Conference napalm::commusic_v1

    
    Re: price
    
    A friend of mine who works in the same building Kurzweil is in is
    buddies with one of their engineers.  He got a private demo and
    was very impressed (he hasa degree in electronic music, so that
    says something).  He told me it was going to sell for $2500.
    
    

I talked to Carrie Anderson at Kurzweil (893-5900) and she gave me the
following info about the PX-1000:

suggested retail price: $2395.00

local dealers: LaSalle, Boston, 536-0066
               Daddy's, Boston, 247-0909

features: New VLSI technology developed by Larry Bodony (my old boss)
          24 voices
          120 presets
          same basic samples as the 250, no sampling option
          11 waveforms for synthesis
          usual effects such as chorus, tremolo, vibrato, etc.
          up to 4 layers or splits
          object mover software available for Macintosh in Jan.
          *VERY* sophisticated MIDI implementation, more details in the mail

There will be a flyer in the Jan. issue of keyboard magazine.              

Dave

ps. This sounds like the instrument we should have produced first in order
    to generate a positive cash flow!

    The place : New England Life Hall, Boston
    The Time : 16 December 1987 7:30pm
    The Event: Boston Computer Society Monthly meeting
    The Speaker: Ramond Kursweil
    His Subject: The introduction of several new high tech products
    		 including the new 1000 series music systems.
    
    The 1000 series includes 5 (or 6 depending how you count) different
    systems.   There are 4 rack mount systems and one (or two) freestanding
    keyboards.  The systems are:
    
    1000 PX - Professional Expander - Rack mount version of the keyboard
    unit.  Contains 120 presets including grand pianos, electric pianos,
    electric organs, string sections, choirs, clarinet, vibes, trumpet,
    acoustic bass, baritone horn, 11 digital waveforms.  24 channels
    
    1000 SX - String Expander - 99 String presets. 20 channels
    
    1000 HX - Horn Expander - 75 Horn presets, horns and sax, 20 channels
    
    1000 GX - Guitar Expander - 100 Guitar presets.  Acoustic and electric.
    20 channels
    
    K1000 - Keyboard version of the 1000 PX - 115 presets, 76 velocity
    sensitive lead-weighted plastic keys. 24 channels.  About 48"x14"x5"
    55 pounds.  This keyboard comes in two versions, one is the home
    version that includes speakers and is missing the programming features.
    The second is the pro version that includes the programming features
    but lacks the amp.
    
    The prices run from $1995 for the cheapest rack mount to $2499 for
    the K1000's.  I asked if the company was prepared to build these
    in large quantities.  The rep seemed to think they were.  Someone
    from one of the local music stores  mentioned that he had 600 on
    back order.
    
    One feature that caught my eye, dynamic voice allocation.  The voices
    will be assigned to channels on an as needed basis, if you need
    to run 4 presets on 4 different midi channels and you go beyond 6
    notes on one channel, voices will be borrowed from other channels
    for the new notes.
    
    To my untrained ear they sounded great.  I had to remind myself
    that some of the layered stuff was not being done with a sequencer.
    
    I have a copy of the flier.  Send mail if you want a photocopy,
    or drop by my cube at pole P9 on the second floor in you are in
    MRO1.
    
				MJC    

>1000 PX - Professional Expander - Rack mount version of the keyboard
>unit.  Contains 120 presets including grand pianos, electric pianos,
>electric organs, string sections, choirs, clarinet, vibes, trumpet,
>acoustic bass, baritone horn, 11 digital waveforms.  24 channels

    I WANT one ! $2495.. it's actually a 24-'voice' system, responding
    to all 16 MIDI channels. but I still want one.. played one at lenght
    three weeks ago. sigh.
    
    k�    

    
    	I don't get it... you want to sound like *me*?  Sorry, don't
    think I've been sampled yet :^)!   (yeah, I know which Stevie you're
    really talking about)
    
    	Seriously, I played a gig two weeks ago with a good friend of
    mine who's a keyboard consultant at Kurzweil.  His job is tweaking
    patches and presets to make them sound simply *snazzo*.  Anyway,
    he had one of these boxes, drove it from his DX-7 and blew everyone
    away.  Nearly every sound and every combination he used was perfect.
    
    	It's essentially the 250 without the sampling capability.  From
    what I gather, this is just the beginning of lot's of neat,
    'affordable' stuff to come from them in the near future.

    	

    re .5 - "Affordable"?  $2400 for a box that does nothing but strings?
    And another $2400 for a box that does nothing but brass?  Etc. 
    I mean, yeah, maybe it's almost "perfect", but do I really need 120
    different "perfect" string sounds?  I'm not sure Seiji (or anybody else
    for that matter) could get the BSO string section to make 120 different
    sounds.  And 24 voices?  Wow, I could do the Strauss Metamorphoses
    for 23 Strings on one of these things without having to multitrack,
    but, um, so what, I can buy another 8 track for the cost of one
    PX-1000.
    
    Does anybody else around here understand the concept of diminishing
    returns?  Am I missing something?
    
    len.
    

>    Does anybody else around here understand the concept of diminishing
>    returns?  
    
    Of course not.  This is Commusic.   ;-)
    
>    Am I missing something?
    
    Perhaps a third SRV-2000?  ;-)
    
	db

>>    K1000 - Keyboard version of the 1000 PX - 115 presets, 76 velocity
>>    sensitive lead-weighted plastic keys. 24 channels.  About 48"x14"x5"
>>    55 pounds.  This keyboard comes in two versions, one is the home
>>    version that includes speakers and is missing the programming features.
>>    The second is the pro version that includes the programming features
>>    but lacks the amp.

This may be the new Italian made keyboard design that Bob Moog has been
working on. If it is, it uses "proximity sensing" rather than spring steel
contacts. Should be *very* responsive and reliable.
    
>>    The prices run from $1995 for the cheapest rack mount to $2499 for
>>    the K1000's.  I asked if the company was prepared to build these
>>    in large quantities.  The rep seemed to think they were.  Someone
>>    from one of the local music stores  mentioned that he had 600 on
>>    back order.

They have moved most of the manufacturing out of the Waltham office building. 
They are now being built and tested in Atlanta at AVCO. This should be a
much better situation. The manufacturing in Waltham was a disaster (management,
overhead costs, understaffed, etc). Most of those people are gone, such as
Jean Rice, the "Oh, I love it!" VP. Some of the products will be built by
Hammond-Suzuki (they merged) in Japan.
    
>>    One feature that caught my eye, dynamic voice allocation.  The voices
>>    will be assigned to channels on an as needed basis, if you need
>>    to run 4 presets on 4 different midi channels and you go beyond 6
>>    notes on one channel, voices will be borrowed from other channels
>>    for the new notes.

There are several different "channel stealing" algorithms, including "oldest
note", "lowest note", "free channel", etc.
    
>>    To my untrained ear they sounded great.  I had to remind myself
>>    that some of the layered stuff was not being done with a sequencer.

Did Ray happen to say if there is a built-in sequencer, ala K250, in any
of the 1000 Series models?

Dave

    I'm not convinced that the other modules are worth the $$$, but
    the one with the piano sound will probably be the professional
    musician's replacement for the MKS-20 if it sounds as good as the
    piano on the original Kurzweil.
    
    KM II, you have an MKS-20 and an EMAX.  How did this new wizzo gizzo
    compare sound-wise?  Should I bag my plans to buy an MKS-20 with
    my tax return money and save for the PX1000 instead???
    
    		Derek

>> < Note 1066.6 by DRUMS::FEHSKENS >
>>                   -< I Guess I'm Not Clear on the Concept >-
>>
>>    re .5 - "Affordable"?  $2400 for a box that does nothing but strings?
>>    And another $2400 for a box that does nothing but brass?  Etc. 
>>    I mean, yeah, maybe it's almost "perfect", but do I really need 120
>>    different "perfect" string sounds?  I'm not sure Seiji (or anybody else
>>    for that matter) could get the BSO string section to make 120 different
>>    sounds.  And 24 voices?  Wow, I could do the Strauss Metamorphoses
>>    for 23 Strings on one of these things without having to multitrack,
>>    but, um, so what, I can buy another 8 track for the cost of one
>>    PX-1000.
>>   
>>    Does anybody else around here understand the concept of diminishing
>>    returns?  Am I missing something?
>>    
>>    len.
    
The typical Kurzweil marketing mentality has always shot for the high end
market. Even though these boxes seem expensive to the home or semi-pro
enthusiast, to a Stevie Wonder they are spare pocket change. Each box is
probably identical except for the samples in the sound ROMS. The directory
of each sound ROM is self-contained, so the sound engine is identical. They
are going for the ultimate stage/studio setup, with mega-channels of sequenced
instruments. The PX-1000 is the model to check out. It will be interesting
to see if the price comes down after the initial rush is over and the VLSI chip
production yield is higher. If they get down into the $1k range they could be
very competitive.

Dave

>>< Note 1066.9 by CLULES::SPEED "Professional Rock Fetcher" >
>>                            -< Oh, no, not again!! >-
>>
>>    I'm not convinced that the other modules are worth the $$$, but
>>    the one with the piano sound will probably be the professional
>>    musician's replacement for the MKS-20 if it sounds as good as the
>>    piano on the original Kurzweil.
>>    
>>    KM II, you have an MKS-20 and an EMAX.  How did this new wizzo gizzo
>>    compare sound-wise?  Should I bag my plans to buy an MKS-20 with
>>    my tax return money and save for the PX1000 instead???
>>    
>>    		Derek

If you are getting into this price range, you should seriously check out
some of the sampling keyboards like the Roland S50 and other brands. I
have 60 disks full of great sounds (free from Roland) for my S50, including
some killer horns (much better than K250), bass, rock and acoustic guitar,
organ, electric piano, acoustic piano, sound effects, strings, voices (also
much better than K250). The S50 (has keyboard) also has sampling, monochrome
and RGB color video outputs, wonderful menu driven easy operation, etc. etc.

prices at Worcester Wurly:

S50 $2795   S550 rack mount (available in Jan.) $2795 twice the RAM of S50!
D550 $1275  down from $1495
MKS20 $1500

I suggest you try out a lot of other keyboards before you plop down $2400
big ones. I have a K250 and only use it as a MIDI controller and for some
piano and strings. It is very hard to play strings on a piano touch keyboard.
When I play the strings, I use the S50 as a MIDI controller. Much more
precise. For the piano purist, the K250 has the best keyboard. For a true
synthesist, the Roland keyboards are light years beyond.

Dave

    Re .8
    
    > Did Ray happen to say if there is a built-in sequencer, ala K250, in any
    > of the 1000 Series models?
    
    Ray said the the main goal of the 1000 series was to get the sounds
    into a lower-price-point system.  The sequencing features were left
    for the high end systems.
    
    					MJC

    hi dudes.
    
    heard the keyboard version of the px1000.
    
    The grand piano blew my ears off compared to what they
    were used to....
    
    ya....the mks20.
    
    maybe it was something I ate?
    
    I can see buying the 'smorgasboard' version, but not the all strings/
    all brass, etc. give me a break.
    

    Re: .5 (Stevie K.)
    
    I was at that gig also (Great Divide--I saw you there.)
    That's where I heard the beast.  Geoff makes a great instrument
    sound even better.
    
    Re: .? (len)
    
    24 voices is a mega win for any sound which has a long sustain time.
    For orchestral stuff, I think the click you get as you preempt an
    old voice is a pain, and when you stack your choir and strings (It's
    almost, it's almost, it's almost, it's almost like pop...) then
    the problem is even worse.  12 voices would be ok for this, but
    6 (probably) would not.
    
    I think more voices IS forward evolution.
    
    Steph        
    

    re .14 - I've heard this argument before and I'm not sure I buy
    it.  For one thing, there are very few real instruments that continue
    to sound when a tone generator (e.g., a string) is used for another
    note.  It would very unrealistic for any inherently monophonic
    instrument (e.g., any woodwind).  Most instruments (there are some
    exceptions, for example cymbals) require, by the way they're physically
    designed, that the previous sound be terminated when a new note is
    sounded.  And the previous sound doesn't decay, it's damped out.
    Otherwise you'd get some (nominally) horrible dissonances when you
    played any scale-like passages.
    
    This may be a problem with arbitrarily polyphonic instruments like
    the piano or harp.  But the winds and brasses are monophonic, and
    strings are at best quadraphonic.
    
    Very few wind or brass sections have more than 6 instruments, and they
    often play in unison anyway.   Now, if you're doing contrapuntal
    stuff with a lot of parts (my example of the Strauss, which has 23
    distinct string parts), yeah, maybe a lot of voices would help.
    
    But in most cases, more voices is the wrong solution to this "problem".
    The correct solution is to get rid of the click by properly designing 
    the instrument.
    
    Furthermore, you get hall ambience from a reverb, not from the release
    of the envelopes.  (Remember, real reverberation applies to the
    attack transient as well.)  Using the release segment of the envelope
    to simulate reverb is asking for problems.
    
    My synths don't "click" when I preempt voices.  They just stop, as if
    the VCA envelope was just a gate.  Gate envelopes don't click at
    the release, and there's no way a click could be generated if the
    attack envelope starts at 0 like it's supposed to.
    
    The only time this has been a problem was when I was doing ensemble
    things, as if I had two groups of instruments.  But then, the obvious
    (and correct) solution was to multitrack or use the same patch
    multitimbrally.
                 
    Look, I agree, more voices is better than fewer voices.  But 24
    voices in a dedicated-to-one-family-of-instruments box for $2400
    is of limited appeal to me.  These new Kurzweil thingies may be
    just the thing the professional synthesist needs, but after looking
    over the keyboard setups that are accompanying the big acts on tour
    lately (see the latest Keyboard) this seems like a case of wretched
    excess. 
                                                  
    
    len.
    

    Re: .-1
    
    Note the difference  between the ``professional synthesist'' and the
    ``professional musican''. 
    
    The majority of synth owners that I know benefit vastly from the
    technology, but aren't at all interested in creating their own sounds,
    or even necessarily modifying them.  They like to be able to control
    the volume, and pack it up and dump it in their trunk.
    
    These people do end up editing patches, but I believe that that is
    because the availible patches aren't particularly good, and many synth
    designers don't understand the difference between performance
    parameters and voice parameters (I don't know if Kurzweil does or not,
    that is what I'm interested in finding out).
    
    I personally like to synthesize my own sounds, but I get more enjoyment
    out of really interesting and well ``play-tested'' sounds (if they are
    my own, that is ultimate sensation).  With many (hundreds, even) years
    of development behind conventional  instruments, these can be some of
    the best bets for expressiveness and listenability.
    
    My point is that the PX 1000 could be a very successful product,
    even in spite of its ``preset'' nature.
    
    
    As for multiple voices, the ``click'' was a term I was using to
    describe the psycho-acoustic phenomenon which results from gating
    a decaying sound.  I didn't mean an actual release transient.
    
    While and individual instrument doesn't necessarily have much sustain,
    a section can have more.  The key release is just another performance
    gesture, which doesn't necessarily map to the actual release of an
    instrument.  That is, you may want the strings to fade slowly, a strict
    volume decrease  simply doesn't cut it.  There are certainly several
    idioms you can use, but a non-zero release time (which will also
    provide appropriate timbral changes) is one of the most natural. Your
    gestures in this case provide control over the ``section'' rather than
    over the instrument. 
    
    I can't really argue with your statements about orchestral scoring and
    the number of voices except that personally, I enjoy playing a
    sustained patch (strings, orchestra, or something else) with many more
    individual parts that I would use in scoring a ``real-life'' section.
    The dissonance and harmonies which occur in passing are one of the
    nicest things about this style. 
    
    Personally, I think that one of the most important performance 
    flexibilities that a synth can have (which none of them seen to)
    is a wide variety of retriggering algorithms.  The designers seem
    to have lost interest in this as the polyphony increased.  What
    a mistake.  One of these is to let each sound ring until it has
    fully decayed, which could require many voices where keyboard technique
    is involved.
    
    Also, I'm sure you know, digital domain voices can be very cheap.
    
    Steph
    
    
    
    

>    KM II, you have an MKS-20 and an EMAX.  How did this new wizzo gizzo
>    compare sound-wise?  Should I bag my plans to buy an MKS-20 with
>    my tax return money and save for the PX1000 instead???
>Derek
    
    well, it's a toss-up to me. there's no doubt Kurzweil has their
    stuff together regarding grand piano emulation. So if a hot grand
    is your primary incentive, I must admit the 250 sounds better than
    the MKS-20. It's the additional voices and sounds that would decide
    me, IF I were in the market. Let's see.. The total polyphony
    of the MKS-20 (16MONOtimbral) + Emax (8) = 24. However, in a 
    multitrack/MAC studio with FSK syncing the Emax' voice limitations 
    don't hurt.. plus the Emax' 8 voices can be ANYTHING, not limited 
    to what's preset in ROM. Would I have done it differently ? Probably 
    not, but then I like component systems rather than integrated ones.
    
karl    

There will be a spot about Mr. Kurzweil and his company/products on
 Chronicles: Made in Massachusetts, Tuesday night, January 12,
  Channel 5, 7:30pm, in the Boston area.

/Mitch

    AAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGG!!!!!!!!  Here I am at home on the
    tube.  It's 9:56 and I *Missed* it!  Spent the time with my wife
    instead of logging on.  Oh, well.  ('Course, I *do* enjoy spending
    time with my wife ...)  Anybody got any reviews?
    
    Steve

>< Note 1066.19 by ECADSR::SHERMAN "I have an M.S. - in SCIENCE!" >
>                       -< Missed it by *that* much ... >-
>
>    AAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGG!!!!!!!!  Here I am at home on the
>    tube.  It's 9:56 and I *Missed* it!  Spent the time with my wife
>    instead of logging on.  Oh, well.  ('Course, I *do* enjoy spending
>    time with my wife ...)  Anybody got any reviews?
>    
>    Steve
>

And where do you live?  :-)

    ...or did I sleep a whole day away somewhere?   :-)

/Mitch

    I've been equipment chasing/music store salesman harassing lately,
    looking for a replacement for the Fb01.. began with Roland MT-32,
    then Kawai K5m, K3m.. then I heard the Kurzweil PX 1000 rack unit.

    Hell of a jump for an Fb01 replacement.. the Kpiano sounds are 
    better than the MKS20, eliminating the need for it. And of course
    the rest of the sounds are superb, with the exception of the
    crapola synth harpsichord.. but I have a great harpsichord setup
    for the Emax, and between you and me I don't care much. 
        
    Last weekend I sold my beloved Norton motorcycle for $1000.. 
    I can get $150 for the Fb01, ~$1100 for the MKS-20.. paying for 
    the Kurzweil up front. This would leave only the Emax and the 
    Kurzweil.. I can take it !

                      < cue the tax return check >
    
    Of course then all I haveta worry about is upgrading to Performer    
    v 2.x (for Song Position Pointer), getting a SMPTE sync box, and
    some sort of stereo mastering medium, expanding my rack space,
    organizing my floppy collection (20 Performer data for the Mac, 
    ~100 sample flops for Emax), rethinking the mixer situation, 
    getting my two ancient Nak cassette dex serviced (not in Tucson!)
    and on, and on, and on..
    
    karl

    I heard the PX1000 for the first time last week doing a session
    in my studio.  Jeff, the keyboard player that works at Kurtzweil
    that Steve K. mentioned in note .5 had one.  It sounded fantastic!
    It was recorded clean with no reverb or effects (it didn't need
    it).  The grand piano was great and stereo panned (left - low notes
    going to right - high notes).  It also allowed patch changes while
    holding over the previous patche's notes when the sustain pedal
    was held.  It is multi-timbral, across different MIDI channels.
    It steals voices from sustained notes when more then 24 voices
    were needed in such a manner that I barely noticed.  It was all
    that was needed for the track.  Clear, crisp, and smooth.
    A real nice piece of gear.
    
    Dave 

    re .21	~$1100 for the MKS 20	 Please add my name to your
    list of potential disposees ?   Of course, if I'd known you were
    SERIOUS about disposing of *BIG N* this time around..., but I couldn't
    have ridden it back from there at this time of year anyway.

    	Reg
    

    Uh, proud to announce (is this thing on ? SCREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE)
    that I'm the uh, proud owner of a PX1000 rack unit.
    
    Initial comments : the manual sux the big one.. imagine a dictionary
    that describes individual words but there's no clue as to sentence
    structure. The unit is conceptualized as a modular analog synth,
    anything can control/be routed to anywhere/anyone. This is done
    using over 300 numerical parameters. See above comments on the manual.
    
    Sounds ? Yes, there are soundz.. the piano alone was worth the price.
    Yessss, friends, for only pennies more than a dedicated piano rack
    unit. The stereo grand is great. It makes even my favorite MKS-20
    piano (Piano 2 with 10KHz boost) sound sterile. It really sounds
    like a wood and metal piano. Couldn't be happier. Most of the other
    127 samples are excellent, strings/choirs/brass/organs and variants.
    However, the synth sounds are really crappy, as are all the bass
    sounds except the the string basses. It's like they contracted out
    to deaf trolls for about 1/3 the ROM-resident sounds.
    
    Also, there are 64 blank RAM slots, able to store customized versions
    of the existing samples OR able to receive sys-ex MIDI transmitted
    setups from a Mac using the 'Object Mover' software. Synthony, my
    favorite store, claims to have deciphered the Mac software, so I'll
    soon have a source for more sounds.. either take the unit there
    physically or get the s/w myself and just copy floppies.. dunno.
    
    So this and the Emax, driven by the KX88 and Performer, are it.
    I've promised my family I'll go for counseling. Real Soon Now.    
        
    my name is karl and I'm a MIDIholic.

    re .24	Congrats Karl, I'm happy for you.
    
    	Reg
    

    RE .24
    
    No Karl, you're not the first on the Commusic block. A couple of
    months ago I bought a Mirage input sampling filter off of Mark Herdeg,
    because he traded in his Mirage toward the keyboard version of the PX1000,
    and didn't need the input sampling filter any longer. He already
    had the unit at the time and said he loved it.
    Sorry to be the bearer of bad news....
    
    Mike D.

    Karl,
    
    I demo'd the version with the keyboard (they didn't have the rack
    mount).
    
    My impression was that every sound I heard was very impressive even
    if some were not too useful.  I'm now very unhappy with my MT-32
    (classic MIDIholic behavior, eh?).
    
    I do have SOME reservations and some questions, but that'll have
    to wait cause looking at my watch I see it's Miller time.
    
    	db

    
    Re: .27
    
    Don't worry Dave, I'll be glad to take that MT-32 and RZ-1 off your
    hands for the sum of $100.........
    
    
    8^)  8^)  8^)  8^)  8^)  8^)  8^)
    
    
    

    Looks like Mark (?TALLIS:: ?) Herdeg might be the lucky recipient
    of some plaintive VAXmail messages.. I'm not really sorry to miss
    the pain of pioneering.
    
    Another thing re the Kurzweil.. as some of you know, I'm a pianist.
    Even though I really liked the MKS-20 I never felt that it would
    really, truly work in piano solo works. Now, with the Kurzweil,
    I wouldn't think twice at recording a solo piano piece with it.

    One thing that would help the realism of the Kurzweil, or any
    simulated piano, is to dynamically generate MIDI patch changes 
    to my MIDIverb, right along with sustain pedal (#64) on/off's.. 
    that is, with pedal off, default to a 'small' reverb 
    setting, and with pedal on, generate a larger 'room'. This will 
    (I've tried it) accurately emulate the high freq. sustain
    and complexity of a grand piano with the dampers raised.

    However, since I won't have the $$ for a hardware box that can
    do this #64 to patch change translation, I'll have to get MIDIBasic
    or something to tweak my Performer sequences. It never ends, does
    it ? .. unless I want to enter the patch changes by hand.. yecch..   
    
    karl

>    Another thing re the Kurzweil.. as some of you know, I'm a pianist.
>    Even though I really liked the MKS-20 I never felt that it would
>    really, truly work in piano solo works. Now, with the Kurzweil,
>    I wouldn't think twice at recording a solo piano piece with it.

I look forward to hearing at least one in the near future...

Todd.

The DSP-128 signal processor can alter its parameters in response to MIDI
controller signals.  I don't know if the sustain pedal is one of the ones
it understands (it might only do the proportional controllers).

    I checked the DSP manual in the store (yes, I almost bought a
    DSP-from-hell but thought better of it :-) )
    	
    You can only map continuous controllers to parameters.  You can't
    map switch-type controllers, or even map MIDI note number or velocity.
    I think I recall that you can only map primary controllers (that
    is, the 125 or so that you get to without using the "extended
    controller" protocol.)
                                    
    It's about half-way to what I want.
    

    I mapped the hold pedal to reverb decay time on the large-room program
    at lunch on my DSP-128.
    
    Great idea.  It worked fine, and sounded neat.
    
    The MIDI implementation of switches is as continuous controllers
    which, by the way, will only assume two distinct values.  On the
    DSP, you can map any MIDI ``continuous controller'' to any parameter.
    
    So what that meant on the DSP was that the decay time was 20 seconds
    when the pedal was down, and 1.0 second when the pedal was released.
    These values are immutable, depending upon the algorithm in use.
    So, if I had been using the medium room algorithm, the two decay
    times would have be something else--no doubt, smaller values.
    
    Steph

    
    OK, hmmmm.  Guess that's what happens when you try and read a manual
    while being ear-blasted. :-) :-)
    	
    CAN you map MIDI note number or note velocity to a parameter?  So
    as to have the effect that low notes reverberate longer, or fast-hit
    notes chorus deeper?
    
    (if you can.... grump grump... )
                        
    	-Bill
    
    

    Alas, no.  Just continuous controllers.  So if you want to low notes
    to reverb longer, you have to hit a wheel or something, and if you
    want fast hit notes to chorus deeper, you have to wait--see my review,
    when I get time tomorrow.
    
    Steph
    

    Yup, I'm the owner of the K1000--it's the keyboard version of the
    PX1000. I saw it demoed at the main Boston Computer Society meeting back
    in December and immediately knew I wanted one. My limited musical
    training was piano lessons in my youth, so I had been looking for a
    keyboard that could be a convincing piano as well as serve as my primary
    MIDI gadget for connecting to my Mac and sequencer (MasterTracks Pro)
    for fun. I previously had a CZ-101 and a Mirage, neither of which met
    the need. I did look at some of the dedicated piano keyboards from
    Roland, Technics, and KORG, but the K1000 at just a few hundred bucks
    more was in a class by itself. I bought the first one that came in at
    Daddy's in Nashua.  I paid $2350.
    
    A couple months later, I'm still extremely impressed and happy with the
    purchase. The piano sound is great. I think the keyboard feel is quite
    good--some people find it too stiff. Most of the other sounds are great
    too, especially the vibes, clarinet, horn, acoustic bass, strings... I
    guess I wish it had a flute. I agree that the preset synthesized sounds
    aren't all that great, with a few exceptions. I like some of the organs.
    However, the basic waveforms are all there, and the synthesis
    capabilities seem almost unlimited. I've managed to create a few sounds
    that I really like. I agree that the manual is frustrating--it
    tantalizes you with all those amazing capabilities but doesn't really
    show you where to start. The sound quality is incredible--I think it's
    effectively 18-bit samples. I've had a lot of fun with the stereo pan
    control. I hacked up a piano that echoes from left to right--it's like
    playing at the edge of a still lake.
    
    The April issue of Electronic Musician has a review of the K1000, which
    is quite favorable. I remember three complaints: (1) the controller
    wheels are cheesy, (2) a few of the sampled sounds aren't as useful as
    others that could have been selected, and (3) there are only stereo out
    jacks, not separate outs per voice. The author indicated that (3)
    wouldn't be a problem if the keyboard implemented equalization, which it
    currently doesn't.
    
    The K1000 differs from the PX1000 in that it has a 76-key
    velocity-sensitive keyboard, 2 controller wheels, a data-entry slider,
    two foot pedals, and additions programming keys for holding and quickly
    accessing 30 presets.  Otherwise they are the same unit.
    
    The K1000 is 24-note polyphonic and multitimbral, although I guess the
    16 MIDI channels limits the multitimbrality to 16. It is extremely
    flexible as a MIDI controller. Every MIDI controllable parameter can be
    assigned to whatever MIDI controller number you want. You can choose
    from a long list of alternate tunings or edit your own (and then name
    it--almost anything you create while editing can be named and saved in
    nonvolatile RAM). You can select or edit your own velocity map--so it
    will sound right with the nonlinearity of a Yamaha keyboard, for
    example. The actual sound programmability is truly amazing but
    overwhelming. You can choose to program at either of two levels. At the
    high level, you combine prebuilt modules that do things like vibrato,
    echo, or sustain. At the low level, you combine logical units like
    inverters, negators, adders, and complex envelopes. You can first draw a
    modular flowchart and then program it in. It's hard, but the potential
    for incredible new sounds is definitely there. Someone's going to have
    to write a good book on this.
    
    Did you say that you have or have seen the Object Mover program for the
    Mac that Kurzweil is supposed to be developing? I'm very anxious to get
    this but haven't seen or heard anything yet. A visual front end to the
    programming could make it much nicer.
    
    As an extremely amateur home musician, I sometimes feel that this
    keyboard is overkill. Considering, however, that the old upright piano
    in my basement doesn't go with me when I move in June, I look at the
    K1000 as a transportable piano with great sound at a pretty good price.
    All the rest, and there's an awful lot of it, is pure gravy. I'm happy.
    Of course, someday I'll need a drum machine and maybe an MT-32 to get
    some of those other sounds...
    
    By the way, I mentioned the BCS above. I've been to a couple meetings
    recently of the BCS Music and Computers group. They're starting to get a
    good turnout and do some interesting things. They also have an
    occasional newsletter. They meet at Berklee on the first Tuesday of each
    month. I thought there might be some interest here.
    
    If anyone has any questions about the keyboard, fire away.
    
    -Mark

Hi, Mark.

I may have been a bit vague as to what I seek. I do fairly complex
sequence recording into the Mac with Performer, multiple parts on
multiple tracks. On the Emax there's a way to 'map' MIDI info on
multiple incoming channels (from the Mac) to specific patches, 
(here's the key:) without having to edit each individual patch's
MIDI assignment ! That is, there's a 'map', named with the name
of the piece.. the Emax can store up to 99 of these 'maps'.

               Song 1 Map                  Song 2 Map
         MIDI CH# --> Patch Name        MIDI CH# --> Patch Name      
            2         Tine Piano            1        Pig Grunts
            4         Church Bells          3        Defenestration
            5         Jaco fretless         4        Bigger Thing
            6         Fart Flute           11        Stereo Windchimes
            ...        ....               ...            ....     
    
So far, the only way I see on the Kurzweil to have it play multiple
parts via MIDI is to actually get in and edit each frigging program.
And, of course, when you're done with the piece, there's no way
to 'disable' the MIDI channels just used, (assign to 000) because 
a remote program change of "0" magically calls up program 001, 
Grand Piano.

Perhaps I'm missing something major regarding the Kurzweil's MIDI
implementation. The Kurzweil 'map' merely renumbers the various
programs.

When I have time I'll try and reach Kurzweil. I can't believe, with
their hi-tech reputation, that they've given the 1000PX the same
crappy MIDI implementation of the Roland MT-32, a unit FAR cheaper.

thanks, karl

             Kurzweil support # 1-800 637-5011

Object Mover software for the Mac : $49.95 from your dealer. Allows
upload/download of sounds using safe SysEx. Be aware the editing
screen just emulates (that word again!) the front panel of the 
1000. 

However, the Object Mover software allows easy trading of sounds.
Also, Kurzweil MAY offer a low-cost diskette of supercharged
sounds as an option. These would reside in the 64 blank RAM locations.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

To completely disable a MIDI channel, in Play mode, get into Multi,
then press 'no'. Repeat for all unused channels. In my case, the
Emax will use MIDI channels 3 thru 8, therefore I need to disable
these on the Kurzweil.

                Sequencing with the Kurzweil :

There needs to be a 'null' program that the active MIDI channels
get switched to after playing a piece. Take any one-layer program,
edit the volume parameter as far down as it will go, and send it
to program position 65.

In the sequencer, assign sounds to MIDI channels using normal MIDI
patch change commands. At the conclusion of the piece, change all
non-basic channels used on the Kurzweil to program 65. This shuts 
them up.

Or, just globally switch to 'Omni Off' (POLY, of course they haveta
invent their own term).. all active channels besides the Basic 
channel (in my case, chan 2, Emax is 1) will not play, but will 
remain switched to whatever program each channel used when last
played from the sequencer...

It's not as elegant as the Emax setup, but seems useable.

karl

    Karl,
    
    Is the ObjectMover software available now? If you buy it, I'd be
    interested in a review. It's too bad they didn't enhance the editing to
    take advantage of the Mac. Looks like there's room for better software
    from someone else--Opcode no doubt will do one.
    
    Did you ask whether they intend to document their sysex messages
    anywhere? It would seem that you ought to be able to get your sequencer
    to send the sysex messages to enable and disable MIDI channels as you do
    via the front panel. That might be cleaner than the null program
    approach.
    
    It's more elegant than the CZ-101 setup...
    
    -Mark

    I just read the Keyboard review of the entire 1000 line. Disagree
    on several points. Rather than slagging off the keyboard version,
    why not comment that it's only $200 more than the rack version ?
    
    The general sense of the review was that this is for pros or the
    fooli$h. I think the piano sound alone is worth the price of admission,
    even with some new low-cost dedicated piano units coming out.. need
    I remind you that a new MKS-20 costs the same as the Kurzweil rack?
    ... plus you get world-class samples of acoustic instruments, with NO
    memory worries or floppy loading.. the review said that for that
    price you should get a floppy.. I don't miss it. 24-voice polyphony!
    
    Regarding the object mover s/w, first they beat it up for lack of
    features, then acknowledge it's only $50. What it WILL do is allow
    creation/trading of sounds for these units, without a disk drive.
    I can hear it "Oh sure, all you need is a MAC!".. but your friendly
    music store where you bought it ought to help you load those empty
    64 sample slots.
    
    All in all, even at $2000, I'm very happy with the 1000PX. The others,
    horns/strings/guitar, I'd be very dubious about.

    karl

    I was in Acton Music today (it's about 5-10 minutes northwest of
    the Mill).  (I go there to get MIDI cables ...) They just got a bunch 
    of Kurzweil stuff recently.  The salesmen were really friendly and 
    had fun demo'ing it even though I kept affirming that I probably
    wasn't going to buy and that when I do I go pretty cheap.  Anyway, I 
    gave the K1000 and the other boxes a listen.  They were running it all 
    through an SRV-2000.  It sounded very good, but I noticed that I kept 
    thinking 'yeah, that sounds like the S-10 ...yeah, that sounds like
    the TZ ...I can probably get my stuff to sound pretty close to
    that...'.  I was the only customer in the store, so other than the
    noise induced by the lights (they should move some of their wiring 
    around) it was an opportunity to give the boxes a fair listen.  I
    wasn't as impressed as they expected me to be, I guess.  I think it's 
    because for a lot less money I get comparable sounds and because my
    ears are not yet good enough to tell the difference between what I've
    got and the 'really good' stuff.  They pointed out that there's lots 
    of ways the user can diddle with the parameters.  'Course, I've
    already got that 'feature'.  But, if anybody wants to check it out, 
    it's probably worth the time.  The folks at Acton Music are pretty 
    friendly and they really don't bother you too much.  Oh, yeah.  They 
    also have some other keyboards.  Mostly Roland pianos, some Casio
    stuff and an occasional used synth.  I figure my next purchase will be 
    a D-110 next year when the price goes down.  Wanna get some LA 
    represented in my system...
    
    
    Steve

    Re: Acton Music.
    
    I was at Acton Music on Saturday also.
    
    My impression:  They bought some REAL stock!!!  They used to carry
    junk...  Cheap casio keyboards, and many trashy japanese copy guitars.
    The store is now filled with Ovations, and real Washburns, as well
    as the Kurzweils.
    
    Unfortunatly, I found that they didn't want to sell any of this
    stuff, because when I started hacking around with the K1000, the
    kid salesman (whom I have never seen before.  what happened to the
    old salesman???) told me that he was going to have to ask me to
    ``cool it''... the latest stuff ... $10,000 dollars ...
    his boss gets nervous ... if I want a demo ...
    
    He would have gone on forever if I didn't rudely interrupt him 
    to tell him that it was obvious that his boss didn't want my $2400
    so I would take it somewhere else.
    
    Anyhow that kind of treatment pisses me off.
    
        Steph

    Re: .41
    
    This is going to really test how cool the Kurtzweil owners are.
    
    If you're REALLY cool, you don't mind someone telling you your
    2000 dollar piano box is crap.
    
    Less cool owners would justify their purchase, perhaps explaining
    why the KW sounded less than perfect on that occasion.
    
    I haven't met KM -- but the desert must be getting hotter about
    now, and a punch in the face could be on the cards...
    
    Richard.

RE: .43

    Is this reply for real?  Unless this is some kind of humor, I suggest
    that you take this tangent of the discussion off line, and delete .43. 

    Otherwise, this is a violation of noting protocol; and at minimum,
    quite offensive. 

-b

    If I understand Richard right, I as a Kurzweil owner am sposed ta
    take offense at Steve Sherman not falling in love with every sound
    in the new Kboxes.
    
    Hey, if you get sounds that suit you for cheaper, go for it! As
    a person who's played piano (grand piano to boot!) since [single
    digit age], I tell you I've not heard ANY electronic piano unit
    that matches the Kurzweil. Plus of course there's all the rest of
    those sounds and 24-note polyphony. Well worth it to me ! I still
    like it ! 
    
    karl

    I don't think Richard meant the kinds of things you might be reading
    into his note.
    
    In order for this conference to be worthwhile, one has to be able to
    give reviews freely, even if they are negative (which Steve's really
    wasn't) cause chances are someone in here already owns what your reviewing.
    Otherwise perhaps the only thing you could criticize is a Synclavier
    or a Fairlight.
    
    I found Steve's opinion to be interesting.  I respect his view cause
    his stuff on the Commusic tapes have this quality of sounding dead
    on "right" to me.  (Like the organ sound on Commusic IV.)  He gave
    a similar "eh" type of review on the HR-16 and I didn't take any
    offense to it (cause I like it and it doesn't bother if someone else
    doesn't) and I doubt Karl is gonna either.
    
    	db

    Gee, you mean you guys actually *read* my reviews?
    I'm flattered!  ;-)
    
    Hey, I'm not offended at all... I never intend to offend, either.
    But, if I have offended anyone, I profusely apologize... I did enjoy
    and appreciate the demo.
    
    
    Steve

    What I find most extraordinary about all these discussions about
    how good this synth sounds or how bad that one sounds or how much
    more like a "real" piano this box sounds is the complete absence
    of any reference to the amplification system used when the unit was
    auditioned!  I find this extraordinary because the coloration
    introduced by most speaker systems is probably at least as significant
    as the differences inherent in the underlying samples (which will
    be colored by microphone type and placement, as well as the acoustics
    of the recording environment), and the absence of reference to such
    matters as speaker placement and auditioning room acoustics.  This
    applies to drum machines as well.  And does anybody ever bother
    to check if the sound's been EQ'd or otherwise processed in any
    way?
    
    It's like arguing over whether the number of angels that can dance
    on the head of a pin is 473.2 or 475.1, without mentioning the sizes
    of the pin or the angels. 
        
    len.
    

    Most of my stuff is directly fed into a tape deck for recording
    purposes. Sometimes there is some signal processing added (Reverb,
    Echo, Distortion, etc), but I prefer a pretty dry sound. If it sounds
    like a real instrument, it will do so on a cheap tape sterio, as
    well as my P.A. system. I specifically bought some 'El Cheapo'
    speakers, to allow me to mix down with the general audience in mind.
    Everything sounds better thru the P.A., so thats not much to use
    as comparison for real sounds. I judge products, in shops, based
    on useing the same amplification system. I don't haul my stuff around
    to compare with. I don't think that too many people do. If the things
    that I buy don't live up to my expectations, then, I take them back
    (when possible), or live with the limitations. The sound on the
    tape deck, thru inexpensive speakers is my acid test. 
    
    							Jens

    Yet another noter falls for the 1000PX.  
    
    After the Roland clinic at Wurlitzer's last night, I went over to Dom
    Cassone's house to diddle with his new KX88/1000PX combination and fell
    in instant lust.  I couldn't really put the unit through its paces
    (Dom didn't get a sustain pedal with the KX88 and mapping TS1 to
    sustain doesn't work too well :-) but I was extremely impressed
    with the grand piano sound.  I could care less about the other stuff.

    In my humble opinion, the 1000PX is worth the $2000 (if you have
    it) just for the piano sound.  I thought it blew the MKS20 away,
    and I am a real MKS20 fan, like our friend from the Southwest.
    
    FYI, I was listening to it through a pair of Bose 901s driven by
    a Bose 1800 amplifier.
    
    MIDI - the black hole for cash....
    
    		Derek

    New sounds for the 1000 ! 15 samples, 50 sounds on a chip, to be
    announced at NAMM, plugs into a blank socket. Between $400-$500.
    
    Drums, several electric basses, percussion, flute, several Rhodes
    setups. 
    
    Object mover s/w for the Mac is out.. doesn't allow new samples
    to be imported, but rather new parameter setups for the existing
    samples.
    
    karl

    Aha, that answers two of my questions from another Kurzweil note. Do you
    have a price for the Object Mover software? Have you used it yet? Does
    it make patch creation any easier?
    
    Also, any idea of how many of these blank sockets are in the K1000?
    There was no mention of exandability when I bought it. I wonder if
    there will ever be a sampling enhancement?
    
    -Mark

    No, Mark, I understand the Object Mover s/w just emulates the 1000
    front panel. It also doesn't allow new SAMPLES to be imported, just
    parameters which modify existing samples.
    
    karl

    I bought my K1000 a couple months ago.  (Actually, my housemate
    and I bought it together, but it's sounds snobbish to keep saying
    "we".)  Believe it or not, I bought it as my *first* piece of MIDI
    gear.  It was quickly followed by a MIDI interface for my housemate's
    Mac II, and Opcode's Sequencer software.  I recently also bought the
    Object Mover program.
    
    Why did I buy this expensive toy as our first synth?  Well, basically
    I'm trying to avoid the MIDI add-on syndrome; I want it to be a
    long time before I get tired of what I've bought.  Hopefully, it
    will be cheaper in the long run this way.  I think I've mostly
    succeeded; I lust for all the equipment I don't have, but it will
    be a long time before I exhaust what I can with just this box.
    
    Actually, there is just one more thing I'd like to get (how many
    times have you said *that* to yourself?): my housemate desperately
    wants good percussion sounds, and I wouldn't mind having them myself.
    I'm thinking of just getting the expander kit for the K1000 when
    it comes out; apparently, it comes with an assortment of percussion
    samples.  Does anyone know the status of this kit?  Has anyone heard
    it?  Should I just get a drum machine instead?
    
    The Object Mover program works similarly to the Mac's Font Mover
    program.  The screen is split in half; on either half, you can bring
    up a list of patches in a file or on a keyboard.  Then you can copy
    things from one half to the other.  The only thing you can edit
    is the name of the patches.
    
    Actually, it lets you copy around any of the 1000's objects; an object
    can be a patch, or a velocity map, or a program map, etc.  Anything
    you can set up from the 1000's front panel can be saved to disk
    (although an awful lot of it is stored as just one object, called
    "Master parameters").             
    
    The Object Mover also has a separate mode where it emulates the
    front panel of the 1000.  (It actually brings up a stylized picture
    of the front panel that's used on the rack-mount 1000's; you use
    the mouse to press the buttons.)  In this mode, the Mac's keyboard
    becomes a piano keyboard; running your fingers along QWERTY plays
    a scale on the 1000.  This mode is completely useless to me; I can just
    go use my K1000's front panel much easier.  However, I could see that it
    would be useful on one of the rack-mounted 1000's that didn't have
    a keyboard.
    
    So far, I haven't made any interesting new patches on the 1000 at
    all.  (This is hardly surprising; I'm new to this game, and I have
    no practical experience.)  I do think I understand virtually all
    of the parameters.  If anyone has any tricks or suggestions, I'd
    love to hear it.  (And if anyone has a diskette with lots of neat
    home-grown patches they're willing to share, I'd love to hear that,
    too!)
    
    - Terry     
    
    P.S.  In the next reply, I'll post a message from the USENET newsgroup
    rec.music.synth describing a bit about the 1000 expansion kit. 
    I trust that this cross-posting is a useful thing, and that the
    readers of COMMUSIC in general don't get to read USENET.  Let me
    know if I'm wrong...

Path: decwrl!labrea!rutgers!mailrus!uflorida!umd5!uvaarpa!hudson!car7r
From: [email protected] (Christian Ramsburg)
Newsgroups: rec.music.synth
Subject: Kurzweil PXA Sound Block Programs
Keywords: Has anyone done a MIDI retrofit for KORG PolySix?
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
Date: 12 Aug 88 02:19:13 GMT
Reply-To: [email protected] (Christian Ramsburg)
Organization: University of Virginia, Charlottesville
Lines: 35

There had been some speculation as to what sounds the new Kurzweil PXA
Sound Block would contain.  What follows is the most recent list.  The
trend seems to have moved away from the sampled acoustic sound to
Building Blocks for more synthesized sounds.  While they haven't added
filters, they do seem to included quite a few subranges.  My contact
said the rep brought in a PX with the prototype chips and that the
"kit" patches sounded real ``useable'' :). List is $495, discount to
$350 . "Requires installation by Kurzweil authorized Service Center."

{In other news, V6.0 Software for the K250/250RMX ; K250 RAM
Cartridge; Ensemble Grande Mark III; and Version 3.0 Software for the
MIDIBoard ( includes MIDI-Merge, and arpegiator) should be out by now
or soon to be released.}

(With regrets to Sean McLinden, who was unhappy with Kurzweils decision
not to include more sampled sounds.) It includes..

" Flute, Brt Flute, Mel Flute, Electric Bass, Brt E Bass, VBrt E Bass,
Mel E Bass, E Slap Bass, Mel Slap Bass, Brt Slap Bass, Tine Piano,
Soft Tine Pno, Hard Tine Pno, Clean Kit 1, Clean Kit 2, Clean Kit 3,
Clean Kit 4, 61 Key Kit, 76 Key Kit, Two 8va kit, Processed Kit,
Congas, Low Conga, High Conga, Low Slap, High Slap, Ext Bari Horn, Ext
Trumpet, Ext Clarinet, High Noise, Med Noise, Low Noise, VLow Noise,
Noise 1/4 Tr, Noise 1/2 Tr, Noise 1/1 Tr, High Thump, Med Thump, Low
Thump, VLow Thump, Thump 1/4 Tr, Thump 1/2 Tr, Thump 1/1 Tr, Sawtooth,
Dull Sawtooth, VDull Saw, Vd>D Sawtooth, E Piano Wave, Bell Wave,
Organ Wave, Clav Wave, 1/3 Width, Flat Spectrum, HiFrq Formant, EE
Wave, 123 Wave, 4567 Wave, 981011 Wave, Sine Wave, Sine+ Wave, Sine ++
Wave, Sine+++ Wave, ExtDyn Sine+, Saw++ Wave, Swd+ Wave, Swd++ Wave,
Svd+ Wave, Svd++ Wave, EP+ Wave, EP++ Wave, Bl+ Wave, Bl++ Wave, Clv+
Wave, Clv++ Wave, Thr+ Wave, Thr++ Wave. "
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
[email protected]                      [email protected]
University of Virginia, Charlottesville, VA --  ACC.
Manda' cartas en espan~ol, y te contesto

    Does anyone know if the new manual for the 1000PX is out yet.  The
    last time I called Kurzweil, they said "Yea, we are working on
    it...call you dealer in a couple of months"  I would think that
    with the VERY poor organization of the preliminary manual, they
    would send the new one to all registered owners.
    
    Anyway, has anyone gotten one, and if so, is it better then the
    one that came with the 1000PX?
    
    Regards,
    Dom

    re -1..
    
    I'll call my dealer today.  (taken out of context the previous
    statement could be incriminating)
    
    The current manual is sort of like a dictionary.  It defines terms
    and faithfully follows the K's menu tree, but doesn't link any subject
    with any other subject.
    
    There's things I've done, like map one of my KX88's sliders to be
    a 'Data' slider (controller #6?) and would LOVE to diddle LFO speed
    or Pan position, but the f$^&*( manual just makes it too much work.
    
    I still LOVE the 1000PX, though I'm just in 'play' mode, and keep
    finding new favorite sounds.  Also looking fwd to the new sound
    ROM.
    
    karl
    

    I'm diddling around with my K1000 in the same way. I *know* there are
    some great new sounds in there waiting to be set free, but where to
    start? A better manual would help, but I'd really like to see a
    graphical front end for the Mac so I can program it by manipulating
    on screen block diagrams like they show in the manual.
    
    I have yet to see anyone selling patches for the 1000, so I guess no one
    else has really figured it out yet either.
    
    -Mark

    No word yet on Kmanual.
    
    ROM almost available (2 weeks), anticipated |-(  $495, incl
    installation, for the rack unit.  As the keyboard unit doesn't have
    the board with the empty ROM socket, add $100.
    
    1000GX out.. 20 simult. guitar voices.  Who needs it, just get
    Dave Bottom or Dave Dreher and an 8-track..
    
    karl

    Attached is a copy of the first mailing from a new USENET mailing
    list devoted to the Kurzweil 1000 series.  Perhaps this will shed
    some light on the "impenetrable user interface" mentioned by, I
    believe, Karl Moeller.
    
    The first mailing was sent out yesterday.  A copy follows:

<included mail message>
        
From:	DECWRL::"[email protected]" "Brad Miller  20-Dec-88 2245 EST" 
    	20-DEC-1988 22:48:35.19
To:	[email protected]
CC:	
Subj:	New Kurzweil Mailing list set up...

Cc: [email protected]
 
The mailing list to discuss patches and other stuff that only owners/users
would know or care about in Kurzweil's 1000 series has been set up....
 
To get on it: send mail to [email protected]
To mail to it: send mail to [email protected]
 
if anyone from Kurz happens to be out there, you are welcome to join us...
 
----
Brad Miller		U. Rochester Comp Sci Dept.
[email protected] {...allegra!rochester!miller}
 
<end of included mail message>
    
    If memory serves me correctly, this mailing list can be reached from the
    Enet by sending mail to:
    
    	to get on mailing list --> DECWRL::"[email protected]"
    
    	to post to it --> DECWRL::"[email protected]"

    Happy reading!
    
    - John - (not yet a 1000PX owner, but may be soon)

    
    An easy way to get free Kurzweil equipment:
    
    While talking to Bruce Katz at a gig we did together last night,
    I was admiring the 1000PX in his rack.  Seems his band, Barrence
    Whitfield and the Savages signed up with Miller Beer (oh no, they
    sold out !!!!!) and part of the deal is a bunch of manufacturers
    throw in free equipment.
    
    He got the 1000PX *plus* a MidiBoard, totally free....geez.  Says
    he doesn't know jack-squat about MIDI, he uses it because it's lighter
    than the upright piano they used to haul around.

    To quote Jerry Garcia :
    
    "We TRIED to sell out, but no one was buying !"

Last week I spent some time playing with the new 1000 sound block..
    $450 installed in my 1000PX rack unit, $550 installed in the K1000,
    since the ROM sockets also have to be put in.  There's a K1000 model
    that comes with these new sounds installed, for an appropriate uplift
    in price.  
    
    Bass, electric, thumbed & popped, also vel-switch between the two
    Drums, several sets.  Stereo. Bery,bery clean.  Good cymbals, no loops.
    Latin Perc, various. Stereo.
    Rhodes - lots of variations.  Closest to real (non-DX) sounds.
    Flutes - solo & ensemble.
    
    *IF* I was playing out more, or doing more rock music, these would
    be a MUST.  As I'm a studio creature now, and have all of the above
    sounds except the Rhodes already for the Emax, it's a lower priority.
    So I have NOT purchased the new sound block.  Yet.
    
    karl (went swimming outside on Sunday !)

    So, Karl, what does a PX1000 w/ ROM sockets run nowadays?

    Are these ROMs user-changable or no?  Nowhere close to here in cow
    country sells Kurzweil. 

-b (we had 60� on Saturday, but we ain't swimmin') 

    < Note 1066.64 by DYO780::SCHAFER "Brad - back in Ohio." >
>    So, Karl, what does a PX1000 w/ ROM sockets run nowadays?

    I assume you mean the 1000PX RACK unit ?  It already has the sockets,
    thus the installation price is (ahem) lower by $100 than the keyboard.
    I bought my 1000PX 10 months ago or so for $2018.18, incl AZ state
    tax (7%).
    
>    Are these ROMs user-changable or no?  
    
    Well, probably, if u have an installation guide ! HAHAHAHA !  (that
    was for DBottom..)  Actually, I dunno the policy.  If u good with
    electronix, they'd sell  one unwarranted.  *IF* you buying new,
    you could *probably* get the rack unit with new ROM installed (still
    leaves one blank socket!).. I know you can buy the keyboard version
    with new ROM installed right-from-factory.. I forget price, ~$2500.
    
    karl

I assume that these new sounds expand your sound list, not replace???

And how long (meaning how many more) can new sound blocks be added??

Chad

    The standard 1000 comes with 128 sounds.  The new block adds 64
    more, leaving one blank ROM socket for yet another block.. max 256
    separate voices, as I see it.  Interesting, esp. for the rack unit,
    as MIDI patch change has a 0-127 value... luckily Kurzweil allows
    you to remap voices to patch numbers.. meaning I can just avoid
    the stinkers.  and there are some..

    karl

    Just thought I'd let everyone know that after what seems like years
    of pondering (it WAS years, come to think of it), I finally bought
    the Kurzweil 1000PX with sound block A and ObjectMover for the Mac.
    
    I really like the 1000PX so far (had it about a week) and am anxiously
    awaiting the arrival of the sound  block so I have the full-blown
    unit to fidget with.  The drums I heard on the sound block demo
    unit (a K1000 at Acton Music) were very nice and will make a fine
    addition to the Roland TR-707 sounds I've already got.
    
    After everything is installed, I'd be willing to bring it to a COMMUSIC
    try-out (maybe after a LERDS-BIM) if someone has a place close by
    that it could be plugged into.  I'd volunteer my house but my daughter
    goes to bed around 7:00 and I think the noise of the thundering
    mass of COMMUSICians would disturb her too much.
    
    At any rate, I'll let you know when the sound block's been installed
    and my impressions.
    
    By the way, as Karl Moeller has mentioned, the "stock" trumpet patch
    (number 3 or 4, I think) is pretty awful.  However, I was able to come
    up with a better one the first night as I was going through the owner's
    manual.  I set up a 4 layer trumpet patch using the standard trumpet
    soundfile, the bright trumpet soundfile, the dull trumpet soundfile,
    and one other trumpet thing.  I assigned different detuning parameters
    and vibrato, etc. to each layer.  Thus, each key actually sounds a mix
    of the 4 unison notes.  (With polyphony of 24, this still lets me play
    6 notes at a time.)  It's quite fat sounding and is a vast improvement
    over the standard patch. 
    
    The user interface does take getting used to but, with patience, can be
    figured out.  My main suggested improvement would be the addition of
    keypad so one could call up a program directly without using SYSEX.  (I
    think this has been added to the 1000PX plus as have 2 additional outs;
    the standard 1000PX only has 2 outs).  All of this was done using the
    compiled effects that are provided.  I still haven't mustered up the
    courage to try to slog my way through the modular effects, however,
    that looks like it will require a good chunk of time to understand. 
    
    Now if only I can find time to record something new for COMMUSIC
    VII!
    
    - John -

    Congrats !! It'll soon become your studio workhorse.. You mentioned
    a 1000PX 'Plus'.. is that the one with all the buttons on the front?
    
    That's my main complaint with the user interface.. with only 4 pairs
    of buttons, getting in and out of menus is painful.  Plus the (non-
    adjustable) display is difficult to read off-axis (i.e. more than
    15� above it).. rendering my a 'level I' user most of the time.
    
>    ......I still haven't mustered up the
>    courage to try to slog my way through the modular effects, however,
>    that looks like it will require a good chunk of time to understand. 

    .. or a decent MANUAL which EXPLAINS things.. the current one is
    sorta like a dictionary, with no instruction on sentence construction.    

    ..but the sounds are WORTH IT.
    
    karl

>>>    < Note 1066.69 by SALSA::MOELLER "Audio/Video/MIDIophile" > 
>>>
>>> You mentioned a 1000PX 'Plus'.. is that the one with all the buttons on
>>> the front? 
    
    Acton Music (where I bought the unit) showed me a brief blurb/ad from
    what I think was Keyboard magazine (maybe not).  The 1000PX Plus
    seems to have the same sounds as a 1000PX and sound block A with
    4 outs and the A B C   1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 buttons from the K1000
    panel on the front.  These buttons will allow one to directly access
    some number of the sounds without scrolling.  There may be other
    changes, too.  The same source mentioned an "Acoustic Expander Plus"
    (AX1000 Plus, perhaps) that contains soundfiles ONLY of acoustic
    instruments.  That is, none of the electronic waveforms.  Sounds
    like an attempt to salvage some of the sounds from the Horn Expander,
    String Expander, and Guitar Expander since I've heard that those
    units haven't done as well as expected.  This sounded like a nice
    unit but I didn't want to wait for it.  Also, these "Plus" things
    are going to list at approx. $3000 US.
    
>>> That's my main complaint with the user interface.. with only 4 pairs
>>> of buttons, getting in and out of menus is painful.  Plus the (non-
>>> adjustable) display is difficult to read off-axis (i.e. more than
>>> 15� above it).. rendering my a 'level I' user most of the time.
>>>    
>>> .. or a decent MANUAL which EXPLAINS things.. the current one is
>>> sorta like a dictionary, with no instruction on sentence construction.
    
    Acton Music mentioned that Alexander Publishing was going to release
    "soon" a book that better explains how to use the functions.  They
    readily acknowledged that the manual was a good dictionary but lacked
    sections to pull all of the operations together in order to accomplish
    normal editing tasks.  Supposedly the Alexander book will take the
    latter approach.  It supposed to be the usual $20 - $30 US when
    it comes out.  If/when I see it, I'll let you know if it's helpful.
    
    - John -

Re: .-3

I'd love to play with your trumpet patch.  Assuming you don't mind sharing
it, could you upload a copy of an Object Mover file containing it to the 
Easynet somewhere?  Or if that's not feasable, could you give an address I 
could mail a diskette to so you can mail it back?

Thanks,
Terry

>>> I'd love to play with your trumpet patch.  Assuming you don't mind sharing
>>> it, could you upload a copy of an Object Mover file containing it to the 
>>> Easynet somewhere?  Or if that's not feasable, could you give an address I 
>>> could mail a diskette to so you can mail it back?
    
    I don't yet have ObjectMover (it's been ordered for me).  Am I right
    in assuming that when I get it, I'll be able to upload the file
    onto my Vax and make it available?  If so, I'll try to do that once
    I get the software.
    
    Of course, it's not THAT complicated a patch.  If all else fails,
    I'll try to figure out how to describe what I did in a text file
    (here in COMMUSIC) and let you recreate it on your own 1000.
    
    I'm pretty busy this week, so it may be a week or so before I get
    to this but I'll post it as soon as I get a chance.  If you haven't
    seen it by the end of next week, send me mail as a gentle reminder
    to get to it.
    
    Thanks for your interest!
    
    - John -

Yes, you should be able to upload the file to your VAX and make it available.
(I haven't done this yet myself, but I think know how.  Well, using an
Ultrix machine anyway; I don't use VMS very much.)

No hurry here; just wanted to let you know there *is* interest!

- Terry

>>>    < Note 1066.68 by XERO::ARNOLD "Am I re-elected yet?" >
>>>                        -< I finally bought a 1000PX! >-
>>>
>>>    At any rate, I'll let you know when the sound block's been installed
>>>    and my impressions.
    
    Well, I brought home the 1000PX with the PX-A sound block yesterday
    and played a bit last night.  Although perhaps not for everyone,
    I found the soundfiles and "programs" very useful.
    
    There are some really good flutes.  I was especially pleased with
    the "air" in the lower register.  When I play flute, I like to play
    in the lower registers (too many years of band in which every piece
    was in E-flat and hardly any notes below the C above middle C, I
    guess) and the sound there was just the type of sound I like.
    
    The drums seem pretty good but it will take awhile to figure out
    what sounds are there and which are useful.  There are 4 "Clean
    Kit" sound files.  Each seems to have the same set of instruments
    sampled across the 88 keys (there's another 5 octave kit for those
    without 88 key controllers) but with differing amounts of brightness,
    lug tension, etc.  There seems to be a (non-standard) mapping of
    drums to the keyboard so I'll have to draw out a map sometime. 
    As I recall, it goes something like this from lower to higher register):
    
    	- lowest octave or 2 => different tunings of low toms and mod
    	  toms
    	- 4-6 notes clustered around the C below middle C => bass drums
    	- middle of octave between middle C and C below middle C =>
    	  various tunings of higher toms and maybe some sidestick (or
    	  that sound when you place a stick on the snare rim and tap it down
    	  on the head while doing a little muffling with your hand (??)
    	- 4-6 notes clutered around middle c => snare drums
    	- 5-6 notes of tightly closed hi-hat
    	- 5-6 notes of loosely closed hi-hat
    	- 5-6 notes of closing hihat (stick tap followed by closing)
    	- 3-4 notes of handclaps
    	- 5-6 notes of crash (with truncated decay if you hit the same
    	  note again but NOT if you hit a crash on a different note)
    	- 5-6 notes of ride near the edge (same effect as crash)
    	- 5-6 notes of ride nearer the bell (")
    	- 5-6 notes of fingersnaps
    
    (When I write up a better map, I'll post it.)  It appears that this
    setup is geared to allow one to play the drums for a keyboard with
    the left hand doing bass-snare stuff (by playing at or near octaves)
    while the right hand can do cymbals and other things.
    
    There are also sound files of a sampled Rhodes (soft and hard tine
    hits) including a few programs that do hard soundfile switches at a
    certain velocity point and a crossfaded program where there is a
    smoother transition between the 2 sounds.  A similar setup for the
    "regular" Electric and a "snapped" electric bass that will make
    for good funk playing (if I can get the hang or it).
    
    There are also soundfiles for congas, 55 gallon drum, and a bundle
    of generic waveshapes (for "synthesizing" using the editing
    capabilities).
    
    I should add that an unsung feature of the 1000PX that has really
    helped me is the ability for it to create a velocity map for one's
    particular keyboard and playing style.  It asks you to strike a ppp
    note and an fff note.  It seems to read the MIDI velocity info of those
    and interpolate the pp, p, f, ff levels.  I use a MIDI-retrofit PF15 as
    a controller and it is very hard for my style of playing to go below
    MIDI velocity 35 and above 95.  By creating a jea-PF15 velocity
    map, I can get better transitions between, for instance, the
    cross-faded programs.  A very nice feature.
    
    - John -

      FAI ...(for anyone's information !)
    
          I checked out the 1000PX 'plus' at Dada's Nashua last night. The
    system they had it running through sounded like $#!+. I knew what
    it sounded like before I went there anyway. It has lots of front
    panel buttons to ease programability. Drum kits were great. Rhodes
    were great too. I read in previous notes that it was supposed to
    have 4 outs? The one I tried had 2 outs. Is this right?? The best
    thing was $1995 for a NEW 1000PX plus. I saw a used 1000px plus
    in the want ads for 1900 *FIRM*. Is there one more ROM socket
    in the px plus just like in the px (if you have the latest ROM installed)?
    
    Frank
    
  
  

>>>    I read in previous notes that it was supposed to have 4 outs? The one I
>>>    tried had 2 outs. Is this right?? 
    
    I am/was under the impression that the 1000PX Plus should have at
    least 4 outs, maybe six.  (I can't remember if I read 4 extra outs
    for 4 total.)  If what you saw had the extra front panel buttons
    (labelled with things like A B C 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9), then it could
    be that I'm mistaken or that Kurzweil changed their minds.
    
    Perhaps a word of caution would be to make sure that they're not
    being told something is a 1000PX Plus when it is "just" a 1000PX
    with the PX-A Soundblock.  I'll presume that the extra panel buttons
    and the extra outputs (if they really exist) would give this away.
    Also, I think the front panel of the unit should say "Plus" on
    it.
    
>>>    The best thing was $1995 for a NEW 1000PX plus. I saw a used 1000px
>>>    plus in the want ads for 1900 *FIRM*. Is there one more ROM socket in
>>>    the px plus just like in the px (if you have the latest ROM
>>>    installed)? 

    $1995 is (a little bit) less than I paid for a 1000PX with PX-A
    soundblock a few months ago.  If it's a new Plus, that seems like
    a good price.
    
    Although it would make sense that the 1000PX Plus would have room
    for an extra soundblock (after the 1000PX stock and PX-A blocks
    that are standard with the unit), I am NOT absolutely sure.  I'd
    call Kurzweil to be sure.
    
    [new information, not related to the reply]
    
    I spoke briefly with Ray Kurzweil at the IEEE Conference on Artificial
    Intelligence Applications a few weeks ago (he gave one of the
    keynotes).  I asked if I could presume that there would be follow-on
    soundblocks after the PK-A and KX-A kits.  He mentioned there would
    be some but hesitated at giving details of when and what
    instruments/sounds would be included.  He stressed the company's
    commitment to keeping their products up-to-date (e.g., continued
    enhancement to the K250 with new options for more outputs, etc.).
    
    - John -

Saw the PX1000 plus at Daddy's.  Had a lot more buttons than normal pX1000
and only 2 audio outs.  SAid PX1000 plus on a factory label on it too.

Chad

    Well, the MIDIbug finally gets ya in the end!  Yeah, I know; I was
    supposed to be waitin' for the PROTEUS to come down to $599.99.
    But that seemed like it would be a while, and the price on these
    Kurzweil Modules was just TOO low.  I made the mistake of reading
    some of KM's prose in previous 1066 notes, and looking up some past
    reviews in the trade rags.  The coup de grace was talking it over 
    with Dave O. on Friday.  ( Thanks, Dave.....I think.  :-)  )
    
    To make a long story short, I bought a Kurzweil 1000PX from Guitar
    Center in Chicago, last weekend (M/O).  The local store had run
    out by the time I finally made up my mind.  (Have you ever noticed
    how when something becomes unavailable, you gotta have it EVEN MORE!!).
    Guitar Center has three stores in Chi-town, and according to the
    salesman they have about two dozen or so more, left.  (Hello...
    where did everyone go?).  
    
    I've always liked this machine, and thought about buying one last
    year when I got my D110.  But at nearly $1800 at the time, I just
    could not justify it when the D110 was only $675.00.  Most of the 
    people I've talked to felt that it would be a steal at $1000.00, 
    and so that coupled with the $699.99 price (plus $6.52 in shipping) 
    was just the ticket.  I was not as impressed with the sounds on 
    soundblock A and so probably won't be getting that, but will be
    curious to see what's in B.  
    
    Since greater minds than mine have already done reviews, I won't
    torture you all with a blow by blow when the unit arrives.  However,
    I do reserve the right to rant and rave a bit about how it fits
    in with my present gear.  (I think it will blend well with both the
    D110 and the K5).  
    
    The phone number for the Chicago Guitar centers is in note 16.107.
    (I spoke to a Mike Dolan at (312) 774-4300).
     
    Clusters, 
    Bill (Does this mean I have to get serious now?) Allen 
                                                  
    
    PS Now for some professional drum percussion sounds.  
    
    	   SMACK!!!
           
                  Thanks, I needed that.       *   *
                                                 >
                                                
                                                 ~

    $699.95 ?  AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGH

Well I too couldn't let this go by.  A 1000PX for $699 is a great price.  I
ordered one also MO from the Guitar Center referenced in .78.

So, does anyone know if there are any good sources of additional patches for the
PX?  

	- Jim

    >>>   <<< Note 1066.79 by SALSA::MOELLER "Mean, with a large deviation" >>>
    >>>              -< I paid $2018.18.. wait & buy 3, he said >-
    >>> 
    >>> $699.95 ?  AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGH
    
    But, Karl , you've had the USE of it for sooooo much longer.  Certainly
    that's worth the $1300, isn't it?  That's what I keep telling my
    checkbook.
    
    - John - (who paid $2000 including Soundblock A)
    
    P.S.  I really like "Ascending Ayers Rock" just no time to review yet.

Does anybody know if the sound blocks can be installed in the other 1000
series modules (HX, SX, GX) as well as the PX?

Mike D

>>>                    -< additionals ROMs for the HX, SX, GX ? >-
>>> 
>>> Does anybody know if the sound blocks can be installed in the other 1000
>>> series modules (HX, SX, GX) as well as the PX?
    
    I believe additional ROMs can be added to the other modules but the ROM
    used in a 1000PX isn't necessarily useable (sp?) in a 1000Hx, GX, etc. 
    I seem to recall reading about an HX-A soundblock for the HX just like
    there was PX-A soundblock for the PX.  I've certainly never heard of a
    PX-A being put in an HX or other module.  Maybe it's possible but I'd
    ask a dealer/installer/Kurzweil_techie to be sure.
    
    - John -

>    < Note 1066.81 by XERO::ARNOLD "It's not the heat. It's the stupidity." >
>                 -< But I've gotten sooo much use out of it! >-
>    But, Karl , you've had the USE of it for sooooo much longer.  Certainly
>    that's worth the $1300, isn't it?  

    lets' see.. $1300 over 18 months is $72 and change per month.
    
    Well, John, thanks for helping me remember that you can't put a
    price tag on music - I have no idea what I'd have done with $72
    per month that I'd have enjoyed more than the 1000PX.
    
    karl    
    

The other ones do have open slots but I think that the roms are made for
each box individually.  The literature says the HX can take three expansion 
modules.  Remember only the PX has 24 polyphony, the others 20 (or less?)

Chad

    What's this about expansion ROMs?  What do these things give you that
    the stock 1000PX doesn't (other than more samples/waveforms to diddle
    with)? 

    Isn't the 'famous piano' in the stock 1000PX?

-b

>< Note 1066.85 by NORGE::CHAD "Ich glaube Ich t�te Ich h�tte" >
>                                    -< ... >-

>The other ones do have open slots but I think that the roms are made for
>each box individually.  The literature says the HX can take three expansion 
>modules.  Remember only the PX has 24 polyphony, the others 20 (or less?)

Why should the amount of polyphony matter?
Have you ever seen the additional 3 ROMs for the HX? I'd be real 
interested in seeing (and hearing) what they offered on those (French horn?,
Mellophone?, Flugelhorn?, Tuba?, Bari Sax?, Soprano Sax?),  
assuming that they exist of course.

 

RE .86  Yes the famous Kurzweil piano comes with the PX, along with many 
other sounds, but there is room
on the PX for two additional ROMs (Soundblocks A and B). I guess the sockets 
for these additional ROMs are built in at the factory for the PX module, but 
must be installed in the K1000. Basically, what you are buying when you get 
a PX-Plus is the additional ROMs (or at least one of them) already built in.

Somebody correct me if I'm wrong. Dave Orin--R U out there?

Mike D

I haven't heard of any for the other 1000 modules actually having sound-blocks
released for them.  Maybe they have?

The amount of polyphony matters if someone is thinking of getting an HX (or
whatever) and seeing if the PXA soundblock works trying to get a pseudo PX.
Basically I was saying that it is not only the sounds that are different
between the boxes.

Chad whod_be_real_interested_in_HX_sound_blocks_too.

    re: .86
    
    >>> What's this about expansion ROMs?  What do these things give you that
    >>> the stock 1000PX doesn't (other than more samples/waveforms to diddle
    >>> with)? 
    
    The PX-A Soundblock gives you new soundfiles and an extended set of
    "default" patches that use those new soundfiles.  Note that Patches
    64-128 or so are reserved for User Program placement so the new patches
    extend up into the 200s.  These new soundfiles extend the soundfile
    choice for each of the 4 layers that can go into a patch.  Thus, you're
    free to make a patch that uses the piano and acoustic bass from the
    original PX soundblock and augment it with layers incorporating the
    electric piano and flute from the PX-A soundblock.
    
    Although I don''t have a complete list of the PX-A soundfiles ready at
    hand, I can recall that there are at least 30-40 of them.  They range
    from a whole new set of "synthesized" sounds (Sine+, Sine++, , etc.)
    that extend the synth waveforms in the stock 1000PX to the more readily
    useful set of flutes (flute, mellow flute, bright flute, etc.),
    electric piano (soft EP, hard EP, dual EP (hard-coded crossover)),
    electric bass (soft, hard, dual), and 4 full 88-key mappings to
    different drum sounds as well as some layers of congas, 55 gallon
    drums, etc.
    
    I like the new sounds that the PX-A makes available.
    
    >>> Isn't the 'famous piano' in the stock 1000PX?
    
    Yes, the "famous" piano comes up as default patch 1 on the 1000PX. 
    Though I find myself using patch 17 (Stereo Extended Piano or something
    like that) instead of patch 1.
    
    - John -

I got my 1000PX while I was gone over the weekend and/or on Friday.  It
doesn't work.  The LCD lights up and the top row of character cells turns dark.
Both soft and hrd rest don't help.  I'm not really bummed outthough as I
don't have any immediate needs for it.  Its just a pain to get someting fixed/
returned.

Anyway, there was a newsletter from Kurzweil attached (dated June 29, 89)
announcing availability of soundblocks for all 1000 series keyboards and
modules, including GX, HX, PX, K1000, and AX.  These are available direct
from Kurzweil.  If ordered before June 90, a coupon for free installation
is included.  Prices are list, ie, $495 for all except AX whixh is $695.

It says that PXA must be installed before PXB can be installed.


Chad

I'm looking to see if anyone has built a particular sound on the PX, perhaps
out of one of the Choir or "Ah Wave" soundfiles.  I need a "breathy vocal"
sound, similar to the one used on "Shout" by Tears for fears.  Actually, what
I need is a copy of the "Hiss" part of the "Mondo/Hiss" patch for the
Mirage (Mondo is easy; Hiss is tough).

I'm continuing to work on this on my PX and ESQ.  But, just checking to see 
if anyone has built something like this...

thanks,
andy

    re: .91 (breathy vocal)
    
    My latest thinking on this is to try to combine layers of the choir
    soundfile with some sort of formant or hiss waves.  Unfortunately, I
    can't recall the complete list of 1000PX or PX-A soundfiles off the top
    of my head.  I'm pretty sure I've got some formant soudfiles but I
    think they're on the PX-A soundblock to get a breathy flute sound. 
    When I get the time, I'll try putting these together with the choir and
    see what happens.
    
    As a general starting point for any patch, I usually go into edit mode
    and listen to just 1 layer (i.e., 1 soundfile) and step throught the
    whole list of them until something sounds close.  Then I'll add a
    second layer (either listening to the 2nd layer solo or in conjunction
    with the first) until the new aspect of the sound gets close.  I don't
    diddle too much with effects or cound balances until later.  Of course,
    to get wild patches like Program X where the envelop is really part of
    the overall sound, I bet this approach would fail dismally.
    
    - John -

    I recently got some mail from one of our 1000PX owners about the
    relative lack of output level on some of the 1000PX patches.  I'll
    reply to that here to save others some similar trouble, I hope.
    
    The case.. the 1000PX Rock Organ patch (#10 or so).
    
    Looking at the 2 layers in this patch, each layer is (for some reason
    set at -13db output).  This setting can make the patch seem pretty weak
    at the outputs when compared to heavy playing on velocity sesitive
    patches liek #17 (Stereo Extnd Piano).  (Note that the rock organ patch
    ignores velocity sensitivity to mimic the response of an organ
    keyboard.)
    
    The problem is that the factory presets can't be altered.  One's only
    way to handle a problem like this is to save an edited version of the
    patch in "user space" (patches #64-127).  What I've done is go to patch
    10 or whatever and enter edit mode (the key with edit above it
    somewhere) and change the output values for each level to 0db.  This
    increases the gain a lot but still doesn't send my mixer needles
    screeching over the edge.  (You may have to use different values for
    your setup.)  Then, press edit again and the display will ask if you
    want to save the changes.  If you say Yes, it will say something like
    "save as xxx?" where xxx is the first empty slot in patches 64-128.
    
    Once this is done, you can ignore the preset patch and use your own. 
    This does take up a precious slot of user memory (a shortcoming on the
    PX, I admit) but is easier than always having to fiddle with the PX
    output level or mixer when you change patches.
    
    Hope this helps,
    
    - John -

    re breathy 'ahhh' : I recall that there are various ' noise ' waveforms
    available : white/red/green/blue.  The colors represent the frequency
    weighting.  I'd start with a standard choir layer, and add a white
    noise layer, and then play with the relative volumes.

    BTW, when I want a sound like this I just use my 'Fairlight voices'
    floppy for the EMAX...
    
    karl    

I have joined the ranks of 1000 PX owners!  I bought one from the Guitar 
Center for $699.99 and it's on it's way to my house now! I am adding this 
to the 1000 HX (Horn Expander) that I bought last week ($495 at Daddy's 
blowout sale). Sounds crazy huh? You have to go for the good deals when 
the opportunity arises, I always say. I'm looking forward to participating 
here and hopefully getting some help from all of you seasoned 1000 series
veterans. 

Now I'd like to streamline my stage setup (eliminate a keyboard, etc.), but I 
need to get a couple of sounds out of the PX that aren't included in the the 
ROM programs. Specifically I need a flute sound (doesn't really have to be 
strong on the breathy/chiff sound but that would be nice if possible), and
--get this-- an accordian sound. Does anyone have patches of these by any 
chance? If not could you suggest what I should to do try to program them 
myself --especially the flute. I think I have a decent idea of how to get an 
accordian: use a reedy soundfile (clarinet?, sax?) layer it with another 
reedy soundfile, down an octave (how's that for a start?)

Mike D

RE: .95

As far as I know, the flute soundfiles are only in the PX-A soundblock.  There's
one fluty patch which is made up of sawtooth waves in 4 layers, I think.

RE: last few

Thanks for the reply re: db levels (I was the mystery source of that problem).
I did just that; adjusted the layer outputs, and wrote it to a RAM location.
You gotta wonder why they placed the outputs so low, though...

As far as the breathy vocal, ...

>    re breathy 'ahhh' : I recall that there are various ' noise ' waveforms
>    available : white/red/green/blue.  The colors represent the frequency
>    weighting.  I'd start with a standard choir layer, and add a white
>    noise layer, and then play with the relative volumes.

I'll try this, Karl....  Sounds good.

>    BTW, when I want a sound like this I just use my 'Fairlight voices'
>    floppy for the EMAX...

"It's people like you what causes unrest!"  ;^)


   andy

Does anyone know if you can get the 1000PX to initiate a SYS EX dump (so it can
be stored via a utility) from the PX menus?  From some magic SYS EX sequence?

And then, send it back again?  

	- Jim

P.S. This would be to a floppy on a keyboard which supports using it as a 
     SYS EX dump utility.

>    < Note 1066.95 by MARLIN::DIORIO "No, I'm not bored...really...Zzzzzzzzzzzzz" >

    re accordian - I recall there's a couple of factory patches that
    sound like accordians - not always intentionally.. they're high
    up in the numbering scheme.  I'll check tonight.
    
    re flute - you're out of luck.. there is a patch called 'BrethyFlute'
    or something in the factory patches, but it sucks; sounds like the
    (excellent) clarinet layered with a Choir patch...     
    
    The PXA soundblock gives good flute, as Andy stated.  
    I just use my 'Flutes from Hell' floppy for the EMAX ;-)
    (I KNEW there was a reason I bought the EMAX !)    

    karl

< Note 1066.98 by SALSA::MOELLER "Wanna work in Wagga Wagga N.S.W." >

>    re accordian - there's a couple of factory patches... that
>    sound like accordians... high up in the numbering scheme.  I'll check 
>tonight.
 Thanks!
   
>    re flute - you're out of luck.. there is a patch called 'BrethyFlute'
>    or something in the factory patches, but it sucks; 
It figures, dammit.
    
>    The PXA soundblock gives good flute, as Andy stated.  
Now all I have to do is spend another $495 (along with the $1200 I just 
dropped!)

>    I just use my 'Flutes from Hell' floppy for the EMAX ;-)
>    (I KNEW there was a reason I bought the EMAX !)    
Now you're tempting me!

Thanks for the info Karl.

Mike D

    >>> Does anyone know if you can get the 1000PX to initiate a SYS EX dump 
    >>> (so it can be stored via a utility) from the PX menus?  From some magic
    >>> SYS EX sequence?
    >>>
    >>> And then, send it back again?  
    
    No.  You can't do this from the front panel.  I believe that the SysEx
    implementation on the PX requires a handshaking sort of mess that was
    implemented to let Kurzweil's Object mover software coexist with button
    presses at the front panel. That is, ObjectMover edits get sent to PX
    and PX edits get sent to ObjectMover, thus you're always in sync.
    
    Of course, this was my interpretation and could be wrong.  I'm 99.9%
    positive, however, that if a bulkdump exists, it certainly isn't
    available from the front panel.
    
    Supposedly, if you call Kurzweil and ask for the SysEx spec, they'll
    send it to you.  I heard this from either Dave Orin or someone on the
    ARPAnet.  One of these days, I'll call for it and see what I get.
    
    I think this complex SysEx implementation is the reason there aren't
    many patch editor/librarian packages available for the 1000 series.
    
    - John -

    < Note 1066.95 by MARLIN::DIORIO "No, I'm not bored...really...Zzzzzzzzzzzzz" >
>--get this-- an accordian sound. Does anyone have patches of these by any 
>chance? 
    
    #161, 'Acclarinet'.  sounds better than most accordions I've heard,
    so you could EQ it and thin out the lower freqencies.
    
    karl

< Note 1066.101 by SALSA::MOELLER "Wanna work in Wagga Wagga N.S.W." >
                              -< there already ! >-

   >    #161, 'Acclarinet'.  sounds better than most accordions I've heard,
   > so you could EQ it and thin out the lower freqencies.

Great news!!

Now if I can only get a decent flute out of it (using the clarinet soundfile
maybe??).

Mike D

 >>  I think this complex SysEx implementation is the reason there aren't
 >>  many patch editor/librarian packages available for the 1000 series.

I've been trying to find a patch editor for the K1000 (that will run on the
Mac) since I bought it a year and a half ago.  I've got the ObjectMover package
from Kurzweil, but it doesn't address the real problem--creating good patches
is extremely difficult.  The manual has those modular diagrams in the examples.
I would love to find a graphical patch editor that works similarly on the Mac.
I have yet to see a single patch editor for the 1000 series.

-Mark

I spoke with David Fox at Kurzweil yesterday and asked about bulk dump, sys ex
implementation, etc.

He said that the current software implements a fairly difficult "handshake
protocol" which is not documented and is not accessible from the panel 
interface.

He then said that they plan on a new version of the software (O/S) which will
be available this fall, and will be supplied IFF you have both the PXA and
PXB sound blocks.  This new software has many new features including enhanced
SYS EX capabilities.

He then said that later on (tied to the new K1200 so he says) the a new
software update will be available for all PX modules with or without the
additional sound blocks.  Not sure if this is different than the one above,
but he mentioned that it would have many changes including "laying out the
sounds differently".

On another note, I asked about the "new manual" I had read was under production
and does it exist?  He said that it was almost complete, and would be available
soon (this fall).  He said all registered owners will receive a copy!

	- Jim

    According to someone at Turtle Beach Software, that company "was"
    working on a Patch Librarian/Editor for the 1000PX but have been
    stymied by the "internal MIDI implementation".  This source elaborated
    that they started the PROTEUS Ed/Lib and the 1000PX Ed/Lib at the
    same time (last fall) and completed the PROTEUS product earlier
    this spring.  When I asked him why, he said that the internal MIDI
    implementation for the PROTEUS is more user accessible than that
    for the 1000PX.  I got the impression that they felt that KURZWEIL
    had deliberately made working inside the 1000 Series modules difficult,
    perhaps for reasons of competitive advantage.
    
    Any way, he went on to take my name and number because, as he said,
    "Kurzweil is making some changes which will improve the 1000PX's
    ability to be accessed by software like ours".  Presumably he was
    refering to the above-mentioned O/S revisions.
    
    Clusters,
    Bill Allen
    

Hmm, it's not much of a competitive advantage unless at least Kurzweil comes
out with a good patch editor.

I got the following in the mail today from the K1000 mailing list that I'm on.
It has some new info from Kurzweil about options for the 1000 series.

-Mark



Date:	15-AUG-1989 22:40:00.73
From:	DECWRL::"[email protected]"
To:	[email protected] 
CC:	
Subj:	Kurzweil Option update 

Cc: [email protected]


Hi all,

I thought some of you on this list might want to be appraised of some
recent information Kurzweil is providing with their equipment... Since
I only got this because I recently bought another 1000 product, I
figure some of you may not have seen this. (Your dealer, of course,
may have provided it to you).

Basically it is a letter, dated 27 June, 1989, listing prices and
availablity of expansion options for existing 1000 series equipment, a
list of authorized service centers, and an invitation to join the
Kurzweil Users Club.

On the club: "As a member of the Club, you'll receive our quarterly
newsletter, THE KURZWEIL INSIDER, which includes news about Kurzweil
artists, product information, announcements about options and
upgrades, Kurzweil accessories, and other surprises!"

Basically, to join, you should send your name and address to 

Kurzweil Music Systems, Inc.
411 Waverley Oaks Road
Waltham, MA 02154

***

Here are the description of the options and prices of the accessories
for the 1000 series. They note that if you order one or more sound
blocks by June 1,1990, you will also get a coupon good for free
instalation at a service center or dealer with service dept. (1
free/customer)
 <The following is all quoted directly>

Sound blocks:

KXA (for the K1000), PXA (for the 1000PX) and KXA-SE (for the
K1000-SE) -- add Flute, Tine Electric Piano (with two different
hardness strikes), Electric Bass (pick and slap), Drum Kits, Congas,
Extended Roots for the Trumpet, and two dozen more waveforms for a
total of sixty-four new soundfiles (accessible for your own programs)
and fourty new presets.

KXB, PXB, and KXB-SE -- add Tenor Sax, Six-String Steel Guitar,
Marimba, Plucked Harp, Latin Percussion, Extra Low Roots for the Flute
and Baritone Horn, Distorted Guitar Mutes, and Distorted Guitar
waveforms. KXB, PXB, and KXB-SE, which all require the previous
installation of either KXA, PXA or KXA-SE (depending on which unit you
have) add approximately thirty more soundfiles and fill the unit up to
a total of 191 preset programs

SXA -- adds Oboe, Bassoon, French Horn, Timpani, Clarinet, Flute, and
synth waveforms to your 1000SX for a total of 45 moure soundfiles and
92 more preset programs.

HXA (for the 1000HX) -- adds Soprano Sax, Alto Sax, Soft Alto Sax,
Baritone Sax, Brass Stabs, Extended Roots for all the instruments
currently in the HX, and synth waveforms for a total of 32 more
soundfiles and 72 more preset programs.

AX Upgrade -- adds all the soundfiles from both SXA and HXA to your
1000AX Plus, resulting in a "fully-loaded" unit with 8 megabytes ROM
and 191 presets.

Hardware Upgrades:

Available this fall with be the SE Conversion Kit.....this allows
K1000 owners the ability to install a monophonic aftertouch strip, as
well as the 1000 "plus" level operationg system software, to their
units, thereby converting a standard K1000 into an K1000 Special
Edition!

Later this year, Kurzweil will also be releasing a 1000 Series
operating system software upgrade (two easily installed ROM chips).
This upgrade will add many new functions to your 1000 Series keyboard
or expander!

<end inclusion of quoted material>

The obove may be ordered from your dealer or directly from Kurzweil at
the above address -- they will take visa or mastercard, enclose an
extra $3. for shipping and 5% sales tax if you live in Mass.

Prices:
KXA	$595.
KXA-SE	$495.
KXB	$495.	(requires prior installation of KXA)
KXB-SE	$495.	(requires prior installation of KXA-SE)
PXA	$495.
PXB	$495.	(requires prior installation of PXA on 1000PX>
SXA	$495.
HXA	$495.
AX Upgrade		$659.
Se Conversion Kit	$495.

Software:
ObjectMover for Atari Macintosh or IBM: $50.

"Prices on all options and accessories do not include installation.
Allow 2-3 weeks for delivery."

I hope you find this useful!

Brad Miller


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Now that I've had my 1000 PX and 1000 HX for a week, I only have about a
million questions about them that aren't answered by the manual (no 
surprise). Here are a couple off the top of my head. Any help will be 
greatly appreciated.

1) When I was scrolling through the list of Compiled Effects on the 1000 
HX, I realized that I couldn't get to either of the Leslies and many of the 
others. Do these exist on the HX, or is the list of Compiled Effects on the 
HX a subset of those available on the PX?  [Yes, I am sure I was not in the 
Modular Effects mode.]

2) How do you get your controller to make the PX transpose? Right now I am
using a Mirage as a controller, and when I transpose the Mirage say down an
octave, it also shifts the MIDI notes it sends out down an octave--but the 
PX doesn't respond by playing notes down an octave (like I think it 
should). Am I doing something wrong?

3) When I use the Transpose function (in the Master Menu) does it alter the
playback speed to arrive at the new key (or new octave, as in my application) 
or does it use some other mechanism (shifting MIDI notes, etc) to accomplish 
this?

4) Is anyone else finding the +/- 6 Quartertone pitch bend range as 
limiting as I am, and are there any plans (that you've heard of) to address 
this "problem" in the new Firmware Rev?

Mike D

    re: .108
    
>>> 1) When I was scrolling through the list of Compiled Effects on the 1000 
>>> HX, I realized that I couldn't get to either of the Leslies and many of the 
>>> others. Do these exist on the HX, or is the list of Compiled Effects on the 
>>> HX a subset of those available on the PX?  [Yes, I am sure I was not in the 
>>> Modular Effects mode.]
    
    I thought that the set of compiled effects were the same but I'm not
    sure.  One thing to note, however, is that I think SOME of the effects
    need available layers in order to implement them.  (The compiled
    effects are like macros that expand into doing the same thing with
    modular effects.)  Thus, it could be that some effects aren't
    accessible because you're already using all 4 layers and the effect
    actually needs another layer to accomplish it's task.
    
    To check the full list of compiled effects (without trusting the
    manual), find a preset that has only one layer, then step to the
    compiled effects menu and scroll through it.  In a 1 layer patch, all
    of the compiled effects will be accessible.
    
>>> 2) How do you get your controller to make the PX transpose? Right now I am
>>> using a Mirage as a controller, and when I transpose the Mirage say down an
>>> octave, it also shifts the MIDI notes it sends out down an octave--but the 
>>> PX doesn't respond by playing notes down an octave (like I think it 
>>> should). Am I doing something wrong?
    
    This sure sounds like the Mirage ISN'T sending Note-Ons an octave
    lower.  Since the PX responds to note number, then a lowered note number
    certainly should trigger a different sound.  If you've got a sequencer
    or other intermediate unit, try looking at the Mirage's output and see,
    for sure, that the transpose is being done on MIDI data.
    
    Don't know about your other questions...
    
    - John -
    
    

re: .108

re: question 1, what john said.  The PX "hides" the layers that are being
used for compiled effects, so even though it may look like a patch has only
1 layer, it may used 2 or 3.

RE: question 2, perhaps you disabled the PX's ability to receive the
information?  Or, like john said, maybe it's only sending the transpose
internally.  You can transpose the entire PX up and down quite a long
way, or an individual patch.  Ps. using a DX7/E! + Voyce LX9 as a controller,
I have no problems transposing the PX1000.

RE: 3 , dunno, and 4, I'd need to be in front of the thing to check this out.
then again, I don't bend pitch much (anymore).

andy

    re .108.. congrats on your PX & HX (how much was the HX, and where?)
    
    re q 2: I don't make the PX transpose - I transpose my already-
    recorded MAC Performer track, instead.
    
    re q 3: the 1000PX' transpose function alters the MIDI note on
    to internal note map.  Similar to what I do above, but internally.
    So it does not transpose by altering the sample playback speed,
    that leads to munchkinization.
    
    re q 4: Yes, I'm frustrated occasionally with the limited pitchbend
    (a minor third) range.  No, I haven't heard about a fix.
    
    karl

> re: question 1, what john said.  The PX "hides" the layers that are being
> used for compiled effects, so even though it may look like a patch has only
> 1 layer, it may used 2 or 3.

The documentation seems to give a different impression.  They define effects,
compiled or modular, as being part of a layer.  They also say that the number
of PROGRAMS (or patches, if you like) you can have depends on the size of
your programs.  I deduced from this that some layers may take up more memory
than others, restricting the total number of PROGRAMS (or patches, if you
like) you can have, but you can still put 4 layers into any program.  This
could be totally wrong, of course; I was just going by what the manual says.
:-)

Thanks everyone. The Mirage indeed was not sending the transposed MIDI 
notes out. It was only transposing locally. I have an alternate operating 
system which allows both conditions, and I picked the wrong one.

>< Note 1066.111 by SALSA::MOELLER "One mile wide. One inch deep." >
>    re .108.. congrats on your PX & HX (how much was the HX, and where?)

The HX was $495 at Daddy's Junky Music in Nashua NH. It was a demo blowout 
deal. They give you a warranty as if it were new. The HX is quite good, by 
the way. I should do a review of it sometime. But since they are 
discontinued, I wouldn't think too many people would care to hear about it. 
Interesting to note here that the solo trumpet on the PX and the solo trumpet 
on the HX are different (the HX is superior). But, the HX does not have a 
baritone horn like the PX does. Also, the saxes are great on the HX, even 
though they are all tenors (completely different samples). The Soft Room Tenor 
has that silky "String of Pearls" sound that I've never heard in any other 
sampler/sample player. I think I got a great deal. Makes me wish I could pick 
up an SX for that price (can't afford it right now, though)! 
    
 >   re q 3: the 1000PX' transpose function alters the MIDI note on
 >   to internal note map.  Similar to what I do above, but internally.
 >   So it does not transpose by altering the sample playback speed,
 >   that leads to munchkinization.
  
This confirms what I suspected. Thanks.
  
>    re q 4: Yes, I'm frustrated occasionally with the limited pitchbend
>    (a minor third) range.  No, I haven't heard about a fix.

Actually, I would very rarely use more than a major 2nd for pitchbending 
(guitar-ish type solos etc.). I do think that you need at least a perfect 
4th to properly emulate a trombone player sliding up to a note 
(playing Dixieland style, etc.) using a true classic trombone gliss. I also 
play trombone (trumpet, French horn,  etc.), and have found this to be true 
through experience. Actually, a trombone is capable of a maximum gliss of 
an augmented fourth (from 7th position to 1st position), which IS possible 
on the HX (PX too) by bending from -6 Quartertone to +6 Quartertones. It's 
just more difficult in real time when you have to use that much travel 
on your pitch bend wheel/stick/device (center dead-spot notwithstanding). My 
ulterior motive in all this is to find a kluged way to get Maynard 
Ferguson-type range out of the HX. Right now the HX goes up to an F. With 
pitch bend at maximum, I can get an Ab (F + 6 quartertones). But I still need 
more for my application. 

I have been working on an accordian patch for the PX. I have come up with one 
that I think is better than the one that was mentioned a few replies back 
(Karl thanks for the suggestion. I just thought I would try my hand to get 
even a more realistic sounding accordian.) It uses the clarinet soundfile.
I will post it when I've tweaked it some more.

Mike D 

Yeah, I checked out the HX at Daddy's too.  It disappointed me that its
top note (without pitchbend) is F.  Heck, I can play the G right above that
and Maynard can do much much better (and my demoing consisted of playing
"Chameleon"'s trumpet line -- it hits the G).  To me, using pitchbend to hit
notes and note for bending pitch is a hack.

Chad

    re .113
    
    Mike, 
    	I would be interested in your impressions of some of the other
    1000HX sounds.  There are a couple of them and 1000SXs floating
    around these parts, and I'd like to know whether I should go into
    hock (deeper, that is) to add one to my 1000PX.
    
    Clusters,
    Bill Allen

Has anyone played with the Object Mover Software for IBM PC compatables?  It 
seems that it is now available.  I also seem to remember that the MAC version
was in the public domain (I even copied it), what about the PC version?

Thanks,
Dom

PD?  They sell it for $50.  Don't think it is PD

Chad

>< Note 1066.114 by NORGE::CHAD "Ich glaube Ich t�te Ich h�tte" >
>                     -< HX has great sounds but only an F >-
>
> To me, using pitchbend to hit notes and note for bending pitch is a hack.

Chad,

Yes, I agree it's a hack. But if you need the G for the last note of a 
(sequenced) piece you spent some time on, you're gonna use the pitch bend 
hack to get it. I was and am still disappointed by the lack of range too.
Probably 'cause I'm an old brass man from way back--by the range you're
describing you must have some brass chops too!  

Supposedly the HXA sound block provides some extended "roots" for the brass 
instruments. It would be a SERIOUS oversight if they didn't up the trumpet
range by at least a perfect 5th. Forget trying to hear what you're getting 
in the HXA sound block, though. I doubt you'll find one around. And for $495, 
I'd sorta want to hear what I was getting--wouldn't you?

Mike D

  >< Note 1066.115 by MUSKIE::ALLEN >
>                     -< Yeah, tell us about the 1000HX... >-
>    	I would be interested in your impressions of some of the other
>    1000HX sounds.  There are a couple of them and 1000SXs floating
>    around these parts, and I'd like to know whether I should go into
>    hock (deeper, that is) to add one to my 1000PX.

OK, I'll try to get to a mini review sometime this week or next. You say 
there are SXs floating around "these parts". Where might that be and for 
how much? (Not that I really have any money left, just curious.)

Mike D

Yes, I would do that "hack" too if I needed the G or whatever it gives you.
My comment was meant as a criticism of the Kurzweil's implementation of
the HX.  You shouldn't have to do that for the G.

My experiments at playing a real trumpet however show that the G (maybe it is
the F) is the extent of the normal trumpet range.  I used to
be able to play the G (still could if I'd practice) but it was an order of
magnitude harder than the F.  Maynard plays up to about the C or D I think.
But his mouthpiece is a special one with a pinhole sized shaft.

CHad

    re.116
    Dom:
     	When I was at Kurzweil two weeks ago, they indicated the IBM-PC
    version of Object Mover would not be available until late September
    (more likely October).  The fellow I talked to suggested I give
    Turtle Beach a call, because they were supposed to be working on
    an Editor/Librarian.  So, I did, and Turtle Beach said their project
    was temporarily on hold beacuse of problems deciphering the MIDI
    implementation of the 1000 Series.  They also sent me a demo disk
    of the Ed/Lib they have built for the PROTEUS.  It looks REAL good,
    and I hope they are able to work through whatever issues they have
    with Kurzweil so that they can get the 1000PX Ed/Lib out, soon.
    
    	The upshot of all this is that we're probably gonna have to
    push some buttons and learn something about the innards of these
    beasts in the short term (90 days).  In my case, that will probably
    be a good idea; it will help me to understand better what the 1000PX
    is doing.  That can only help when the Ed/Lib is available.
    
    re.119
    
    Mike,
    	These parts are Minneapolis-St.Paul, Minnesota (home of
    Prince, Leo Kotke, the St.Paul Chamber Orchestra, and yes, yours
    truly :-) ).  There is a dealer by the name of Knut Koupee which
    has a couple of each of the modules left; I think they want $495
    for the SX and HX, and about $700 for the PX.  It is possible that
    the Guitar Centers in Chicago, IL still have the units, as well. 
    They also have the AX and PX Plus, but did not seem interested in
    dealing on those (eg. 15-20% off).  
    
    Clusters,
    Bill Allen
    

>< Note 1066.120 by NORGE::CHAD "Ich glaube Ich t�te Ich h�tte" >
>                             -< Necessary hacks. >-

Yes, (it's cool Chad, no misunderstanding here) I know you were criticizing 
Kurzweil (and not me) and with good reason. . But that's how they get you to 
buy the $495 sound block--for the extended roots. 

>Maynard plays up to about the C or D I think.
>But his mouthpiece is a special one with a pinhole sized shaft.

Yeah, I've seen and played those. Just about anybody with half decent brass 
chops (even trombone/baritone chops like me) can play high with those 
mouthpieces once you get used to them. The trouble then is how do you play 
low? :-)  I knew guys who used to grind their mouthpieces down so that the 
"cup" was barely a tiny depression (like a dimple) in the center. Their 
tone quality sucked and they couldn't play low and middle ranges too well.
Only good for stratospheric-playing specialists! Personally, I thought the 
reduced flexibility wasn't worth it. But I digress (sorry to bore all you 
non-brass types out there).

RE .121

Bill, thanks for the info. I'll keep that in mind. By the way, what's an
AX?? I don't think the GX is even worth $495, but the SX probably would be
(A sheet listing the 1000 SX Programs was included with my PX manual--and 
some of the sounds look real interesting--not to mention that the SXA sound 
block includes (among other things) Bassoon and Oboe.)

Mike D

    re.122
    
    Mike:
    	I believe the 1000AX is a collection of the best hits from the
    SX and HX modules.  I did not take any notes when I demo'd an AX
    recently at Knut Koupee, but it seemed that most of the basic Strings
    from the 1000SX and Horns from the 1000HX were on the 1000AX.  This
    is why to upgrade you have to get a special Soundblock (and not
    just use the ones designed for the SX/HXs.
    
    	Of all the other modules, the 1000SX and its companion Soundblock
    look the most interesting to me, as well.  It seems that Kurzweil
    wanted to give the 1000SX+SXA combo a good representation of orches-
    tral instruments.  That is why they have stuff like Bassoon, Oboe,
    Flute, Timpani, and of course, lots of Strings.  I just don't know
    whether it is worth $700-$1000, depending on how much you can get
    your dealer to throw in the Soundblock for.  (It seems that most
    dealers are not as willing to deal on the Soundblocks :-( ).
    
    	Anyway, I have most of those sounds in the ROLAND D-110 and
    for as often as I need them, that should be sufficient.*
    
    Clusters,
    Bill Allen
    
    *  "Who said anything about "sufficiency"?     8-)
    

Caruso's gave me a good quote on PXA, give them a call and mention DECMS! for
1000 series soundblocks.  About 30%


Chad

    re: .109 (update on SOME compiled effects using more than 1 layer)
    
    >>> One thing to note, however, is that I think SOME of the effects need
    >>> available layers in order to implement them.  (The compiled effects are
    >>> like macros that expand into doing the same thing with modular
    >>> effects.)
    
    I finally found an elusive explanation of the compiled effect >= 1
    layer claim I made in .109.  From the "Musician's Guide to the 1000
    Series", page 7-15 (hidden in Function 216: Change Effects Edit Level
    description)...
    
    "Changing from the Compiled to Modular Effects Level will give you
    access to the "invisible" Layers generated by the more complex Compiled
    Effects.  As mentioned earlier (where, I di not know - ja), Effects
    like Chorus 2 require a second or third layer in order to function. 
    These effects are indicated b a numeral after their name as they appear
    in the display.  If you are using the [LAYER] button to scroll through
    the Layers in a Program, the extra Effects Layers would not appear.
    
    Imagine a Program consisting of Chorused Piano layered with Strings. 
    Layer 1 is the Piano, with the Effect Chorus 2 assigned.  The Strings
    will be on Layer 3, and *only* Layers 1 and 3 will appear in the
    display.  Layer 2 is the "invisible" Effects Layer.  If you now select
    Layer 1 with the [LAYER] button , then select Function 216 and change
    from Compiled Effects level to Modular, Layer 2 will become
    accessible."
    
    So this means that the following compiled effects need 2 layers or 3
    layers, respeectively (from pp. 7-11-7-12):
    
    	Chorus2 (stereo)	Stereo chorus effect
    	Tremolo2 (stereo)	Stereo pan tremolo
    	VibChr2 (stereo)	Vibrato/chorus combination
    	Phaser2 (stereo)	Phasing effect
    	Leslie2 (stereo)	Stereo Leslie effect
    	Chorus3 (stereo)	Deep slow chorus
    	Echo3 (stereo)		Echo center-left-right
    
    Also note the neat trick of choosing a compiled effect and then
    switching to Modular Effects Edit Level to see how that effect was
    built.  This could be a good (but tedious, perhaps) method for learning
    how to build your own effects.
    
    - John -

Hi everybody. I am going to give a sort of mini-review of the 1000 HX
module as promised. First I have started by listing the 1000 HX programs,
in case you don't know what they are. I will single out certain programs
that are outstanding (either good or bad), and make other general comments.
If I don't cover the program you want to know about, let me know and I'll 
give it a special listen to answer your question.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
                             1000 HX Programs
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

1.   Solo Trumpet                     61.  Saxobells 1
2.   Trumpet Mutes                    62.  Saxobells 2
3.   Solo Trombone                    63.  Digital Layers
4.   Soft Tenor Sax                   128. Bone Section Swell
5.   Medium Tenor Sax                 129. Brass Section Swell
6.   Growl Tenor Sax                  130. Trio Swell 1
7.   Dual Tenor Sax                   131. Trio Swell 2
8.   Mellow Trumpet                   132. Big Band Swell 
9.   Classic Trombone                 133. Big Band Swell 2
10.  Trombone with Vibrato            134. Big Band Swell 3
11.  Trumpet Mute with Vibrato        135. Soft/Med Trombone
12.  Stereo Lead Trumpet              136. Bone / Trumpet
13.  Trumpet & Mutes                  137. Trumpet MPress Vibrato
14.  Trumpet & Tenor                  138. Bone PPress Vibrato
15.  Trumpet & Soft Tenor             139. MPress Section
16.  Trumpet & Bone                   140. Soft->Medium Sax MW
17.  Trumpet & Dual Tenor             141. Mute & Bone
18.  Trumpet & Soft Tenor & Mute      142. Mute & Soft Tenor & Bone
19.  Trumpet & Dual Tenor & Mute      143. Mute & Medium Tenor & Bone
20.  Trombone with Vibrato            144. Mute & 2 Tenors
21.  Mellow Trombone                  145. Trio Stab 1
22.  Bone Section 1                   146. Trio Stab 2
23.  Bone Section 2                   147. Big Band Stab 1
24.  Hall Bones                       148. Big Band Stab 2
25.  Bone & Soft Tenor                149. Big Band Stab 3
26.  Bone & Dual Tenor                150. Stereo Quartet
27.  Mellow Medium Tenor              151. Harpsichord 1
28.  Dual Tenor with Vibrato          152. Harpsichord 2
29.  Soft Tenor with Vibrato          153. Harpsichord 3
30.  Hard Attack Soft Tenor           154. Electric Piano
31.  Room Soft Tenor                  155. Chorus E Piano
32.  Soft & Medium Tenors             156. E. Piano with Bell
33.  Bone & 2 Tenors                  157. Mellow Piano
34.  Trumpet & 2 Tenors               158. Fluid E Piano 1
35.  Sax Trio 1                       159. Fluid E Piano 2
36.  Sax Trio 2                       160. Sax E Piano
37.  Hall Saxes                       161. Sax Klav
38.  Horns 1                          162. Fluid Klav
39.  Horns 2                          163. Klaved Klav
40.  Brass Section 1                  164. Fluty Pipe Organ
41.  Brass Section 2                  165. Slow Hall Tenor
42.  Brass Section 3                  166. Fluid Sax
43.  Brass Section 4                  167. Wet Sax
44.  Trio Section 1                   168. Horn Sweep
45.  Trio Section 2                   169. Synth Horns
46.  Trio Section 3                   170. Analog Synth
47.  Big Band 1                       171. Mono Press Synth
48.  Big Band 2                       172. Very Touch Sense
49.  Big Band 3                       173. Ambient Synth
50.  Big Band 4                       174. Lead Synth Horn
51.  Big Band 5                       175. Synth Bass
52.  Sfz Sax Swells                   176. Synthinet
53.  Sfz Bone Swell                   177. Synth Sax
54.  Sfx Bone Section                 178. Synth Marimba
55.  Sfx Brass Swell                  179. Synth Bassooboe
56.  Sfz Trio Swell 1                 180. Synth Sitar
57.  Sfz Trio Swell 2                 181. Bagpipes
58.  Sfz Big Band 1                   182. Close Encounters
59.  Sfz Big Band 2                   183. Program Z
60.  Sfz Big Band 3                   184. Tuning Note
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Solo Trumpet (1.) is excellent. It is NOT the same as the solo trumpet in 
the 1000 PX. A considerably longer sample (before looping) was used. The 
only drawback is that it doesn't extend high enough, but supposedly that
"problem" is addressed in the HXA soundblock, which is supposed to include 
"extended roots" for all the instruments.

Trumpet Mutes (2.) is also excellent. It is the best muted trumpet I've heard 
yet. Does get a bit weird in the lower register when the vibrato gets 
slower due to stretching out that portion of the multisample. But very 
useable and realistic overall. Doesn't go up as high in the high range as 
the unmuted trumpet. Don't know why.

Solo Trombone (3.) is excellent too. Kind of "blatty" in the lower register, as
trombonists often play this way. The high register gets mellower as you go 
up, characteristic of the instrument. Sounds somewhat like a French Horn in 
this range, and is quite useable in this capacity, if needed. I am still 
disappointed, however, that a French Horn was not included. Again, 
supposedly the HXA soundblock addresses this.

Now on to the saxes. This is where I think the HX really shines the most!

The Soft Tenor Sax (4.) and its ambient counterpart, Room Soft Tenor (31.), 
are phenomenal in my opinion. A silky, sensuous sax sound like in "String
of Pearls". Shortly after the attack, which has a breathy quality, there is 
a little waver in pitch. Quite subtle, and exactly how a sax player would 
play. It's part of the sample, and I'm glad it's there, because it adds a 
human quality to it. Break out your "Real Book" and play Misty and a few 
other jazz standards with one. Incredible.

The Medium Sax (5.) is a "regular" tenor sax sound. Excellent, clean and very 
realistic, but I think overshadowed by the Soft Tenor Sax and the Growl Tenor 
Sax.

The Growl Tenor Sax (6.) is another winner. Clarence Clemmons move over for 
this one. Really wild sounding. This one also gets a little weird in the low 
register (same situation as the Muted Trumpet, IMO), but overall excellent,
and sounds like the real thing rather than a recording of the real thing.

Then there are various combinations of the samples, some velocity 
crossfades between one sound and another (like from the Medium Sax to the 
Growl Sax). Good useable stuff. Call up Big Band 1 (47.) and play the 
beginning of "In the Mood". It's the exact sound. There are subtle 
variations between all of the different Brass Sections and Trios and Big 
Bands, some emphasizing saxes more, some trumpets more, some muted trumpets 
more, etc.

The Sfz (Sforzando) Swells (52. - 60.) are useable, but I suspect they did 
these with the envelopes rather than with samples of actual sforzandi. I 
haven't checked this by looking at the parameters, but by ear, they sound a 
little artificial. A real instrument gets brighter (and goes slightly 
sharper in pitch) as the note gets louder. You could probably 
tweek the filters (have them open up as they track the 
envelopes) to improve it. The same thing applies to the other Swells (these
are just crescendos). I'm glad they programmed these up for you (saves a 
lot of work), and they are fine if you're not too picky, but they 
can definitely be improved.

The Electric pianos are nothing to write home about. I don't like the Klav 
sounds. Two of the harpsichord sounds are excellent--a big surprise! The 
synth type sounds are generally non-descript and pedestrian 
sounding--with a few exceptions, e.g. I kinda like the Saxobells. The Synth 
Marimba sux big time. A waste of ROM space, IMO, as well as the Brass 
Stabs, which are just short attacks of notes. I'm surprised and 
disappointed there were no Falloffs or Glissandos (upwards in pitch) 
included in the ROM set. But maybe they're included in the HXA block? 
Stereo Lead Trumpet (12.) is a great trumpet sound and is better 
than the patch of the same name offered in the 1000 PX. I'm not sure if the 
Mellow Trumpet, Mellow Trumpet and Mellow Medium Sax are actually different 
samples or just the same sample with the filters tweeked. I suspect the 
latter. I don't have a controller that does aftertouch so I can't comment 
on those programs, unfortunately. Bagpipes (181.) is interesting, but needs 
to be tweeked (a little less pitch variation in the initial attack, IMO) to 
be more realistic. Program Z is customarily weird (almost scary) as usual. 

In closing, I'd like to say I like this module a lot. It was definitely 
worth the $495 I paid for it (a demo unit). If you can find one for this
price, you might want to seriously consider buying it.

Mike D

I was talking to a guy (Chris Nemitz) who works at Acton Music 
here in MA. He *claims* that the 1000 PX "blowouts" from Guitar Center were
defective modules that were "reconditioned" at the factory and then sold en 
masse to Guitar Center. Personally, though this sounds like bullshit to me.
His store sells Kurzweil and I think he made it up because they can't come 
anywhere near that price. These guys (Acton Music) were the same people who 
didn't even know that Kurzweil made HXA and SXA soundblocks for those 
respective expander modules until I told them!

What do you say, folks. Have any of you heard this story, and how can we 
find out if it is/isn't true?

Mike D.

    Unless you have an in at Kurzweil (where did Stevie K. or Rick Cohen
    go?), you'll probably never know.  Given the fairly wide range of
    distribution of these modules, I kinda doubt it.  Besides, if they have
    full factory warranty, who gives a rip? 

    Enough of my musing.  What's a decent price on the PXA upgrade for a
    PX1000, and how hard is it to install?  I got a flyer last nite from
    the Drum/Keyboard shop where they want $317 for them. 

    Don't even have the bloody thing, and am already looking to upgrade.
    Sigh. 

-b 

    >>> What's a decent price on the PXA upgrade for a PX1000, and how hard is
    >>> it to install?  
    
    I paid ~$400 (US) for mine.  Of course this was bundled into the sale
    of a 1000PX and ObjectMover so I don't know if the price would have
    been as low without the "package".  This was a long time ago when a
    1000PX for less than $1750 was a good deal.  I've seen no big movement
    in the upgrade prices, however.  The $400 included installation so I
    have absolutely no idea what the upgrade even looks like, let alone how
    hard it is to do.
    
    By the way, I guess I should a new piece of information here.  People
    considering the upgrade should realize that even after the upgrade you
    are constrained to the 64 "user memories" on board the unit for your
    own patches.  (Of course, if you use ObjectMover you have many more
    virtual patches.)  This is my only major complaint with the upgrade. 
    For $400 I was hoping to get new presets AND new soundfiles AND more
    user memory.  Instead, you just get the presets and the soundfiles.
    
    - John -

re: .127

Well, I did notice that the clear protective strip that was supposed to be
over the front panel was missing, and there's a very faint 'scuff' on the
panel.

I got a warranty card, though.

    re. .127
    
    Mike, 
    	The law is pretty clear about selling "used" or "reconditioned"
    products as new; I am pretty sure it has to be clearly stated that
    this is the case.  I have dealt with audio firms which deal in demos
    and refurbished gear and they (and the manufacturers) are very careful
    to let consumers know what they are getting.  It would be very sur-
    prising if a company like Kurzweil and a retailer like Guitar Center
    tried to pull a fast one like that.
        Also, thanks for the 1000HX review!  Do you like the Harpsichord
    on the HX better than the one on the PX?  I find Harpsichord is
    a tough one to get right.  (I don't like the PX's, but the K5 has
    a good one.) 
    
    re. 128:
    Brad, 
    When I tried to get Guitar Center to throw in a PXA with my 1000PX,
    for $325, they balked.  The salesperson said he could do it for
    $350, but no less.  I later decided I really didn't want it anyway,
    and am glad I didn't buy it now.  However, if you could get one
    for $317 or less, that would sound competitive.  Nobody up here
    (MPLS) will get anywhere that close.
           
    Clusters,
    Bill Allen

>  Do you like the Harpsichord on the HX better than the one on the PX?  

Yes, Bill I thought the HX's harpsichord was much better--but I'll listen
again tonight to confirm/refute this. I thought I remembered the HX's 
harpsichord included the sound of the plectrum dropping down onto the 
strings when a note is released. 

I'm glad you think that the "refurbished" scenario is bogus also. Thanks 
for the info. I didn't know there was a law against stuff like that.

Hey I've got some patches coming, where's that template again (I know I saw
one in here somewhere). 

Mike D

Well, mine looked new (plastic and all was there as well as a full set of
paperwork and what not and not a scuff, dent, rack screw scratch.

But it was DOA.  Luckily Kurzweil is in MA so I drove there, left it 2 weeks
and got it back working, all under warranty of course.  The time length was
mainly due to me not calling to check up and stuff.  I think that they are new.

Chad

>>> Hey I've got some patches coming, where's that template again (I know I saw
>>> one in here somewhere). 
    
    I just put a (still pretty lame) template in the Kurzweil patch note
    (1899.last).  I'm hoping to complete it some day but here's a start if
    you want to beat me to it.
    
    - John -

    Well, I just got my 1000PX last night.

    My initial reaction was disappointment.  Sure, the piano was good, but
    it wasn't great.  In particular, there is a wart on the G an octave
    above middle C, where you can distinctly hear a hammer 'thump'. This
    'feature' is non-existent on the other keys.  There were a few other
    gripes I had about the piano that I'll reserve until I can give the
    unit a good hard workout. 

    Apart from (the warty) 'Grand Piano', 'Chorused Piano', 'New Age
    Piano', and a clarinet patch whose name I can't recall, I thought most
    of the presets were very lame.  Too bad, since the documentation is not
    too hot, either.  I intend to begin programming immediately, as soon as
    I get a coherent patch sheet laid out.  I'm hoping the lameness is not
    due to the machine's waveforms.  If so, I'll be getting rid of it
    if/when the Proteus comes in. 

    On another note (pun not intended), someone said something a few weeks
    ago about not liking the speed (too slow) of the Leslie effect in the
    unit.  It *is* possible to change the minimum and maximum speeds of the
    Leslie by switching the effect from "COMPILED" to "MODULAR", and
    tweaking the appropriate parameters.  Of course, you'll have to
    save the preset in one of the RAM locations... 

    More to come.

-b

    Brad, take heart.  The piano does indeed sound rough when listened to
    'dry', i.e. without any reverb.  There's actually about 5 notes with
    that thump you heard... though I've found that any reverb at all
    smooths it out.
    
    karl

    Well, I spent a few more minutes with the machine last night.

    The PX has 50 wavetables on board.  There are 'sets' of waves of like
    style: piano, vibe, string, clarinet, trumpet, baritone horn, a few
    synthesied waves.  I was kind of disappointed that there wasn't a bit
    more variation in samples - many of them sounded quite the same. Some
    tables - especially the choral waves - had noticable looping problems,
    and many had 'built-in' vibrato, which I didn't care much for.  Minus a
    few specific applications, these samples are unusable (to me, at
    least). 

    The programmability of the machine is incredible.  You can just about
    patch anything to anywhere - problem is that the lack of waveform
    variance makes this moot (to a point).  And, there is absoutely NO
    documentation on SYSEX.  Pfffft. 

    Presets: Karl was right about some reverb cleaning up the warts.
    They're still noticable, but the reverb does help to mask the effect. I
    played the Kurzweil next to my (quite out of tune) Sohmer upright.
    Without reverb, the Sohmer sounded much better in all but a few
    instances (note for note comparison, also chording structures). There
    definitely was no attempt to provide sympathetic resonance. 

    In a nutshell, the pianos are very good, my gripes notwithstanding.
    Some of the organs smoke.  Basses were weak, choirs were kind of lame,
    strings were nice but all had too much rosin, horns are lousy,
    synthesized sounds are lame, FX patches have possibilities. 

    Perhaps I'm being too picky - after all, it is one of the best digital
    pianos I've ever heard.  I'll be trying my hand at a few patches this
    weekend (hopefully) to see what I can come up with. 

    A side by side with the Proteus when it comes in is going to be
    very interesting.

-b

    re .137
    
    	Brad:
    		I don't think you are being "too picky"; the 1000PX
    is definitely not the second coming (anymore than Proteus will probably
    be).  Your comments really struck a chord with me because my initial
    reactions the first time through the presets was also "Is this all
    there is?".  There is not the kind of diversity that 164 presets
    would suggest.
    
    		In defense of the 1000PX, though, there really is quite
    a lot there at a very attractive price.  The PIANOS are IMO better
    than anything out there, especially when you consider what you can
    do to them with programming.  They may not compare to my Yamaha
    upright either, but this is perhaps an unfair comparison.  (Audio-
    philes go down this road often as they compare systems to live 
    orchestras and bands; it really isn't apples to apples).  I also
    liked the ORGANS; there are many I will be able to supplement the
    better sounds on the D110.  However, the CLAVS and SYNTH HARPSICHORD
    suck (in a word 8-)).  I really would have expected better from
    KURZWEIL.
    
    		I also feel that the CHOIR looping is annoying, but
    I would never use the CHOIR straight up; they would always be pro-
    cessed which would alleviate this problem.  Though I don't care
    for the TRUMPET particularly, the BARITONE HORN is much better and
    again, the programming possibilities are encouraging.  As I mentioned
    to you off-line, the STRINGS are DEFINITELY too "screeeeechy" to
    use as-is, and I suspect it is because there is much too much high
    frequency energy there.  But I suspect that what is really at fault
    here is something I read hidden in a review of the K1000 Series,
    in Electronic Musician.  The author indicated that although the
    Kurzweil sounds were great, "the fact that they were totally un-
    processed might cause problems for many folks".
    
    	If this is true, and if like me you are into studio work rather
    than gigging, the 1000PX might actually be a BETTER working tool
    than the PROTEUS.  That's because by the time you finish bouncing
    a couple 1000PX tracks and processing, these "thumps", "screeches",
    and looping anomolies might be hammered out of the mix.  At least
    that's what I am hoping (praying).  I would be very interested in
    your comparison to PROTEUS when it appears.
    
    	What do Karl M and others who have lived with this beast for
    a while think?
    
    Clusters,
    Bill Allen 

>< Note 1066.138 by MUSKIE::ALLEN >

Re: thumpy piano notes
I also use some EQ to smooth out those thumpy notes. I have a simple 3-band EQ 
on my amp (100 Hz?, 1 KHz? and 10K?) and I find that if I boost the highs 
by 3dB, cut the Mids by 3dB and cut the low end by 5 to 6 dB it seems to 
help. 

>I also liked the ORGANS.

Me too. Some of the best sounds in this unit (IMO).

>  Though I don't care
>    for the TRUMPET particularly, the BARITONE HORN is much better and
>    again, the programming possibilities are encouraging.  

See my review on the 1000 HX again. The brass sounds in it are much better 
than in the PX. On purpose, probably, to get you to buy both. I did and am 
happy with what I got--but only for the $495 price I got the HX for. It's 
really ridiculous if you had to pay @$2000 for each of the expanders, but 
at the prices they seem to be going for now, it's really not such a bad 
deal. I'd like to get an SX and all the soundblocks for the SX, HX, and PX.
That would be a good setup. But I'll wait till the soundblocks come down in 
price (inevitable and soon IMO). The only expander I'm really not
interested in is the GX.

>As I mentioned
>    to you off-line, the STRINGS are DEFINITELY too "screeeeechy" to
>    use as-is, and I suspect it is because there is much too much high
>    frequency energy there.  

Try using the Kybd Tilt (in the Layer Menu) to fix this. A negative number 
will favor the low 
end of the keyboard (volume-wise) by a corresponding number of dBs.

re: Proteus
I want one of those too. I will probably get one if I keep gigging at the 
same pace I am now (no sign of any slowdown in sight yet.

Mike D

    Some good points.. first, I never ever use the 'fast Strings'. that
    patch IS screechy.  I use 24, slow strings, and 26, Med-Fast strings.
    26 also has a wonderful stereo spread.  There's some audible looping in
    24, slow strings, but it can be avoided.  I also like the Hall choir
    more than the basic choir, and of course it uses more layers.
    
    Yes, there's lots'o' highs on the strings, but I'd rather have them
    there to EQ OFF if I want, than try and CREATE highs using EQ or some
    kinda 'exciter' box.
    
    Yes, the clav/harpsichord and most of the brass are terrible.  There's
    a good trumpet with delayed vibrato, and a nice baritone horn, and a
    great clarinet.. but the horn 'section' patches are awful.  Organs are
    fun, great marimbas.  Electric pianos aren't worth mentioning.  GREAT
    string bass (to be heard on Commusic VII).  Vibes work well.  Electric
    basses are bad.  Decent steel drums, though I've not used them in a
    piece yet.
    
    What I've found is that where the 1000PX is weak, the Emax is strong -
    so even though *I* paid FULL PRICE for the PX, I still don't expect it
    to be perfect - remember, at the time, its piano was BETTER than
    DEDICATED piano modules (MKS-20) costing almost as much.  And I STILL
    like the pianos, especially 16, Stereo Grand.  #17, extended stereo
    grand, uses velocity switching from the mellow #16 sound to the harder
    'rock' piano sound #15.  Also have a lot of fun playing boogie-woogie
    using the detuned grand (#56?)
    
    karl

    re: the last few
    
    From talking to a few people (including Dave Orin) who were in on the
    K250 (and, to some extent, the 1000 series) development, it seems that
    the "screechy" high-end on many of the soundfiles was intentional.  As
    Karl mentioned, Kurzweil wanted the "real" unprocessed sound to be in
    the soundfiles and let users EQ out that which they don't need.  Of
    course, it's not perfect.  With a touch of EQ and/or reverb, however, I
    find most of the sounds themselves to be pretty good.
    
    Re: the strings, rosin, etc.
    
    I've found that even the "fast strings" don't really have the attack
    and release needed for what I want (a staccato, almost "bow bounce"
    sound).  One of the many unfinished projects I've got going is a cover
    of ELP's Pirates and I'm slowly seeing if I can get a quick, tight
    violin section for the first section.  If I ever get the patch close,
    I'll post it here.
    
    Also note that the layers have a "use alternate attack segment" or some
    such parameter that starts the soundfile later in the sample.  In some
    cases this sounds trashy, in other cases it reduces the attack such
    that it can fit in the background less obtrusively.  It's a matter of
    taste whether you find these useable or not.  Just remember it is an
    option.
    
    Overall, I love the PX and use it as my primary unit.  My PolySix is
    still better at analog, pure synth sounds (no surprise) but I like
    playing around with "normal" instrument sounds.  I like the PX enough
    that I'll be getting the PX-B soundblock as soon as it comes out even
    though it's expensive.
    
    re: no SYSEX documentation
    
    Dave Orin posted a long time ago that a call to David Fox at Kurzweil
    and a statement that you're considering becoming a software/patch 3rd
    party developer will get you a set of SYSEX documentation.  I intend to
    do this eventually.  In the mean time, you might want to give him a
    call and see if this is still the case.
    
    - John -

    Just wondering ... I own a D-50 and 2 ESQ-Ms. My next move I've
    planned to be a sampler and drum machine. How would these Kurzweil
    units compare to say, a Roland S-550 or a Yamaha sampler (TX16W I
    think).
    
    I'm looking for the acoustic sounds - piano, harp, sax, etc.
    
    Thanks for any info!
    
    Bill
    

    You may want to review the last 140 or so topics ... 
    
    And, for what it's worth, the 1000 lacks the ability to sample.  You're
    limited to the waveforms that Kurzweil gives you.  The thing is really
    rough to program.  On the other hand, most of the sampled waves are
    pretty good (some are exceptional).  You also have lots of memory
    locations to play with - read: instantaneous sound.
    
    A sampler gives you the ability to load more diverse waves - and, in
    the case of the 550, has really decent built-in editing software.  On
    the other hand, you're limited to the number of 'presets' available,
    and you'll need to be swapping disks (unless you buy a big bux hard disk).
    
    Sound quality is a moot point.  I've heard all the units - the TX16w
    can sound *very* good, the S550 is excellent, and the 1000PX has its
    strong suits.  For $600-700, the PX is a good buy.  But better or worse
    than a sampler?  Hard to say.
    
-b

    re .141
    
    John:
    	I would be very interested in what you come up with in trying
    to create that "bow bounce" effect.  A lot of the classical stuff
    I work with really needs that.  
    
    	Also, I was unclear about what you were refering to in your
    reference to "using alternative attack" features within layers.
     Could you provide an example of what you mean?
    
    Clusters,
    Bill Allen                     

    If I might steal John's thunder ...

    One page 7-22 of the manual, you'll notice parameter 229 (alternate
    attack- viz, AA).  This allows you to mouldate the soundfile's attack
    based on a control source (see page 4-7 for list). 

    For example, by assigning velocity as a control source, you can delay
    the attack portion of the envelope depending on your touch.  I'll
    quote from the manual:
    
	Many of the 1000's waveform sounds (e.g. Organ 1, Sine Wave,
	Bell Wave) begin with a "keyclick" in the attack.  The AA
	eliminates - or greatly reduces - the click of the attack
	on these sounds.  The AA for the acoustic instrument sounds
	corresponds to the beginning of the loop section.  The AA
	allows you to skip the initial attack segments of the sounds
	and begin with their sustain segments.

    Hope this helps - certainly an interesting parameter.

-b

    >>> If I might steal John's thunder ...
    
    No problem.  I'd just like to add that one can do some interesting
    experiments by assigning a "momentary pedal" (like a sustain pedal) to
    the control source you specify.  Then you can switch between using the
    full sample or just the loop part by pressing your pedal.
    
    This sometimes sounds awful and sometimes sounds good.  It depends what
    you're looking for and what your own value judgments about these things
    are.   Also note that the AltAttack is a fixed point, you can only use
    a continuous controller like a step function (it abruptly changes from
    "OriginalAttack" to AltAttack at the 63/64 transition (from 0-127).
    
    Fun to try.
    
    - John -

    I should make my former gripes right, and eat crow ...

    Being used to "normal" synths, I assumed that I could run the thing in
    MONO (instead of stereo) by simply plugging in only the LEFT output.
    Wrongo, moosebreath. 

    I plugged in both channels a few night ago, and it sounded *wonderful*.
    I still notice the piano warts, and some of the presets are still lame,
    but the rest of the stuff is incidental. 

-b

I had the same problem.   After converting to stereo, I accidently had
both channels panned dead center, which also sounded quite bizarre.
Real stereo made quite a difference.

Patch 17 (I think) the stereo extended grand knocks me out in 
headphones!

Now if I could just find the right parameter to make the leslie in
Rock Organ be on at some low level by default, ...  When *is* that
new manual coming out.... ?!  8^)

andy

    re .126 :
    
    Mike:
    	I went down and listened to the 1000HX at a local store last
    Sunday.  I can see why you felt it was a good deal at $499.00!!!
    There are some very credible horns in this module.  To be sure many
    of them are derivative, but I liked what I heard.  I also took my
    first listen to the 1000GX, and although there were some intriuging
    sounds here too, I agree there is probably not enough to justify
    even $499.00.  However, the HARPSICHORD (particularly #2 and #3)
    are very, very good. (see below) 
    
    re Programming the 1000PX:
    
    	There are a couple sounds I heard on the HX and GX that I really
    like to get, without actually buying the modules.  In particular,
    I am wondering if there is a way to program the following sounds
    using the PX's on-board soundfiles:
                                                            
    From the 1000HX :  SOLO TRUMPET
    From the 1000HX :  HARPSICHORD #2 or HARPSICHORD #3
    From the 1000GX :  WATER BASS
    
    What soundfiles do these use, and in what configuration?  
    
    Clusters, 
    Bill Allen
                                    

    Bill, as far as I know there is NO way to transfer Ksample files from
    one module to another.  If the original sounds aren't in your module,
    then even using Object Mover won't get them.  Object Mover only
    transfers the programming parameters, not the sample files.
    
    you be SOL.
    
    karl

    	I took a look at the listings of sounds (Programs) for all of
    the Kurzweil 1000 Series modules, last night.  Unless I was mistaken,
    there are some duplications among the listed program, that is, one
    or two programs on different modules appear to share the same sound-
    files.  For example, SYNTH HARPSICHORD #2 is in both the 1000PX
    and the 1000SX.  
    
    	This would seem to indicate that they both are using the same
    terrible combination of synth waveforms.  The HARPSICHORD 1, 2,
    and 3 sounds are on the 1000HX as opposed to the 1000SX where you
    would think they might be (ie plucked string).  Maybe the Soundfiles
    that produce HARPSICHORD are in the 1000PX?
    
    	The chances that I can reproduce the WATER BASS sound should
    be even better.  I am sure that this is just an acoustic bass transient
    tacked in front of a synthesized fundamental.  Could someone with
    the 1000GX look into this?
    
    Hopeful,
    Bill (Who really must start programming his SGUs) Allen

    	I just talked to David Fox at KURZWEIL to see if I could get
    some clarification on the question of which soundfiles are in which
    modules.  While I had him on the phone, I asked him about the new
    manual and the Object Mover for the IBM-PC.  He claims that the
    OM should be ready by the end of October.  Although it will be a
    librarian, it will make programming a bit more convenient as well.
    However, it is not in any way shape or form an editor.  Some "new"
    Programs will also be bundled in with the OM, but Mr. Fox indicated
    they "were no great shakes".
    
         Triggered by Brad's comment about the lack of variety in the 
    1000PX's soundfiles, I have been trying to determine whether
    the various 1000 modules create different sounds with distinct
    soundfiles OR by manipulating the same basic set of soundfiles.
    (Remember, the SOUNDFILE, NOT the PROGRAM is the actual sample in
    the KURZWEIL system).
    
    	According to Mr. Fox, there are some overlaps.  He also indicated
    that the HARPSICHORD I love so well is actually made from a synth
    waveform (GASP!!).  "There are no harpsichord samples in the
    Kurzweils".  This might explain why many programs which should sound
    good, sound so bad.  Take CEMBALO as another example of this.  When
    I took a look at its constituent soundfiles it became apparent why
    this program sounded so terrible.
    
    	Would people with modules be willing to list out the SOUNDFILES
    in their units, for comparison?  I could do the one for the 1000PX.
    I think it would make it easier to decide whether or not you really
    need a soundblock or another module (for those of us who are crazy
    enough to be considering buying another of these things).
    
    	I wonder if the same situation will occur in PROTEUS, that is
    E-mu building 180 sounds out of 48 basic samples?
    
    Clusters,
    Bill Allen
    	

    The Proteus has between 70-110 (depending on who you talk to) distinct
    samples.  Given 4 Mb ROM, I'd think they should.  What I hope is that
    they don't do 20 variations on a piano.  Kurzweil burned a lot of ROM
    (no pun intended) in vain - at least for my applications and taste. 

-b

    	Here are a list of the SOUNDFILES in the KURZWEIL 1000PX:
    
    Grand Piano
    	Bright Piano
    	Very Bright Piano
    	Mellow Piano
    	Hard Struck Piano
    	Soft Struck Piano
    	Ex Dynamic Piano
    	Ex Dynamic Piano 2
    	Alien Piano
        (Extra Crispy Dynamic Alien Piano.........sorry 8^) .....)
    	
    Strings
    	Bright Strings
       *Mellow Strings
       *Ex Dynamic Strings
    
    Choir
    	Bright Choir
    	Very Bright Choir
    	Mellow Choir
    	Very Mellow Choir  (give me a break!)
    	Ex Dynamic Choir
    	
    Acoustic Bass
    	Bright Acous Bass
    	
    Vibes
    	Bright Vibes
    	Mellow Vibes
    	Ex Dynamic Vibes
                                                            
    Baritone Horn
    	Bright Baritone Horn
    	Mellow Baritone Horn
    
    Clarinet
    	Bright Clarinet
    	Mellow Clarinet
    	Ex Dynamic Clarinet
    
    *Trumpet
       *Bright Trumpet
       *Mellow Trumpet
       *Ex Dymanic Trumpet
    	
    Organ I
    Organ II 
    
    E Piano Wave
    Clav Wave	
    Horn Wave
    Bell Wave
    Harpsichord Wave
    *Sine Wave
    Sawtooth Wave
    Dull Sawtooth Wave
    Alias Sawtooth Wave
    Square Wave
    Alias Square Wave
    Alien Wave  
    
    The soundfiles with "*" indicate soundfiles also found on the 1000AX,
    and so presumably on the 1000SX and 1000HX.

    	Here is a list of the SOUNDFILES in the KURZWEIL  1000AX:
    
    Bowed Strings
        Very Bright Strings
    	Mellow Strings
    	Ex Dynamic Strings
    	
    Violin
    	Bright Violin
    	Mellow Violin
    	Ex Dynamic Violin
                 
    Cello
    	Bright Cello
    	Mellow Cello
    	Ex Dynamic Cello
    	
    Pizzacato Strings
    	Bright Pizz Strings
    	Mellow Pizz Strings
    	Ex Dynamic Pizz Strings
    
    Synth Strings
    	Bright Synth Strings
    	Mellow Synth Strings
    
    Soft Tenor Sax
   	Bright Soft T S
    	Very Bright Soft T S
    	Mellow Soft T S
    	Very Mellow Soft T S
    	Ex Dynamic Soft T S
    
    Medium Tenor Sax
    	Mellow M T S
    	Very Mellow M T S
    	Bright M T S 
    	Ex Dynamic M T S
    	Alien M T S 
     
    Growl Tenor Sax
    	Very Bright G T S
    	Mellow G T S
    	Ex Dynamic G T S
        Alien G T S
    
    Trumpet
    	Bright Trumpet
    	Mellow Trumpet
    	Very Mellow Trumpet
    	Ex Dynamic Trumpet
    	
    Muted Trumpet
    	Bright M T
    	Mellow M T
    	Alien M T
    	Ex Dynamic M T
    
    Trombone
    	Bright Tromb
    	Mellow Tromb
    	Very Mellow Tromb
    	Mellow Tromb 2
    	Ex Dynamic Tromb	
    	     
    Synth Trumpet
    	Mellow Synth Trumpet
    	Bright Synth Trumpet
    	Ex Dynamic Synth Trumpet
    
    Synth Saxophone
    	Mellow Synth Sax
    	Bright Synth Sax
    	Ex Dynamic Synth Sax
    
    
    Sine Wave
    Waveform 1
    Waveform 2
    Waveform 3
    Ex Dynamic Waveform
    
    There are also about 20 additional which appear to be combinations
    of two or more SOUNDFILES, like:
    
    Cello/Violin
    Cello/Violin 2
    Mellow Cello/Mellow Violin
    Bright Cello/Bright Violin
    Ex Dynamic Cello/Ex Dynamic Violin
    Trombone/Trumpet
    etc....      
                              
    

    	The more I examine the actual SOUNDFILES in these modules, the
    more I realize I had better understand their content before I get
    any additional modules OR the SOUNDBLOCKS.  There seems to be a
    lot of duplication in these soundfiles (Very Mellow Medium Tenor
    Sax, indeed!).  
    
    	Although the 1000PX doesn't appear to have as wide a variety
    of samples as its number of presets might suggest, it appears that
    for the money, it did get more distinctly different samples than
    did the other modules.  After reviewing the lists in .154 and .155,
    it is very doubtful that I would buy the 1000AX (or the SX or HX),
    even if the price came down from its present $1700.  There is less
    variety in the 1000AX than in the 1000PX.
    
    Clusters, 
    Bill Allen
    
    re .153 (?)
    
    Brad:
    	I hope you are right about the "70-110" samples in the PROTEUS.
     I read a review in Electronic Musician which suggests that E-mu
    has also taken a "redundant" approach to samples included on that
    unit.  (IE I think you will find there is more than just one PIANO
    sample or one FLUTE sample; there are probably five or six of each
    which will reduce the effective number of distinct samples you can
    actually work with to around 30-40). 

    To save Brad the trouble of invoking Moderator privilege, I'm going to
    move the 1000PX rathole in my A80/A50 note to a full-fledged, "legal"
    response here...
    
    To summarize... I bought a Roland A-80 to get (for one reason) poly/key
    aftertouch.  I hook up the A-80 to the 1000PX and, presto, poly
    aftertouch incurs zero effect on the sound.  Karl and Brad then chime
    in with "but not all patches will notice."
    
    I'll finish my incomplete thought here to let people know what I've
    tried.
    
    1. I experimented with the Trmpet PPress (Poly Pressure) patch which is
    	somewhere in the 100s in the factory supplied presets.  Nothing
    	happened.  When I tweaked the patch to modulate on Mono Pressure and
    	changed the A-80 to send out Mono/Channel pressure, the vibrato (or
    	whatever) changed as it should: equal effect on each note.
    
    2. I went into the 1000PX's MIDIscope mode (which I had forgotten about
    	until digging for clues in the manual).  In essence, the sound gets
    	turned off but the display shows the most recent MIDI event if you
    	press the edit/play and channel up and channel down buttons all at the
    	same time.  Nice trick.
    
    	In the tweaked Mono Pressure patch, the MIDIscope showed lots of
    	"M-Press" events, presumable Mono Pressure.  So I reverted to the
    	default PPress patch and changed the A-80 to send Poly Pressure. 
    	MIDIscope shows a bundle of P-Press events.  Whew.  At least I'm
    	relatively confident (though not positive) that the A-80 works OK.
    
    3.  Go to Acton Music (where I bought the PX).  Hook their 1000PX up to
    	their MIDIboard.  Use the same Trmpet PPress patch, turn on the
    	MIDIboard's Poly Pressure.  Voil�.  Each note gets a different vibrato
    	depending on the individual key pressure.  At least I know what the 
    	thing should do.  The tech at Acton suggests I try a reset.  This has
    	fixed problems in his and other machines he has worked on.
    
    4.	Go home, back up all my patches.  Do a soft reset.  No change.  Do
    	a hard reset.  No change.
    
    Oh yes, before I bought the A-80 we ran the output through an MC500 in
    microscope mode and it saw Poly Aftertouch events, too.  So I'm pretty
    sure that the A-80 is not the culprit.
    
    Next step... take 1000PX to shop.  At least it's still under warranty.
    Any more ideas?
    
    - John -

    This is a knee-jerk thought, but isn't there a parameter on the master
    page that controls whether the thing listens to certain modulators? 
    I haven't played with the PX enough yet to know, but I seem to remember
    something along these lines ...

-b

    >>> This is a knee-jerk thought, but isn't there a parameter on the master
    >>> page that controls whether the thing listens to certain modulators? 
    >>> I haven't played with the PX enough yet to know, but I seem to remember
    >>> something along these lines ...
    
    The tech at Acton Music and I looked quickly for one.  (He thought he
    recalled such a thing, too.)  If it's there, it doesn't have an obvious
    name.  I'l dig throught the manual a bit more deeply on this thought,
    however.  Thanks for the idea.
    
    - John -

    Here is the list of soundfiles in the PX-A soundblock for the 1000PX. 
    I only have a vague notion of what most of these sound like.  If anyone
    is really excited to know what a particular one sounds like, let me
    know and I'll give it a listen in isolation and report back.
    
    Total: 64 new soundfiles. Can be layered with othe soundfiles in the
    unit.  That is, each layer in a patch (up to 4 layers per patch) can
    have any one soundfile associated with it.  Thus, creating a piano
    (from the stock PX souddblock)/flute/drum patch is easily attainable.
    
    Soundfiles for noises/"normal" synthing...
    ==========================================

    123 Wave  (perhaps the numbers relate to harmonics?)
    4567 Wave
    89101112 Wave
    HiFrq Formant
    Flat Spectrum
    1/3 Wide Pulse
    Very Dull Sawtooth
    Slightly Dull Sawtooth
    Slightly Dull Square
    Sine Wave +
    Sine Wave ++
    Sine Wave +++
    123 Wave +
    123 Wave ++
    Very Dull Sawtooth +
    Very Dull Sawtooth ++
    Slightly Dull Sawtooth +
    Slightly Dull Square +
    Slightly Dull Square +++
    Third Wave +
    Third Wave +++

    Soundfiles for Flutes
    =====================

    Flute
    Bright Flute
    Mellow Flute

    Soundfiles for Electric Pianos
    ==============================

    Dual Electric Piano
    Soft Electric Piano
    Hard Electric Piano

    Soundfiles for Electric Bass
    ============================

    Electric Bass
    Slap Bass
    Dual Electric Bass
    Bright Electric Bass
    Very Bright Electric Bass
    Mellow Electric Bass
    Bright Slap Bass
    Mellow Slap Bass

    Soundfiles for Drums/Percussion
    ===============================

    Clean Kit 1
    Clean Kit 2
    Clean Kit 3
    Clean Kit 4
    Process Kit 1 (some processing in the soundfile itself)
    Process Kit 88
    Drums and Percussion 88
    5-Octave Drums
    2 Octave Drums
    4-Octave Congas
    Congas
    Open Congas
    Conga Slaps
    55-Gallon Drums
    1/2 Pint Drum

    Soundfiles for noise/texture/etc.
    =================================

    High Noise
    Medium Noise
    Low Noise
    Very Low Noise
    Noise 1/4 Tr
    Noise 1/2 Tr
    Noise 1/1 Tr
    High Thump
    Medium Thump
    Low Thump
    Very Low Thump
    Thump 1/4 Tr
    Thump 1/2 Tr
    Thump 1/1 Tr
    

    Wot? No horn or sax samples.  Phooey.

-b

    >>> Wot? No horn or sax samples.  Phooey.
    
    Nope.  Not on PX-A.  There are rumored to be some sax samples on the
    PX-B soundblock but haven't seen a definitive desription yet.  Note
    also that many people will be more than annoyed to find that to install
    PX-B, you supposedly will have to have PX-A installed, too.  (I'll post
    a note if/when this is confirmed/disconfirmed once I hear that the PX-B
    has been released.  It's due out this month.)
    
    - John -

    re .162 - PXA and PXB Soundblocks
    
    John, as I understand it you are right: you must have the PXA
    Soundblock installed in order to install the PXB.  This tends to
    discourage me from thinking about either of them.  I'd love to have
    some flutes and the synth waveforms would be nice, but not for $350.
    (As it turns out, the D110 has a very good Recorder and a decent
    Flute so that makes the PXA even less attractive).
    
    Likewise, the PXB which is supposed to have extended roots for Tenor
    Saxs and a bunch of other instruments seems like an expensive way
    to "extend" the note range of your favorite horn soundfiles (IMHO).
    
    As for the Drums in PXA and the Latin Perc in PXB, as Dave O. told
    me, "Get a R5/R8!".
    
    Clusters,
    Bill Allen

    >>> Likewise, the PXB which is supposed to have extended roots for Tenor
    >>> Saxs and a bunch of other instruments seems like an expensive way
    >>> to "extend" the note range of your favorite horn soundfiles (IMHO).
    
    Since neither the stock PX nor the PX-A has any sax soundfiles, the
    PX-B will "have to" (famous last words) have the original sax
    soundfiles in order for the extended root soundfiles to be of much use. 
    Since I've already got the PX-A, I'll probably get the PX-B just to
    have even more sounds available in the unit.  I'll review the
    soundfiles first to make sure there's something useful, however.
    
    ============
    
    Update on Poly Pressure problem (a few replies back)...
    
    After carting the 1000PX to Acton Music last night, it turns out that
    the 1000PX isn't the culprit.  When hooked up to their MIDIboard, it
    worked OK.  Latest diagnosis will be entered in the A-50/A-80 note. 
    (hint hint).
    
    - John -

I finally got around to writing down all the soundfiles that are included 
in the 1000 HX Horn Expander. There are 59 soundfiles in the HX. Here they are:

Trumpet
Muted Trmpt
Trombone
Brt Soft TSax
VBrt Soft TSx
Mel Soft TSax
VMel Soft TSx
Ext Dyn S TSx
Mel Med TSax
VMel Med TSax
Brt Med TSax
ExtD Med TSax
Soft>Med TSax
ExtD S>M TSax
ExtD S>M TSx2
Brt Grwl TSax
VBrt Grwl TSx
Mel Grwl TSax
ExtD Grwl TSx
S>Md>Grwl TSx
ExD Md>Gr TSx
Bright Trumpet
Mellow Trumpet
VMellow Trumpt
Ext Dyn Trmpt
Brt Mt Trumpt
Mel Mt Trumpt
Alien Mutant
ExD Mt Trumpt
Brt Trombone
Mellow Trombn
VMel Trombone
Mel Trombn2
Ext Dyn Trmbn
Trmbn/Trumpet
Trmbn/Trumpt2
MTrmbn/MTrmpt
MTrmbn/MTrpt2
BTrmbn/BTrmpt
ExD Trmbn/Trp
Alien Med TSx
Alien Growl
Sine Wave
Mel Syn Trmpt
Syn Trmpet
Brt Syn Trmpt
ExtD Syn Trmp
Mel Syn Sax
Syn Sax
Brt Syn Sax
ExtD Syn Sax
Waveform 1
Waveform 2
Waveform 3
ExtD Waveform
Soft Ten Sax
Med Tenor Sax
Growl Ten Sax
Med>Grwl TSax

    This is not a new concern, but I thought I'd mention that there's a
    certain lack of speed in the 1000PX... my KX88 xmits on two MIDI
    channels, 1 & 2 (K.I.S.S.).. when I'm playing one of the nonlayered
    piano patches on one channel, and a layered sound like Cathedral Choir
    or stereo fast strings, there's a decided lack of crispness to the
    piano part.  This can be cured by a) setting the KX88 to xmit on only
    one channel, or b) shutting off the other patch on the 1000PX' front
    panel.
    
    BTW, am I the only one that hates the fact that sending a 'change to
    patch 0' message (an attempt to shut up a MIDI channel on the PX) 
    brings up patch one, 'grand piano' ?
    
    hope y'all had a great holiday !  I cleaned up my studio... 
    
    karl

    I just got an "options and accessories" flyer in the mail from
    Kurzweil.  Here's a synopsis in case some of the *1000* owners didn't
    receive it yet.  Essentially, this is an ad for the soundblock upgrades
    and some updates.
    
    In case you're interested.  Otherwise, "next unseen".  If something
    looks like a typo, please ask.  I've tried to be careful but mistakes
    happen.
    
    - John -
    
    
    
    1.	Sound Block A (for 1000PXm K1000, and K1000SE)
    
    	2 megabytes ROM update with new Version 5.0 system software
    
    	Sounds include:
    	- flutes, 
    	- electric (tine) piano (including chorused, echo,			
    		fluid, and dual velocity versions),
    	- electric bass (including dual velocity, bright, slap, and several
    		others), 
    	- drum kits (including processed, clean, gated; bongos, congas, and
    		more), 
    	- and digital waveforms for synth programs.
    
    	Price (not including installation):
    		for 1000PX 	$345
    		for K1000	$395 (extra board required, I think)
    		for K1000 SE	$295
    
    2. Sound Block A for 1000SX (String Expander)
    
    	new sounds include:
    	- flutes
    	- oboes
    	- bassoons
    	- clarinets
    	- French horns
    	- timpani
    	- numerous digital waveforms for synth sounds and effects
    
    	Price (not including installation):	$295
    
    3. Sound Block A for 1000HX (Horn Expander)
    
    	new sounds include:
    	- soprano sax
    	- soft alto sax
    	- medium alto sax
    	- baritone sax
    	- brass stabs (falls)
    	- digital waveforms and synth setups
    
    	Price (not including installation):	$295
    
    4. AX Plus Upgrade for 1000AX Plus (acoustic expander)
    
    	This adds "both the SXA and HXA Sound Blocks..."  It includes 90
    new setups and the new operating system.  This gives 6 megabytes
    (total) of ROM including:
    
    	- strings (solos, sections, and pizziccato)
    	- saxes
    	- trumpets and trombones
    	- woodwinds (see SX Sound Block above)
    	- timpani
    	- digital waveforms and synth setups
    
    	Price (not including installation):	$495
    
    5. Sound Block B for the 1000PX, 1000PX Plus, K1000, K1000 SE, K1000
    	SE/EXT, etc.
    
    	This includes the new operating system and the "most-asked-for
    Kurzweil samples" to your existing unit.  NOTE: You must already have
    Sound Blcok A installed to add Sound Block B!!!  New soundfiles
    include:
    
    	- Extended flute roots
    	- Tenor Sax
    	- Electric distorted guitar
    	- Six-string acoustic guitar (metal strings)
    	- Muted electric guitar and "picks"
    	- Marimba and Harp
    	- Latin Pecussion "Max" (includes cabasa, shaker, guiro, agogo
    		bells, cowbell, tambourine, and "MANY more!")
    	- Analog "rap" drum machine samples
    
    	Price (not including installation):	$395
    
    6. MIDIBOARD v3.0 software
    
    	Including a new overlay for the control panel to guide you to the
    new menu items, this update includes the following:
    
    	- programmable arpeggiator
    	- doubled capacity of user instruments and MIDI lists
    	- non-volatile memorization of keyboard control sliders
    	- "exciting" new factory performance setups, including splits and
    		layers
    	- MIDI merge capabilities
    
    	Price (not including installation):	$150
    
    7.	ObjectMover(tm) software
    
    	looks the same as existing sofware but cheaper and a new IBM
    version.
    
    	Price:	Mac 512K or more and Atari 520 ST or better:	$35
    		IBM XT with at least 512K:			$45
    
    8.	MR-1 Micro Adapter
    
    	2 unit rack adapter for 900MX MicroExpander or MS-1 MicroSequencer
    
    	Price:	$100

    Other tidbits (less sales-oriented) from the Kurzweil "options and
    accessories" catalog appeared in the sidebars:
    
    1. "Programming Notes"
    
    	"Do you own a Lexicon MRC MIDI Remote Controller?"  (this is the
    programmer for the LXP-1, LXP-5, etc. that has some programmable push
    buttons and sliders for remote control of MIDI devices. - ja -) "Find
    out how to use it to program your 1000 Series keyboard or expander. 
    Write to Lexicon, 100 Beaver Street, Waltham, MA 02154.  Ask for "K1000
    Application Note" and you'll receive a free programming tutorial."
    
    2. "User Tip"
    
    	"Want to learn about how to program and operate your Kurzweil
    keyboard or expander?  Check out the following third-party items:
    
    	1. Kurzweil K-1000 Series Operations Guide from Alexander
    		Publishing ($19.95)
    	2. Mark Schecter's "Guided Tour of the 1000 Series Synthesizers"
    		(audio casette tutorial). ($49.95)  (this is advertised in
    		many of the magazines such as Keyboard, I think)
    
    3.  On the cover of the flyer was, perhaps, the most important piece of
    	information...
    
    	"ATTENTION: Owners of K1000, 1000PX, 1000SX, 1000HX, and 1000GX:
    	 If for any reason you did not receive the updated owner's manual
    	 for your unit, make a note of it on the enclosed order form and
    	 return it to the Customer Service Department.  Be sure to include
    	 model and serial number."
    
    	I know I never received an updated owner's manual so I'll have to
    send away and get one.  See the addresses note for Kurzweil's address.
    
    For what it's worth.
    
    - John -

    Can anyone describe what "ObjectMover" is or does?
    
    Thanx!
    dc

    re -1 - Dave,  it was (briefly) described in this very note.

    re: -.2
    
    I guess I shouldhave elaborated on it.  To quote:
    
    "Here's just a few of ObjectMover(tm)'s capabilities:
    
    - Upload and download programs, velocity maps, MIDI lists, master
    	parameters, and performance setups
    - Entire libraries or portions of libraries can be loaded, combined,
    	or rearranged
    - Provides communications with multiple 1000 Series instruments; any
    	type of stored data can be transferred directly from one unit to
    	another.
    - Offers an intuitive user interface with expander or keyboard and
    	allows "playing" notes from the computer keyboard
    - requires Mac 512 or better, IBM XT with at least 512K of RAM and MIDI
    	interface, or an Atari ST or better."
    
    Now, my own statements...
    
    ObjectMover is great for gathering your own personalized clumps of
    programs or arrangements of presets into locations 64-127 of memory. 
    It is also a great way to store your master parameters and setups. 
    
    Note, however, that you CANNOT transfer the actual soundfiles (samples)
    to/from Object mover.  This is a parameter only program.  You can load
    programs from a 1000SX to 1000PX but they won't sound the same.  The
    stored program keeps a soundfile pointer around that on different
    models relates to different sounds.  Thus, I can't use ObjectMover to
    move a sax patch from the 1000HX to my 1000PX.  If I do this, a sound
    plays with all the same parameters but the soundfiles called up will be
    soundfiles resident in the 1000PX.
    
    Also, the interface is "intuitive" only because it exactly matches the
    front panel of the 1000PX.  You can point and click at the little
    buttons and get the same results accomplished but it's not any
    conceptually easier than clickin the real buttons on the 1000PX itself.
    Specifically lacking are any sort of direct envelope editing or any
    sort of graphic manipulation of objects beyond those that you can
    already see on your unit.
    
    Playing the notes from the computer means that the various letters on
    your computer keyboard generate pre-defined MIDI note-ons and offs. 
    This is good for testing the sound as you tweak it without having to
    reach over to your keyboard/controller.  Nice to have but not useful
    for much beyond previewing your sounds.
    
    In short, just for backups I've found it worthwhile to have it.  It's
    not a great "accelerator" for learning how to program the beast,
    however.
    
    - John -

    OK, Kurzweil, what makes YOUR channel 01 so special that I can't
    disable it? Huh?
    
    Does anyone know a work around for disabling channel 01?
    
    I bought my unit after I had X number or pieces scored with channel
    1 assigned to an ESQ-M. Now I come to find out that I can disable
    any channel on the PX except channel 1! This means that If I want
    to add the PX to any of my existing scores, that I have to reassign
    all my channel 1s to some other channel for my ESQ-M. Not only that,
    I was planning on having Channel 11-14 assigned to my PX. Now I
    have to have channel 1,11,12,13 or some configuration that includes
    channel 1. What if ALL SGUs said you couldn't disable channel 1?
    I guess you couldn't use channel 1 then!

    Thanks for any suggestions!
    
    Bill

Can't you assign "NO PRG ASSIGNED" to channel 1?  IN this way, it would
listen on channel 1, but there wouldn't be anything there for it to play.

IF it looks like a hack and sounds like a hack, it's a hack!

a

    RE: .173
    
    You can do that - but as soon as you send out a program change on
    channel 01, all of sudden you have an organ or whatever the program
    number is assigned to on channel 01!

    Bill

    To disable a channel, use the MENU buttons in MULTI mode to move from
    one "channel menu" to another.  When you get to the channel you wish to
    disable, press the VALUE button labelled NO.  This will disable the
    channel for the duration of the power-up. 

    Which reminds me of a gripe - the Proteus REMEMBERS which channels I
    want disabled.  I have to redo the stupid PX each time I power on.
    Since I only use 3 channels, that's a hassle. 

-b

    Gee, I just thought of another gripe.

    I tried writing a few patches on the PX this weekend - basically, I
    tried combining SYNTH KALIMBA and NEW AGE PIANO into one patch,
    eliminating one layer and twiddling the envelope.  It didn't work.

    Remember Karl's posting about the piano becoming marked less "distinct"
    or "sharp" when using the thing in multi-timbral mode?  Well, it turns
    out that the Kurzweil can't really function like this.  The thing
    doesn't have enough horsepower to turn all the notes on/off properly. 

    Don't believe it?  Use a keyboard that can Xmit on 2 channels. Select
    patch 53 SYNTH KALIMBA on one channel, patch 23 NEW AGE PIANO on the
    other.  Now try playing a hard multi-node chord (use at least 6 notes
    ... better yet, try 10).  No matter what you try twiddling, the thing
    arpeggiates the chord.  Ugh. 

-b

    Well, I don't know what to say folks, it was MY mistake! I had assumed
    that channel 01 had to be the base channel, when in fact, any channel
    can be assigned to be the base channel! When I assigned channel
    11 to be the base channel, of course there was no problem disabling
    channel 1!
    
    I came across this solution by sheer coincidence - somehow I re-assigned
    the base channel to 11 without even knowing it, and voila! No more
    problem with turning off channel 1.
    
    By the way, with the 1000 PX +, the channels remain disabled after
    powering down (I knew there was some reason I went for the PX +
    instead of the PX with sound block A which one of the salesmen was
    trying to talk me into)!

    Bill

    I tried duplicating the delay problem again - it's consistent. Do other
    folks have similar problems, or do I have a sick unit?  Getting
    concerned ...

-b

    Yes, I've noticed it.  It only happens when I'm playing two layered
    patches simultaneously from the KX88 (xmits two channels)... sort of a 
    "I'll catch up with you later" style arpeggiation of thick chords.
    
    Have not noticed it when sequencing, even heavily using its polyphony.
    
    karl

    re .176
    
    Brad,
    
    	I will try to duplicate what you are having a problem with tonight,
    if I get a chance.  The KURZWEIL DOES have its faults, but I have
    not noticed this one as one of them.  I am using a similar "home-
    brewed" creation on one of my COMMUSIC submissions, and I don't
    remember my 1000PX misbehaving this way, but...
    
    Clusters,
    Bill Allen

I noticed the arpeggiation effect recently when I tried recording an 8-part
choral piece using my sequencer.  Each part was recorded on a separate
channel.  I used program #16, "Stereo Piano" for all voice parts.  As I added
more parts, the arpeggiation effect got more pronounced.  I didn't actually
narrow it down to the Kurzweil (as opposed to the sequencer), but I theorized
that I was overloading it in some way, and it was forced to play catch-up.

I'd like to try changing the program number to something less complex (fewer
layers, maybe?) and see if there's any difference.

Jim

        <<< Note 1066.181 by HPSRAD::SAWIN "Jim Sawin, DTN 297-4933" >>>
>I used program #16, "Stereo Piano" for all voice parts.  
>I'd like to try changing the program number to something less complex (fewer
>layers, maybe?) and see if there's any difference.

    Sorry, jim - #16 is a single layer preset.
    
    karl

    I'm having problems with a hum that's coming from my 1000PX Plus.
    I talked to Kurzweil and the customer service Rep thought it was
    a ground loop problem.
    
    He said that one solution would be to have everything plugged into
    the same power strip, which isn't possible.
    
    Another solution would be to get an adapter from Radio Shack
    for the unit so that I can use the balanced inputs on the mixer,
    which should also eliminate the problem.
    
    Has anyone else had this problem, and is there another easier way
    out of this?
    
    Thanks!

    Bill

    Have you tried hooking up wires to all your cases?  I've done this by
    hooking wires up to screws that attach to the cases.  Gotta be careful
    doing this.  Just do it with your equipment that hooks to ground via
    three-conductor.  Also, sometimes it helps to wrap some of your signal
    cables in foil that is electrically attached to ground.  This tends to
    compensate for cheap cables.  Finally, if you have a particularly noisy
    SGU and have the guts, expertise and don't care about voiding
    warranties you can line the inside with grounded foil.  Terrible things
    to do, but they work.
    
    Steve

    Bill, my 1000PX has hum - the aural kind.  I can hear it when I turn it
    on - like a superhet squeal, only lower.  Not loud enough to bother me,
    it does NOT hum into its own audio outputs.
    
    karl (back from the Heartland of America)

    I think I need to get someone into the studio sometime who knows
    what they're doing as far as wiring things up, to get the kinks
    out - hum, etc.
    
    It seems that it is definately a ground-loop problem with the
    1000PX, from what Kurzweil told me. I'm sure that I could neaten
    things up as far as cables, ground connections, etc. to solve
    my noise/hum problems.
    
    Thanks,
    Bill

    What kinda "hum" do you mean?  Audio hum, "the box hums when it's
    turned on", or electrical interference?  I have 2 & 3; there's nothing
    you can do about 2, and 3 is only eliminated by isolating the Kurzweil
    (read: put it a fur peece away from the other stuff). 
    
    The 1st may be due to a bad (or unshielded) audio cable.  Have you
    tried isolating everything but the Kurzweil (as follows): 

	1000PX+ ---> mixer ---> headphones

    If not, I'd give that a try.  I'd almost bet that you've got a bad
    cable somewhere. 

    My PX puts out a *great* deal of electrical noise; so much so that my
    MVII and Quadraverb are picking it up.  Very irritating.  All that's
    worked for me is taking it out of the rack. 

-b

PS - Karl, if you were close to Ohio and didn't let me know, you're
     a squid.  ;-)

    My rack layout :
    
       patch bay
    Sonus MIDI switcher
     MidiFEX MIDIverb
          EMAX
        1000PX
        TEAC EQ
       audio amp
    
    .. in back, I run all power cables hard left and all audio cables hard
    right.  Never noticed any electrical/audio emissions from the 1000PX.
    
    karl         
    <<< Note 1066.187 by DYO780::SCHAFER "Brad - boycott hell." >>>
>PS - Karl, if you were close to Ohio and didn't let me know, you're
>     a squid.  ;-)
    
    p.s.  .. eastern Kansas/Oklahoma border..zzzzzzzzzzzhuh?
    

re: 181

I found out that the arpeggiation effect was not coming from the Kurzweil,
but was in the recorded sequence.  I used the "Quantize" feature in my
sequencer to align all the notes, and everything sounded fine.

Jim

    re .176
    
    Brad:
    
    Did you ever find out what the story was on your 1000PX staggering
    notes?  My only keyboard (a K5) does not transmit on more than one
    channel at a time.  However, I tried to duplicate the problem by
    playing the patches you indicated on two channels via the sequencer.
    I did not notice the effect you described.
    
    Is it possible that what you are experiencing is some sort of "phase
    cancellation"?
    
    Clusters,
    Bill Allen
    

RE: last two

    I'm not using a sequencer.  I'm using my hands, and my quanitzation
    is pretty darn good.  8-)  Problem persists.

    Don't know what to tell you about single channel boxes ... I'm certain
    that it's not "phase cancellation".  To make sure I wasnt sending it
    crap, I recorded a "blast" into MTP, then stripped everything but note
    on/off, and set all velocities to 64 (default).  Same thing. 

    I'm irritated.

-b

    Brad, I've noticed the 'Schafer effect' as well.  As my KX88 sends on
    two channels, I select a layered sound (with a fast attack) on each 
    channel - they do NOT sound quiute simultaneously.
    
    karl
    

    re: unintentional arpeggio on the 1000 series
    
    When I first got my A-80, I also was able to conjure up the
    unintentional arpeggios.  I set up the A-80 to transmit on 4 channels
    at a time and then muted (at the 1000PX) all but the piano channel. 
    Then, while playing the beginning the beginning chords to the "Great
    Gate of Kiev" and holding down the sustain pedal, I got this really
    annoying arpeggios.
    
    I haven't yet had the inclination to figure out where the threshold
    hold is before the effect kicks in.  I was thinking that between 4
    channels of notes with Poly Aftertouch turned on, I was either
    overflowing the A-80's processing speed or the 1000PX's speed.  Since
    other people experience this effect on 1000s without an A-80, I'll
    guess the 1000 is too slow.  No matter the source, it sounds pretty
    awful at times so I'm just learning to work around it.
    
    - John -

    I went in and tried the experiment Brad mentioned in .176, and this
    time sure enough, I got some delays on certain notes.  I decided
    to listen to the two patches (New Age Piano and Synth Kalibma) one
    at a time.  
    
    Upon further testing, I found that it is Synth Kalimba that seems
    to start sticking after three notes.  (This "sticking" sounds a 
    little like a clumsy arppegio as has been mentioned).  If I hit
    six notes it was worse (more pronounced), if I hit ten it was 
    unmistakable.  Interestingly, with NA Piano selected by itself,
    I couldn't hear any adverse effect even with a "forearm" cluster
    of twenty or so notes.
                                                                        
    From the sound of it, it would seem that what we're hearing is a
    software problem.  Or perhaps I should say, it COULD be a software
    problem.  It seems possible that there could be some parameter(s)
    set up in patches like Synth Kalimba which aggravates the problem.
    I will try to give Kurzy a call to get some ideas. 
    
    Clusters,
    Bill Allen
    

    Received new 1000 Series manuals in the mail yesterday.  I got them
    free by returning the Kurzweil "Options and Accessories" order form
    asking for the updated manuals and giving them my (registered) serial
    number from my 1000PX.
    
    The manuals are much nicer than the old ones.  The information is
    broken into 2 manuals: a "Musician's Guide..." and a "Programming
    Guide..."  The Musician's Guide is restricted to setting up the unit,
    doing some patch mapping, layering presets, etc.  Rudimentary stuff for
    the common user.  The Programmer's Guide is an attempt at a better
    explanation than the "Parameter Dictionary" provided in the early
    manuals.  In fact, there's even a nice picture of a conceptual model of
    the 1000 series that is depicted as a synthesizer patch panel like the
    Mini-Moog.  I can't recall the details but the picture gives a good
    idea of what the connections (input/output) of each module are.
    
    More later if I find any interesting tidbits.  Right now, I'm
    concentrating on COMMUSIC VII which WILL be coming out shortly.
    
    - John -

On the hum problem mentioned a few notes back.  Not sure if you've tried this,
but I also had this problem.  My solution was to eliminate the ground loop by
using a 3 to 2 prong adapter for the 1000PX.  I keep a number of these handy as
its a quick way to solve ground loop problems.

	Jim

    Jim,
    
    I actually tried that as a temporary solution, but didn't regard it as
    a permanent solution because it could potentially be hazardous (you
    could get zapped if you touch it and somthing else)!
    
    The other thing that I haven't tried yet is linking power strips
    together.
    
    Regards,
    
    BIll

    I also ordered the new 1000 manual from the Kurzweil flyer.  haven't
    seen it yet.
    
    A friend of mine has taken over the keyboard dept. of a local music
    store... seems that the MI (rock-oriented synth/sampler) market is real
    real flat.. so they're going to things like Clavinovas, Kurzweil
    Ensemble grands, etc... and he has some traditional, rocker inventory 
    to move.. 
    
    So today I'm taking my 1000PX over there to get its brand new PXA
    soundblock for... $269.  Installation free.  
    
    He's got a MIDIboard and a buncha modules.  I'm trying to get him to
    sell me a Horn Expander for cheap.  How cheap ?  I'll let you know.
    
    karl

    re: Karl's PXA upgrade...
    
    Karl:
    
    	In the flyer that advertised the new manual, there was some mention
    of a pending operating system upgrade.  I believe that the new O/S
    upgrade is 2 new chips that may come with "new" upgrades.  (Whether
    non-upgrade owners would find these of use remains to be seen.)  Please
    let us know whether you get a new O/S with your upgrade.  I'd
    especially be interested to hear if the "arpeggiation" problem goes
    away with this upgrade.
    
    	Also, note that in the packet with my new manuals there are 2 pages
    of charts showing the note mapping to sound mapping for all of the
    drum/percussion soundfiles in the PXA and its equivalents.  Now I'm
    glad I didn't take the time to do this since their chart is much nicer
    than I would have done.
    
    - John -

    re the new O.S. - the ROM set I'm getting has 5 chips... any comment
    from prior PXA upgradees ?
    
    karl

    >>> re the new O.S. - the ROM set I'm getting has 5 chips... any comment
    >>> from prior PXA upgradees ?
    
    None from me.  I have no idea how many chips went into my "old"
    upgrade.  If I come across a chip count in my reading of the new
    manuals or other literature, I'll post it here.
    
    - John -

Er, How is it that I order this new manual?  

I...... forgot.

tanx
andy

    >>> Er, How is it that I order this new manual?  
    
    Send a nice letter to Kurzweil (address is probably in the
    Manufacturers topic or in your old manual).  Give them the model number
    and serial number of your machine.  Mention that their "Options and
    Accessories" flyer mentioned that you could get the updeated manual for
    free.  Ask them nicely to send you a copy.  Wait 4-6 weeks.
    
    That should work.
    
    - John -

    re "sticking notes"
    
    Spoke to Steve Johansen @ KURZWEIL this afternoon.  I explained
    the problem we are having with notes sticking when several notes
    are played at the same time.  He began with the standard "Geez,
    I've never heard of that happening before" routine.  
    
    Steve indicated that he thought it might have something to do with
    the way our SGUs are hooked up.  My 1000PX is fed from my K5, but
    it goes through the VOYETRA OPS4001 on my computer.  He seemed to
    think that this might be the problem.  He also asked if the problem
    was related to the use of a sequencer, but I told him that was not
    the issue for me.  
    
    Brad, you and Karl were going straight to the 1000PX from your
    controller right?
    
    Bill Allen

    Yes I can invoke the Schaefer Effect when playing two layered Ksounds
    simultaneously from the KX88, sending on two MIDI channels.
    
    On another note, call me jaded.  I was all ready to fork over me $$$
    for a mail-order 1000HX from Guitar Center in Hollywood.  But today I
    dropped by the shop that's doing my PXA upgrade, and played their
    1000HX.  I was underwhelmed.  Decided not to buy.
    
    karl

    Omigosh!!!  
    	
    	What a nightmare!! 
    
    		I dreamed I had swapped my
    
    	      KURZWEIL 1000PX AND ROLAND R5 
    
    		  all for one PROTEUS!!!
    
    I have to stop reading Brad's notes..............  :-) .
    
    Bill Allen          

    This got sent to me (and probably a lot of you too). Does anybody know
    what kind of "weird rumors" these might be?
    
    Mike D
    
    
From:	MARLIN::EVERGN::"[email protected]" 28-FEB-1990 18:27:30.19
To:	[email protected] 
CC:	
Subj:	Kurzweil info? 

Anyone know what's happening with Kurzweil? Lots of weird rumors
floating....
	-Mike
 
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From: [email protected]
Date: Wed, 28 Feb 90 18:25:00 EST
To: [email protected]
Subject: Kurzweil info?
    
          

I've heard that Kurzweil [music systems, at least] is in deep financial
trouble and is up for sale.

andy

    Omigosh, not another Sequential:  American synthesizer innovator,
    leader in high-end, swamped by more cost-effective Japanese
    competitors, bought out by the competition (Yamaha), out of business
    same year.
    
    Bill Norcott
    

    typing this in from our new VT1000...
    
    Grim news so far on my PXA upgrade.  Let's see if I have this right..
    the kit (5 chips) had bad OS ROMs.  Kurzweil promises to rush ship
    them.  After a week of sitting on their thumbs, the store figures out
    that the 'rush ship' hasn't arrived.  Call Kurzweil.  KZ promises rush
    ship.  Comes in on time, but wrong ones.  Call Kurzweil.  KZ promises
    to rush ship.  Chips arrive broken in transit.  Call Kurzweil....
    
    karl

    PXA upgrade for 1000PX is complete.  Seems the problem all along was
    that my unit was TOO OLD.  According to the ROM labels, my unit was one
    of the first 100 units made.  And thus there was an UNDOCUMENTED
    circuit bridge required.  No fool, I plugged the unit into AC, MIDI and
    audio and played every single new sound before I took it out of the
    store.  Works fine.  Up to 225 or so patches in memory.  Gee, if only
    MIDI patch changes went that high..
    
    Let's see - my Emax rack is serial number 118 - I have a couple of
    CLASSICS on my hands.
    
    karl

    Do you still get the "Schafer effect"?

-b

         <<< Note 1066.212 by DYO780::SCHAFER "Brad - boycott hell." >>>
>    Do you still get the "Schafer effect"?
    
    Dunno.  even though there's ostensibly a new rev of the OS, I can't see
    it speeding up the response that much.  Haven't got it home yet... HERE
    we're still at work !
    
    (of course, I'm yawning in my jammies in the AM when youse have been 
    at work an hour already)
    
    karl

    This note is easy to remember.. 1066.. the Battle of Hastings..
    
    Spent some time with the PXA upgrade sounds last night.  A few things
    jump out that I need advice on, being intimidated by the dearth of
    buttons on the front panel, teensy display, and crapola manual..
    BTW in installing the upgrade I lost all my customization (which was
    limited to renumbering the patch banks and redoing the velocity curve)
    
    o	I need to renumber the sounds - this batch starts at patch 184 and
    	goes to 224.  I HAVE pulled the original sounds together so that
    	they can all be accessed by MIDI patch change requests, but this
    changes things - there's a whole series of original patches that start
    with MIDI patch #94 that I don't want - and that leaves over 30 slots
    that I could import the PXA sounds to.  I'll read the manual some more
    on this one.
    
    o	The 'dual' electric piano is great, but the honking, distorted,
    	mid-rangey second layer is just TOO loud - plus I have to smash 
    	the keys to get it to come up.  Part of this is to alter the
    	keyboard velocity response curve, and part is to lower the gain 
    	on the secondary layer.
    
    o	Drum kit.. wouldncha know, I love most of the 'clean' kit, but the
    	snare is just TOO wimpy.  There are some punched-up/layered
    	versions of the same drum kit, and the snare sounds fine. 
    	Question- can I import a section of one keyboard setup/patch
    	into another ?  
    
    o	The more I deal with the Kurzweil, the more I appreciate the EMAX'
    	user interface !
    
    o	Oh yes, did anyone ever receive the new Kurzweil 1000 series manual
    	that they mentioned in the recent flyer ?  I ordered one (no price)
    	and sent $3.00 for shipping.
    
    thanks for any wisdom !  karl

    Karl,
    
    Regarding your question on renumbering - if I understand your problem,
    you want to re-number the order of the presets so that you can get some
    of your PXA sounds into lower numbers that can be accessed via midi
    change program commands (1-127 I think).
    
    I had to do this once or twice - there is a sub-menu that defines the
    program number that midi will look at, which doesn't have to be the same
    as the program number that is associated with the patch when you look
    at it in the LCD display. I don't think that you can change the program
    number in the LCD display - i. e. program 94 will always be 94 in the LCD,
    you can only change the program change number that midi looks at in the
    sub-menu. I don't remember the sub-menu off hand.
    
    By the way, if you do figure out a way to renumber the default order of
    patches, I'd like to do the same thing - I'll take another look at the
    manual tonight to see if I see anything else on this (I have the new
    PX Plus manual).
    
    Bill

    Karl:
    
    > o	Drum kit.. wouldncha know, I love most of the 'clean' kit, but the
    >	snare is just TOO wimpy.  There are some punched-up/layered
    >	versions of the same drum kit, and the snare sounds fine. 
    >	Question- can I import a section of one keyboard setup/patch
    >	into another ?  
    
    Two ideas:
    
    (1)	This is my "trade secret" on the PX-A.  Try using a note cluster on
    	the Clean Kit snares.  I bang middle C, C#, and D to get a fuller
    	sound.  I like it this way and have set up my Octapad to trigger a
    	snare using this layered approach.
    
    (2)	Define a patch as 3 layers:
    	- first layer uses the soundfile you like for non-snares and define
    		its key range from A0 to middle C.
    	- second layer is the one you like snares on.  Program its key
    		range as middle c (or maybe the b natural below it; the
    		snares start somewhere around there) and go up to the g
    		above middle C or wherever the snares stop.
    	- third layer is the rest of the drums.  Choose a soundfile (maybe
    		the same as layer 1) and set its key range from where layer
    		2 stops to wherever the range tops out.
    
    > o	Oh yes, did anyone ever receive the new Kurzweil 1000 series manual
    >	that they mentioned in the recent flyer ?  I ordered one (no price)
    >	and sent $3.00 for shipping.
    
    	I got mine about 4 weeks after mailing in the request.  A nice
    bonus was the addition of some user's publication I'd never seen that
    included a instrument to note mapping for PX-A soundfiles.  Now I can
    quickly figure out where the high-hats are!
    
    Enjoy!
    
    - John -

    re .214  [New user manual]
    
    Karl, 
    
    I got the new manuals (a summarized user's guide and the more detailed
    reference guide) at the end of last year.  (I am assuming that there
    has not been another revision).  These are spiral-bound affairs
    which are prety well-written and with much better graphics than
    those in the original manuals.
    
    However, I think you put your finger on it when you refered to the
    Kurzy's "difficult" user interface.  I suspect that this is part
    of the reason the 1000 modules have never really caught on.  Often,
    I pull out the new manuals just before I go to bed with some new
    and interesting ideas for programming.  Usually I am comatose within
    fifteen minutes... :^)
    
    Clusters,
    Bill Allen

->        <<< Note 1066.214 by SALSA::MOELLER "Oh JOY! LMF on ULTRIX !" >>>
->    BTW in installing the upgrade I lost all my customization (which was
->    limited to renumbering the patch banks and redoing the velocity curve)

Not cool at all. I called Kurzweil and specifically asked them if they 
saved your homegrown patches/setups/customizations, and they said that they 
did save them and would load them back in afterwards as part of the 
"installation". 

Prior to this, I was thinking about buying the PXA soundblock and installing 
it myself to save the installation charge, but when I heard (David Fox I 
believe) say that they did the backup for you, I though that I would just 
have them do the installation so I could save myself the hassle and the $50 
it would cost to buy Object Mover (to do the backups myself).

So, I guess the lesson learned here is: if you want to be safe, it would be 
wise to just buy Object Mover and do the backup yourself. 

BTW, Karl, did they charge you a lot for the "installation" portion (not 
including the price of the PXA soundblock)?

Mike D

    Has anyone actually seen (or used) the IBM Object Mover?
    
    Bill Allen
    
    PS   I hear it comes with its own set of custom patches.
        

    From what I've heard, it "emulates the front panel on the computer".
    *BIG* deal. 

-b

    re the last few -
    
    o	re saving my sounds - there weren't any !  I just lost my preferred
    velocity map and the patch-to-MIDI renumber map
    
    o	installation - FREE.  Got the PXA for $278.
    
    o	I redid my velocity map (DX7 'hard' for the KX88) and used the
    patch-to-MIDI map 'PRESET', and then customized it to include most of
    the sounds from the PXA.
    
    o	wouldncha know it, my favorite Rhodes sound, stereo chorused type,
    EATS polyphony.  I really have to watch it when I'm using that sound
    with others.
    
    o	Serendipity department :  I've got a favorite 'drum kit' on the
    EMAX that I use a lot (listen latest COMMUSIC 7 submits).  What I've
    found is that the drum kit I've been using on the EMAX was taken from
    the Kurzweil, and the notes even map - i.e. kick is where it belongs,
    snares, hihats, toms, etc.  The only mismatch is the cymbals, where I
    moved things around a bit.  I prefer the toms on the EMAX, however,
    they're punchier and slightly higher pitched.
    
    o	What's on the PXB soundblock ?  anyone have it ?
    
    karl

    Does anyone know how I can eliminate or lessen the mallet attack from the
    Electronic Piano? It seems like all of the E Piano patches have an
    attack that sounds like a mallet striking vibes. I'd like to just get
    the mellow piano sound without the mallet affect. I've tried various
    things but nothing's worked.
    
    Thanks!
    
    Bill

    Bill, are we talking basic PX or the PXA Rhodes ?
    
    If it's the basic PX, I don't blame you, it stinks and I've never used
    it.  There's a PXA 'fluid EP' sound that's real nice/
    
    anyone else know how to trim an attack off a sound ?  I know the PX
    allows programmed waveform contours, but I've been intimidated (as
    I've said before) by the crapola manual and 2-button user environment.
    
    karl

    You mean you can't just slow down the attack phase of the amplitude
    envelope, maybe cut back the filter envelope attack or decrease the
    envelope's contribution to the filter modulation?  Alternatively, if it
    were a "two oscillator" patch, you could just adjust the balance
    between the "attack" partial and the "sustain" partial.
    
    I guess there's more of a difference between a sample player and a
    synthesizer than the 9 or 10 letters between the "s" and the "r".
    
    len (treasuring his "obsolete" analog synths).
    

Karl, I think there is a function (forget what the name of it is at the moment) 
that allows you to play back the sample from a point *after* the initial 
attack. This sounds like just what you're looking for. I'll try looking it 
up to see how to access it (I have the new manuals).

Mike D    

    >>> Karl, I think there is a function (forget what the name of it is at
    >>> the moment)  that allows you to play back the sample from a point
    >>> *after* the initial  attack. This sounds like just what you're
    >>> looking for. I'll try looking it  up to see how to access it (I
    >>> have the new manuals).
    
    I'm almost positive it's called AltAttack (for alternate attack).  Each
    soundfile has a secondary sample start point defined.  When AltAttack
    is on, the sample begins playing from this point instead of at the
    beginning (the default).
    
    I also think this parameter is on the Layer menu.  Sometimes this
    sounds good, other times, it sounds weird, and other times it sounds
    dreadful.  (in my opinion of course).  Fun and sometimes useful.
    
    On some of the drum sounds the alternate attack plays only the boom
    part of the drum without the sound of an attack.  This can be used
    (sparingly) as an effect.  I've also taken some of the bite oout of the
    bowing on some strings with this parameter.
    
    - John -

    Thanks for all your comments on this ... I haven't been in the studio
    for a couple of days but will try to see if I can come up with a 
    solution based on the replies. The alternate attack rings a bell, so
    I think that I'll try that out for starters.
    
    By the way - parameter 206 lets you scroll through alternate sound
    sources (through the sound files I think). I tried this with the
    Tremolo E Piano patch, and I think it was the sine wave sound file that
    actually sounded pretty close to the original patch, but with hardly
    any attack - it was barely audible. You can get some pretty interesting
    new patches just by flipping through sounds this way. You can also
    experiment with the effects that are applied to the patch to produce
    other variations such as tremolo vs. no tremolo - I don't know off hand
    what parameter controls the effects.
    
    Regards,
    
    Bill

    Just to close out the issue of the Kurzweil not being able to respond
    in a timely fashion to "note-on" information (several notes back)...
    
    I talked to (ostensibly) the "largest Kurzweil dealer in the US" a few
    days ago.  The Kurzweil 1000 series is *definintely* unable to respond
    to large amounts of MIDI data, not just note-ons.  In fact, this dealer
    said that it was "basically unusable if you want to do more than one 
    thing at a time and you're concerned about timing".
    
    (For an example of this effect, find the "Synth Kalimba" or "Dig Pno 2"
    patches, and play 6 note chords in alternating octaves while holding
    down the sustain pedal.)
    
    He went on to state that Kurzweil has known about the problem for quite
    some time, and have no intentions of doing anything about it (the
    problem is processor speed).  He speculated that this (along with the
    financial problems) was the reason for the blowout of 1000 series
    modules.
    
+b

    >"basically unusable if you want to do more than one 
    >thing at a time and you're concerned about timing".
    
    I must be SO out of it.  Here I've been using mine happily since 1988,
    doing all kinds of MIDI polyphony with it, and all along it's a piece
    of JUNK, only fit to smash into tiny pieces.  Admittedly I've only had 
    the 'A' soundblock for 10 months or so, but I've been able to give the 
    1000PX all the bass/drum chores that were tying up the EMAX.. and I 
    never noticed that it was so poor.  Perhaps my perceptions were clouded
    by the sterling quality of the sounds.
    
    Yes, it's possible to make the 1000 choke, if you're hooked on multilayer 
    patches.  And that just causes slowness and loss of polyphony.  I tend
    to avoid aftertouch and lots of CC data, because that's my style.
    Most of the sounds I use are single-layered, and I have NO interest in 
    replacing the 1000 or even adding another SGU.
    
    I'm at the point now that if there's something I can't do in my studio,
    I think it's MY faulty thinking instead of lack of equipment.
    
    karl

    Easy, Karl - I was just quoting the techie.  No need to take it
    personally.  Sheesh.  You notice that I still have mine (but I *do* use
    lots of multi-layers and CCs...)
    
+b

Add me to the list of people who has NOT had ANY problems doing 
multitimbral stuff with the 1000 Series modules. I don't aftertouch or CCs 
much either. 

Mike D

    >>>  re: -< Overreactions by Kurzweil bashers? >-, etc.
    
    	Not to fan the flames since it's somewhat off the point, but I'd
    like to point out an example that (on my setup anyway) is just about 
    guaranteed to cause the "processor overload arpeggio" effect.  Play
    Mussorgsky's "Great Gate of Kiev" with the sustain pedal on (other 8-10
    finger chord voicings should also cause the effect).  The first chord
    will ring out just great; the second and subsequent chords will
    arpeggiate like you wouldn't believe.
    
    	I couldn't believe it wasn't my fault when I first did this.  It's
    pretty astounding.  Of course, if you don't get the arpeggiation
    effect, I'll have to go back to my setup and see if there's a lurking
    afertouch of multiple note-on problem deep in a patch somewhere.
    
    And, I'm a Kurzweil fan by the way (thought I wish my 1000PX didn't do
    this).  Just wanted to give an example for those interested in hearing
    the effect under discussion.
    
    Carry on,
    
    - John -

    A problem arose during my experiments (topic 2464) with using a sequencer 
    as a delay environment.  Doing the delay is straightforward.  Now I 
    need to be able to temporarily set the PAN position of an entire Kurzweil 
    patch using a MIDI CC number.
    
    In fact, I'd like to be able to do it twice :  let's say it's a
    percussion part.  I use the original sound, panned mono, straight up.
    I then have the first delay, panned left (a separate sequencer track),
    and the second delay, panned hard right.  These would be on separate
    MIDI channels.  So the same percussion patch would be responding on
    three MIDI channels.  Do I have to copy the original patch to two 
    additional ROM positions (ugh), or will it respond to each MIDI channel
    independently (don't think so).
    
    I've found reading the original 1000 manual to be an instant guaranteed
    headache.  Can someone please explain simply to me how to set PAN on a
    patch using an incoming CC ?  Doesn't have to be dynamic, I'd just set
    it once at the beginning of a sequence track.
    
    I'd really appreciate it !  I know how to do it easily on EMAX but the
    user interface on the 1000PX defies me.
    
    Oh yeah - months ago I sent Kurzweil $3.00 for a new, revised 1000
    manual.. did any of you order and receive it ?  
    
    thanks ! karl

    re: .233
    
    >>> ... So the same percussion patch would be responding on three MIDI
    >>> channels.  Do I have to copy the original patch to two  additional
    >>> ROM positions (ugh), or will it respond to each MIDI channel
    >>> independently (don't think so).
    
    Well, the quick way to do it is to use the ROM positions.  Yes, it's
    ugly, brute-force but it should work.  I'm pretty sure that the PAN
    parameter of each layer in a patch assigns the pan position regardless
    of MIDI channel or anything else.  So, perhaps the copied PATCH into
    modified PATCH-LEFT and PATCH-RIGHT ROM locations is the only way to do
    it.
    
    >>> ... Can someone please explain simply to me how to set PAN on a 
    >>> patch using an incoming CC ?  Doesn't have to be dynamic, I'd just
    >>> set it once at the beginning of a sequence track.
    
    I'll try to dig out my manual tonight and see if there's a way to set a
    patch's pan location via CC.  The default on layers of 1000PX patches
    is to place the location (indicated by a *) on the little line of
    hyphens (L--------R) or to Autopan (which I think sets the pan
    depending on MIDI note number (this is how they get the stereo pianos
    to pan L-R as you go up the piano keys).  I'll look for a CC#
    selection to see if it is a choice.
    
    One more idea: is the patch you're using just a 1 layer patch?  If so,
    you may be able to emulate this whole delay in a single patch:
    
    	1) Copy layer 1 into layers 2 through 4 of the same patch.
    	2) Modify layer 2 to delay the start of it's sound for time t1 and
    		change the pan to L.
    	3) Modify layer 3 to delay the start of its sound for time t2 and
    		change its pan to R.
    	4) Modify layer 4 to delay the start of its sound or time t3 and
    		change its pan to center.
    
    You may even be able to get a delayed decay by modifying some layer
    parameter to reduce the dynamic range of the layer.  If you're using a
    single layer patch, I can try this out in a few days and report
    results.
    
    >>> Oh yeah - months ago I sent Kurzweil $3.00 for a new, revised 1000
    >>> manual.. did any of you order and receive it ?  
    
    	Yes, I ordered it and got it about 4-8 weeks later.  Not that it's
    that much better than the first version, but I did get it.  This was
    before they were bought up by Young Chang (or whatever the name of the
    company was that bought them).  Perhaps a phone call is in order to
    make sure your order didn't get lost in the shuffle.
    
    - John -    

    re: .234
    
    I looked up some details in the "Programming Reference 1000 Series
    Synthesizers" (one of the 2 books in the new doc set) last night and
    can add the following information.
    
    It appears that hacking the patches into new ROM locations (1 ROM
    location for each pan position) may not be necessary:
    
    	If you go into EDIT CHANNELS by answering YES at the Edit	  
    	Channels display, you'll get into some submenus that allow you to
    	edit specific parameters for each channel the 1000 is using.
    
    	To modify the pan position, on other channels responding to the
    	same patch, you can modify the PAN parameter for the desired
    	channel.  Thus, you can set your primary note to be channel 1:
    	center, 1st echo as channel 2:left, 2nd echo as channel 3: Right,
    	etc.  The documentation doesn't make the inter-relationship between
    	the patch's pan setting and the channel pan-setting clear so some
    	experimentation may still be necessary.
    
    	To get the echoes to be quieter than the original source WITHOUT
    	having to scale velocities in the copied sequencer tracks (that
    	have been "re-channelized"), you can use the VOLUME channel
    	parameter to change the relative volume.  Thus, channel 1 could
    	have 0 db, channel 2 could have -6db, channel 3: -12 db, etc.
    
    On first glance I didn't see an obvious place to have the PAN
    continuous controller message control the patch or the channel pan
    parameter.  The only possible values listed for the PAN parameters were
    L to R (where you move the * across the stereo field), Auto, and Inv
    Auto (the latter 2 rely on MIDI note # to place the sound in the stereo
    field).  If these parameters could be controlled by MIDI controller
    info, I think "Control Source List" would have been listed as a
    possible parameter.  If I learn otherwise, I'll post here.
    
    Also, my idea for making all the delays happen in a single (3-or-4
    layer patch) looks like it will work if the original patch only needs 1
    layer.  Depending on how you want the echoes to decay, however, you may
    have to fidget with the attack/decay envelops to get the echoes timed
    correctly.  This leads me to guess that trying to set the PAN and
    VOLUME parameters for different channels and then using the same patch
    on different channels with offset sequencer tracks is the easiest way
    to go.
    
    Hope this helps.  (Note: I didn't get to try any of this last night
    because my studio is completely unplugged.  I had to move everything
    out from under a floor that was getting replaced and didn't want the
    dust to get inside everything.)
    
    - John -

RE: .233 (Karl, MIDI Pan)
    
    From your note title, it sounds like you actually tried this already,
    and it didn't work.  I, unlike John, am pretty surprised if it didn't,
    since I used to do a similar thing with my (former) ESQ-1.
    
    Each separate channel should have its own "copy" of the patch - i.e.,
    when you select a patch on a channel, I would expect the synth to read
    patch parameters into a *per-channel* "buffer", and that any real-time
    changes would be made in that buffer area, not in some common buffer
    area, much less the patch itself.  For example, select patch 2
    (Strings) on both channel 1 and channel 2.  A big sweeping pitch bend
    on channel one should NOT affect channel 2 (and Pitch Bend is nothing
    more than a MIDI CC, just like Pan is CC #10).  If it does, I'd be
    inclined to view the MIDI implementation as hosed.
    
    In other words, the following setup *should* work.  If it doesn't, post
    something here and I'll go home and try it on my unit (and my Proteus,
    for that matter) ...
    
    	CHAN 1: patchx	MIDI CC setting untouched
    	CHAN 2: patchx	MIDI CC .EQS. 0	     (ie hard left)
    	CHAN 3: patchx	MIDI CC .EQS. 127    (ie hard right)
    
    ASSUMPTIONS: 64 is midpoint.  If not, make the 0 value a negative 127.
    		 Performer allows U to specify CC#/values at will.
    
    BTW - I got the new manuals.  They were better, but not all that great. 
    There's still too much button pushing involved in getting around within
    the thing.  I wish they would have put a data knob on it (like
    Proteus).
    
+b

    >>> ... For example, select patch 2 (Strings) on both channel 1 and
    >>> channel 2.  A big sweeping pitch bend on channel one should NOT
    >>> affect channel 2 (and Pitch Bend is nothing more than a MIDI CC,
    >>> just like Pan is CC #10).  If it does, I'd be inclined to view the
    >>> MIDI implementation as hosed.
    
    However, the documentation says both the Pitch Wheel and the Pan
    parameters are a global type of control source.  Then is says "Global
    sources affect every note that is generated by a given Program, with
    all notes receiving the same control signal."  It makes no mention that
    the same Program on different channels would behave differently than
    notes on another channel.  (Unless, I've forgotten and pitch bend and
    pan parameters actaully are tagged with a Channel ID in which case
    Brad's suggestion SHOULD work.)
    
    I just don't see supporting evidence in the documentation that Brad's
    idea will work (though it would be nice if it did).
    
    - John -

    I think the difference is the way in which we are understanding the
    word "program".  I take program to mean "the current selected patch (or
    timbre, or whatever you call it) on a given MIDI channel".  It sounds
    like you (John) are interpreting it to read "any MIDI channel which
    happens to have patch X current".
    
    Hmmm.  Now I'm tempted to give this a whirl myself ...
    
+b

    >>> It sounds like you (John) are interpreting it to read "any MIDI
    >>> channel which happens to have patch X current".
    
    Right.  This is my interpretation.  My studio is still unplugged while
    I finish vacuuming the dust and wood remnants from the cellar but I'm
    hoping to try it out when everything's all set up, too.
    
    I am wondering if the Pan parameter being set on a MIDI channel basis
    (via the aforementioned channel submenus) is a work-around they
    implemented to more closely match Brad's interpretation.  I'm also
    suspicious that Brad's method will work since there is no claim
    anywhere that the Pan MIDI message can affect the Pan parameters of a
    patch.  (If this is a restriction, maybe it's due to the processor
    speed problems similar to that which cause the "arpeggio effect" we
    discussed in earlier notes.)
    
    - John -

    Got this off of USENET by way of CompuServe...notice it's ex DECcie
    Jeff Winston posting the poop.
    
From: [email protected] (Pete Lyall)
Subject: New Kurzweil Stuff
Date: 7 Nov 90 02:27:31 GMT
 
I saw this on CompuServe's MIDI Forum.... thought it was worth passing
on...
 
Pete
 
=======================================================================
#: 36051 S2/Synths/Samplers/FXs
    05-Nov-90  19:54:07
Sb: Kurzweil Upgrades
Fm: Jeff Winston [Young Chang/Kurzweil] 76464,215
To: All
 
Here's the scoop on K1000 keyboard and expander upgrades:
 
Available within 30 days or so:
 
1) An upgrade kit for K1000SE, K1000SE-2, K1000SE-Extended (or the 1000 SEX as
we liked to call it) and the K1000SE-Extended 2 will soon be available
containing PXA, PXB, & v5.32 software (the latest and final revision). This
will turn your keyboard into a PRO-76.
 
2) An upgrade kit for 1000PX+ (23-button) containing PXB and V5.32 software. 
This will turn it into a PRO-I.
 
These should be shipping in about 30 days, along with the K1200, and PRO-76
keyboards, and PRO-1 expander.
 
In the works:
There will be an upgrade kit for 8-button 1000PX units containing PXA,  PXB,
and V5.32 software, not sure when, though (but probably by spring).
 
The upgrade kits will be roughly in the $200 - $400 range and are available at
your dealer, and NOT from us directly.
 
Just FYI (don't quote me)...We're still discussing what to do for you SX, HX,
AX, and GX owners.  We've talked about a kit that upgrades any SX, HX, or AX to
a PRO-II (SX, SXA, HX, HXA, & V5 software), but minimum ROM quantities are
large, and we're selling to a smaller user base. If nothing else I think we
still may possibly offer just the V5 software upgrades.  So sit tight, we
haven't forgotten you guys.  (but it wouldn't hurt to bug your dealer, nothing
like demand to spur our marketing guys into action).
 
For the GX, though I haven't heard anything, I would think that if we ordered
more HX ROMs, we might offer a GX -> PRO III upgrade at the same time (PROIII =
GX + HX + HXA).
 
So, 1000-series owners...we haven't forgotten you, just took us a while to get
back on our feet.
 
regards
 
 
=============================================================================
 
 
-- 
Pete Lyall                                                   Contel Corporation
Compuserve: 76703,4230              OS9_Net: (805) 375-1401 (24hr 300/1200/2400)
Internet: [email protected]     UUCP: {hacgate,jplgodo,voder}!wlbr!pete 

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From: [email protected] (Pete Lyall)
Subject: Latest Kurzweil upgrade buzz
Date: 13 Dec 90 18:11:32 GMT
 
Hot off the CIS presses...
 
Pete Lyall
==================================================================
#: 41822 S2/Synths/Samplers/FXs
    12-Dec-90  18:28:40
Sb: #Kurzweil Update 12/12/90
Fm: Jeff Winston 76464,215
To: ALL
 
Greetings Kurzweilains,  Today's hot flashes:
 
1) Due to our ROM vendor missing his ship dates, all K1000 upgrade kits will
unfortunately be delayed until early January.  Sorry folks, we're doing what we
can, we're but a tiny customer to the big foreign monolith, but we're all ready
to ship as soon as the ROMs arrive. This may also affect the availability of
some PRO-I expanders, but again only a few weeks of delay is expected.  We
appreciate your patience.
 
2) It looks like there <will> be an upgrade kit for SX and HX expanders.  This
kit will contain SX, SXA, HX, HXA, and V5 software,   transforming your unit
into a complete orchestral expander (these were shown under the name PRO-II a
couple of NAMMs ago, but I don't think any were ever shipped).  From
experience, I can testify that this will be like getting a whole new expander
(one that some say blows the Proteus II away) for only a few hundred bucks.  It
really is an amazing unit.   We hope to have the kits shipping by the end of
January.
 
3) Though I can't give the details, we are working on a way for GX owners to
get V5 upgrades, also in the January/Feb. timeframe.
 
4) We are also making progress on getting daughter-board kits to allow
"original" K1000 owners to add PXA and PXB, more news here as it becomes
available.
 
[Is there anyone I missed? 8-} ]
 
BTW, if any of you guys know Chris Marinaro, our Pro-products marketing wizard,
he's the guy to thank for all this (and a lot of extra hours he's put in to
make it happen!)
 
keep the faith
/j 
==================================================================
 
-- 
Pete Lyall                                                   Contel Corporation
Compuserve: 76703,4230              OS9_Net: (805) 375-1401 (24hr 300/1200/2400)
Internet: [email protected]     UUCP: {hacgate,jplgodo,voder}!wlbr!pete 

Has anyone been able to (or even tried) to get docs on sysex for the 1000px?
I'm thinking of writing a Mac editor/librarian interface.  I know about
ObjectMover, but I'm more interested in doing my own thing for the fun of it.

Jim

>>> Has anyone been able to (or even tried) to get docs on sysex for the 1000px?

    Opcode has finally released their K1000 series editor/librarian for the
Macintosh.  (I just installed it last night and haven't really used it yet.)
Thus, they were able to get the SysEx details from Kurzweil/Young Chang.  I'd 
send a letter to Kurzweil/Young Chang and ask.  I think they're still at the 
Waltham address.

    Of course, since the Opcode Ed/Lib costs ~$250US, it is completely
understandable why you'd want to write your own.  I still remain to be convinced
that the $250 is really worth it; not from lack of features but in terms of
price vs. how much real use it will get.

    Things to note about the Opcode Ed/Lib:

	- it's based on Galaxy since the "About..." menu results in a
           Galaxy credits screen with a small annotation about the K1000
	   subset.  Also relies heavily on Galaxy concepts like bundles.

	- it's called K1000 but works for all permutations of 1000-series
	   machines with any assortment of soundblocks (stock, -A, -B)

	- like ObjectMover, it works best if there's a completed circuit of
	    MIDI connections (i.e., Mac out to Kurz in AND Kurz out to Mac in).
	    This is to make use of some handshaking protocols or status messages
	    about normal successful completion and the like.

	- unlike ObjectMover, it really does seem to provide full-featured
	    graphic editing of all the various things to twiddle.  It's NOT
	    just a librarian and doesn't just implement a replica of the
	    front panel like ObjectMover does.

More as I use it,

- John -

    There is a Digital and COMMUSIC alum named Rick Cohen working in
    software at Kurzweil (at least, he was still there the last time we
    talked a few months ago). You could ask him for the spec, and say hi
    from COMMUSIC as well.
    
    - Hoyt

    re: .243
    
    >>> Of course, since the Opcode Ed/Lib costs ~$250US ...
    
    Just a minor correction.  The editor/librarian for the Kurzweil
    1000-series lists for ~$250US but I actually paid ~$170US.  Not much
    solace in that, I'm sure.  It's still a pretty large chunk of change
    for an non-generic Ed/Lib in my opinion.  (But I guess it is a pretty
    complicated piece of software.)
    
    - John -

Now that Kurzweil is "back in business", I've been hearing some rumors of
package deals on PX-A / B soundblocks.  I have heard that the PX-A alone
may be as low as $225.   I've also heard that they may put the A/B/new-op-sys
all together in a package.   Has anyone heard anything more concrete?

Also, has anyone installed these themselves?  How many slots are available
in the PX and the K1000?   Just curious...

andy

    I wouldn't install it myself.  Because I have one of the first 100 PX
    modules, a "simple" upgrade took 4 weeks, because of some board
    changes.  I believe there's sockets (not slots) for four additional
    ROMs in the PX/AX/HX/GX/XX and K1000 model.
    
    karl

I managed to find a source for a PXA upgrade with OS V5
although it dried up and is no longer available from what I hear.

I did however vhoose to install the upgrade myself.  There are are seven
chips involved (four os and 3 PXA if I remember correctly).  All are
replaced into sockets on the board.  There remain several empty positions for
the PXB chips.

The most difficult part of the upgrade is cutting an etch on the board, and
soldering in a "jumper" between two solder points on the board.  There are
three versions of the board that are out there with different instructions for
each.  Mine of course was the hardest of the three requiring disasessembling
the entirte unit to get to the solder side of the board to make the etch
cut.

OS V5 completely reorganizes the sounds into 10 "PLISTS" (Program Lists) of
100 sounds each.  Program change 101 selects PLIST 1, 102 PLIST 2, and so forth.
Then program changes under 100 (0-99) select patches within the slected bank.
Yes, two program changes to select a patch.

You can completely define the contents of the PLISTS so they are soft.  This
means you might want to define the first bank to have your most often used
patches so only one patch change is require to pull it up.

Most of the other changes are in support of the 23 button units and/or the
keyboard versions.  The only PX interesting features include many settings now
being retained across power up/down cycles, and a "sequence player".  With
a new Object Mover version you can load standard MIDI sequences in and it will
play them.  I haven't tried this.  This is what I remember off the top.  I'm
still learning.

Cheers,

	Jim

    Thanks, Jim.  first solid info I've seen re V5 OS.  With 225 or so
    available patches, the original plus the PXA sounds, I've had no
    trouble creating a custom RXMAP that has 128 of the best.. so to me
    about 100 of the sounds are never played.  
    
    I don't know about the tradeoff; having multiple banks of 99 patches
    each.  Plus, to implement this feature would mean that all my existing
    sequences with imbedded KZ patch changes would have to be altered.
    
    Congrats for having the hair to do your own etch.  outch.
    
    karl

Thanks Karl,

It was a little harry however the instructions were pretty clear.  The only
moment of fear was scrapping away with my swiss army knife and wondering whether
I've cut enough or too much...

One other new feature is finally being able to request the unit thru the front 
panel to do midi-dump.  Therefore you can save things easily and load them 
back via a librarian (e.g. I use my KORG T1 disk).

Cheers,

	Jim

    Amazing, this saga.  I just got the v5 upgrade w/ PXA & PXB installed,
    but not because I was looking to upgrade ...
    
    For those brave enough to look inside the unit, you'll find a couple
    weird-looking chips, appx 3/4" square, with the letters VLSI on them. 
    These are called "ARNOLD" chips (no doubt in deference to John Arnold,
    the famed stockholder 8-).  Anyway, if one dies, it'll set you back
    $120.  If both die, it's twice that.  One of mine died.  Ouch.
    
    Since I had to spend bux to get an Arnold replaced, I decided to go
    ahead and upgrade.  Got it done at Sweetwater Sound in Ft. Wayne, IN;
    they wanted $300 for both PX blox and O/S v5.32.  I went and visited
    the place, and would have no problem recommending them to someone who
    wanted to get an upgrade done.  Ask for Chuck.
    
    The O/S upgrade *supposedly* improved the MIDI response problems.  IMO,
    there isn't much difference with heavy layering, although single layer
    patches (ref. Grand Piano) seem a bit more "crisp" - could simply be
    power of suggestion, though.  It still doesn't respond nearly as fast
    as Proteus does.
    
    As for PX-n sounds, the tenor sax samples are very nice.  There's one
    sax patch where you can fade in a growl using aftertouch.  It's a bit
    tricky to master, but sounds great.  The steel-string guitar samples
    are okay - while not up to par with Proteus, they're still usable.  The
    distorted guitar sux, IMO.  I share Karl's earlier sentiments about the
    Dual Elec Piano - too much midrange honk, but with a little tweaking,
    it could be exceptional.  Electric pianos are much better than previous
    ones, and are very realistic (read: Rhodes-ish, not FM-ish).  The drums
    are nice, although there's one set that sounds like it came from an old
    Angel record (if anyone remembers them).  More boom than an A-bomb. 
    Great for teenage guitar heroes who have just learned A-barres (he sez,
    waxing cynical).  The latin percussion seems okay, but I didn't spend
    much time listening since I'm not too interested in those sounds.  Oh -
    sorry, Steve ... still no vibraslap.  The flutes are very good, and the
    brass samples aren't bad (although again, Proteus has better brass).
    
    The new programs (patches) are much more usable than the ones supplied
    with the standard PX.  The various plucks, pops and whacks fit well
    with the looped waves (why is everyone trying to sound like a D50?). 
    In short, it's much more usable as a pop-oriented synth now.  I'm
    somewhat disappointed that most of the organ programs in the original
    PX disappeared!  Rock Organ and Jazz Organ, along with all the
    "Dynamic" (velocity sensitive) organ patches are gone.  8-(  Another
    small gripe - the Leslie effect still takes too much time to kick in to
    suit my taste.  I had hoped that, with all the other improvements, they
    would have quickened it up a bit.  But all in all, I would characterize
    the improvement in patch programming as "100%".
    
    Along with the upgrade, I got a nice set of "release notes" bound in
    much the same way as the revised manuals.  There is some ambiguity as
    to which sections are germane to which units, but that's not a big deal
    to me.
    
    Perhaps the greatest novelty is the ability of the thing to have
    built-in "demo sequences" (boy, has Proteus made an impact!).  If you
    have Macintosh Object Mover, you can actually load your own sequences
    into RAM for playback (assuming you have a sequencer that can write
    style '0' MIDI files).  No, the Atari OM doesn't do this for you. 8-(
    But the manual talks about the program being only $10, so I don't guess
    you can expect too much.  The manual also implies that the unit has
    only 24k of RAM (xlating to roughly 3K notes), so the PX wouldn't
    function well as a sequence-player ... but the capability is at least
    interesting.
    
    In summary, a dead Arnold will cost you $120.  An O/S upgrade for the
    PX (with blox A & B) will cost you $300.  And the arpeggiation problem
    still ain't fixed.  But all in all, I felt the upgrade was worth it. 
    The thing plays nicely now with my Proteus and other units.
    
+b

... or more if my (estate's?) lawyers are good.

Seriously, though.  Thanks for the update.  Since I have the PX-A already, maybe
I'll give Sweetwater a call and see if there's a way to just get the PX-B and
OS upgrade.

By the way, being "the famed stockholder", you may be interested to know that
last time I called about the bankruptcy, I got speak to Aaron Kleiner (one
of the few people who still work for Kurzweil Music Systems) about the chapter
11 case.  It turns out that an initial plan to settle with the creditors was
rejected so there's a new plan in the works.  I will probably get 1 of 2 
options: wait until it's all over and done with (~2-4 years) and write off my 
stock as officially worthless or hope the current plan is accepted and sell my
stock back for $1.  What a thrill!  Glad I'm not depending on that stock to
help my MIDI habit along.

Thanks for the comic relief.  It made my day brighter.

- John -

    Just as I finished a commissioned project my 1000PX died - would blow
    the fuse instantly.  I sent it off yesterday.  I trust that this is a
    simple power supply problem and not an Arnold Chip Problem (ACP).  
    
    Boy, the things I learn in here..
    
    karl (still officially on vacation)

        <<< Note 1066.253 by SALSA::MOELLER "intentionally Left Bank" >>>

    >Just as I finished a commissioned project my 1000PX died - would blow
    >the fuse instantly.  I sent it off yesterday.  I trust that this is a
    >simple power supply problem and not an Arnold Chip Problem (ACP).  
    
    fixed and back in 3 days.  Power supply.  $62.50 including shipping.
    
    Hope my custom RXMAP is still in place - that was a LOT of work.
    
    karl

    I noticed an ad in Keyboard this month from a company called KNA Inc,
    who claim to be liquidating Kurzweil products that Young Chang
    inherited.  All the standard 1000 series modules are $500 with the
    1000PX Plus listed at $800.  There is also something called the 1200AX
    Expander listed for $800.  Does anyone know what this is???  
    
    Brian
    

    Could you please reply with contact info (esp. phone number)? Thanks!

RE 1200AX  I believe the 1200 AX contains all of the samples (soundfiles) that
are in the 1000 HX horn expander and the 1000SX string expander.

Mike D

re: -.1

You said:


      <<< Note 1066.257 by PROSE::DIORIO "I'll have the blowfish sushi" >>>
                    -< 1000HX + 1000 SX = 1200 AX (almost) >-

RE 1200AX  I believe the 1200 AX contains all of the samples (soundfiles) that
are in the 1000 HX horn expander and the 1000SX string expander.

Mike D


But I say:

I think the HX and SX combinatio was the 1000AX or 1000AX+.  The 1200AX
is probably an enhanced with the latest software (V5 or so?) and more sounds
but I don't know.  I am pretty sure on the 1000AX though.

Chad

    	The ad is on page 160 of this months Keyboard magazine...
    
    	The company is KNA Inc, (504) 272-5595.  They are an auction house
    that seem to know very little about the products.  The equipment is in
    a warehouse in Waltham and with an appointment, you can pick it up. 
    There is a 12% "buyers" commision that is added to the listed prices
    with a 2% discount for cash.
    
    	I've looked through old keyboard magazines for anything about the
    1200AX and come up empty.  All I can find is the 1200 PRO 1 expander
    which sounds like a fully loaded 1000PX (168 sound files, which can
    be combined up to 4 at a time with 1000 patch locations, 24 voices...)
    
    	This is some of what is listed in the ad.
    
    1000PX, HX, SX, GX $500
    1000PX Plus $800
    1200AX $800
    
    K250 $3995
    
    Midiboard $900
    
    K1000 $1100
    K1000SE $1150
    K1000SE extended $1350
    
    Ensemble expander $550
    
    

    Lessee, 12% "commission", 2% "discount", 5% "for Bill Weld"....
    
    						Brian
    
    P.S. Did Kurzweil ever make the software to play with these toys
    available for the Atari as promised?  

    I never heard of a 1200AX.. the 'AX' is a 1000 model.. never heard one.
    
    karl

    
    
    I thought I saw the Object Mover for Atari listed in the ad.
    
    

I've scanned this notesfile (scoured is perhaps a more accurate term) for
opinions (which abound) on 88-key controllers, trying to get a feel (?!) for
(a) what the best options are, and (b) what the best prices are on those
options. I'd love to upgrade to an 88-key controller at some point, and I
figured I may as well be ready to jump when the "right deal" comes along...at
least mentally, if not necessarily financially, heh, heh.

Although judgements in the various notes were mixed, to say the least, in
general I got the impression that I wouldn't find the action of the K1000
suitable, but that the Midiboard is among the best at emulating the feel of a
good acoustic piano. Competition in this department seems to be the Roland
RDS-300 and the Yamaha KX-88.

Given the age of many of the notes I found, I'd appreciate updated opinions on
the relative merits of the Midiboard and K1000 as controllers, and of the
K1000 keyboard and rackmount units' piano sounds. The price on the Midiboard
seems pretty attractive compared to a new KX-88 or RDS-300; the SGU prices
don't blow me away, though.

BTW, I called the number supplied in .259 (thanks, Brian!) and found out that
(a) they don't have enormous quantities of any of these units (like under 20),
and (b) if they don't manage to sell everything they will have an auction in
late October/early November to clear out. They have a fair amount of equipment
they describe as "of more interest for technicians" which will also go on the
block. Who knows, if I'm still "between contracts" at that point I may even get
to hit the auction...

Thanks for all input-
			Bob

    IMHO the MIDIboard is the most piano-like keyboard ever produced.  It
    was just way too expensive and way too heavy to sell very well.  It's
    also out-of-date in terms of its user-interface (when compared to
    something like a Roland A-80 which you should also consider if you're
    considering controllers without SGU's) although NOT as much out-of-date
    with regard to features.
    
    The Kurzweill piano sounds of the K1000 are regarded by most to be
    state-of-the-art.  I am quite happy with my Roland, but I acknowledge
    that the sound of the Kurzy is definite a notch or two up.  But IMHO,
    the K-1000 keyboard is unacceptable (although I know LOTS of good
    keyboard players who seem to deal with it).  To me, it's NOT a weighted
    keyboard and to my fingers it even feels "cheaper" than most synth
    keyboards.

    MIDIboard - heavy, expensive.  Kurzweil piano sounds - great.  K1000
    keyboard - short (6.5 octaves?), cheesy action.  Not acceptable for me.
    
    karl
    
    .. article in Keyboard early this year comparing Keyboard controllers.
    KX88 still being sold, got good grades in terms of programmability.

    All I can really do here is echo what's been said. I've got a K1000 and
    absolutely love it. In my experience, you CANNOT beat the piano sound,
    and a lot of the other sounds (strings/chior/clarinet/....) are among
    the best. I agree for piano enthusiasts, the keyboard is all but
    unacceptable. They tried to get a 'piano-like' feel ,,,or better yet,
    an 'un-synth-like' feel into the K1000. It doesn't feel like a synth,
    because the key throw is long like a piano, but you feel like you're
    pushing agaist an over damped spring. I am not originaly a piano
    player, so I don't mind this action. It's worth it for the SGU.
    
             A few cents thrown in...
    
                    Frank

    I haven't played a MIDIboard for over a year but strongly considered one
when I was in the market for an 88-key controller.  The comments (made by me
and others) at the time were:

    * The feel of every keyboard is pretty subjective.  People who had tried
	the MIDIboard reacted from very negative to very positive in terms of
	feel.  This was 2 or more people playing 2 or more different MIDIboards.
	Thus, I am unsure whether I would like (or dislike) every MIDIboard 
	the same amount.  Since the `deals' we're talking about are probably
	all sales final, I would take along a sound module and some headphones
	and play it before I gave anyone $900 cash for any musical instrument.

    * The MIDIboard has quite a few nice features.  It has release velocity
	which is something I wish my (~US$2000) Roland A-80 had.  It is heavy.

    * Think about who will service the thing if it ever breaks.  There are
	88 keys and numerous electronic components that could break.  The 
	main reason I opted for the A-80 over the MIDIboard when I made my
	purchase decision (quite a while ago) was support.  (The A-80 was new
	and the MIDIboard seemed to be sinking along with Kurzweil.)  This
	was BEFORE Young Chang bought Kurzweil's name and technology and when
	the 2 were about the same price.  Needless to say, your mileage could
	vary.

Bottom line:  Could be a good deal if you are tolerant of some risk at buying
	a close-out item that approaches $1000.

Be careful out there,

- John -

P.S.  I was kidding, the main reason I chose the A-80 over the MIDIboard was
	so I could revel in having another Roland manual around the studio.

P.P.S.  That first P.S. was the actual joke.

Sounds like any pianist-type folks (e.g., moi) would do better to look
elsewhere for a controller, but the rackmounts are worth considering. Still
sounds steep compared to stuff like the Proteus units, though.

Thanks for all the input. (BTW, Dave, I had seen the A-80 in a rag and have some
literature on the way concerning it. Always nice to dream...)

Bob

    Rick Cohen (formerly DEC, then Kurzweil, now Young-Chang) says that the
    1200AX is a 23-button (a la 1000PX-Plus) box with the SX and HX ROMs;
    if you add the SX-A and HX-A ROMs to the 1200AX, you have the
    equivalent of the Pro-2.
    
    The Ensemble expander is a 1000PX with 23 buttons for greater
    ease-of-use, but no programmability.
    
    Rick says that the K2000 (about $3K) is going to be the most capable
    box in its class, and with east Asian manufacturing should provide the
    margins to keep him and his co-engineers employed. Real Soon Now.

RE: controllers
    
    I've played just about every controller known to man in the past two
    years.  The MIDIboard responds much more like a piano that *any* other
    board I've ever played (incl. KX88, A80, K8000, etc), but it's STILL
    not a true piano.  This is not to say that other boards aren't
    comparable or effective - I purchased a KX88, and am quite happy with
    it, even if its action is not authentic Steinway.
    
    I did notice one thing about the MIDIboard (and former DECcie Ron Ross
    confirmed, so I'm not going nuts) that was annoying - in implementing
    poly-aftertouch, there is a rubber base laid at the keybed bottom. 
    When played heavily, keys tended to "recoil" or bounce a bit at the
    bottom.  This meant virtually nothing ... until you try playing hard at
    a 3 hour gig.  It's very fatiguing to wrists and forearms.
    
    Sorry to extend the rathole.
    
+b

  So what's the bottom line, is it still worth getting one of these puppies
  for ~$500?  Isn't that what they were blown out for a couple years ago
  and everyone scrurried to track them down - one blow out after another -
  like Elvis sightings.  Is it still worth it?  An earlier reply mentioned
  he wasn't "blown away" by the price.

  I have a U-220 I'm very happy with, especially for the piano, so I wouldn't
  be after, say the 1000PX for the piano.  But are there enough good
  complementary sounds?  (Andy, you've got a U-220 and a 1000PX don't you?)

  re: MIDIboard:

  I bought a used MIDI board a couple years ago, for $1050-$1100.  I thought 
  it had a great piano feel, but the thing was a frickin monster compared to 
  other 88-key controllers.  So I sold it a few months later.  Now I have
  a Studio-88 (which I also got used for I think $1000).  Not as good of a
  feel, but a lot smaller/portable.  Now you can get the MIDIboard NEW for
  less than I paid for either of mine USED.  If you've got a place for it
  and you're not going to gig with it, I'd look into it.

  Service/support may still be an issue.  (I think it will be with mine too,
  I believe the Studio 88 is made in Italy, and it's not exactly a widely
  known/used company/controller from what I know.  Hopefully I'll never have
  to find out!)  But Kurzweil looks like it may be in an upswing.  So who
  knows...

-TR

A friend of mine called KNA Inc about buying some Kurzweil gear. They told 
him of a unit called the 1000 EX, that supposedly has all of the same 
sounds as the 1000 PX, but doesn't have the editing capability or has a reduced
sound editing capability. I've never heard of this beast before. Have you?

Also, this same friend of mine recently bought a used MIDIboard from 
Caruso's (KNA Inc didn't have one apparently). They told him that moving 
the MIDIboard can cause it to develop problems with the action, and that if
it does develop probelms after moving it, it will have to be readjusted.
And sure enough, when he got it all set up, the top note is sticking, and 
the action has other anomilies. I've never heard of this syndrome before.
Have you? Maybe it's me, but I think that you should be able to move the 
friggin' thing from the music store to your home and have it work right, 
without having to be "readjusted". Something's wrong here....

Any comments or additional info?

Mike D

1000 EX:
  I called KNA last week and got the same story.  I found it strange though
  for a unit with "less" (same sounds, less edit capabilities) they wanted
  *more*.  ($550 as compared to $500 for the 1000PX)  However she did offer
  me the unit for the same price as the 1000PX since they were out of PXs.

  Seems they are somewhat unorganized over there, she really didn't have a
  clue to what they had left or not.  She said to call back in a couple
  weeks, presumably after they do some sort of inventory on the warehouse,
  and she'd know if there were any PXs left. ^8)

  They also said I could go by the warehouse and look at one, but they
  had to set up an appointment.  It appears there's only someone there at
  certain times on certain days.  Also, I would have to call right before
  I left so that the person would know to be looking for me when I arrived.

MIDIboard:
  As I mentioned in my earlier reply, I bought a used MIDIboard too.
  I got it home (~45 min ride), no problems with the keyboard/action.
  I sold it a few months later, never heard of any problems from the person
  I sold it too.  So there's 3 hands with no problem.  (assuming 1 + 3 really
  didn't have any problems)

  Maybe Carusos knew of the quirk in THAT particular unit.  I haven't heard
  otherwise to that being a problem in general with the MIDIboard.

-Tom

I've been a-settin' and a-thinkin' about this deal. Figured I'd call tech
support to see what'd happen if I really *needed* them.

What I found out is:

	- the KNA-sold units are not warranteed, but are supported like any
	others, in terms of repair etcetera.

	- these boxes are apparently either refurbished or have been assembled
	from whatever was found "lying around" by KNA. That doesn't necessarily
	mean they're no good, but it does mean they are *not* fresh-from-the-
	factory, passed-all-QC items.

All things considered, I think I'll pass, myself. I might not were I a
seasoned hardware junkie, but since I'm more on the "soft" side.

All the ruckus has, however, made me lust seriously after a K1200 Pro 1, the
descendant of the 1000PX. I'm not a MIDIholic, though, really, I'm just a
"social sampler"...I can control it...

Bob

re: MIDIboard

I remember  trying  the  MIDIboard  back  when  I  was  looking  for an 88-key
controller with decent piano feel.  I agree about the "bounciness" of the keys
- I think that was one thing that turned me off about it.  I liked the A80 the
best, but settled on a KX88 for the right price/performance ratio.

re: a few back - a former DECcie who works for Kurzweil/YC...

Do you  suppose  this  guy could get Kurzweil to send me some info I requested
last  January?  First,  I  sent a letter.  Then I followed up with a few phone
calls and left messages.  No response.  I was looking for 3 things:

1. SysEx info on the 1000PX so I can write my own editor/librarian.
2. The "free" upgrade to the manual that was offered quite a while ago.
3. Information about their expansion offerings for the 1000PX.

Sometimes knowing someone on the inside can help facilitate these things...

Jim

   >2. The "free" upgrade to the manual that was offered quite a while ago.
    
    I was on the phone with them when my 1000PX locked up (easily 'freed')
    and asked for the new manual.  They sent it/them.  IMO, just as
    confusing as the original.
    
    karl

    Kurzweil Pro 1's (new), can be had for $988 from Goldman's Gear
    Exchange in Amherst NY (716)833-6111

         
    I spent the day at the auction held be KNA.  My first auction ever,
    and you really have to be on your toes.  All Macs except for an old 512
    had been sold previously.  They were determined to liquid all be
    the end of the day.
    
    Anyway, some dealers were buying the majority of the stuff,
    particularly some guy from Sweetwater Sound in Indiana.
    
    The deals were unresitable, so i picked up a 1200AX for $265, a 250
    piano bench for $15, Mac Object Mover V2 for $10, A headphone preamp
    system with 4 satellite boxes for $75.
    
    Among some of the deals that went down:
    
    	Kawai Digital Piano for $125
        MicroSequencers for $60
    	Complete 250 Sample Library on 3.5" disk - $15
        SX Expander - $175
    	1000AX - $235
    	1200 PRO III - $350
    	K1000SE - $375
    	K1000  - $400
    	K250 sound blocks - $35
    	Gibson Guitar w/midi - 370
    	
    One guy bought a K250 for 3K. For do it yourselfers, they sold K250
    RMX kits for $350, (In plastic bags that had all the parts and all
    sound blocks).  Whole pallets of Upgrade Kits, Object movers, Sound
    Blocks were picked for $100 and up (mostly by Sweetwater).  Tons of
    cords, Elec test gear, office stuff, half built K250s, EG-20s,
    MIDIBoards, MINIBoards, Parts, cases, covers, stands, Leds,
    Customer returns, your-name-it, everything must go!
    
    Dave-who-hopes-his-1200AX-isn't-DOA...
    Tons of other stuff I can't remember.  One guy bought a 250
    	
    
    

    I arrived, looked around, and left. Given that every was "as is" and
    there was no way to test anything (no outlets), I had to go with my
    theory that the stuff available was still there because it was broken.
    I suppose the kits could be another story, but I'm not that kind of
    handy.
    
    Did you happen to note the price at which the HP Vectras sold? There
    were about 25 of these, brand-new in boxes: 2 720K floppies, full-size
    CGA-standard LCD screen, in a 14-pound laptop package. I remember how
    amazingly cool these were when they came out. Nowadays you can buy the
    same functionality with a better screen and half the weight for $500.
    
    I hope your 1200AX turns out well.
                                                                         

    
    I saw and chatted with Major::Tom, but the rest of you I don't know
    by sight.... Too bad.  Maybe we could have puzzled things out together.
    
    My AX1200 is fine, but it came with no manual.  I'm quite favorably
    impressed with it.  I think the electronic music world overlooked
    Kurzweil because they were sample-players and too pricey.  The
    programmability looks very good--I need to review this note until I can
    get a manual.
    
    I got one of the "new in the box" units, and it is perfect, just no
    manual.
    
    I got one of the MS-1 MicroSequencers, and it was completely stock--had
    patch cords, manuals, warranty cards, etc.  The box was pre-labeled for
    shipment to Goodman music in California--I think that Goodmans bid on
    the lot, so the ones not sold will go to them--actually, now my memory
    jerks.  Chuck Surman from Sweetwater bought them, even though he hates
    them. He said maybe he'll give one away with each Kurzweil module as
    memorobilia.
    
    I wish I had known more about the product line.  Now that I have used
    and loved the AX1200, I'm interested in the other models.
    
    What ROMS can I plug into this thing?  I probably have to get them from
    Sweetwater, so a price estimate would be nice, too.
    
    
    	Eirikur
    

I was also there.  I'm afraid I don't know most of you by sight either.  I bid on a
and bought a 1200AX as well.  I got mine (without a box but also new) for $200.
I found a manual for a 1000AX-Plus which I believe is the same as the 1200AX.
I have a call into David Fox at Young Chang to ask.

It was quite an experience.  I half wish I bought one of the K250 RMX kits for
$310.  Sounds like an interesting bargain...

	- Jim

    	I was there too...  I bought 2 of the K250 RMX kits...  They are
    somewhat less than complete.  I'm short the power system harness and
    line cord filter assembly on both kits.  One has a very old CPU board
    (tested in 1984, I didn't think the 250RMX even existed then).  Its
    also missing assorted RAMs and one of the 68000 ROMs.  I'm not sure I
    hold out much hope for that one.  The guy from Sweetwater has extra
    tech manuals for sale.  I assume I'll be able to sort out the power
    harness from that.  This will be the deal of the century if I can get
    even one of the kits to fly.  I suspect its going to be a long and
    interesting experience.
    
    	There is an amazing amount of logic in these critters.  3 full
    boards that are about 18x18 each.  One has the 68000, ROMs, RAMs and a
    SCSI interface, another has loads and loads of ROMs (sound blocks A-D),
    and the last board is all analog.  Add to this a 9x12 control panel, a
    300w power supply and an 8x4 board with all the output jacks and you
    have a K250.
    
    	I also bought an "Ensemble Grande", which is an 88 key wooden
    keyboard (looks like the same keyboard assembly as the K250/Midiboard),
    with some sort of built in SGU.  I don't know how good the sound is,
    but these sold for $7000 at one time.  I'm hoping its the K250 piano
    sample...  The manual claims there is a 190 watt amplifier inside.
    The sign on this unit said the drum section was broken (who cares...),
    and the left speaker crackels (blown power transistor hopefully).  It
    only cost $220, so if all I get out if it is an 88 key MIDI keyboard
    I'll be happy.
    
    
    
    

  As Eirikur mentioned, I also attended the auction, also my first.  There
  were definitely some deals to be had!  I think my mistake was being too
  anxious and I bidded earlier in the day instead of waiting towards the end.
  I was a little gutsie, I ended up buying 2 K1000SEs, 1 K1000SE EXT, 
  and 1 1000AX module, not realizing their condition until I was loading them 
  in my car.  (Actually ended up loading them into Andy Seigel's truck, thank
  god he was there, I couldn't even fit 1 keyboard in my Subaru!  Thank's Andy!)
  I paid about $1550 for everything - damn 10% buyer's commision,  2% credit 
  card fee, and 5% sales tax!!)

  Anyways, the 1000AX was opened, but had power cord/manual and appears to
  be working fine.  All the K1000's had notes attached to the boxes explaining
  what was wrong with each.  One them it said "rattle in front when keys are
  struck", turns out I couldn't even notice the rattle (maybe it was fixed?)
  so that was a perfectly good one, that came with 2 foot pedeals, manual,
  power cord, music stand and think warranty card.  I wasn't quite as lucky
  on the other two, not only didn't they come without ANY accessories but:

  The other K1000SE said "badly damaged left side, good for cannabilizing"
  Sure enuf, this thing looked like it was run over by a truck!  Smashed
  casing, cracked mod/pitch wheel encasing, 4 broken keys.  But... the broken
  keys were the botton-most contiguous, not a big deal so I have 72 keys instead
  of 76, the rest of the keys worked fine, the mod/pitch wheels still worked 
  and all the internals seemed to be fine.

  The 1000SE EXT said "flanging sound when notes are played.  Keyboard extremely
  inconsistent.  Must be played to understand problem."  This was right on the
  money too, which was a shame since this was the only EXTended one.  Even the
  MIDI didn't work, so it couldn't even be a controller and/or sound module.

  So this is what I did - first I swapped the two main boards.  This worked
  fine - now I had another perfectly working K1000SE in a perfectly fine
  enclosure.  Then, I pulled what I assumed were the chips that make an
  EXTended out of normal SE, off of the bad circuit board and put them in the
  other one, and voila!  It worked!  Now I have a perfectly good K1000SE and
  a perfectly good K1000SE EXT!  (and a piece of "junk", but hey, it still
  plays and everything, just no MIDI and the sounds are a little "flanged",
  and only 72 keys... good practice board for a kid or something)

  Actually, the symptoms of the bad board seem to point to some sort of MIDI
  feedback - that would explain the flanging (multiple notes being struck almost
  simultaneously) and the inconsistent keyboard which was more or less varying
  amounts of available polophony - and of course the messed up MIDI itself.
  So maybe there's hope in fixing this one two.

  All in all, I guess I made out all right, 3 out of 4 good working items. 
  I'm going to try to sell of the module and 1 of the good keyboards which
  will hopefully get most of my money back.  Then I'll still have the other
  good keyboard and messed up keyboard left over for myself!

-T

  

  Oh yeah, someone asked about the HP Vectra... they were going for $325.
  They said they actually had 500 of them available they would do for that
  price.  I was tempted on that, but I don't really have a use for one
  right now.

-T

    	Well, I picked up the "Ensemble Grande" tonight and after getting
    it home, I hooked it up while still in the back of my truck (too heavy
    to carry without help...).  Suprise of suprises, it seems to work
    perfectly.  The note on it said bad drum section and noisy speakers.
    
    	This is certainly an acousticly impressive package.  There are many
    speakers and lots of amplifier in the base.  It even sounds good in my
    garage.  It has audio inputs.  I may try running the output of my mixer
    into it and see what I get.  This may buy me some reverb I can't
    control though.  There is an audio out as well, but I haven't tried it
    yet to see if its dry.  It has midi in/out and the keyboard feels
    pretty good although there is a pretty good bounce at the bottom.  The
    velocity sensitivity seems much more real than my KX88 and various
    SGUs.
    
    	Tom, were the K1000s you bought, advertised as good???  It was
    pretty unclear to me, although I wish I had jumped on the pair of
    damaged K1200s that went for $200.  One had 5-6 crushed keys in the
    high octave, but was supposed to be electricaly good.  The other had
    good keys but was brain dead.  The auctioneer sold this one real quick
    before I could get my hands out of my pockets.
    

I spoke with David Fox of YCA.  He offerred a few interesting comments.  First
he says that Kurzweil never sold(shipped) a 1200AX.  It was planned but never
brought out.

He said that as imlied by the name, it is suppose to be a 1000AX-Plus with
the V5 OS.  Hmmm.  Mine does NOT has the V5 OS.

For those of you who also bought a 1200AX, can you tell me:

	o Does it have V5 or V1.9x?

	o Does it come with the same sounds as the 1000AX-Plus or
	  are there others?

Thanks,

	Jim

    Where does one check the version?  I haven't watched it boot closely,
    some other K. products display it when booting.
    
    	Eirikur
    

    I found it after some searching.  There's a version menu in there
    somewhere.  I forget the param number, I'm back at work (it's build
    night).
    
    My alleged 1200AX is actually at V1.93 of the O/S, and 4.10 of the
    setups.  Boo, hiss.
    
    	Eirikur
    
    

re: 285

To tell you the truth, I'm not sure how they were "advertised".  All I know
is I heard the bidding start for them and I jumped in.  As I mentioned in my 
note, I didn't realize they were damaged until I put them in my car.  Although
I should have guessed something was wrong with them for what they were going
for.  (I think I remember the bidding getting up to $600 for another K1000,
so maybe that was advertised "new condition")

I'm trying to debug the flaky board still, with the help of Eirikur.  I removed
the MIDI sockets but that didn't help.

Everything else seems to be working just fine though.   I really like some
of the sounds in the K1000, and some of the expression thru the mod wheel/
after touch.  I'm glad I got it.

-Tom

>    I found it after some searching.  There's a version menu in there
>    somewhere.  I forget the param number, I'm back at work (it's build
>    night).

If it's like the 1000PX, it'll be a parameter under the Master menu.

    	Does anyone have (or even know if it exists), the SYSEX
    implementation of the K250???  I did get one of the K250-RMX kits
    I bought at the Kurzweil auction up and running, but there isn't
    an XOR driver for the beast.  If I can figure out some of the SYSEX
    structure I might atleast be able to write a driver to select the
    factory patches.  Its unfortunately a little more complicated than
    just cramming program change messages down the wire since there are
    nearly 600 different patches.  I need to find a way to enter the
    patch number into the 128 entry program change list and then send
    the program change message.
    
    	The K250 does work just fine from the front panel, but its a real
    pain to have to use it manualy.  I'm suprised I don't see much XOR talk
    in this file.  I don't see how anyone with multiple SGUs can live
    without it.
    
    Brian