys of your controller keyboard to do the tape transport functions.
I don't think you can get much faster retakes than that, as you don't have
to look away from the keyboard at all.

/Mitch

>    A 68000, like a VAX, is almost a native C engine to start with (OK,
>    not quite as much like a VAX, but close.)  I wouldn't expect to
>    see much over a factor of 1.5 going from C to MACRO.
    
 
It would still be much faster than the GEM routines (in C) thatcome with it.
I saw a software blitter that replaced the GEM routines and that was written
in 68000 assm that was like white lightning.  I suspect that the graphics
in MTP are slow because they use the GEM calls, which are slow and in C (as I
understand it).  Other 68000 machines and Atari 68000 assm routines aren't
slow in there graphics.

CHad

RE: .44, .47

    Yes, GEM is a pig.  Perhaps there will be a blitter for the 1040s
    someday (or I may even be able to buy a Mega).  Where'd you see one,
    Chad? 

RE: .46 (xport mapping to keys)

    That's another gripe that I have with MTP.  I have lots of switches and
    controllers on my KX76.  I use ALL of the keys on my keyboard, and
    don't want to sacrifice any of them to xport control.  Knowing my luck,
    I'd be in the middle of a great line and wham! - there goes my
    sequence.

    YOU CAN'T MAP THE XPORT TO ANYTHING BUT NOTE ONS.  Grr.  I'd like to
    use a toggle switch to start/stop the sequencer, but you can't map a
    controller to the XPORT.  Maybe I could map MIDI note 128 to the toggle
    AND to the XPORT (what a kludge). 

    I tried using a MIDI REMOTE START command, but MTP IGNORES all incoming
    XPORT commands unless it's in external mode.  Then I can't tell what
    tempo the thing would be set to - the KX is good enough to send a MIDI
    clock but is too stupid to tell you how many BPM it's running at. I
    called Passport and griped, but the rep was arrogant and basically told
    me I didn't know how hard it was to change.  Right.  I work with
    ALL-IN-1, so I'm brain dead.  Sigh.

    Like Len said - a beauty with a big zit. 

-b

    re .44, .47, .48 - you want a blitter and VLSI graphics support,
    get an Amiga.  No promises of a hardware blitter "someday" (it's
    been at least a year now that it's been promised), the hardware's
    there today and it works.  Amigas are too expensive?  Nope, get
    a 500.  Amigas have no software?  Look again.  Want multitasking?
    Wait for OS/2 or spring for some hack like Multifinder.  Or get
    real multitasking in the Amiga.  Today.  Two years ago, in fact.
    
    And no, I don't use mine for sequencing.  Not with an MC500 in the
    studio.  The Amiga's graphics are too neat to tie it up doing
    sequencing.
    
    len.
    

>RE: .44, .47
>
>    Yes, GEM is a pig.  Perhaps there will be a blitter for the 1040s
>    someday (or I may even be able to buy a Mega).  Where'd you see one,
>    Chad? 


I saw this "software blitter" at a store in Utah.  It  was a commercial
program that replaces the calls to GEM with their own calls in 68000.  They
were fast.  Don't remember what it was called, but next to a mega w/blit
it seemed to be faster.  That was what we tried in the store.  It *claims*
to be faster anyway than the hardware blitter.  You might want to check it
out.  If anyone does, please post a reply of how well it works with MTP.
(and a general review in ATARIST notes).

Chad

    I get resonable performance out of GEM on the ST.  However, you
    must spend an inordinate amount of time understanding how to work
    it, and I suspect that the people that ported MTP didn't want to
    spend that much effort.  They probably spent a great deal of effort
    getting it to run on the ST as is.  (This would be true no matter
    which popular PC they ported it to.)
    
    Calling GEM (AES, in tis case) from C is probably not any slower
    than calling it from machine language.
    
    C can be considerably slower than assembly language, depending upon
    the type of code, but it is probably still fast enough.
    
    Steph
    

    It sounds like you're all running MTP on the ST. I haven't noticed any
    unusual slowness on the Mac.
    
    Also, for those who want some functions bound to keys, there are some
    very nice general purpose macro-making utilities available for the Mac.
    Two that come to mind are Tempo II and QuicKeys. They allow you to
    define all sorts of keyboard and/or mouse operation sequences and then
    bind them to any keys that you want. I expect similar utilities are
    available for the ST.
    
    -Mark

>    Also, for those who want some functions bound to keys, there are some
>    very nice general purpose macro-making utilities available for the Mac.
>    Two that come to mind are Tempo II and QuicKeys. 

I have recently obtained one of these type "desk accessories" (AutoMac) and
 I must say it makes life alot easier. I can now do the things that I do
  regularly with just one or two keystrokes instead of having to pull down
   a menu and type in information. For example, I can transpose a selected
    piece of music
   up or down an octave, or quantize it with just 1 option-key stroke.
  I will be defining similar macros to increase or decrease velocity levels
 by certain percentages. (Defining macros is as simple as selecting a
"record" option, then going through the motions of the function, then
 "stopping" the recording.)

If "too many keystrokes" and "distracting procedures" are one of your
major complaints, then I would recommend getting one of these desk accessories.

At some point in the future, I hope obtain Multi-finder and one or two
librarian/editors to make life even easier.

/Mitch

    There is a pretty nice "generic" librarian available for the ST called
    Omni-Banker ST.  It handles almost any synth (generic part), but is
    smart enough to know about each synth's SYSEX format, and allows
    banks/patches to be dragged back & forth between banks. 

    One of the nicest things about it is that you can actually name patches
    in machines that don't support names (ie all my OB patches could have
    ascii names if the OB supported SYSEX). 

    It can run either standalone or as a desk accessory, and costs $60,
    including postage.  For what it's worth.

-b

	re: .45

	Only 1.5  for  C  to  macro???  You are a pessimist.  I'd
	figure between 2 and 5 to 1 if your macro is half decent.
	C  is  not an efficently defined language and it shows in
	the  code  that C compilers generate.  Also my experience
	with compiler technology outside of DEc and VAX show that
	there  is  a  lot  of  work  that  can be done!

	The DEC  C  compiler  generates  code  that  is about 35%
	slower   then   Bliss32  as  an  example  of  C  language
	definition v.  others.

			BArry
p.s.
	Sorry this is not about MTP...

    If anyone is interested in accurate benchmarks of the VAX compilers
    please refer to the "VAX Performance Summary" (an internal
    publication), ED 26121-46/85 12.
    
    This publication includes the results of VAX compiler benchmarks
    performed under controlled conditions.
    
    	Dave Blickstein
    	Technical Languages coordinator for VAX Performance Summary
    

	Is that  available  online?

		Barry
p.s.
	Does the report disagree with my .55?

I received a description of MTP V3.0 from Passport yesterday.
They want $45 for the upgrade. I think I will be getting the upgrade
sooner or later. It sounds worth it.

The enhancements that I noticed as being useful to me right now or
in the near future are:

     o 32 MIDI output channels. 16 on the modem port, 16 on the printer port.
       A few more effects and I'll be thanking them for this.

     o Can record multiple channels on separate tracks simultaneously.
       As was mentioned in one of the "MIDI Mixing" notes, this would be useful
       for sequencing volume messages from multiple sliders at the same time.

     o Controller Chasing. I'm not quite sure exactly what this is, but I think
       what it does is this: each time you start playing a sequence from
       somewher other than the start of a song, the sequencer will bring all
       of the instruments "up to speed" by sending out all of the program
       change and controller messages from the beginning of the song up to
       the point where you're starting from.

The other enhancements will probably be very useful some day, but not till
I become more wealthy. They include features which help in scoring for film
like sync to SMPTE, display of SMPTE time, Cue lists, automatic tempo
adjustments for hitting Cues, etc.


/Mitch

    Has anyone seen or used the IBM version of MTP yet. I believe it
    has only recently been released. I've never used any other version
    either so I'm only working of publicity stuff to decide if it suits
    my needs. I currently use Texture and find it great for my way of
    composing??? but it can also be very limiting. Any feedback from
    you MTP users before I spend my $495 (Canadian).
    

    If it requires a mouse (I'm assuming that they ported their U/I to the
    PC), then I highly recommend it.  Haven't seen the PC version, but if
    it's anything like the MAC or ST versions, it's worth having (in spite
    of its admittedly minor quirks). 

-b

    
    In my opinion, you owe it to yourself to check out Voyetra's Sequencer
    Plus Mark III (Version 2 is out now) before you buy any other package.
    It doesn't have the flashy icons and stuff but it has loads of features
    that other packages don't have. Very powerful.
    
    Mike D

Version 3.2 has arrived - and with a few nice surprises.
It cost me $50 together with one of my original floppys.    /Mitch

Expected new features:
 o 32 MIDI channels (can't wait to use some of these)
 o Multitrack/multichannel record
 o MIDI continuous controller "chasing"
 o SMPTE sync support
 o Expanded "Markers" window for setting up SMPTE "hits"

Unexpected new features:
 o Can move a complete track "data set" from one track to another with
   just a click and drag. Previously you could move the sequencer data
   very easily from within the Song Editor, but this wouldn't include
   the track  name, channel, init program change, rec/play/solo info
   which appears in  the  Sequencer  window  (now  called  the Track
   Sheet).
 o Can turn off multiple solo or rec tracks at once by holding the
   option key while clicking on any solo or rec indicator.
 o The init program change value dialogue box now accepts values over MIDI.
 o The Metronome click can be specified to play over MIDI instead of
   using the Mac speaker. You specify note number, velocity, and channel
   for both the bar and the beat clicks.
 o Track names now appear in Step Edit and MIDI Data windows.

Also, the program disk comes with 2 or 3 demo sequences, as well as with
     Craig Anderton's "test sequences" (the ones  he  wrote  about  in a
     recent  issue  of  whatever  magazine  he  writes  for).  The  demo
     sequences  are  setup to play with an MT-32 and/or one of  the  PSS
     keyboards.   One of them is a nice loungy arrangement of "Deck  the
     Halls".

    < Note 1074.62 by HPSRAD::NORCROSS "Use the Notes files." >
>                                 -< MTP V3.2 >-
> o The Metronome click can be specified to play over MIDI instead of
>   using the Mac speaker. You specify note number, velocity, and channel
>   for both the bar and the beat clicks.

    Hi, Mitch.  Using a readily-available-from-Radio-Shack(tm) mini
    phone plug-to-RCA-plug cable, I have the MAC click going into a
    channel on my mixer while recording.  For master mixdowns of course
    I don't need the click so I pull that cable out and use the mixer
    channel for music.
    
    karl

    MAC II users note that the click still cannot be heard over the
    internal speakers and that the multi-record mode did not work over
    the printer port, only over the modem port. I called tech support
    on this and theyre looking in to it. 
    

    All you MTP/MAC users beware..DONT use Symantec disk tune up without
    unloading your installed copy. I did and it blew mine away. It didnt
    move the hidden file but must have re-written it because it change
    from a logical length of 512 bytes to 1k. Fortunately Passport have
    agreed to send me a replacement for a measly $5 and are THINKING
    about putting a warning in the manual. How I hate copy protection
    with a passion!  ;^(
    
    Ken    
    

    Now that I'm finally in the land of multi-timbrality I snarfed the demo
    version of MTP V3.0 (Mac) off of the GEnie service.   I like it; it
    would do me a lot of good. 
    
    What's the competition in this space and how does it stack up? Just a
    line saying that mumble is serious competion for MTP will send me off
    to look at mumble.
    
    	Thanks, 
    
    	Eirikur
    
    
    I should dig out back issues of the Mac magazines, but the ZK library
    is shut for a couple of weeks.
    

re: < Note 1074.66 by KALLON::EIRIKUR "Hallgr�msson, CDA Product Manager" >
                       -< How's the competition doing? >-

>    What's the competition in this space and how does it stack up? Just a
>    line saying that mumble is serious competion for MTP will send me off
>    to look at mumble.
    
Eirikur,

I had Performer from Mark of the Unicorn. I found the user interface to be
rather esoteric and unfriendly. I replaced it with Master Tracks Pro after
getting a demo from Mitch Norcross. I was a hard sell, but decided to
switch based upon side-by-side comparison. I've been extremely satisfied with
MTP.

dave    

    RE: last 2 notes.
    
    I second that. I moved from IBM/Texture to a MAC and checked out
    both Performer and MTP and chose MTP. It took a while getting used
    to not seeing numbers (which you can in Performer) but I think the
    move was good. There are a few minor points in MTP that I dont like
    but all in all I can live with them (eg, no internal click on the
    MAC II).
    
    There was a note somewhere that talked about new releases of various
    s/w packages at NAMM including an upgrade to Performer. I dont remember
    the note number or the names of the packages, but if I was making
    the decision today MTP would certainly be on the list and I would
    check out the others too.
    
    Ken
    

I've been playing with the demo version of MTP v3.2 recently, and since it
lacks any documentation, I have a couple questions:

  1)	How do you make it show, and allow you to edit, the note-on velocities
	of individual notes in the "piano roll" display?  There is a display
	of a single note-on/off velocity pair in the upper right hand corner,
	but I couldn't figure out how this was related to the current note,
	or how to change it.

  2)	How do you make it record multiple channels simultaneously onto
	multiple tracks?

Comment:  after working with a music editor that displayed everything in
standard musical notation, I find working with the "piano roll" very
cumbersome.  MTP is a lot more like a recorder than a *music* editor.

    Re: last. To edit individual notes, go to the step editor of the
    appropriate track and double click on the note you want to edit.
    It helps if "AUTO" (in the transport window) is off, dont ask me
    why. A pop up window appears and you can edit the note to your hearts
    content.
    
    To record multiple tracks simultaneously, you have to be connected
    to the modem port. It doesnt seem to work on the printer port. One
    of the menus, I think its "goodies" allows you to select multi record.
    You then have to select record on each of the tracks you want to
    record on, each track will now record on the channel number selected.
    If record is set on a track with channel set to A0, all data will
    go to it.
    
    Hope this helps.
    
    Ken
    

    Both work fine on the ST version, whether AUTO is on or off.

    I might add that the "values" displayed on the Step Edit screen
    indicate the default values (for step entry) and the position of the
    mouse on the roll.  Double clicking on the default velocity allows
    you to specify a new value.

    Oh - I prefer the "roll" to music notation.  Guess it's what you're
    used to. 

-b

    Question about Master Tracks Pro v3.3 (for Macintosh):

    I'm trying to use the SysEx dump/load feature and encountered the
    following problem:  I believe I am using a synth that has no "front
    panel" method for initiating a bulk dump of all the patches (it's a
    Korg PolySix with the MIDI retrofit, if it matters).  In MTP, the SysEx
    Goodies... selection lets me establish a "receive SysEx" file. 
    Unfortunately, this dialog box keeps the Goodies Menu active (i.e., it
    stays white-on-black on the menu bar.  This prevents me from using
    MultiFinder to use MIDIcontrol (or other tool) for sending the PolySix
    the "bulk dump request" message.

    Q: Is there any way in MTP to manually type in the SysEx bulk dump
       request into a sequence?  Then, I could start that sequence playing
       and initiate the SysEx dialog.

    Barring that, does anyone have any other ideas for using MTP as a crude
    Patch Librarian in this situation.  I'm beginning to think I should
    write my own little patch store/load in MIDIbasic, MIDIpascal, or the
    like.

    Any ideas are most welcome.

    Thanks,

    - John -

    I don't know much about the Korg, but you say it has a MIDI
    retrofit..sounds dumb, but does it support a bulk dump utility?
    
    If it does, have you tried it. The next question is how did you
    initiate it? If you did it from something else then maybe you could
    have that attached to MIDI IN on the Korg (or the MAC with THRU
    enabled) and kick it off like that. Just pray that it doesn't need
    handshaking like some of the Roland stuff.
    
    If that doesn't work, maybe you can create a request file with Fedit
    or something like that. I've never tried it but it could possibly
    work.
    
    Ken
    

>>>    I don't know much about the Korg, but you say it has a MIDI
>>>    retrofit..sounds dumb, but does it support a bulk dump utility?
    
    Yup.  I wouldn't have even tried it had I not had the MIDISysEx
    implementation notes in front of em when I tried it.  (I was hoping
    that when I used the MTP SysEx Goodies... menu that there would be a
    field in the dialog box for "request bulk dump message" that would get
    sent out the MIDIport to the unit to start the bulk dump procedure.)
    
>>>    If it does, have you tried it. The next question is how did you
>>>    initiate it? 
    
    Last night, I used the MIDIbasic shareware stuff in RT95:: (and
    Microsoft Basic v2.1) to write a short program that sends the SysEx
    bulk dump request message to see what came back to the Mac's MIDI in. 
    Sure enough, all 3587 bytes (or so) got there.  And the format of those 
    bytes looked correct.
    
    >>> If you did it from something else then maybe you could have that
    >>> attached to MIDI IN on the Korg (or the MAC with THRU enabled) and kick
    >>> it off like that. 
    
    I guess I could try running the Basic program with some built-in time
    delay at the front, then switch over to MTP and start-up the SysEx
    dialog.  If I have time I'll try that tonight.  The problem I was
    having was sending the bulk dump requet message AFTER already being in
    the MTP SysEx dialog.  Obviously, I'll have to run some program BEFORE
    going in to MTP but make sure that program has sufficient delay in it
    that I can get the MTP SysEx file open before the bulk dump starts
    showing up at the MIDI in of the Mac.  Nice idea, thanks!
    
    >>> Just pray that it doesn't need handshaking like some
    >>> of the Roland stuff.
    
    As demonstrated by the simplicity of the Basic program, this isn't the
    case.
    
    >>> If that doesn't work, maybe you can create a request file with Fedit
    >>> or something like that. I've never tried it but it could possibly
    >>> work.
    
    It would probably be safer just to do the whole thing in Basic or
    MIDIPascal (which allegedly can be called from Lightspeed C) than for
    me to subject my Mac to my lack of skill with Fedit.
    
    By the way, is it considered "normal" for a bulk dump to be initiated
    by a sequence of button presses on the unit?  MTP apparently thinks so
    since it gives no way of letting the MTP user initiate the request from
    the program.  Neither the MIDI'd PolySix nor my Kurzweil 1000PX seem to
    have the capability to do a bulk dump from the buttons.  (From the
    operation of the Kurzweil ObjectMover software, however, it could be
    that the 1000PX requires handshaking and makes this a moot point.)
    
    At any rate... Thanks for the ideas, Ken.
    
    - John -

    FWIW, as I recall, the R* S-10 and Y* TX81Z can have bulk dumps
    initiated from button pushes ...
    
    Steve

 I  have  used  the  MTP   SysEx  "Goodie"  to  save  and  restore  FB01
     configurations  -  all saves were initiated  from  the  FB01  front
     panel.  I stopped doing this when  I  decided  to stop futsing with
     front panels.
 
 /Mitch
 

 >       I guess I could try running the Basic program with some built-in time
 >   delay at the front, then switch over to MTP and start-up the SysEx
 >   dialog. 
    
    On reflection, this may be hard to do 'cos I think as soon as the
    Korg recieves the command it will start the bulk dump. Maybe you
    can fool it by sending the command twice so that you have the delay
    of the first dump to get ready, or even fill up the Korgs i/p buffer
    (assuming it has one) so it takes time to get to the bulk dump request.
    
    If you use multifinder this may make it convenient to get into MTP
    once youve started the dump.
    
    Good luck!
    
    Ken
    

    It's time for me to buy something....  Is MTP still copy protected?
    Mac Zone has it for $258.00.
    
    	Eirikur
     

    
    
    Yes, it is.  But they'll supposedly send you a backup when you
    send in the registration card.  I'm still waiting over a month
    now.  $258 is a good price.
    
    Ralph
    
    

    re: -.2 or -.3  (the Basic thing to trigger a bulk dump)
    
    I think what you suggest will work.  The Korg does indeed start the
    dump as soon as the request message is received.  My intention was to
    put a loop (say count from 1 to 10000) BEFORE sending the request. 
    Then, I could say "run", switch to MTP (yes, I'm using Multifinder),
    and be all ready when the Basic program actually sends the message.
    
    By the way, I was able to sucessfully store a program and load it back
    into the PolySix using just Microsoft BASIC v2.1 and the MIDIbasic
    available on rt95:: last night.  Rather than becoming better at Basic,
    I'm thinking of getting Lightspeed C and MIDIpascal and writing a more
    complete patch librarian than possible with MTP.  I'll post any results
    if I go this route.
    
    re: copy protection and the wait for the "backup" disk.
    
    You should get the backup disk eventually.  I thought for sure the
    little registration postcard had gotten lost in the mail.  Just as I
    was thinking about calling, I got the backup disk (v3.4, I think; the
    version I purchased was v3.3) in the mail.  I believe it took 2-3
    months before I got the backup disk.  Patience is a virtue, or so I'm
    told.
    
    - John -

    Just in case you haven't seen my warning in another note...
    
    Dont use Symantec Utilities to unfragment your disk while MTP is
    installed, I did and it did something funny to the MTP hidden file
    so I couldn't use it. UNinstall it first!
    
    Ken
    

It took a long while for my backup disk (atari MTP) to show up.  But the
upgrades I've ordered (and the one relpacement disk I had to order -- my
disk had been eaten by the drive) arrived after about 10 days.  

Chad

Just a bit of useless knowledge:

QUEEN lists Passport MTP as being used in their latest album.

Chad

>QUEEN lists Passport MTP as being used in their latest album.

I can see why they would, Chad. I'm am constantly amazed by how easy to use
and powerful MTP is. At first, I was rather intimidated by all of the features,
but they are so intuitive and easy to use, that I have seldom had to refer to
the manual. I am having a problem with inserting key pressure events for the
EPS though. When I record the sequence live from the EPS, the key pressure
events are there and work fine on playback. If I step enter a note, and then
enter key pressure events, they don't seem to work. I tried entering them at
level 127 so that there was no doubt about them causing enough key pressure.
Maybe my positional timing was off?  Anyone else experienced this problem?

dave

I bought C-Lab Notator on Monday and last night I saved a song I'm working
on from MTP using export --> MIDI file version 1 (multiple tracks) and
then read that MIDI song file into Notator and everything worked great! MTP
seems to have in my case implemented saving the standard files correctly.
(I mention this only to show that it really works).

Chad

Dave, you might want to check out the new MTP V4.0 (they changed the name a bit
I forget what it i now) for the Mac -- it supposedly has event lists where
you can look at the actual midi events in list form and insert them exactly
where you want.  I find the MTP graphic controller entry displays really
neat for doing things to the whole track but a little difficult for single
event entry (placement).  Make sure you are using the correct controller number
(sometimes I forget to set it up in the corner).  I'll try tonight to see what
I am talking about.  MTP controller entry is a time wise thing for the whole
track.  Because none of my SGUs respond to poly-aftertouch I am not sure exactly
how this would be done (one note in a chord for example).  I'll check tonight.

Chad

    Dave - just tried on Atari MTP v2.5 ... there's a real strange problem
    with key pressure.  If you popup a dialog box to select a note to
    "pressure", it *ignores your selection* - even if you hit OK or return! 

    Mine consistently stuck on C-2 ... the only way I got the thing to use
    the right note was to avoid the dialog box and, while the key pressure
    window had input focus, press the note I wanted to mung. Make sure you
    check the PITCH box. 

    An aside - I used an ESQ1 to test it out on ... and I forgot to tell
    the thing to listen to key pressure (MIDI page; ESQ listens to channel
    OR key pressure, but not both - dunno if EPS is similar or not). 

-b

I too looked at it on 2.5B on Atari.  It was wierd like Brad mentioned. I
had forgotten that there was a separate box for poly key-pressure. Let us
know Dave if and how you get it to work.

Chad

       <<< Note 1074.87 by NORGE::CHAD "Ich glaube Ich t�te Ich h�tte" >>>
                -< 2.5B Atari has problems with poly-pressure >-

Chad and Brad,

I encountered another problem with MTP last night. I wanted to get a control
change 70 at the beginning of a track to make the EPS select a different
patch button. I inserted the control change in the appropriate measure using
the control window. It had no effect. I then tried recording the track and
pressing the patch button on the EPS manually. The sequence seems to have
recorded the patch button event because it now plays back the correct patch.
However, the control change 70 for the patch button is nowhere to be found
in the control change window or even the program change window! I made sure
that I was using the correct track and channel number. The EPS reacted
strangely though. Upon playback of all tracks, every instrument (track/channel)
selected the same patch change, and from then on the EPS would not allow
permanent patch selection on any instrument. This is weird!

dave

One thing I've noticed at least on Atari MTP (< 3.0) is that the graphic event
editing features only allow you to add or modify your own data.  They will not
represent data there from recording.  This to me is a limitation not to be
ignored.  I do like drawing the slopes and what not though for volume, pitch 
bend, etc.  Graphically is the way to set those things, not numerically in a 
list.

Chad

I'll play around some more tonight.  Last night RED DAWN on channel 25
distracted me so as to limit the amount of time I could play.

RE: .88

    That's real weird.  Sounds like the "draw-your-own-controllers"
    functions are not the most heavily utilized pieces of MTP ...
    otherwise, a good pre-ship shake and bake would have popped these bugs
    (and that's what I consider them to be) out. 

    Have you tried giving the folks at Passport a call?

-b

         <<< Note 1074.90 by DYO780::SCHAFER "Brad - back in Ohio." >>>
                    -< sounds like it wasn't QA'd too well >-

>    Have you tried giving the folks at Passport a call?

Brad,

I found out from Jeff at Union that Rev 2.4 of the EPS OS has a bug fix
for the patch change problem on the EPS end. There may still be a problem
with the MTP control window too, but I'll wait until I get the new EPS OS
and retry these experiments before I call passport for support.

dave

    Got my upgrade notice for the MAC version last week. It seemed like
    a decent upgrade so I've bitten the bullet. They are now calling
    it PRO-4. I'll review it when I've had chance to try it out (which
    may be a while yet as it seems to take forever to get stuff into
    Canada from the U.S.).
    
    Interesting point was that on the upgrade form, they had two boxes.
    You checked box 1 if you just wanted the upgrade for $99, and box
    2 if you wanted the upgrade and Club Passport membership for $90.
    (this usually costs about $50 or so I believe). I called Passport
    to check that it wasn't a mis-print and they said no, it wasn't.
    
    They also told me that some people actually check box 1!!!!!!
    
    Maybe some people just have a fear of joining *anything*
    
    Ken
    

I think I will be upgrading...             /Mitch

PRO 4 Enhancements:

!---------------------------------
From the upgrade notice:

Track Editor - combines what used to be the separate Track Sheet and Song
Editor windows into  one  window.    "Moveable Panes" sounds like you can
arange the window layout  to  you  liking.    MIDI volume now has its own
column in the Track Editor, previously  only  available  from  within the
MIDI Data Editor window.

Event Editor - You all know what this means.  Has this added feature:  "a
sophisticated filter sorts out and displays the type of data  you need to
see".

Graphic Faders - "...now appear in the Track Editor and most of the other
MIDI Data windows."

Global  Edit  Filters  - "Allows selection of specific types of events to
edit or change globally in selected area."

Note Pad - "Unique text window for quickly finding and reviewing markers,
and Track Sheet information.  Also a good place to make notes to yourself
and others that pertain to  your  sequence.    Notepad info is saved with
file."

Song Play List - "Work between  several files at the same time and create
a playlist of your music for live  performance.".    Looks  like  you can
tell  the  program  to  wait  between songs for  one  of  the  following:
specified number of seconds, specified note, any Macintosh key, specified
controller message.

!---------------------------------------
From the EM NAMM show review:

PRO 4 is an upscale Master Tracks Pro that allows  for most operations in
real time;   selection  of  discontinuous  regions;   criterion specific,
global editing; song play list; and event list editor.

!---------------------------------------------

When I called  Passport  last week, the woman with the wonderful British
     accent said "Pro 4 ships on Friday" (Sept. 1).

Just fyi.

/Mitch

    
    
    No such thing as a British accent !
    
    ask Alex Bain !
    
    					Paul.
    
    					Eeeh by gumm.

    Better to ask the people who have to speak to Alex Bain!
    
    Actually, I still have difficulty in making myself understood in
    parts of deepest Reading, whilst my Scots friends all think I've
    become Anglicised.
    
    All I need is some time in the States - then everyone will be really
    confused!
    
    Alex
    

re: .96

I'll second that

;-)

Chad

who_got_a_call_from_him

Well, I finally got my copy of Pro 4 and it looks pretty good. The biggest 
surprise was finding out that Passport want $10 FOR A BACKUP DISC which they 
had previously sent free on registration...what a nerve ;-(

All in all the upgrade was probably worth it and here is a quick summary of 
the changes I've found so far. There are others but I haven't got around to 
checking them out yet:

-You can now specify a start volume level for each track in the song window 
using their nifty new slider pop up window without having to go through the 
controller window. This only works though if you have a channel selected, as 
without one it doesn't know which channel to send out the command. 

-Previously in the step editor window if you wanted to change tracks, you had 
to know which track you wanted to go to, for example if you'd named track 6 as 
piano, you had to know which track piano was on as you changed in the step 
edit mode because there was no way of knowing until you actually clicked o.k. 
(without referring to the song sheet)
    Now, with the slider entry, you can see track/name  as you change tracks.

-Also in the step edit window, you can now select a range for editing that is 
both horizontally and vertically constrained (time and note range) instead of 
just time.

-They've now joined the Song Sheet and the Song Editor windows into one window 
with moveable panes. This is nice as your track names always line up with the 
song data so no more inadvertant deleting of the wrong track.

-I really thought I needed the note list window so that I could see and edit 
all those numbers. It looks flexible but now I'm not sure just how much I do 
need it.

-There is now a notepad window (under the Goodies Menu I think) so you can 
write little notes to yourself. These are saved with the song.

-They've added a more sophisticated edit filter. I haven't tried it yet as my 
editing is usually simple.

I wish they'd do something about the clumsy way of selecting 
pointer/pencil/eraser in the step edit windows and put an UNDO command for 
when you erasee thhe wrong note. Meanwhile I use Quickeys to short cut all 
that pointing and clicking.

I'd be glad to answer anny questions on the upgrade.

Ken
   

$10 has always been their policy for backup disks for an *upgrade*.  Buying it
off the shelf and registering gives you the free backup disk.

Chad

    Oh, so what they're essentially saying is that the upgrade costs
    you $10 more than we've advertised *if* you want to maintain the
    same level of security you had previously..who can live with one
    disk!! I get nervous each time I touch it. Their copy protection
    is good, copy II MAC can't make a dent..anyone had any success?
    
    Ken
    

    and 4 of us have tried!!

    They do something with the home block to screw it up.  On the Atari,
    they use only SS disks, but actually *read* off the 2nd side (track
    76).  If you have a disk that goes south, you can't reformat and use
    it.  It is forever corrupt. 

    Similar to the Mac?

-b

    re:-1 don't know Brad. All I know is they allow me two installs
    and then thats it. My last version got swiped when I optimised the
    hard drive because of a hidden file they write on it. I complained
    bitterly to Passport and I'm now glad to see they have a warning
    in the manual on this.
    
    I think they use DS disks on the MAC so at least I know that if
    it goes belly up, I'll at least have a disk I can use to write nasty
    letters to Passport....some consolation.
    
    Ken
    

Brad, what you describe is impossible for the following reasons.

Users with only a single sided drive *can't* read side 2 for verification at
all!  There is not a head on that side.  A scheme like that might be
possible is the users had ds drives and they formatted the disks single sided.
I used to use MTP with a ss drive however so that ain't it.

Chad

    Hmmm.  Well, there's *something* funny about track 76 ... and ProCopy
    sez it's something having to do with track 76 *B*.  Either way, it's
    bloody strange.
    
-b

Received my upgrade last night.

----------
I like:

The moveable window panes.

The Notepad - being able to 'get  the  markers  text'  and 'get the track
list text' is nice.  We'll see if I ever use it though.

Step edit horizontal/vertical selection is nice.


----------
I'm happy with, but have some complaints about:

The sliders - when  you  grab the slider with the mouse, move it, and let
go, it automatically 'accepts' the  value  and puts the dialogue away.  I
don't think it should work that way.

The Song Playlist - should be able to play from song to song (through the
list) without having to be stuck in the Song Playlist dialogue.

I am  now able to consistently crash the Mac by getting into my "Template
Song" and then  quitting  without  having  made  any  changes,  and  then
selecting the "Special" menu of the Finder.   This  may be related to Pro
4, or it may be related to one of  the many other changes I have recently
made to my Mac system.


-----------
More comments later.

/Mitch

>Note 1074.98           
>TROA01::HITCHMOUGH     
>I wish they'd do something about the clumsy way of selecting 
>pointer/pencil/eraser in the step edit windows 

Hi Ken. What's so clumsy about clicking on an icon?

>and put an UNDO command for 
>when you erasee thhe wrong note. 

Definitely agree to this one.

/Mitch

 >   I am  now able to consistently crash the Mac
  
    Yeh..I noticed something like that too. I haven't investigated,
    but a couple of times after exiting from Pro4, the MAC II locked
    up and I had to reboot. The manual says something about a conflict
    with an INIT (I think it was PYRO), I'll check it out next time.
    
    Mitch, when I said clumsy step editing with the mouse I meant the
    fact that I hate going back and forth between pencil, eraser and
    pointer. I usually enter or edit only a few notes this way, usually
    spread over an area and find myself entering notes when I wanted
    to use the pointer or spending more time just clicking on the Icons.
    It would have been nice to hold a function key to change the pointer
    type and default to the normal pointer when you let go...but that's
    just my preference.
    
    What I've done with Quickeys is that if I hit option down arrow,
    it selects the pencil tool, clicks to insert a note at the current
    pointer location and then re-selects the arrow pointer. To erase
    a note at the current location I just use another combo. This
    way I know that I'm always in the arrow pointer mode and can do
    little damage to my sequence.                          
    
    Ken
    

    I found a little "undocumented feature" (atleast I cant find it
    in the manual) with my Pro-4 that other users, if there are any
    would be interested in. I'm using the back up disk they sent me
    and not the original so I dont know if it's a change since they
    released Pro-4:
    
    The manual says that there is an option drag capability when doing
    step editing of notes. This allows you to use the cross-hairs to
    drag a copy of a note. What I found with mine is that if you option
    drag by putting the cross-hairs in the first half of the note, this
    works as stated. If, however, you have  them in the last half
    of the note, option dragging allows you to drag the end of the note
    only, effectively changing the note length...a useful feature that
    should have been there before. Maybe it was..I just didnt notice!!
    
    Ken
    

Thanks.  I will also try this next time I power up.

Gotta be careful, though, to make  sure  you're not putting a copy of the
note on top of the one that  was  already there.  This has happened to me
alot.

/Mitch

ps.  My Mac SE consistently crashes whenever  I open a menu from the menu
bar after exiting PRO 4 - So I can  never exit Pro 4 then do other things
without  rebooting  (solution:    don't exit Pro 4, just slip  out  under
MultiFinder).

>    Gotta be careful, though, to make  sure  you're not putting a copy of the
>note on top of the one that  was  already there.  This has happened to me
>alot.
 
    I know what you mean, but no, this really does stretch the note.
    There should be a way to disable the addition of extra notes, because
    once youve done it, its hard to find.
    
>ps.  My Mac SE consistently crashes whenever  I open a menu from the menu
>bar after exiting PRO 4 - So I can  never exit Pro 4 then do other things
>without  rebooting  (solution:    don't exit Pro 4, just slip  out  under
>MultiFinder).
 
    I don't use multifinder, but my original Pro4 also crashed on a
    regular basis. The version I'm using now is the one they sent me
    as backup (for an extra $10 ;-} and it doesn't crash anymore. I
    don't know if the original did the stretchy thing.
    
    Ken
       

There's a lot of info in here about the MasterTracks, but has anyone tried the 
MasterTracks Junior software? I just picked up an Atari 520ST this weekend, 
and I'm ready to jump headfirst into MIDI (silly me!). Since the MTP is so 
highly recommended, but out of my price range, I was wondering about the Junior 
version of it.

BTW, I believe they run for about $95 for the MTP Junior.

thanx,
Alan S.

I don't have any experience with the Jr program, but just looking at the
     pictures in the ads, it seems to have the same basic windows as the
     earlier versions of MTP,  which  is probably sufficient for getting
     started.  It probably just  as  intuitive and easy to use, but with
     some features disabled. Check the upgrade paths/costs.

/Mitch

I just received my PRO4 backup disk in the mail today.  They gave me V4.0.9.
I was pleasantly surprised to find out that they are no longer
copy-protecting the software.  From the description in the release notes, it
sounds as though it is a trial situation, revokable at their discretion.

Jim

    Do they have PRO4 ported to the ST yet?

    I'm getting tired of MTP's limitations (and screwy window
    implementation; it's clear that these folks aren't GEM heavies). 

-b

    Brad, I'm not sure if its been ported yet but there is not a tremendous
    difference between MTP and Pro 4. There are some nice add ons like
    pop up sliders for data entry and a change filter. The only window
    implementation change that I've noticed is the joining of the two
    song windows (or whatever they're called). This has some advantages
    but still leaves the same messy windows all over the screen.
    
    BTW, I mentioned in an early note about an undocumented feature
    when editing individual notes in a track. I said that if you hold
    the command key down while using the pencil, you can place the pointer
    in the second have of the note and drag the end of the note forwards
    or backwards in time. I was wrong in that you don't need to fold
    the ccmd key down. Theres a 'gotcha in that if the note is small
    and you try and drag it backwards with the pencil, you can mistakenly
    grab it by the second have and make it dissappear up its own as*!!
    
    Ken
    

    re:-1
    for fold read hold, for have read half.
    
    My speling is aktualy kwite gud most of the tyme!
    
    Kenn
    

I'm interested in generating musical scores based on PRO4 sequences.

I downloaded the Notator II demo (also from Passport) and played around a
little, but was unable to load in a PRO4 file.  Is there any interface
between the two programs?

I would think that both programs should support standard MIDI files.

Jim

    I have run into a memory problem w/MTP. Has anyone had this problem?
    Can you give advice?
    
    I am running MTP on an AT equivalent with 1 meg of memory (Actually
    640k is all that is available.)
    
    I have a .MIDI file that I want to convert into MTP format but I run
    out of memory. The .MIDI file is about 70k, I have 210k of memory
    available according to the MTP memory window. When I attempt to "import
    MIDI file" it cranks away on the file converting it into measures for a
    while, then quits and gives me an "out of memory" error.
    
    What gives? I was able to successfully convert a smaller file (21k
    converted to 64k .MTP file) How much memory do I need to convert these
    files?
    
    I have stripped all extra programs from my AUTOEXEC.BAT file to free up
    the maximum memory. I have edited the CONFIG.SYS file to put in the
    minimum number of files and buffers. By doing all this I was able to
    have MTP show a maximum of 220k available memory.
    
    In addition I have eliminated all extra windows from the MTP display
    except for the transport and memory windows.
    
    * Is there another way to free up more memory that I haven't tried?
    * Is there a way to have MTP recongize the additional 360k of higher
    	memory?
    * Is there a way to reconfigure MTP to free up more memory?
    * Is there a way to edit a .MIDI format file to split it into smaller
    	chunks?
    
    
    	help,
    	Mark
    

    
    
    I have just aquired a PC compatible/portable which does not have any
    expansion space. Is their a midi-interface that plugs into the serial
    port as on the amiga. If so which programs is it compatible with ?
    
    If not I'll just have to use it for work. I couldn't talk them into a
    STACY.
    
    				Paul.
    

    re: .119
    
    I don't know if this makes sense, but..
    
    you say you have 210k memory left, right?
    
    you say that a 21k midifile converted to a 64k .MTP file, o.k?
    
    so     64k .MTP       =    x .MTP
           -------             ------
          21k midifile        70k midifile  
    
    therefore x =213k .MTP, which is bigger than your 210k available
    memory.
    
    There's probably not a 1 to 1 ratio, but this may be why you run
    out during the conversion as MTP may allocate extra storage during
    the conversion process.
    
    Ken            
    
    

    Being very familiar with the MIDI File format, I can state that it is
    very compact and optimized for efficient storage on disk.  It is not in
    a format that would be very convenient for what sequencers need to do
    internally.   If a sequencer's internal representation was the same as
    what is used in MIDI files, then you would find most editing operations
    to be very slow.   The standard space/time tradeoff.

I've received  my  backup copy of PRO 4.  I think it is version 4.1.  One
new feature not mentioned  here  yet  is  the ability to save and restore
Song Playlists.  I haven't  tried  it  yet,  but  I am looking forward to
using it.

One far-fetched dreamer of a wishlist item that I dreamt of the other day
would  be  the  ability  to find a song file which contains a  particular
melody  by  playing  the melody.  I must have about 100 songs (pieces  of
songs)  saved  off  in  files, most with contrived names that I can never
relate to the melodies which they contain. ...just a thought.

/Mitch

re: the problem I brought up earlier.

    I called Passport and talked to Kent. (BTW *very* *very* considerate
    and helpful!)

    It seems that I got an older version of MTP (rev 3.1.5, thank you Sam
    Ash! >:-{) that has problems importing .MIDI files. Once they get my
    registration card they (Passport Designs) will be sending me a backup
    disk with the latest version (rev 5.5). My problems should go away
    then.

    FWIW they are working on a way to put the MTP appliction into the
    extended memory (above 640k). The problem is not the '286 processor,
    but the DOS. This is, apparently, quite the gnarly problem. Kent said
    that they had kluged together something that looked promising, but that
    it was far too unstable to ship to customers yet.

    microSoft Windows users have an option to edit their CONFIG.SYS file by
    adding a line: DEVICE = HIGHMEM.SYS. This will put many of the files
    needed into the higher memory. Of course there is a bit of a "catch 22"
    here, since if you have Windows you are already using much more memory
    than DOS...

    Kent explained that in general a .MIDI file will expand to about twice
    its size when imported and converted to an .MTP format. Older revs of
    the application are limited by the 64k buffer size, in other words, you
    can't import any files larger than 64k.

    Hopefully I will receive my backup/new rev disk in a week or so. I'll
    let you know if the problem is gone or not.

	Mark

       Hello friends,

       Is there anyone who knows the facsimile number of Passport Designs,Inc?
       I am not good at speaking English in real-time, so I would like to try
       to ask some questions by it.
       
       Reply, a bit of information, and suggestion are welcomed.

       yo ro shi ku (Regards)

       Fukuno.

    Why don't you try asking your question here? There are several users
    who may be able to answer.
    
    I dont have the number handy, but I'll look in the docs tonight
    and post it if there is one.
    
    Ken
    

    re:-2
    
    No fax in dox.
    
    You probably have the phone number already but here itis again.
    
    Passport Designs
    625 Miramontes Street
    Half Moon Bay, CA 94019
    
    (415) 726 0280
    
    Ken
    

    re:-2

    The question that I wanted to ask is;

    * I want to know whether I have been registered user or not.
      
      I purchased MTP4.1 and ENCORE1.2 in February 1990, and I sent user
      registration cards by air mail at once. Though, no response has come
      as yet.                                 

    I thought It was only a problem related between Passport and me, but 

    I think It is a good way to discuss about this problem now.

    Thanks,

    Fukuno

    To my knowledge, they dont aknowledge receipt of registration unless
    either: 
    	-You ordered something else when you registered (like a backup
    	disk)
    or	-They have something to sell you, like an upgrade etc.
    
    Just to check if you're concerned, could probably be done by letter,
    (unless of course you have the wrong address in which case they
    won't aknowledge that either!!! ;-)
    
    Ken
    

    Could someone tell me if this is legal:
    
    I am a registered owner of Pro 4. I sent in the extra bucks for
    the backup disk and they returned a slightly higher version wchich
    is the one I'm using. This was just before the copy protection was
    removed.
    
    I have now lost one of my installs due to a faulty disk and am running
    on the last install of the backup. I dont want to revert to the
    original as the backup has some extra features and I dont want to
    pay Passports price for a spare disk.
    
    The question is, as a registered user, can I find someone who has
    the non protected version and get a copy for myself?. I've already
    payed out over $450 (Can) for this and dont feel I should pay another
    $50 or so just because Passport decided to use some ridiculous
    protection scheme.
    
    Any thoughts?
    
    Ken
    

Just call them and tell them you want another disk and send in your older
disk.  Tell them you will pay them $10.  (that is what it cost when I
needed a new disk (ST MTP).  The lady on the phone said $10.  I sent a letter 
and $10 and I got my disk.  There was a little note that the regular price was
$35 but they sent it to me anyway :-).

You could also call them up and complain and tell them you want a new disk
and that you are not going to pay $35.00.

Chad

    >>> Could someone tell me if this is legal:
    >>>
    >>> I am a registered owner of Pro 4...
    
    I'm not even going to try to answer whether it's legal or not, but I
    can tell you the following...
    
    1.	I upgraded from Master Tracks Pro to Pro 4 and took the option of
    	joining Club Passport for a year (since the upgrade fee with the
    	club membership was cheaper(!) than the upgrade alone).
    
    2.	Due to being a member of Club Passport, I got the unprotected
    	version of Pro4 for $5-10 US (including postage).  Of course, if
    	you're not a "Club" member, the upgrade is a bit higher but I don't
    	think it's $50 (US or Can).
    
    3.	I'd call up Passport and speak to them.  Once they know you're a
    	registered owner, I'm sure they'll try to help.  In fact, I'm
    	pretty sure that their Club Passport News said that the upgrade to
    	Pro 4 v4.21 (or 4.12 or something) was $10 but the person I spoke
    	with at Passport said "send $5" and it worked.
    
    4.	Also, I believe from the documentation of the "unprotected
    	version", that there are more changes than just removing the copy
    	protection.  At least, there were some new features from my
    	previous version.
    
    - John -

    Thanks for the tips. I'm going to phone and complain loudly and
    not pay more than $10.
    
    I'll feel much better when I have an unprotected version. The protected
    version makes me nervous everytime I do something different with
    my MAC.
    
    BTW Chad, I think you asked about MIDI interfaces in another note?
    I have the Passport. Very basic, I paid about $170 Canadian. Theres
    probably about $20 worth of parts. Wish I'd gone for one with at
    least tape sync!
    
    Ken
    

	Since there isn't a separate note about Encore, I'll ask my question
	here:  

	Encore is said to 'allow' nested repeat structures and multiple 
	endings.  Does anyone know if, during playback and later when 
	when saving to a standard MIDI file (or Passport-specific MIDI 
	file), Encore is able to *interpret* these 'signs' to create 
	duplicate MIDI events in the song?  Is Finale capable of such 
	things?  Is any program capable of doing this?
	
	This is one aspect of Notator on the Atari that is driving me nuts
	and I'm willing to make the 'big switch' if I can find a scoring
	program on the Mac that does this.

	Also, if one does any editing in Pro4 after first creating the file
	in Encore (and then one goes back to Encore), do the repeat 
	structures stay intact?

	Thanks,
	Dan

	

    re: nested repeats, encore, finale...
    
    ummm, from memory I seem to recall that Finale takes the notation
    (repeats et al) and turns that into a standard MIDI file that is
    "linear" (no repeats). So if you had ending 1, ending 2, end-of-song,
    then finale would display 3 meas, end 1 meas, end 2 meas, dbl bar.
    
    The MIDI file would have 8 measures though (3, end1, 3, end2).
    
    I have yet to try reading in a MIDI file and seeing if Finale is
    smart enough to figure out endings -- I think you need to manually
    tell it that, and delete the measures. In fact, I do not think any
    program can take a standard MIDI file and reconstruct the repeats
    etc. since I thought MIDI files were mostly just note information,
    not display information (wouldn't it be nice if I was wrong??!!)
    
    Now that I wrote all that about Finale writing out linear MIDI files,
    I'll have to go check it out (next week).
    
    As a slight change of topic, I have had no problem with Finale when
    I construct the notation (either by playing it in, or otherwise),
    and have it play back. I'm not terribly sophisticated, so I do not
    drive Finale too hard. Repeats work, endings work (as you might
    expect them to after paying all that money.... :-)
    
    Bruce Evans

re: my own question about Encore,

I checked on Encore, and alas, any repeat signs are purely graphical in nature
and don't translate into a correct rendition in the standard MIDI file.  This is
the way it is (presently) in Notator.

re: Bruce,

I wasn't sure if Finale could do this - I'm glad to hear that it can, but after
doing a bit more thinking, I'll probably stick with Notator because, to my
knowledge, it's one of very few programs that actually has *both* an excellent
sequencer and a scoring utility at once (and one can look at the event list and
the musical notation on the same screen at once - I'm not into piano rolls :^).
    
>    I have yet to try reading in a MIDI file and seeing if Finale is
>    smart enough to figure out endings -- I think you need to manually
>    tell it that, and delete the measures. In fact, I do not think any
>    program can take a standard MIDI file and reconstruct the repeats
>    etc. since I thought MIDI files were mostly just note information,
>    not display information (wouldn't it be nice if I was wrong??!!)
 
Yeah, I wouldn't think that it would be *that* smart (though maybe someday).
I'd guess that it would require *much* more overhead to be able to figure out
a long song with multiple verses.  At least I know now that it goes one way 
(notation translated into a correct MIDI file).  This is all I was really 
interested in at the present time anyway (so I wouldn't have to have multiple 
files for the same song - one for notation, another for the actual sequence).
My guess (hope?) is that Notator will someday soon incorporate this feature.
After all, they're only on v2.2 (v3.0 to be released soon - can't wait to see
what's in it!).

Thanks for the info!
Dan

    I just noticed that when I save Pro 4 sequences on my Macintosh that
    the saved file has the "proper" (Pro 4) icon but its file type is
    plain, old "document".  Thus, when I double-click the sequence file
    icon, I get the "application not found/busy" dialog box.
    
    When I open the sequence from within Pro 4, everything works fine. 
    It's just a nuisance to have to open Pro 4 first.  I'm almost certain
    that the copy-protected version of Pro 4 gave me the behavior.   Is
    anyone else able to double-click on their sequences and open them using
    the UNprotected Pro 4?
    
    By the way, I using Master Tracks Pro v4.1.2 (the unprotected version)
    running on my Mac SE using system 6.0.4 (I think).
    
    Thanks.
    
    - John -

    Try rebuilding the desktop. I vaguely remember having a similar
    problem.
    
    (hold down cmd/option during boot up)
    
    Ken
    

Sometimes when I've unstuffed stuff it shows up like that.  I do a get info
on the item and it shows up correctly from the unstuffing.

Chad

    FWIW, Passport has dropped copy-protection on their MTP/PRO4 line.  The
    ST version is not protected as of v3.5.
    
    According to a tech at Passport, there is also a new sequencer in the
    works - a complete rewrite/redesign, not just another generation of the
    MTP line.  I'll be interested to see what they come up with.
    
+b

    re: a few notes back.
    
    Well, it did it again. My MAC ate my second install of PRO 4.06.
    There was no reason, the hidden file is still there and unmodified
    since the insstall date, it just comes up with "Unauthorised copy".
    
    I'm now down to using the master disk.
    
    Some advice given previously suggested that I call and complain
    heavily to avoid paying Passports replacement cost, well I called...
    
    However i did not complain, I ended up talking to a tech support
    guy called Kent, I explained the problem and asked what he would
    suggest. "No problem" he said. He just took my club passport number
    and said he'd ship me out a copy of the latest unproteccted version
    at NO COST!!!
    
    Now that's service...(although I wonder what would have happened
    if I hadn't been a member?)
    
    Ken
    

    Ken, a good bitwise sector floppy copy program might cover your &$$
    .. what if they go out of business ?
    
    I've got multiple copies of my Performer key diskette.
    
    karl

    >>>               <<< Note 1074.138 by TROA01::HITCHMOUGH >>>
    >>>                         -< Rebuild desktop? >-
    >>>
    >>> Try rebuilding the desktop. I vaguely remember having a similar
    >>> problem.
    >>> (hold down cmd/option during boot up)
    
    Thanks for the idea.  I tried this last night and it worked.  Now the
    "Get Info" says Pro 4 v4.1.2 document or whatever and I can launch
    with a double-click.  I really appreciate all the help!
    
    - John -

   >  Ken, a good bitwise sector floppy copy program might cover your &$$
   > .. what if they go out of business ?
    
   > I've got multiple copies of my Performer key diskette.
    
    Yeh Karl,..that was my first thought when I received my first version.
    My bits aren't that copyable though. I tried the latest and greatest
    diskcopy (7.something) without any luck. It just wouldn't break
    on the MAC (it must be different on the Amiga).
    
    Now that they're shipping me the non copy protected version though, you
    can be sure I will make SEVERAL copies (for my own protection of
    course). 
    
    Ken
                            
    
    

I wonder if the analog disk copier attachment for the Atari ST ("Blitz")
would copy a protected Macintosh disk.  I bet it would...

You hook up the second floppy drive to the printer port with a funny
cable (they give you schematics so you can make it yourself), and connect
a data out signal from the first drive to the data in of the second. 
The program spins the disks and moves the heads in synchronization, and
*poof*, an analog copy of just about anything.

    ...and people thought I was crazy when I claimed that any program
    that was copy-protected was too expensive a program for me...
    
    A program gets too expensive for me when it starts costing me time...
    and I won't trust _any_ copy program not to fritz on me in a live 
    situation.  Software failure from act-of-nature is one thing, but
    software failure DELIBERATELY INDUCED by the manufacturer of the
    software is just out of bounds.
    
    	-Bill

     
     >Software failure from act-of-nature is one thing, but
     >software failure DELIBERATELY INDUCED by the manufacturer of the
     >software is just out of bounds.
     
    Copy protection is a real pain in the butt and it has cost me time
    and money on the Passport products. 
    I can't see though that any manufacturer would deliberately
    induce failure, they just wouldn't last long as manufacturers.
    
    Ken
              

    
    The problem arises when the copy-protect trigger is inadvertently
    activated.  Because the triggering event may be accidental (and
    would not impede the software execution except that it triggered
    copy-protection abort) I consider that a deliberately induced
    weakness/malfunction/failure mode in the software.
    
    Software is buggy enough without some hacker getting "cute" about
    how to detect copy-protect violation.
    
    	-Bill        

    
    
    I have a demo version of MT 3.2 on my Atari 520 ST but I have no
    Manual for it.
    
    Does anybody know if Passport would sell me just the manual and
    for what price and there is no Passport rep. on this land of mine?
    
    

    I doubt very much that Passport would sell you justthe manual if
    you are not a registered owner of the product. The demo version
    is just that..a demo (albeit a little different from Pro 4). You
    can really get a good feel of the product by experimentation and
    if there are any areas where you need more help I'm sure the answer
    will be available in this notesfile.
    
    BTW, what is "this land of mine"?
    
    Ken
    

    
    A typing error. I meant "as there is no Passport representative
    in this country", country being ... Portugal.
    
    Thanks anyway for your answer. I'm sure I'll use this notesfile
    for any questions I have.
    
    J. Oliveira 

I got a mailing yesterday from Passport announcing PRO V4.5, which adds Apple
MIDI Manager support (finally!) and other new features.

Here's some of the info from the mailing:

New Recording Features
o Three new special Record Modes
o Overdub Record Mode allows you to record on to an existing track without
  erasing the existing data.
o Looped Record repeats the looped section, replacing the last pass with the
  current pass each time around.
o Looped Overdub Mode repeats the looped section and plays the last while
  adding (mixing/overdub) the current pass each time around.

New Performance Features
o User programmable device name tables for choosing instruments.  Preset
  pallette includes most popular devices and user can add to or customize
  configured devices.
o On screen Volume sliders can be used in real time to set volume levels.
o Use the Sysex Librarian on 32 different channels.
o Reset a Tempo offset to equal the actual tempo map by clicking in the
  "quarter note equals 120" field in the conductor window.

New MIDI Manager Support
o Support of Apple's MIDI Manager makes Pro 4 compatible with a growing
  number of Macintosh MIDI applications, including Passport's HyperMusic MIDI
  Player, Sound Exciter and Clicktracks Audio for Video timing software.  MIDI
  Manager creates a network type of environment, allowing easy interaction with
  other compatible programs and hardware.  MIDI Manager allows Pro 4.5 to play
  in the background while using other MIDI Manager applications.

New Editing Features
o Pitch Bend Range has been added to the change menu making it easier to
  adapt a melodic line from one synth module to another.

User Registration
o Pro 4 is one of the only professional Macintosh MIDI sequencers that is not
  copy protected.  A new User Registration field has been added for
  personalizing and protecting the rights of registered users as well as
  discouraging software piracy.

Requirements
o Macintosh Plus or greater, 2 MB highly recommended.
o MIDI interface.

Upgrade prices from Pro 4 are:
	$99 for PRO 4.5
	$90 for PRO 4.5 with Club Passport membership
	$45 for PRO 4.5 (current Club members)

Upgrade prices from Master Tracks Pro V3:
	$150 for PRO 4.5
	$190 for PRO 4.5 with Club Passport membership
	$75 for PRO 4.5 (current Club members)

Offer expires April 30, 1991.